Wolverine and the X-Men: Episode 17: "Code of Conduct"

[Dread]

I feel some day Dread is going to reveal himself to actually be like John Byrne or Greg Weisman.

Wolverine shouldn't be held accountable for this because IT WASN'T HIS FAULT. Unless falling in love with a hot Japanese woman makes him guilty. Wolverine did what he thought was right even though he loved Mariko. He stayed awa from her. He didn't bring that on the X-men. The Yakuza brought it to them.

Is what happened to the mansion and Xavier the fault of the X-men and Xavier?

Please.

Bryne's past his prime, but I wouldn't mind being Weisman. I'll admit to being one of the two if you admit to being Craig Kyle

Most of my last post was nitpicking about the X-Men jobbing to ninjas in a fight, but whatever.

Wolverine could have sat down and briefed the X-Men on some of the threats to his past. Something Xavier never did and could have made their lives a lot easier, or at least a little less unpredictable. "Hey, look, there's some secret cabal of military people who gave me my bones, and some ninjas have a vendetta against me." Instead Logan did what he always does, keep all his secrets to himself, which worked when he was a loner, not the leader. Fortunately for him, not one member of the X-Men will address that. Xavier will just pat his back and say "Atta boy". Scott is too busy being a whimpering mess. Storm is a non-entity. And Frost usually only offers a wry quip. Rogue once tried to hold Logan responsible for his constant biker quests, but now that's over. If this is an "X-Men team with internal tension", I'd hate to imagine a cohesive unit.

In interviews with Brian M. Bendis, the writer of the latest Marvel event comic SECRET INVASION, he often described interested nuances and dynamics that he claimed were in the mini, but had little to do with his actual core event. It led some critics to wish that they could have "read the comic in his head" in so many words. Well, in some ways I am in the same position with this show. On the whole, it is a good show. But it is a frustrating one because that bar from "good" to "great" is so very close, but the writing staff just isn't on the ball right now. In interviews Kyle and Johnson describe dynamics or ideas that are barely passing details in the show they have actually written. I imagine WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN was more interesting and had better characterization in their heads than on screen.

Considering SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN by Greg Wiesman is an episode ahead of W&TXM (on episode 19 while W&TXM is gearing up for 18 this week), I didn't want to start comparing, but I may as well. There are two things that Wiesman's show has over this one. Dismissing, of course, the genre differences between Spider-Man and the X-Men, and Wiesman's superior TV experience. One is that SS-M is better able to shift the mood in the show; it can go from comedy to adventure to even creepy horror within moments. W&TXM is not very good at that; beyond some wisecracks now and again, it goes from serious to very serious to darkly serious. While that is part of the X-Men franchise, it hasn't been an angle that has helped it long term. The other difference is that subtle character nuances, characters reacting to each other with almost no line being throwaway, is essential in SS-M. In W&TXM, the plot is the main thing and characters are essentially along for the ride, beyond of course a focus episode now and again (or six times if you are the titular Wolverine). Characters are simple and blunt, with little nuance unless it is part of the plot.

This cartoon is essentially the opposite of X-MEN EVOLUTION; that show often had weak or mundane plots in most of it's episodes, at least until the end of Season 2 into Season 3, and relied almost exclusively on character interaction for a good, long while. Some of that was likely because the Kid's WB network people got in the way of things, such as the original game-plan for Spyke. With WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, it is almost as of Kyle and Johnson are so thrilled to have little restrictions on the kind of epic stories they want to do that they've all but gladly sacrificed a lot of the character stuff. The problem with that, of course, is that an adventure story is merely a video game without deep compelling characters. Look at FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH; that show pretty much literally relied most of it's strength on character interaction between the Four, and it actually worked for a bit to cover the fact that it had no central subplots nor was the action usually fulfilling.

Is WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN better than many cartoon shows on TV? Yes, without question. Is it better by episode 17 than X-MEN EVOLUTION was, as a whole? Sure, I'll give it that for now. The lack of the meddling Kid's WB has been a welcome change to things. But without managing to really nail down those nuances, without just a little more depth or complexity, W&TXM will have to settle for being Good rather than Great, and when Greatness is so, so close, that can be very frustrating for me as a fan. Those story subplots keep me watching, but very rarely is there any nuance to make me rewatch. Character cameo's are not nuance. A 2.5 minute scene where Logan would have to justify an action to Kitty and Storm's well minded objections would be worth a million Rockslide cameo appearances; part of what made, say, Captain Kirk so defining was that he did have to justify his sometimes seemingly reckless behavior to Bones or Spock. Deep down I believe Kyle & Johnson (and sometimes Yost, who has written a little for the show) know this, and I can only hope these matters start improving, and real fast.

