Comics Wizard #204 Spidey (BND) Debate Article

[Themanofbat]

The infamous man behind the curtian. Marvel comics inc....duh duh duh!!!! Joe's the only marvel officer I know was pushing for it. Whom else do you have at marvel inc pulling the strings TMOB?

Geezz Louise guys... do you honestly think that JQ OWNS Marvel Comics???

No... he doesn't. He's the Editor-In-Chief... which means that he has bosses... I don't know who they are, so I refer to them as "Marvel Comics Inc.".... But these people, the people who OWN Marvel, thus OWN Spider-Man, these are the ones that will either approve and/or disapprove any and all major changes to their flagship character.

And seeing as Marvel has wanted a single Spider-Man since 1993, it's pretty easy to surmise that it's the guys behind Marvel Comics Inc. that has wanted this change, and Joey Q had enough balls to pull it off for them.

Joey Q would not have been allowed to make such a radical change without approval from HIS bosses.

 

[farmernudie]

I am going to find out who all these old dudes are on the marvel board and then poll them as to whom in comic books is single and who is married.

I don't think the board spends ANY time discussing marital status of heroes in the comics.

They cover the big things and the financials and the broad going's on and such.

They are going to let the people they hire to run the day to day stuff and make the decisions.

Fact is, Joe has spent years clamoring on and on about his personal beliefs on marriage and stuff related to spidey.

He has never once metnioned anything about the "BOARD" or his "BOSSES" pressuring him to make spidey single.

I've read tons of articles on this for years, when people said Joe wouldn't make it THAT obvious and then go get rid of the marriage, tho he did.

So, i am not sold at all on this conspiracy theory to go blame the board and bigwigs of marvel, the shareholders, on making spidey single. I think they're clueless about it and don't care about who is what in the marvel universe unless they go bleey up and wonder what is causing bankruptcy.

Sure, i think Joe may have talked to some of his friends and other big name editors, as for their input.

But, i doubt the board knows muchabout any of the "events" in any of the comics, from my experience with boards, anyway.

 

[farmernudie]

I bet if I went up to board members secretly and individually, and asked WHO IS PETER PARKER MARRIED TO....many would say MJ, if they even knew at all a woman's name related to the the spidey world to even give me.

I should find out who these board guys are, do that, and secretly tape it, so i can play it on the internet. That'd be a hoot.

The board mandating "single spidey" just doesn't jive with the evidence that was laid before us in real time these past 2+ years, is all i am saying.

Possible, sure,...many things are.

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm just thinking that Marvel's BoD would have some final say when their flagship character is about to embark upon a major change such as this one.

I'm not convinced that JQ had neither the stones nor the right to make these changes without eitehr consent and/or approval.

 

[Styleshift]

Fact is, Joe has spent years clamoring on and on about his personal beliefs on marriage and stuff related to spidey.

I agree....with both of you guys.
Joe has even stated that while he was just a reader, he "knew" it was a big mistake for the 2 to be married off.

My personal belief is that the big wigs don't give a fart about anything except money and Joe found two good ol bull reasons to reboot him.

The first is the "longevity" the second is the "soap opera".
and he may have even shown charts that sales have been higher when Spidey was single. unfair? yes. true? yes.

IMO I believe the marriage added much to Spidey instead of taking away. Fans weren't screaming in out rage because of it...they were talking about the bad writing (mainly due to trying to get rid of the marriage hardly any fan complained about in the first place.)

Joephisto isn't all a bad guy though. truth is we don't know what is going on up there, but we do know he loves what he does, and I truly believe that most writers find themselves in a box, because they are given this married Spidey and don't know what to do with him. maybe the writers have been complaining to him about this?

I don't know....I do find some reasons for the reboot to be reasonable. but at the same time I think we can ultimately agree what burns the most is how they got themselves there.

to reach what has been thus so far a mediocre run with only a few stand out issues that were interesting. (dan slott and zeb wells should stay on this book.) Bob gale should go stand in a corner.

 

[kguillou]

Deep down inside i know Quesada did what he did because he was trying to improve the Spiderman comics and not because of some marriage hating personal agenda. I just dont think it was a good decision, i feel he could've found an alternative. But i usually dont like to hate on Quesada because under his regime, Marvel comics have been the best they've ever been for like the last 6 years. He's made many great editorial decisions with the marvel characters, but he's also made some bad ones, but i think the good he's done by far overcomes the bad.

