World War 3...

[ShadowBoxing]

I disagree here, simply because there are plenty of unreasonable, abusive, rambling monomaniacs that make it their mission to debunk and mock any profession of religious belief they stumble across.

Disbelief, like belief, has both reasonable and unreasonable degrees to which it drives one's daily thought process and the ability to communicate with others.

Actually, I was having a discussion on just this Saturday night with a friend of mine and former student, while we were drunk (not that drunk though) and smoking cigars.

He made some interesting points. And the first had directly to do with what Lizard said.

For some people, he noted, faith alone is enough. Both of us were Christians at one time, but we both concluded we needed something more, some empirical foundation for our beliefs. Not just faith.

However he said that for some this faith is enough, and perhaps even if one could disprove the ENTIRE Bible false, right down to who wrote it and the characters in it, people would still believe it. He also contended that while the people who debunk and study the Bibles history forget and then shove it in some believers obviously never studied people. It's great to have information available, but ultimately it's their choice to reject it whether you see it as logical or not.

Either way, I thought the point that for some faith is all that is needed was well made.

 

[Killgore]

Anyone that makes a bobblehead of the bomb/turban wearing Muhammad is an idiot, and anyone that goes crazy and starts killing people to protest the bobblehead is an even bigger idiot.

Whereas I respect the freedom of said maker of bobblehead of the bomb/turban wearing Muhammad idiot, I don't respect the freedom of Even Bigger Idiot's right to protest by going crazy and start killing people.

In my estimation, EBI should make a bobblehead of a Marine sitting in his barracks defecating and being over trained, under-utilized and so very useless in 21st century combat that he spends his time creating Muslim bobble heads. I'd buy both and have them go at each other like rockem sockem robots.

VERSUS

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

What you speak of is theocratic fascism.

Freedom of speech extends to the irrational, stupid and incendiary. There's no need for a First Amendment for benign or popular points of view. The intention of the amendment is not to protect the innocuous poems of Robert Frost or the cutesy photographs of Anne Geddes, but the speech of the iconoclasts, the unpopular and minority.

Okay. Hypothetical example time, with some facts.

Fact:
ARTICLE 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.

Example:
If say, a guy has the "irrational, stupid and incendiary" belief that blue-eyed people should be killed on sight. And he goes on to kill every blue-eyed person he sees on the streets, and says, "hey! im just expressing myself! i have the freedom of expression, and im excercising it!"

Question 1:
Would you not condemn this man for his actions?

Question 2:
Would you say that no matter how irrational, stupid, and incendiary his beliefs are, they are still justified because he has the right to believe so, and act on his beliefs?

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Whereas I respect the freedom of said maker of bobblehead of the bomb/turban wearing Muhammad idiot, I don't respect the freedom of Even Bigger Idiot's right to protest by going crazy and start killing people.

We've come so far without name-calling or any sort of obscenities, why'd you have to do that? Anyway, I'm at fault here. I was actually expecting a little civility from you. Whoa. That was a mistake.

 

[maxwell's demon]

how does that even apply?


i've said it before and i'll say it again. people come up withethe worst analogies these days.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

how does that even apply?

i've said it before and i'll say it again. people come up withethe worst analogies these days.

If you've seen the gay parade example, then you'll know, that anything goes, as long as a point comes across.

 

[Killgore]

We've come so far without name-calling or any sort of obscenities, why'd you have to do that? Anyway, I'm at fault here. I was actually expecting a little civility from you. Whoa. That was a mistake.

For one thing I was using the terminology supplied by Demogoblin, in response to his post. For another, the description refers not the terrorist but to the inanimate object, the bobblehead. Work on your reading comprehension there, buddy.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

For one thing I was using the terminology supplied by Demogoblin, in response to his post. For another, the description refers not the terrorist but to the inanimate object, the bobblehead. Work on your reading comprehension there, buddy.

It would help greatly if your writing skills were better than what they are now, pal.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

As with most of our arguments, I'll just ask you to accept that we should agree to disagree. This can, and will probably go on forever. However--

In the situation of the bobble-head seller, according to UK law, if a secondary party has forseen that the principal offender would commit an offense, and the secondary party abets the principal in order to committ the offense, the secondary party will be liable for the crime, as will the principal. There has to be no causal link between the counselling, and the act. If someone intentionally strikes anger in another with the knowledge that doing so would result in the commission of an offense, he would infact be responsible for those acts. That's the law.

We have similar laws in the United States. People forget, while we have the 5 freedoms, they can only be exercised to the extent that they do not supress or deny another man's freedom. For example, the press cannot just waltz into a man's house and start taking photos uninvited. Nor can they print liable. So really the press are not truly "free".

Similar with speech. In this country for example, if you were to tell me to "kill my parents" and I did it, you can be charged with accessory to murder. I'd probably have to implement you, but you could easily be charged. This stems from the fact that if you paid someone to murder another person you'd be guilty. However, should you be let off if you found someone who would do it for free.

This goes back to the fire "clause". Everyone knows that freedom of speech cuts off when you yell "fire in a crowded theatre". Causing or inciting violence is against the law.

Furthermore, and back to the point you got at. Everyone is this country has the same rights. And our constitution first and foremost wants to make sure "equality exists under the law". Therefore if speech, press, assembly or anything else grants one man too much freedom (at anothers expense) that presents a constitutional problem.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

We have similar laws in the United States. People forget, while we have the 5 freedoms, they can only be exercised to the extent that they do not supress or deny another man's freedom. For example, the press cannot just waltz into a man's house and start taking photos uninvited. Nor can they print liable. So really the press are not truly "free".

Similar with speech. In this country for example, if you were to tell me to "kill my parents" and I did it, you can be charged with accessory to murder. I'd probably have to implement you, but you could easily be charged. This stems from the fact that if you paid someone to murder another person you'd be guilty. However, should you be let off if you found someone who would do it for free.

This goes back to the fire "clause". Everyone knows that freedom of speech cuts off when you yell "fire in a crowded theatre". Causing or inciting violence is against the law.

Furthermore, and back to the point you got at. Everyone is this country has the same rights. And our constitution first and foremost wants to make sure "equality exists under the law". Therefore if speech, press, assembly or anything else grants one man too much freedom (at anothers expense) that presents a constitutional problem.

Understood.

 

[AnimeJune]

Ah well...at least you guys are still free to make fun of Catholics!
*Monty Python's Meaning of Life* "Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighbourhood!

*EVERYBODY!*
Every sperm is special,
Every sperm is great!
And if a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate!"

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Ah well...at least you guys are still free to make fun of Catholics!
*Monty Python's Meaning of Life* "Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighbourhood!

*EVERYBODY!*
Every sperm is special,
Every sperm is great!
And if a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate!"

I personally draw my life lessons from "I'm a lumberjack".

 

[AnimeJune]

I personally draw my life lessons from "I'm a lumberjack".

And that's OKAY! t:

 

[ShadowBoxing]

And that's OKAY! t:

"I chop down trees, I wear high heels,
Suspendies and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa."

 

[enterthemadness]

No war...just peace.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Whereas I respect the freedom of said maker of bobblehead of the bomb/turban wearing Muhammad idiot, I don't respect the freedom of Even Bigger Idiot's right to protest by going crazy and start killing people.

Yes, the marine has a right to make the bobblehead, but he has the responsibility to NOT make it. Its the same thing as the yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater idea. Just because you can do it, doesnt mean that you should. Thats why I dont respect this idiots frredom, in that regard.

 

[Rac]

I tried WWIII, but you can't have capital letters except at the beginning of your thread title, so it looked like wwiii, so there you go RAC.

Yeah, like humor, man.