Apocalypse X-men Movie Continuity Explained!

[marvelrobbins]

I am pretty sure bryan wasn't trying to ignore X3 since the only reason we got beast in FC was because we couldn't tell how old he was in X3 and thats pretty much the reason why bryan felt he could use him



Xavier and Magneto didn't meet at 17 like X1 said either though

you have to give some leaway.I can cite you many terms dialogue about past was later dismissed in film series and tv shows.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I am pretty sure bryan wasn't trying to ignore X3 since the only reason we got beast in FC was because we couldn't tell how old he was in X3 and thats pretty much the reason why bryan felt he could use him

That excuses Beast. That does not excuse Moira MacTaggert. It goes with the cherry picking of continuity.

 

[Tilapia]

Here's how you sum up the OT at this point if you want to connect it to the FC story:

Something bad happened in that timeline that led to a human versus mutant WWIII.

I refuse to believe it was simply because Mystique got kidnapped and humanity decided to purge most of humanity, no matter what 1973 leads you to believe (rather... that's how Sentinels arise in the FC trilogy, but not the OT). Sure, from the OT we can see there were bad mutants like Magneto, who got out of prison at some point and terrorized humanity. The X-Men weren't getting the job done. Most of the good mutants got taken out by humans and bad mutants... and eventually the mutants all lose and we end up with a global Holocaust???

There is nothing from the OT that remotely leads to this kind of future. Magneto, one of the most powerful mutants, was reduced to a shell of his former self at the end of X3. The most powerful mutant, Dark Phoenix, was killed by Wolverine for all intents and purposes. Mutants were being accepted back into government. Beast was freaking Secretary of State. The School for the Gifted continued to harbor generations of young mutants learning to hone their powers in a safe and effective manner. None of this remotely leads to the type of future we saw in DoFP. And I don't want to hear about some viral campaigns from marketers and writers making **** up in the timeline as they went along leading up to the DoFP release. It's two separate stories. DoFP was a throwback to the original actors, sort of how Star Wars is using the original actors, except they are remaining true to the continuity by in large.

 

[iacobusleo]

Here's how you sum up the OT at this point if you want to connect it to the FC story:

Something bad happened in that timeline that led to a human versus mutant WWIII.

I refuse to believe it was simply because Mystique got kidnapped and humanity decided to purge most of humanity, no matter what 1973 leads you to believe (rather... that's how Sentinels arise in the FC trilogy, but not the OT).

There is nothing from the OT that remotely leads to this kind of future.

On the contrary, I think DOFP redeemed X3 in a way by implying that everything in that movie led to the dark future. Magneto's war and Phoenix's massacre of Alcatraz Island would absolutely convince a lot of people that the Sentinels are needed, hence the dark future. The President being accepting of mutants and installing Beast as Secretary of State does not automatically mean everything works out in the long run.

I thought it was perfectly clear that Mystique wasn't the sole trigger for the dark future. She was the start sure, but it was the combination of so many events that brought it about.

I don't know why people call it a continuity error when they say that if Sentinels were being developed in 1973, why weren't they unleashed onto the general populace until after the OT. I'm sure perfecting mutant killing robots and pushing the government to greenlight their release, especially when their original creator has died, takes time.

It makes absolute sense why it took that long, especially since it was implied that the Sentinels were perfected not just because they had Mystique's shapeshifting abilities, but Rogue's power absorption as well.

 

[dax]

On the contrary, I think DOFP redeemed X3 in a way by implying that everything in that movie led to the dark future. Magneto's war and Phoenix's massacre of Alcatraz Island would absolutely convince a lot of people that the Sentinels are needed, hence the dark future. The President being accepting of mutants and installing Beast as Secretary of State does not automatically mean everything works out in the long run.

I thought it was perfectly clear that Mystique wasn't the sole trigger for the dark future. She was the start sure, but it was the combination of so many events that brought it about.

I don't know why people call it a continuity error when they say that if Sentinels were being developed in 1973, why weren't they unleashed onto the general populace until after the OT. I'm sure perfecting mutant killing robots and pushing the government to greenlight their release, especially when their original creator has died, takes time.

It makes absolute sense why it took that long, especially since it was implied that the Sentinels were perfected not just because they had Mystique's shapeshifting abilities, but Rogue's power absorption as well.