My little sis watches those anime thingies which honestly bore me to death. And yes she does do that! Even I used to do that with cartoons when I was a kid Thank God I grew out of it. Pretty sure she will too.

But apparently guys don’t mature at all. My bro and cousins still rant on and on about this superhero being more powerful than that And now the writers and their man-love for Wolvie. They could’ve used poison! Or some virus to take down the X-men!

Oh and I ran into the online WATXM game on Marvel’s website and guess what the missions were? Rescue Cyclops, rescue Beast, rescue Shadowcat and Rogue and so on. I’m on level 8 right now

They thought knock out gas was good enough, even though they clearly showed nearly every X-Man unable to defend themselves against more than one ninja.

Heh, least the games are reflective.

I get that but haven't they done "stealth" missions in the previous episodes...i don't know...you guys seem to have better memory when it comes to info like this.

So my question is...why now? Why the stealth costumes now? I know this is a kids show but i would actually like to hear a throw away line or just a one-liner explaining the opting of the black costumes out of the blue...so to speak.

The stealth costumes first showed up in episode 16, "Badlands". As for why now, I don't know. Not mentioning those little things is just one of those things one has to deal with in this show. Maybe Logan had just thought of it.

A better question is why Logan sticks with his bright yellows when he goes on solo biker quests that likely require stealth, too.

They did make a point to mention how the ninjas were highly trained assassins. I mean, c'mon they're damned ninjas. If it wasn't for their blatant overuse as henchmen in cartoons (mainly ninja turtles) they'd be untouchable badasses.

Unfortunately, things like reality, such as the overuse of ninjas, HAVE to be taken into consideration.

Picture this example. Not all of the henchmen that are employed in Gotham City are lacking any fighting skills. Some of those guys must be good brawlers. I can imagine some even boxers or martial artists. Yet if a squad of no name goons burst into the Batcave and effortlessly defeated Batman, Robin, Alfred, and Batgirl, just so Nightwing could eventually come upon the scene and do a rescue, would any of that matter? Or would you just watch the TV and say, "Everyone got owned by nobodies"? It wouldn't matter if they were all trained by Batman's sensai or whatever; all that would matter in the reality was that everyone would be jobbing to Grayson. And no matter how great the episode was, it would be that little niggle that keeps it at A- rather than A+ grade. And sometimes those niggles bother me.

Seeping the gas into the ventilation system would have accomplished the same goal, and avoided the idea of the X-Men all losing en masse to worthless ninja. Ninja are canon fodder in anime, movies, comics, TV shows, and every single damn work of fiction known to mankind. Unless they are named characters, minions like them are sheep, and losing to sheep lessons your efficiency meter.

I think the point the writers are trying to make (and failing) with the X-Men constantly getting owned, is that they're still not what they once were. They don't have the teamwork they did before disbanding. Oh well.

You are right; that is what the show is intending, but without that nuanced character interaction that is mostly sacrificed for storyline and endless cameo appearances, that "disunity" of the X-Men is not apparent. The 90's X-MEN cartoon had Xavier as headmaster, Cyclops as leader and Wolverine as rebel, and that team was FAR more disunited than anything Kyle & Johnson have yet written here. So far, they have essentially written a show that, no matter how good it is, no matter how cool the main storyline may be, says that the X-Men are absolutely nothing without Wolverine. No one embodies the ideals more than him. None of the X-Men are as competent, or dangerous. Weapon X has the right idea; rather than recruit a dozen members, they just endlessly try to clone Wolverine. Same with Trask; make an army of robot Wolverine's. Wolverine is so awesome that he can make mistakes, or be reckless, or even have deadly enemies who come without warning, and everyone still loves him anyway. He's like Thing only without the sense of humor, or humility.

The only character on this show who comes close to upstaging Logan is Nightcrawler, which may be conveniently why Kurt is often missing in some of the episodes since rejoining. The writers obviously like him and would have had problems with showing him jobbing to Ninjas, so he magically wasn't shown.

