BvS Wonder Woman v Superman

[KillerWolf]

Faora was holding her own for a bit. WW should be able to do better than her, but not stronger than Supes, just a better fighter in general.

Agreed.

 

[souperman]

Agreed with everything, except the part about technology. Sure, New 52 Themyscira does look visually more bland than previous depictions, but I find that Paradise Island should be completely devoid of technology.

Amazons should be a society that is in tune with nature. Prevailingly militaristic, but to an extent also a spiritual society. Kind of like warrior monks from some Buddhist temples. I see nothing interesting in yet another technologically advanced city.

To paraphrase a great poet: Was Themyscira builded here, among these dark satanic mills?

...maybe paradise island will be like the Ba'ku in Star Trek insurrection. A very advanced civilization that " chooses " not to use their advanced technology and hide away... Until Diana needs the plane!

I would hate if WW can fly like SM. maybe leap far, but not fly.

As for fighting ability... SM is a fast learner. That's how he beat Faora. The magic may get him for a while but he would ultimately win.
...and besides, they are buddies. ; )

 

[souperman]

Agreed with everything, except the part about technology. Sure, New 52 Themyscira does look visually more bland than previous depictions, but I find that Paradise Island should be completely devoid of technology.

Amazons should be a society that is in tune with nature. Prevailingly militaristic, but to an extent also a spiritual society. Kind of like warrior monks from some Buddhist temples. I see nothing interesting in yet another technologically advanced city.

To paraphrase a great poet: Was Themyscira builded here, among these dark satanic mills?

...maybe paradise island will be like the Ba'ku in Star Trek insurrection. A very advanced civilization that " chooses " not to use it... Until Diana needs the plane!

I would hate if WW can fly like SM. maybe leap far, but not fly.

 

[Mad Love]

I got it...you have an inability to actually pay attention to details...how else can someone explain why you'd assume WW was equal to Superman when Superman was able hold his own against Mongul and hurt him, while WW got no successful offense in?

Your interpretation of one issue doesn't define anything. You're making tedious and immature responses so bye, ignored.

That is another reason why I think she should be somewhat weaker than Superman, beside the fact that I believe that Superman should be the most powerful superhero in this universe.

This way, her training and weaponry should easily put her to his level, but if she were on the same level power-wise as him, when you add those magical items and military prowess, she would turn up to be more powerful.

If you believe that Superman should be the most powerful, then that's your preference, but it doesn't really answer why it should be that way. Some creators think Wonder Woman should be more powerful. Superman is traditionally stronger than Wonder Woman but not dramatically. They are still in the same tier and both have means to increase their strength.

Some people don't like the idea of Wonder Woman being able to beat Superman for whatever reason but a strong case could be made for it, ignoring it already happened. It's just safer to say they are generally equal. No way does Superman beat Wonder Woman all the time. If anything, the more they fight the better Wonder Woman will be able to adapt because it's more in her nature.

 

[The Batman]

Your interpretation of one issue doesn't define anything. You're making tedious and immature responses so bye, ignored.

Translation: I am blindly biased toward Wonder Woman and therefore am unable to accept the facts of "For the Man Who Has Everything". As I can't actually dispute what you've said Batman, I must save face by putting you on ignore.

 

[KillerWolf]

...maybe paradise island will be like the Ba'ku in Star Trek insurrection. A very advanced civilization that " chooses " not to use their advanced technology and hide away... Until Diana needs the plane!

This would actually be an interesting approach. It's a middle ground between the two, and I like it.

I would hate if WW can fly like SM. maybe leap far, but not fly.

Yeah, I'm not partial to her flying too.

As for fighting ability... SM is a fast learner. That's how he beat Faora. The magic may get him for a while but he would ultimately win.
...and besides, they are buddies. ; )

I'd say that it depends. Both can be victorious depending on the course of the fight, I believe.

If you believe that Superman should be the most powerful, then that's your preference, but it doesn't really answer why it should be that way. Some creators think Wonder Woman should be more powerful.

True, though it's not just the matter of my personal preference. When initially created, Superman was imagined as the ultimate superhero and most powerful being on Earth and has been more often than not depicted as such through the years.

Superman is traditionally stronger than Wonder Woman but not dramatically. They are still in the same tier and both have means to increase their strength.

That's all I was talking about.

As I said, when Wonder Woman's magical weapons get into play, she should be completely leveled with him and even hold a slight advantage.

Some people don't like the idea of Wonder Woman being able to beat Superman for whatever reason but a strong case could be made for it, ignoring it already happened. It's just safer to say they are generally equal. No way does Superman beat Wonder Woman all the time. If anything, the more they fight the better Wonder Woman will be able to adapt because it's more in her nature.

I am not one of those people though. I like Wonder Woman to be as tough as possible, it's just that I prefer her to be powerful in a somewhat different way than Superman.
Less sheer power and more a combination of power, years of training as a warrior and, to an extent, her weaponry. It actually makes her more badass in my book.