 

[Styleshift]

Deep down inside i know Quesada did what he did because he was trying to improve the Spiderman comics and not because of some marriage hating personal agenda. I just dont think it was a good decision, i feel he could've found an alternative. But i usually dont like to hate on Quesada because under his regime, Marvel comics have been the best they've ever been for like the last 6 years. He's made many great editorial decisions with the marvel characters, but he's also made some bad ones, but i think the good he's done by far overcomes the bad.

Like The Essentials and Masterworks. I love them.

I just picked up Amazing spider-man vol. 1. last month, and I just got The X-men Vol. 2 this month.

Whether he has made a move that "destroyed" Spider-man, or made him "readable" again.

Quesada should still go down as the best EIC marvel has had.

 

[Styleshift]

On another note BND is not moving well. (at my local comic shop.)

NWTD has sold out....but BND before that is still plentiful in stock.

 

[Infidel]

On another note BND is not moving well. (at my local comic shop.)

NWTD has sold out....but BND before that is still plentiful in stock.

They should just do a monthly with Slott. He get's all the consistent positive buzz. I don't think too many people have given him flack.

 

[Styleshift]

They should just do a monthly with Slott. He get's all the consistent positive buzz. I don't think too many people have given him flack.

Oh he's gotten some flack. but only when he's being held back by the constraints of BND or when he does something story wise that reminds people of OMD.

So far from what I hear Zeb wells had the most successful run but he's only had 1 arc thus far.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Geezz Louise guys... do you honestly think that JQ OWNS Marvel Comics???

No... he doesn't. He's the Editor-In-Chief... which means that he has bosses... I don't know who they are, so I refer to them as "Marvel Comics Inc.".... But these people, the people who OWN Marvel, thus OWN Spider-Man, these are the ones that will either approve and/or disapprove any and all major changes to their flagship character.

And seeing as Marvel has wanted a single Spider-Man since 1993, it's pretty easy to surmise that it's the guys behind Marvel Comics Inc. that has wanted this change, and Joey Q had enough balls to pull it off for them.

Joey Q would not have been allowed to make such a radical change without approval from HIS bosses.

Ok, this is entirely conjecture unless you know something else. Joey Q is the EIC, so his bosses obviously think his judgement on things comic related is good and accurate. They let him do the smoking thing, and that I know was just his. You know blaming mysterious men behind curtians is very fashionable but the truth is joey Q is the only high up in Marvel that we know did not want the marriage and actively worked to have it undone. Going so far as to write the issue and alienate the current writer who didn't even want his name associated with that horrific story. Now I know comics has everyone thinking mysterious evil corporate boards are plotting against us, but for just the moment let's deal in facts. Fact Joey Q has a history of imposing his personal will on the MU. Fact Joey Q is the highest up Marvel executive we know wanted the marriage changed. Fact Joey Q wrote the issue dissolving the marriage over the vocal protests of the current writer. Now unless you can give me one shred this came from anything but Joe's mind, I can't buy into your conspiracy theories. I'm not saying he didn't get approval, but that's a far cry from his bosses mandating a change.

 

[Themanofbat]

Fact Joey Q wrote the issue dissolving the marriage over the vocal protests of the current writer.

All I'm going to say (because there is no real way of knowing unless we had an "inside man") is that the above fact is inaccurate.

JMS' protest were not because of the dissolvement of the marriage...

JMS was against the science behind the magic used. JMS wanted to reboot the series so that certain events that occured in ASM #96-98 had slightly changed, thus altering history; ie Norman never slept with Gwen, GG never killed Gwen, etc...

JQ didn't want 35 years of stories to be nullified, so they changed it so that they still counted.

So the "vocal protests" of JMS were not because he loved the marriage... he agreed to write it away. He just didn't like that "his" story got trashed.

 

[moraldeficiency]

All I'm going to say (because there is no real way of knowing unless we had an "inside man") is that the above fact is inaccurate.

JMS' protest were not because of the dissolvement of the marriage...

JMS was against the science behind the magic used. JMS wanted to reboot the series so that certain events that occured in ASM #96-98 had slightly changed, thus altering history; ie Norman never slept with Gwen, GG never killed Gwen, etc...

JQ didn't want 35 years of stories to be nullified, so they changed it so that they still counted.