I mean the premise really is sound; the irony is that in seeing the execution of it across 17 episodes, part of me kind of wishes it was actually handled better. It had potential for a cartoon. Instead there is always a feeling that they pull back or simplify for TV, when the best shows are the ones that throw caution to the wind. It takes risk to be timeless. The premise alone with Wolverine being the star attraction is NOT a risk for an X-Men cartoon; that is like saying a Dragon Ball series that focused on Goku exclusively was risky. It could have been deeper than it is, though, and it is frustrating for me that it isn't. These writers are more than capable.

The scene could have worked better if they would have had the ninjas stealthing up on each member individually and gassing them, without being noticed. Not giving the X-Men a chance to futilly fight back, making them look like chumps. Anyone can lose when you're blindsided, if you get owned face to face it's another story.

See? You, an unpaid novice, figured a way around that dilemma in a better manner than a paid professional who had maybe a week or two to write the episode. That says something to me. It says that there seems to always be some unseen invisible wall with this show, where the writers pull back and say, "okay, let's not go too far, this is for a mainstream audience." I am like, no, DON'T pull back. Take those risks!

 

[TheVileOne]

Wolverine is not responsible for not telling them about the Yakuza. He did nothing wrong and it wasn't his fault.

 

[Dread]

Wolverine is not responsible for not telling them about the Yakuza. He did nothing wrong and it wasn't his fault.

That wasn't even most of what I was talking about. You read all that and that was the only point you wanted to counter?

Logan at least felt responsible. Thankfully, Future X was able to buck his spirits with some kind words and a montage, "son".

 

[TheVileOne]

Logan felt responsible because he's a good, compassionate person of integrity.

 

[Dread]

Logan felt responsible because he's a good, compassionate person of integrity.

I got that. My only complaint with the episode, beyond Xavier clearly backing no other X-Horse, was why did Logan's character development have to come at the minor cost of making the other X-Men look inefficient? It was my only major niggle with the episode, but it seems every episode, even the good ones, always has one little thing holding it back.

 

[TheVileOne]

Dread, this is a pretty common storyline in animation and comics.

Like the X-men haven't been captured or incapacitated before with only one left to pick up the slack.

I really think you are over-exaggerating with these things. I bet you the majority of the audience doesn't agonize over these minor details.

 

[Cyma]

They thought knock out gas was good enough, even though they clearly showed nearly every X-Man unable to defend themselves against more than one ninja.

To me, X-men/ninja/knockout gas scene = Wolvie howling in pain after getting kicked in the shin by Shadowcat in Evo.

X23 taking the X-men out in Evo was more believable than this. Beast getting hurt by a stick as if Juggernaut punched him? Scott getting knocked out by a kick? Was the ninja laced with adamantium or something? As for Rogue, she absorbed the memories of about six ninjas and didn’t even get out of the way of the thingy Silver Samurai threw at Wolvie and her. She should’ve known by the memories that it carried knock-out gas.

Magneto, Sinister and other villains should just hire ninjas to get rid of the X-men. In fact, instead of creating Sentinels, ninjas should be created to get rid of mutantkind.

I got that. My only complaint with the episode, beyond Xavier clearly backing no other X-Horse, was why did Logan's character development have to come at the minor cost of making the other X-Men look inefficient?

Because if you want to look beautiful, stand close to an ugly-looking person. No ugly person around? Then pick one good-looking person close to you and disfigure his or her face. It’s quicker than spending time and money on yourself to look hot. So that’s why we have Wolverine and the Inefficient X-men

 

[echostation]

is the 18th episode out??? i couldn't find if it has aired

 

[Dread]

Dread, this is a pretty common storyline in animation and comics.

Like the X-men haven't been captured or incapacitated before with only one left to pick up the slack.

I really think you are over-exaggerating with these things. I bet you the majority of the audience doesn't agonize over these minor details.

Yes, it is "common". And that is the problem. You can't move from good to great by being "common" sometimes.

I'm sure not everyone "agonizes over minor detail" like I do. I've read some of the online reviews for this episode here and at Toonzone and the consensus seems to be that non-Wolverine fans found this episode filler and pointless. I wouldn't go that far, as I liked the episode overall. I hoped to see a decent animated version of Silver Samurai, and Mariko, and some of that past in Japan with Logan, and I got all that. The action was even decent. It just would have been better without once again going out of their way to showcase how superior Wolverine is when compared to his entire team. The writers have done that sometimes and ironically, or not, those scenes are always awkward.