And sure thing, it can go both ways in fight. Hell, if Batman turns up to be able to beat Superman in this film (or at least come close to it), it would be absolutely ridiculous to claim that Wonder Woman cannot do the same.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Translation: I am blindly biased toward Wonder Woman and therefore am unable to accept the facts of "For the Man Who Has Everything". As I can't actually dispute what you've said Batman, I must save face by putting you on ignore.

"For the Man Who Has Everything" was written as a pre-Crisis story, and in that continuity Wonder Woman was always weaker than Superman. However, in both the post-Crisis and New 52 canons, her power levels are closer to Clark's. It is unlikely that the fight between her and Mongul would play out the same way if it has been written in either of the latter two reboots.

In fact, that episode of JLU was pretty weird. DCAU Diana seemed to be as strong as post-Crisis Wonder Woman, so her suddenly being too weak to fight Mongul in that episode doesn't make much sense.

I've never had a problem with Wonder Woman being weaker than Superman. But even I have to admit that Alan Moore made that fight between her and Mongul way too one sided. I'm glad the writers of the episode at least let her put the parasite on him instead of Robin.

 

[The Batman]

"For the Man Who Has Everything" was written as a pre-Crisis story, and in that continuity Wonder Woman was always weaker than Superman. However, in both the post-Crisis and New 52 canons, her power levels are closer to Clark's. It is unlikely that the fight between her and Mongul would play out the same way if it has been written in either of the latter two reboots.

Post Crisis Mongul seemed to be weaker than his pre crisis self, even being beaten by Wally West, so Post Crisis Wonder Woman would probably beat him in a fight. Post Crisis Wonder Woman vs Pre Crisis Mongul however? She'd get more offense in for sure.

Either way, acting like the Superman and WW in FTMWHE were equals in terms of power reeks of delusional bias.

In fact, that episode of JLU was pretty weird. DCAU Diana seemed to be as strong as post-Crisis Wonder Woman, so her suddenly being too weak to fight Mongul in that episode doesn't make much sense.

I don't think it was weird at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure WW put up more a fight in that episode than in the comic. Power levels fluctuated all the time on that show. It wasn't just WW who was only as strong as the story demanded.

I've never had a problem with Wonder Woman being weaker than Superman. But even I have to admit that Alan Moore made that fight between her and Mongul way too one sided. I'm glad the writers of the episode at least let her put the parasite on him instead of Robin.

I liked that WW put up more of a fight in the cartoon version, but either way, the outcome should always be the same, IMO. Mongul in that story was a perfect way to highlight how powerful Superman is compared to his peers.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Post Crisis Mongul seemed to be weaker than his pre crisis self, even being beaten by Wally West, so Post Crisis Wonder Woman would probably beat him in a fight. Post Crisis Wonder Woman vs Pre Crisis Mongul however? She'd get more offense in for sure.

Either way, acting like the Superman and WW in FTMWHE were equals in terms of power reeks of delusional bias.



I don't think it was weird at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure WW put up more a fight in that episode than in the comic. Power levels fluctuated all the time on that show. It wasn't just WW who was only as strong as the story demanded.

I liked that WW put up more of a fight in the cartoon version, but either way, the outcome should always be the same, IMO. Mongul in that story was a perfect way to highlight how powerful Superman is compared to his peers.

Ok, I didn't really know post-Crisis Mongul was weaker, though I guess that makes sense considering post-Crisis Superman was also weaker. Durr. Mongul's never been a character I've been all too invested in anyway, so I'm not up to date on his stats.

I think in general, Wonder Woman is kind of an odd case in terms of increased power levels. Superman started out relatively low level in terms of power, but he quickly attained God-like status around the 40s/50s, and that in turn translated into other media. Wonder Woman, on the other hand, didn't gain consistent flight and increased strength until the 80s, and by that point, the Lynda Carter show and Superfriends had already long since planted the idea of her not being Superman-level strong in the public consciousness. She had the Invisible Plane in both shows, couldn't fly, etc. and that's what people think of when they see her.

Not a problem for me. I don't think she has to be his exact match in terms of strength in order to be his equal. Giving them too similar powers is only gonna increase her reputation as being the female Superman, and she doesn't need that.

Agreed with everything, except the part about technology. Sure, New 52 Themyscira does look visually more bland than previous depictions, but I find that Paradise Island should be completely devoid of technology.

Amazons should be a society that is in tune with nature. Prevailingly militaristic, but to an extent also a spiritual society. Kind of like warrior monks from some Buddhist temples. I see nothing interesting in yet another technologically advanced city.

To paraphrase a great poet: Was Themyscira builded here, among these dark satanic mills?