I thought it was evident in the OT that nobody outside of the government knew that mutants even existed until sometime during the events of X1. In the Capitol Hill scene, Senator Kelly is bringing up reports of unidentified mutant sightings which should tell us that the world is just now learning that there are mutants living amongst them. In X2, William Stryker points out that nobody really knows how many mutants there are or where to find them except for Xavier and it took the cerebro attack at the end of the movie to expose the entire mutant population. Then, you have the events of X3 which leads us directly to the dark future in Days of Future Past and while we didn't see any sentinels in the OT, the X-men were already aware of its existence as shown in the danger room sequence in X3.

 

[iacobusleo]

I thought it was evident in the OT that nobody outside of the government knew that mutants even existed until sometime during the events of X1.

That's a good point, one which I forgot to mention. So really all of this is evidence that the entire OT directly leads into the dark future. The continuity in this regard I think is pretty solid. You have the gradual discovery of mutants in X1, escalation in the form of a covert attempt by a single party to start a war in X2, all out public war in a major city in X3, and eventually global war in DOFP.

 

[night0205]

You have to view the OT and what FC started as different timelines if you care about continuity. If you don't care then that is fine but FC has too many contradictions to connect with the OT. FC was a reboot.

 

[2kt09]

You have to view the OT and what FC started as different timelines if you care about continuity. If you don't care then that is fine but FC has too many contradictions to connect with the OT. FC was a reboot.

 

[Tilapia]

Here is another issue with Singer than I have to bring to the discussion. He decides to follow up X3 with DoFP. Perfect creative decision by himself and Vaugn (and Fox for greenlighting and investing the bread). It flips history. The future of the X-Men is salvaged... thanks to Wolverine (huge shock there but I digress...). The story is virtually concluded. There is really no reason whatsoever to continue with the same characters from the OT timeline. Xavier is healthy and playing out the string as professor. Beast/Storm are back and ready to take over the school. Jean/Cyke/Wolverine are together. That story is done and over with.

I can understand Fox coming in years later with a new director saying, "**** it, we got Jennifer Lawrence, now we are going to recast all the major X-Men and line them up for another trilogy post DoFP. We are going to bang out three more X-films and scrap the continuity and the timeline." Instead, it's Singer coming in and further undermining the original universe with irreconcilable contradictions to the continuity. He decided he had to rewrite history. I understand Rothman/Ratner screwed everything up, but it doesn't justify scrapping all five previous films.

Scott/Jean/Storm are still too old for 1983. They should really be 10-12 years old based on their ages in the OT, not 18. Apocalypse coming in all of a sudden? What justified that to happen in this new timeline, but not the old timeline? Even the writers were probably scratching their heads with that one. And Angel and Jubilee all of a sudden appear. It's nonsense (or contradiction from time travel effects if some folks need to sugar coat it).

Singer should have left the franchise after DoFP. He did a great job with the saga, but DoFP was not a billion dollar movie. He did not do enough in his tenure to rewrite the entire history book and garner this opportunity. Fox should have gotten a new director to tackle Apocalypse and take the franchise in a completely different direction since that was where they were inevitably going.

 

[iacobusleo]

The story is virtually concluded. There is really no reason whatsoever to continue with the same characters from the OT timeline. Xavier is healthy and playing out the string as professor. Beast/Storm are back and ready to take over the school. Jean/Cyke/Wolverine are together. That story is done and over with.

I agree. Im not complaining that they are making more movies, but DOFP in many ways is the perfect ending. Personally though even if future movies suck which I doubt they would people always have the option to forget them and see DOFP as their personal ending.

I can understand Fox coming in years later with a new director saying, "**** it, we got Jennifer Lawrence, now we are going to recast all the major X-Men and line them up for another trilogy post DoFP. We are going to bang out three more X-films and scrap the continuity and the timeline." Instead, it's Singer coming in and further undermining the original universe with irreconcilable contradictions to the continuity.

It's about security, both financial and quality security. Singer has proven he can make well received X Men films which are financially successful. And since Singer is still interested in the franchise, , I think it would be stupid for Fox to find a new director just for the sake of a new direction, especially since Singer built both the OT and the FC reboot.

Singer should have left the franchise after DoFP. He did a great job with the saga, but DoFP was not a billion dollar movie.