I can't think of anyone but you, so far, who saw that last scene in episode 12 where Logan, in so many words, gives Cyclops a tongue lashing for something he himself does and always had, who thought it was appropriate. Many people found that scene as the one downside to a great episode. I think the writers sometimes try too hard to oversell Wolverine and they don't have to. It's like overselling Batman.

I will say this; if Greg Wiesman were involved in this show, all those dynamics in the premise that were hinted at would be clear as day, there would be more character nuance, and we wouldn't have to consider a scene where Logan sort of starts to relate to Scott's burden as leader as "possible". It would be EXPECTED. Period.

To me, X-men/ninja/knockout gas scene = Wolvie howling in pain after getting kicked in the shin by Shadowcat in Evo.

X23 taking the X-men out in Evo was more believable than this. Beast getting hurt by a stick as if Juggernaut punched him? Scott getting knocked out by a kick? Was the ninja laced with adamantium or something? As for Rogue, she absorbed the memories of about six ninjas and didn’t even get out of the way of the thingy Silver Samurai threw at Wolvie and her. She should’ve known by the memories that it carried knock-out gas.

Magneto, Sinister and other villains should just hire ninjas to get rid of the X-men. In fact, instead of creating Sentinels, ninjas should be created to get rid of mutantkind.



Because if you want to look beautiful, stand close to an ugly-looking person. No ugly person around? Then pick one good-looking person close to you and disfigure his or her face. It’s quicker than spending time and money on yourself to look hot. So that’s why we have Wolverine and the Inefficient X-men

Ugh, don't remind me of that scene with Kitty and Logan in "Mindbender". Season 2. It was painful. TheVileOne considers it "street justice" that in Evolution, Logan often jobbed to nearly everything, and now in W&TXM, every one else jobs for Wolverine, but my point is that NEITHER were good. I HATED, absolutely hated, how often Wolverine got his rear spanked in EVOLUTION. It got on my nerves. It got to the point where I could rarely take him seriously as dangerous. That is a problem with Wolverine. Now, that situation is reversed; Wolverine is awesome, it's the other X-Men who all but fall over themselves when he isn't there to lead them. All they serve to do is aid Wolverine when he is outnumbered or distract an enemy for him, or to allow him to prevail even when he happens to lose a fight.

I agree that the episode could have found a way around pwning the X-Men, and even around ensuring that Rogue got captured like a damsel for the second time in 22 minutes. At least she got in some good moves beforehand.

I made a comment about those ninjas in my review. Why is Trask bothering with Sentinels? Just hire out squads of ninjas and that's it.

Power levels in comics, and sometimes cartoons, sadly, don't matter as much as popularity. That is why Wolverine couldn't DARE be decisively beaten in HULK VS.; he had to get it to a draw. Thor, who isn't as popular as Hulk, of course, is free to be beaten within an inch of his life every time he faces Hulk. Now, I liked HULK VS. very, very much. But that popularity influencing the fight outcome was clear as day. But that happens in the comics, too. When Spider-Man was clearly more popular than Wolverine during SECRET WARS, he literally dispatched him with a BACKHAND SLAP. But when Logan started becoming more popular into the mid 80's into the 90's, suddenly Spider-Man could never fight him beyond to a draw. Hell, Spider-Man beat the entire X-Men in SECRET WARS; barely 7 years later, you could never imagine that happening again. And while I am aware of that and I can dismiss it at times, it does get annoying.

is the 18th episode out??? i couldn't find if it has aired

The 18th episode should be airing over the weekend. It was pre-empted in Canada for Valentine's Day programs.

 

[TheVileOne]

My opinion is that you nitpick and over-exaggerate many of these storyline aspects.

Also, Toonzone and SHH are not the be all end all consensus and talkback of this series.

 

[Dread]

Truly excellent works can stand up to my nitpicks and over-exaggerations. Ones that seem to just stop at "good, occasionally very good" can't.

And true that Toonzone and SHH aren't all representative. Ratings wise, the show is very popular. But that's Wolverine for you.

 

[Ratcrawler]

What's a niggle?

