WonderCon: The Ruckaning

[hippie_hunter]

That does sound pretty good and much better than how the couple came together in the comics. But we should bear in mind that David probably didn't know how long he had on the title. Marvel have been lousy about cancelling series lately. Look at Exiles and SWORD. Both got less than 8 issues before the axe came down. Maybe he was just worried about te series being cancelled before he could tell the story he wanted to tell and so rushed it through

Taking the long view and building stories up over time may be better from a narrative perpective but it can lead to problems if something happens to disrupt the story flow. Look at Greg Rucka and Gail Simone on Wonder Woman. Both had long term plans that were ruined by outside forces. The result was loose ends aplenty and wasted potential

Very true

Well, sometimes when a story is really that bad all you can do is ignore it. Like Amazons Attack. Or Countdown

Crappy stories shouldn't just simply be ignored unless a full on reboot occurs. They need to be dealt with, retconned or find some way to be pushed aside, and then have the character to move forward.

Like what J.T. Krul did with Connor Hawke, he used Blackest Night to push aside that ******** of him being a useless amnesiac

Or how Sterling Gates had the crappily written Prometheus retconned into being an imposter.

 

[Mystirious]

Very true

Not that I'm bitter about all those cancelled series and lost plots or anything. Not at all

Crappy stories shouldn't just simply be ignored unless a full on reboot occurs. They need to be dealt with, retconned or find some way to be pushed aside, and then have the character to move forward.

Like what J.T. Krul did with Connor Hawke, he used Blackest Night to push aside that ******** of him being a useless amnesiac

Or how Sterling Gates had the crappily written Prometheus retconned into being an imposter.

Though Sterling Gates retcon just paved the way for an even worse story to be told with Prometheus so that kind of backfired

 

[hippie_hunter]

Though Sterling Gates retcon just paved the way for an even worse story to be told with Prometheus so that kind of backfired

But Prometheus wasn't the problem with Cry for Justice. As a villain, he was pretty damn good.

Bad writing is 100% the reason why Cry for Justice sucked plain and simple. It had nothing to do with Prometheus.

That said, it is 100x better than the joke that he was in Lieberman's Gotham Knights run.

 

[NightBeetle]

That said, it is 100x better than the joke that he was in Lieberman's Gotham Knights run.

What happen in Lieberman's Gotham Knights run?

 

[Mystirious]

But Prometheus wasn't the problem with Cry for Justice. As a villain, he was pretty damn good.

Bad writing is 100% the reason why Cry for Justice sucked plain and simple. It had nothing to do with Prometheus.

That said, it is 100x better than the joke that he was in Lieberman's Gotham Knights run.

True. Those issues really were appalling.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Very true


Crappy stories shouldn't just simply be ignored unless a full on reboot occurs. They need to be dealt with, retconned or find some way to be pushed aside, and then have the character to move forward.

Like what J.T. Krul did with Connor Hawke, he used Blackest Night to push aside that ******** of him being a useless amnesiac

Or how Sterling Gates had the crappily written Prometheus retconned into being an imposter.

Pretty much the only explanation I'd accept for Beechen's unspeakable violation of Cassandra Cain at this point.

 

[Mystirious]

Pretty much the only explanation I'd accept for Beechen's unspeakable violation of Cassandra Cain at this point.

Poor Cass. She was the best Batgirl DC ever had and they treated her like a red-headed step child

 

[hippie_hunter]

Pretty much the only explanation I'd accept for Beechen's unspeakable violation of Cassandra Cain at this point.

Johns had a perfectly good explanation for her turn and a great way to undo it. But then Beechen had to **** it up.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What, drugs? That still wouldn't have sat particularly well with me.

 

[hippie_hunter]

What, drugs? That still wouldn't have sat particularly well with me.

It's better than oh she just turned evil for no reason

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Getting punched in the face is better than getting shot, too. Doesn't mean I'd like either.

 

[fifthfiend]

Pretty much the only explanation I'd accept for Beechen's unspeakable violation of Cassandra Cain at this point.

Any day now Cass is gonna get back from that mountain she went to meditate on at the end of her series and ask who the **** is this crazy chick running around with her name.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

We can hope. And ultimately be disappointed.