It feels like the fans are crucifying DOFPs perceived lack of success even though the studio and the mainstream audience are very happy with it. Billion dollar movies are an anomaly, DOFP did very well for a blockbuster.

 

[Frankeh]

Tilapia, my answer to Apocalypse showing up would be "it's a product of the changed timeline" but Singer is insisting that this movie still leads to X1 (in which there is also a teen Jubilee!) which I don't get at all. He and Kinberg should be saying that from Apocalypse on they ARE rewriting history a la Star Trek. It's a mess.

 

[iacobusleo]

but Singer is insisting that this movie still leads to X1 (in which there is also a teen Jubilee!) which I don't get at all. He and Kinberg should be saying that from Apocalypse on they ARE rewriting history a la Star Trek. It's a mess.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that Singer and Kinberg said that the status quo for Xavier, Jean, Scott and Storm was what would lead to X1. That would make sense. Everything else will be rewritten. The presence of Nightcrawler and Jubilee alone proves that they ARE rewriting history but still keeping the recognizable elements of the OT.

 

[dax]

You have to view the OT and what FC started as different timelines if you care about continuity. If you don't care then that is fine but FC has too many contradictions to connect with the OT. FC was a reboot.

How can it be a reboot when it copied the same opening scene from X1, brought in Hugh Jackman and Rebecca Romijn for cameo roles, and borrowed characters from X3 and Origins? In order for First Class to be an actual reboot, it should've created a different origin story for Magneto and left Wolverine, Moira Mctaggert, and Emma Frost out of the film completely.

 

[GuestStar2004]

FC was certainly not a reboot, while there were some director liberties or just changes to keep things fresh there was actually more an attempt to tie a fair amount of things to X1 like effects, cameos, homages and recreations

 

[GuestStar2004]

Tilapia, my answer to Apocalypse showing up would be "it's a product of the changed timeline" but Singer is insisting that this movie still leads to X1 (in which there is also a teen Jubilee!) which I don't get at all. He and Kinberg should be saying that from Apocalypse on they ARE rewriting history a la Star Trek. It's a mess.

logically the status quo of X1 could remain and perhaps wolverines introduction with rogue but it's hard to believe a lot of it would still happen the same way at this point.

But this is Bryan's prequel, probably what he has been thinking about since planning FC so I don't see any huge liberties being taken to move to far away from X1 and I dunno whether that's a shame or not

 

[marvelrobbins]

First Class actully did more to hurt Continuity than any other film although Last Stand set the stage for it.Matthew Vaughn trying to do FC as both reboot and prequel caused a major problem especilly since intent of both Bryan Singer and Lauren Shuler Donner was for FC to be prequel.

Fox has showed time and again they don't want to do a batman begins or casino royale or man of steel type of reboot they went with DOFP a time travel reboot somewhat similar to star trek but X-Men one is closer to past films.Many trekkers view new trek films star trek in name only

as for why Fox brought back Bryan Singer

DOFP WW 747 Million vs FC 353 Million.

The much disliked last stand did 459 WW.Even the Wolverine did better WW with 414 Million

if you take the audence attendence for X-Men films domesticly and adjusted them to 2016 then after well deserved maligned last stand at 308 million the biggest hits are Singer's film X2-306 Million X-Men-251 million and DOFP-242 million.FC only adjusts up to 156 Million.

Apocalypse doesn't literly lead into trilogy.that's impossible.instead it's likely to lead some characters into being similar to how they were in trilogy and similar staus Quo.

I feel like if you only want to watch films that are In "Continuity" only watch FC and DOFP before apocalypse and other spin-offs come out.far less to stress out about this way.I say this even though i consider X2 best X-Men film and prefer X-Men over FC.

 

[GuestStar2004]

First Class actully did more to hurt Continuity than any other film although Last Stand set the stage for it.Matthew Vaughn trying to do FC as both reboot and prequel caused a major problem especilly since intent of both Bryan Singer and Lauren Shuler Donner was for FC to be prequel.

FC was very much a prequel with liberties, there is very little about it that doesn't feel like a prequel and most of what there is that doesn't was pretty much bryans idea anyway and he has even gone on record of saying he was responsible for these continuity changes

Only continuity changes vaughn really had any effect was stuff like cat beast not being X3 beast, the cameos probably and little creative things like that

Thats just director liberties like colossus being changed in deadpool and even bryan singer himself changing toads look in DOFP where he doesn't look like X1 toad and it doesn't look like they will do anything to explain it either

as for why Fox brought back Bryan Singer

DOFP WW 747 Million vs FC 353 Million.