 

[Dread]

What's a niggle?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/niggle

 

[bryanss3]

I figured out why I'm not enjoying most of this show. its not the fact that Wolverine is the leader of the X-men. its not the characters animation style. its the aimless adventure-ness of it. It seems like most of the episodes don't build off each other and the villains are scattered and some seem like they appear just to let us know they're there like Mr. Sinister. its like we have to stop the MRD, we have to stop the Brotherhood, Magneto, oh we're attacked by ninjas and the Silver Samuria +others. it doesn't seem like they're doing anything that even effects them since their goal is to alter the future... isn't that Bishop's job. like this episode seriously is unneeded to make the over all story of the first season neither are almost all of the Wolverine solo episodes. They're just trying to do to much at once. I'm sure I'd enjoy it more if there were more 2/3 part episodes anything that just makes it seem like a continuing story instead of a bunch of stand alone episodes that can be played in any order between 2 or 3 specific episodes. Also I hate the whole idea of Professor X in the future communicating with the past to change the future. it's so lame. It seems like a storyline that'll show up in the next season of Heroes.

from what I've read about the future Episodes 18-26(the rest of the season) it looks like everything thats going to happen in these episodes actually effects the next one. can't wait for episode 18 to air so someone can post it online for me to watch.

 

[Dread]

On this criticism I think I will disagree. Most of the 17 episodes so far have worked in a serial format. It isn't as tight as SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN but most episodes are clearly written to occur after others. There are subplots that have been carried across several episodes. Honestly the only episodes that don't fit in any way in terms of a character subplot and/or a storyline arc are "WOLVERINE VS. THE HULK" and probably this episode, "CODE OF CONDUCT". Even "THIEVE'S GAMBIT" proved to matter later on. Nightcrawler's episodes all served to build up the Brotherhood plot.

I do agree there is at times a sense of a lot happening, but I see this season as building towards two conflicts with the X-Men; a showdown with Magneto and the Brotherhood, and a showdown with the MRD/Sentinels. Future Xavier of course is in a world run by Master Mold so the Sentinels are the bigger threat, as the Brotherhood will unite with the X-Men to combat them. Even without any spoilers, that alliance is easy to figure. Weapon X has popped up twice and it wouldn't be hard to link them into the MRD stuff.

There is of course the loss of Jean and how that will play into the finale. Jean Grey only ever has one character arc, and it is also is easy to figure. What is the one thing Jean Grey has beyond "token female" with the X-Men? The one story rehashed to death? Yeah, that one is likely happening.

The X-Men have always had a lot happening at once, so I don't mind it too much; it helps keep the suspense level up and the situations tense because you never know which of the two eggs will drop first. The downside is, as you said, those occasions when the main plot does take a back seat to Wolverine having an adventure. Even if in episode 17's case, I really did want to see Mariko and Silver Samurai done decently.

While I wish there was more resolution in terms of character interactions, with bigger plots and subplots, there usually has been a reaction or sequel in another episode. I would be surprised if Mr. Sinister didn't return, for instance.

 

[bryanss3]

I think I feel this way cause I want this to be like the last Season of JLU. Maybe I've just been spoiled and now I try to compare it to something its not. I probably egsagerated the thing about out of place episodes but there are some. what I meant is from what I've read from the plot synopsis on wikipedia for future episodes (that are way to informative on episodes that haven't aired yet BTW) I just meant they don't seem to build off each other in the way episode 18-26 seem like they will. don't get me wrong I enjoy this show, but certain episodes are just hit and miss for me. and yes Mr. Sinister does return in a future episode. I wish he had a different voice actor not that Clancy Brown isn't good he was a great Lex Luthor he just doesn't sound like Sinister to me.

 

[Dread]

The LAST season of JLU? Really? Because that final season with the Legion of Doom had quite a few episodes that didn't connect to the main plot and came out of no where, and that season wasn't as serial as this show has been. Now the Camdus Arc was a bit more serial. The LOD stuff on JLU until the last few episodes was almost like a running theme.

Also, and while it is hard to do, comparing every show to JLU isn't always fair. JLU was literally the culmination of an animated universe and continuity built up from Batman and expanding to Superman and finally a Justice League and then beyond over some 12 years helmed by a stable team of writers, editors, and producers. While Kyle, Johnson, and Yost have written a great score of Marvel animated projects since the end of the 90's, they haven't been able to build anything like that now.

An easy example, personally, is FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES, the first TV series after EVOLUTION that Kyle and Yost had a lot of collaboration and control of. It debuted in 2006, just as JLU was ending and I hated it. CN aired episodes in terrible order, but I never gave it a chance because it was nothing like JLU. But after some time Toonzone reviewed it and basically said, "don't compare it to JLU, it isn't trying. See it on it's own terms and embrace it more as a comedy than a strict action show", and I bought the box set two years later, and Toonzone was right. As a superhero comedy show with some adventure, it's very entertaining. While no great classic, it isn't nearly as bad as I thought from that first impression.