 

[Mystirious]

Any day now Cass is gonna get back from that mountain she went to meditate on at the end of her series and ask who the **** is this crazy chick running around with her name.

With Connor Hawk, Black Canary and Wonder Woman in tow

 

[hippie_hunter]

Connor Hawke, Black Canary, and Wonder Woman have got nothing on Cassandra Cain.

At least Black Canary is going to be written by Gail Simone after she pretty much insisted that they get divorced and J.T. Krul wanted Green Arrow to be completely alone.

At least Connor Hawke got his capabilities back.

And Wonder Woman only had to deal with the mess of Amazon's Attack that has pretty much been brushed aside now and JMS is taking over the character.

 

[Mystirious]

At least Black Canary is going to be written by Gail Simone after she pretty much insisted that they get divorced and J.T. Krul wanted Green Arrow to be completely alone.

For that, I truly am eternally grateful.

And Wonder Woman only had to deal with the mess of Amazon's Attack that has pretty much been brushed aside now and JMS is taking over the character

I really don't think that's a good thing So far none of what JMS has said in interviews has given me any great deal of confidence in him. I think we have another Amazons Attack style debacle headed our way

 

[hippie_hunter]

For that, I truly am eternally grateful.

I dunno, I kinda think a long distance marriage between Green Arrow and Black Canary would have been good as opposed to Dinah completely abandoning him to fulfill Simone and Kruls' Quesada-esque fetish to end the marriage.

I really don't think that's a good thing So far none of what JMS has said in interviews has given me any great deal of confidence in him. I think we have another Amazons Attack style debacle headed our way

Nothing can be as bad as Amazons Attack. Worst. DC. Comic. Ever.

And the worst part is that my dog ruined one of my issues so I had to buy another one to replace it

 

[Mystirious]

I dunno, I kinda think a long distance marriage between Green Arrow and Black Canary would have been good as opposed to Dinah completely abandoning him to fulfill Simone and Kruls' Quesada-esque fetish to end the marriage.

I wouldn't compare them to Quesada myself. But then I never liked the Green Arrow and Black Canary marriage or indeed liked them as a couple. I'm an Oracle/Black Canary shipper through and through

Nothing can be as bad as Amazons Attack. Worst. DC. Comic. Ever.

And the worst part is that my dog ruined one of my issues so I had to buy another one to replace it

You made a terrible error there. Your dog was trying to save you from the horrors of Amazons Attack the only way it knew how.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

At least Black Canary is going to be written by Gail Simone after she pretty much insisted that they get divorced and J.T. Krul wanted Green Arrow to be completely alone.

That would be because Simone understands what a strong and independent woman she built Black Canary into and why it was so wholly wrong for her to crawl back to the dick nugget who'd cheated on her time and time again just because he offered her a ring this time.

I can't remember, actually; what was Simone's reaction to the wedding?

 

[Mystirious]

I don't remember her reaction at the time but I seem to recall several interviews in which she was very critical of it.

And yes, it is just demeaning to Dinah for her to go back to Ollie after all he's done over the years. It's like a mawkish Lifetime movie only with superheroes

 

[hippie_hunter]

That would be because Simone understands what a strong and independent woman she built Black Canary into and why it was so wholly wrong for her to crawl back to the dick nugget who'd cheated on her time and time again just because he offered her a ring this time.

I can't remember, actually; what was Simone's reaction to the wedding?

I don't remember her reaction at the time but I seem to recall several interviews in which she was very critical of it.

And yes, it is just demeaning to Dinah for her to go back to Ollie after all he's done over the years. It's like a mawkish Lifetime movie only with superheroes

Simone was vehemently opposed to the marriage. She said that she would never write Black Canary as long as she was married to Green Arrow.

I think a divorce would have been acceptable, but Black Canary came off a little too *****y when she said that she was done with Ollie.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

After what she's put up with from him, I don't believe there is such a thing as too b****y.

What was the final straw for her, out of curiosity?

 

[Mystirious]

I believe it was Green Arrow deciding to become the Punisher with a goatee and murder Prometheus.

 

[hippie_hunter]

After what she's put up with from him, I don't believe there is such a thing as too b****y.

What was the final straw for her, out of curiosity?

She said that Ollie lying about killing Prometheus was a wedge to drive her away.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ah, well, at least something good came of Ollie becoming a murderer. Again.