So the "vocal protests" of JMS were not because he loved the marriage... he agreed to write it away. He just didn't like that "his" story got trashed.

Yes, you're right. He thought the story "dictated" to him was crap and didn't make sense. It didn't make sense for him to have Peter Parker ask the devil to fix all his problems. None of the current continuity makes sense to him either so he didn't want his name on it. I don't blame him, that might just come down as the worst comic ever written. JQ had a fixed agenda, he wrote the last issue. That's been said and done. And I should mention I"M NOT AGAINGST GETTING RID OF THE MARRIAGE, MY PROBLEM IS THE HORRIFIC WAY IT WAS DONE. I wouldn't have liked to see MJ go, I think the comic is worse without her, but I'd still be reading and buying right now if it was done in anyway that could vaguely resemble good writting or storytelling. I had to caps that because though I keep saying it, people don't seem to get it. I'm offended by the story making a personal hero of mine into a *****ebag loser with less moral or common sense than I would have after a crack smoking marathon.

Now you can't give me one name of anyone higher up in marvel that wanted the marriage dissolved, and Joey Q is the only vocal voice on the executive side, has a history of imposing personal beliefs into comics and wrote the issue. I don't know just how much evidence you need to convict someone (and I hope if I ever get caught on a crime you're in my jury, cause apparently a smoking gun and confession just isn't quite enough to convince you) but unless something new comes to light I have to say. This is Joey Q's agenda, it was certianly approved by higher ups, but it's also highly unpopular and has gotten a lot of negative feedback, this doesn't get done unless someone champions the idea and fights for it. That guy is Joey Q.

 

[Themanofbat]

Now you can't give me one name of anyone higher up in marvel that wanted the marriage dissolved, and Joey Q is the only vocal voice on the executive side, has a history of imposing personal beliefs into comics and wrote the issue. I don't know just how much evidence you need to convict someone (and I hope if I ever get caught on a crime you're in my jury, cause apparently a smoking gun and confession just isn't quite enough to convince you) but unless something new comes to light I have to say. This is Joey Q's agenda, it was certianly approved by higher ups, but it's also highly unpopular and has gotten a lot of negative feedback, this doesn't get done unless someone champions the idea and fights for it. That guy is Joey Q.

I'd convict ya... t:

One thing that is against you right now is that on a monthly average since the beginning, 2008 is averaging the highest monthly Spider-Man comic sales in over 10 years and is on pace to become the year with the highest number of Spider-Man books sold. So all those higher-ups and stockholders will look at these numbers and think it's great... though personally, the steady decline has me a tad worried, because let's face it, if they have to somehow retcon the retcon, the mess that would come out of it would leave myself and possibly even the anti-BND people with such a sour taste in their mouths that NOBODY will touch a Spdiey comic again... if how they dealt with the Clone Saga is any indication.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'd convict ya... t:

One thing that is against you right now is that on a monthly average since the beginning, 2008 is averaging the highest monthly Spider-Man comic sales in over 10 years and is on pace to become the year with the highest number of Spider-Man books sold. So all those higher-ups and stockholders will look at these numbers and think it's great... though personally, the steady decline has me a tad worried, because let's face it, if they have to somehow retcon the retcon, the mess that would come out of it would leave myself and possibly even the anti-BND people with such a sour taste in their mouths that NOBODY will touch a Spdiey comic again... if how they dealt with the Clone Saga is any indication.

Bastard.

Hey sales are good, a lot of bandwagoners jumped on board. That said, fan response hasn't been so good, which is no secret. If they had relaunched with something less idiotic than Peter Parker takes the easy way out by selling his marriage to satan to force his aunt to live against her will, this relaunch would have really taken off, IMHO. But the numbers are dropping, Spider-Man is no longer a flavor of the month and after this arc I think they're going to start have some problems.

While I wasn't a giant fan of the clone fix, they painted themselves into a wall and it was the best solution I could think of really, so I was ok with it. I remember seeing the night of the goblins at a pharmacy (this was after the clone saga had me off comics entirely) I flipped through it, then bought it. And I was back to being a Spider-Man reader and buyer again. Frankly there's no good solution to this mess, primarily because 545 was about the worst comic I've ever read. I'm sure the fix will be messy, and I don't really care if he's back with MJ, but there has to be reprecussions for his dealing with the devil. I can't even consider buying again until I think Peter Parker has the possiblity of being a hero again.