The X-Men are not the same as JLU either, and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN certainly isn't. Kyle, Johnson and Yost don't have some 12+ years of experience with this universe as Timm & Co. had or that skill with a large cast. Even JLU needed one season to find it's feet again after getting used to a cast of 4-7 characters in 44 minute 2 part episodes back to a larger one across 20 minute episodes. Team shows are not easy.

I think this season of W&TXM is more serial then a great number of JL stuff. It's no SS-M, though, and it seems to always pull short of that level of greatness. Greg Wiesman, the guy behind GARGOYLES, also has quite a lot of experience behind him.

It will be easier to see how the episodes build off of each other once the season is finished. While there have been a couple of "random" adventures and some tidbits or potentially interesting subplots or dynamics that the creative team has completely missed the boat on depicting, I will say on the whole the narrative is serial and serious, even if on the verge of too serious. Where the writers usually struggle, ironically, are episodes without most of the X-Men or in those scenes where they deliberately try to make Wolverine superior to all of them that almost scream of trying too hard. When they allow the characters to almost write themselves, it usually is better.

While Clancy Brown may not be as strong as Mr. Sinister as he was in, say, his roles as Rhino & Capt. George Stacy in SS-M, and while I prefer Christopher Britton in the role from the 90's, I thought he was a fine Sinister.

 

[bryanss3]

The LAST season of JLU? Really? Because that final season with the Legion of Doom had quite a few episodes that didn't connect to the main plot and came out of no where, and that season wasn't as serial as this show has been. Now the Camdus Arc was a bit more serial. The LOD stuff on JLU until the last few episodes was almost like a running theme.

Ok you are right about that last season I forgot certain episodes like the Flash Rogues episode ect. but that said those random episodes were really good.

An easy example, personally, is FANTASTIC FOUR: WORLD'S GREATEST HEROES, the first TV series after EVOLUTION that Kyle and Yost had a lot of collaboration and control of. It debuted in 2006, just as JLU was ending and I hated it. CN aired episodes in terrible order, but I never gave it a chance because it was nothing like JLU. But after some time Toonzone reviewed it and basically said, "don't compare it to JLU, it isn't trying. See it on it's own terms and embrace it more as a comedy than a strict action show", and I bought the box set two years later, and Toonzone was right. As a superhero comedy show with some adventure, it's very entertaining. While no great classic, it isn't nearly as bad as I thought from that first impression.

that Fantastic Four cartoon isn't great but it is really funny in some parts. I hate the whole look of it though.

It will be easier to see how the episodes build off of each other once the season is finished. While there have been a couple of "random" adventures and some tidbits or potentially interesting subplots or dynamics that the creative team has completely missed the boat on depicting, I will say on the whole the narrative is serial and serious, even if on the verge of too serious. Where the writers usually struggle, ironically, are episodes without most of the X-Men or in those scenes where they deliberately try to make Wolverine superior to all of them that almost scream of trying too hard. When they allow the characters to almost write themselves, it usually is better.

I agree this is just my opinion now though when the whole season plays out it might be different.
hopefully one Marvel will have their own animated universe. that would be great.

While Clancy Brown may not be as strong as Mr. Sinister as he was in, say, his roles as Rhino & Capt. George Stacy in SS-M, and while I prefer Christopher Britton in the role from the 90's, I thought he was a fine Sinister.

Its not that I think he's bad he just sounds too much like Lex Luthor to me.

 

[Dread]

Ok you are right about that last season I forgot certain episodes like the Flash Rogues episode ect. but that said those random episodes were really good.

Yeah. I never said some of those episodes weren't good (although "Journey to the Earth's Core" I think with Warlock, which was a canon episode, was a bit generic). But that entire season wasn't "serial", especially across 13 or so episodes.

that Fantastic Four cartoon isn't great but it is really funny in some parts. I hate the whole look of it though.

Some of the designs were hit or miss. The animation quality was pretty good, although the action pacing and storyboarding were often mediocre at best. The show's assets were the interaction between the Four, which usually was hilarious. Once the show's writers realized that and comedy were their strengths about 10 episodes in, things got better.

I agree this is just my opinion now though when the whole season plays out it might be different.
hopefully one Marvel will have their own animated universe. that would be great.

It would be interesting if they could pull it off.

Its not that I think he's bad he just sounds too much like Lex Luthor to me.

True, I just thought it was a fitting voice for Sinister, who always sounded powerful.