To each his own, I guess. I miss the Amazons having a wide range of occupations. There's too much emphasis on the warrior aspect these days instead of having the Amazons be scientists, doctors, poets, philosophers, architects, play wrights, mystics, etc. It sends the message that the women can't really be innovative on their own. In contrast, the DC universe has a society of technologically advanced gorillas and nobody bats an eye. Ditto the Atlanteans.

 

[KillerWolf]

To each his own, I guess. I miss the Amazons having a wide range of occupations. There's too much emphasis on the warrior aspect these days instead of having the Amazons be scientists, doctors, poets, philosophers, architects, play wrights, mystics, etc. It sends the message that the women can't really be innovative on their own. In contrast, the DC universe has a society of technologically advanced gorillas and nobody bats an eye. Ditto the Atlanteans.

I agree on wide range of occupations, they should be all those things. Themyscira should be more similar to Athena than Sparta.

I just think that there shouldn't be a technological advancement similar to the one we know. For a secluded society like theirs is, it kind of makes sense anyway.

 

[Mz. Hyde]

Just joined Hype (I'm pretty excited).

In my opinion, Wonder Woman's powers in BvS should depend on the direction they go with for her solo movie.

For example, if it's heavy on Greek mythology I would be okay with her not being able to fly in BvS, because they can include a scene which shows Hermes giving her flight, like Azzarello did in his run. Similarly, if they do the whole "God Mode" thing then I could imagine her being weaker than Superman in her regular state but stronger than him when the bracelets come off. Otherwise I think (as others have said) Superman should be physically stronger but Wonder Woman's years of training bridge the gap in strength, and both should be able to fly.

What I don't want is for my favourite superhero to be depowered just so Superman can be ridiculously strong compared to everyone else. Superman has enough extra powers as is, in my opinion.

 

[The Slang]

I think Wonder Woman's strength should be as close to Superman's as Gal Gadot's strength is to Henry Cavil's. Their speed can be about the same, with both of them being slower than the Flash and with Wonder Woman being the superior fighter.

 

[Mad Love]

Man should be stronger than woman. Most people have an outdated vision of WW or don't realize what WW is suppose to represent.

 

[Juha Bach]

The only JL character who should be on the same tier as superman in DCU is Martian Manhunter. Wonder woman like zod and faora has the superior fighting skills but this superman has an unbelievable amount of raw power combined with an unbreakable will.

 

[Dr.]

WW herself is magic, her armor is magic, and her weapons are magic. Her sword is a magic, vorpal blade. One stab can put down Superman.

I’m not really a fan of overtly “magical” superheroes. And I think they’re especially problematic when they crossover and interact with non-magical ones - because then you end up with a bunch of arbitrary (and often inconsistent) “rules” about which type of power can override the other.

Originally and traditionally, WW was a “physical” hero, endowed with superior strength and skills, etc. So her mythological/magical background was simply a pretext to “explain” those abilities - much like how Krypton and a yellow sun “explains” Superman. (The famous “truth serum” lasso being the only conspicuous concession towards the magical.)

And imo, the addition of swords and spears and shields (with explicitly mystical and omnipotent properties) overcomplicates and over-enhances a character who is already very impressive.

More generally… the whole notion of good guys fighting each other has become an overused (and uninspired) trope. A dustup between Supes and Bats is all but certain in the upcoming movie; and I don’t especially need to see a “vs.” with WW too.

 

[Mad Love]

Originally and traditionally, WW was a “physical” hero, endowed with superior strength and skills, etc. So her mythological/magical background was simply a pretext to “explain” those abilities - much like how Krypton and a yellow sun “explains” Superman. (The famous “truth serum” lasso being the only conspicuous concession towards the magical.)

What's a physical hero? Pre-crisis and post-crisis she has had non-physical powers.

It's more than a pretext to explain powers. Her mythos and origin is steeped with magic since her conception. Aside from being magically animated from clay, her powers were given by gods that were qualities of gods. Is Shazam also a physical character? Is Wonder Woman less magical than Shazam?

 

[Mad Love]

http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/1yltns/respect_wonder_woman/

 

[KillerWolf]

I’m not really a fan of overtly “magical” superheroes. And I think they’re especially problematic when they crossover and interact with non-magical ones - because then you end up with a bunch of arbitrary (and often inconsistent) “rules” about which type of power can override the other.

I don't think it should be that complicated. Basically, she has conventional-looking weapons that can hurt metahumans. Explanation being:

As simple as that.

As for the two fighting each other, I agree, but I believe that we mostly discuss that here to deduce how much powerful Wonder Woman should be in comparison and not because we want to actually see her fight Superman.

 

[Shinobi]

Anyone who reads comics knows very well that the strongest character is whoever the writers want him to be. In varies from story to story.

 

[KillerWolf]

Sure thing, mate, but it should be specified in the movie universe. Snyder had a whole list of things that could hurt Superman when he was making MOS.