 

[Galactus]

I'd convict ya... t:

One thing that is against you right now is that on a monthly average since the beginning, 2008 is averaging the highest monthly Spider-Man comic sales in over 10 years and is on pace to become the year with the highest number of Spider-Man books sold. :

Since Amazing always been the best selling title I think it is kinda obvious that having Amazing three times a month would sell better than having three different titles.

 

[Styleshift]

thats how they are having the 3x a month charade.
they turned friendly neighborhood and sensational into amazing.

 

[Styleshift]

which is also why the stories don't feel as cohesive anymore.

 

[Themanofbat]

which is also why the stories don't feel as cohesive anymore.

I think they feel more cohesive...

Before, with the 3 seperate titles, you basically had three seperate stories, quite often one not mixing it with the others...

For example, if we are to read it lone, Back In Black starts off with Aunt May getting shot, and then Peter running off to find the Kingpin all the while keeping Aunt May in a hospital under a pseudonym... but in the other books, Peter is off in his Black Costume (when did he find the time?) and people actually apologize to him for his Aunt being in the hospital? wtf???

At least now, you get a better sense of storutelling continuity.... imo.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I think they feel more cohesive...

Before, with the 3 seperate titles, you basically had three seperate stories, quite often one not mixing it with the others...

For example, if we are to read it lone, Back In Black starts off with Aunt May getting shot, and then Peter running off to find the Kingpin all the while keeping Aunt May in a hospital under a pseudonym... but in the other books, Peter is off in his Black Costume (when did he find the time?) and people actually apologize to him for his Aunt being in the hospital? wtf???

At least now, you get a better sense of storutelling continuity.... imo.

I completely agree with this.

 

[Themanofbat]

I completely agree with this.

Thanks...

Maybe I wouldn't convict you... t: t: t:

 

[moraldeficiency]

Hey BND has some very good points. Excellent writers and art. The stories are quicker and have a better sense of flow by condensing the books into one. Wacker is one hell of an editor and Marvel couldn't have found a better one for the situation.

It's just a shame OMD is that spot of nasty herpes on the otherwise hot chick.

 

[Styleshift]

I think they feel more cohesive...

Before, with the 3 seperate titles, you basically had three seperate stories, quite often one not mixing it with the others...

For example, if we are to read it lone, Back In Black starts off with Aunt May getting shot, and then Peter running off to find the Kingpin all the while keeping Aunt May in a hospital under a pseudonym... but in the other books, Peter is off in his Black Costume (when did he find the time?) and people actually apologize to him for his Aunt being in the hospital? wtf???

At least now, you get a better sense of storutelling continuity.... imo.

I meant in regards to "amazing".

friendly neighborhood and sensational never had any major impact on ASM.
the only exception being scorpy-venom.

(ms. arrow/the other was never mentioned anywhere else)

Now your forced to pick up amazing 3x to keep up instead of just reading one book. it is sooooo obvious sales were raised by this plan its not even funny.

I think you missed my point when I said the stories don't feel as cohesive.
I meant the original amazing vs. 3x amazing.

each writer has their own style....so it just feels funky than if it were just slott on the book.

 

[imdaly]

I meant in regards to "amazing".

friendly neighborhood and sensational never had any major impact on ASM.
the only exception being scorpy-venom.

(ms. arrow/the other was never mentioned anywhere else)

That's actually one problem that I've always had about the multiple Spider-Man titles before (aside from title-crossover stories): What happened in one book may never be referenced in another. It sometimes would feel (like TMOB has pointed out in the "did-May-use-a-pseudonym-or-not?" conflict) that what happens in one book would either conflict with what happened in another book that month.

It was almost as if each book was it's own alternate timeline. Each month, I'd be reading three different storylines, and often I couldn't tell what order they were supposed to be happening in. When Spidey was going through the crisis of Sins Past in Amazing, he was also off fighting alongside Captain America in Spectacular, and in Marvel Knights he was getting his butt kicked by Electro. What happened when?

Now with doing away with the multiple titles and simply having the same title 3 times a month I don't have to ask myself that anymore. I can clearly see what order things are happening, and it actually seems like we're reading one cohesive timeline now instead of three separate ones (I'm ignoring Spidey's involvement in the Avengers stories right now, obviously )

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'm ignoring Spidey's involvement in the Avengers stories right now, obviously

That's a very smart move.