Fox brought him back for FC originally then he had to step down for jack the giant slayer and then they brought him back again when vaughn left to do Secret service and i know you will bring up rumors that vaughn was kicked off the project but lets be honest there is no evidence to suggest that let alone reason at all for that to be even close to being true.

 

[night0205]

Well as far as apocalypse leading into X1 let me say this. In DOFP beast talked about time always course correcting itself, and while the example with mystique being evil and sentinel future didn't turn out, I think that they are saying it does do that for the most part. The timelines generally will be similar, meaning apocalypse will lead into something similar to what we saw in X1. There will be major differences however, given certain character choices and certain major events in history. The rise of apocalypse will change much of what we know from X1 but it will be similar.

 

[GuestStar2004]

i think it will head a similar direction as i think bryan is making these current movies with the idea in mind that its the journey that matters and not so much the outcome which will either work or it won't but i think that is what bryan is trying to do.

Although by the end of x-men: apocalypse xavier is meant to be a different person to what he was in OT

 

[Tilapia]

I feel like if you only want to watch films that are In "Continuity" only watch FC and DOFP before apocalypse and other spin-offs come out.far less to stress out about this way.I say this even though i consider X2 best X-Men film and prefer X-Men over FC.

And that's that. I can't go back and watch films like X2 and The Wolverine, because hey, "it's time for a do over" according to these film makers. It's not that I'm going back and watching old X-Men films every year, but that trilogy cannot be further removed from my memory. Similar to how I won't go back and watch the SW prequels as they are unwatchable despite decent continuity/connected story. I won't watch old X-films that have little to no correlation to any of the current films and thus are irrelevant, despite having some good films in there. Two sides of the coin there looking at old trilogies in hindsight.

I can watch the OT, The Wolverine, and DoFP and look at that as one story and end it there if I choose to watch those films again... Spare the fact that no decent explanation was given for Xavier's return.

FC and Apocalypse appear to be a completely different story that is devoid of any connection to the OT. From a creative standpoint that certainly gives you all the flexibility in the world. From a story/saga standpoint, it doesn't hold water.

 

[night0205]

The only film the OT and Wolverine movies were removed from was FC. DOFP had large connections to all of the movies. The whole movie follows Wolverine from everything that happened to him to the climax of DOFP. So I don't think you can say they couldn't be further removed, when it is FC that removed itself. Even if you swallow what the filmmakers have told us, you have 6 movies that have good continuity vs 1 (FC). Now if you hate that they created a new timeline in DOFP then that is fine, but different timelines aren't really new to X-men. And I thought the way they pulled it off was brilliant.

 

[GuestStar2004]

DOFP had very little to no connection to x-men: origins, apart from one flash back shot of his bone claws being broken by victor so yeah FC was just as connected as DOFP was with picking what to keep and want to change

The OT is connected to DOFP so it helps to watch the OT also since there are obvious connections to DOFP and presumably to a certain extent apocalypse because of the result or repercussion

 

[night0205]

Well I don't believe that connection between films is defined by how much footage is used in each other's film. Most franchises don't even show footage across movies. To say that DOFP has little to no connection to Origins just isn't true. Now, Origins was the worst X-men movie by far, but it fit into the continuity of the OT very well. Where did we see the implementation of the bone claws which was used in DOFP? Where did we learn the Origin of Wolverine, including his metal skeleton? Where was the connection between Creed and Wolverine explained? Where did we learn of Strykers involvement in Wolverine's past? All of these are important events connected to the story of DOFP. Now we can argue how much we hate those events or how poorly they were implemented all day long, which I agree much was poorly implemented, but Origins has large connections to DOFP. It is the first chronological movie in the saga, and an origin of the first timeline. The reason I stated FC has removed itself, was not referring to footage or connections of plot, but purely referring to lazy contradictions to the saga that really Origins had done a more acceptable job at.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well I don't believe that connection between films is defined by how much footage is used in each other's film. Most franchises don't even show footage across movies. To say that DOFP has little to no connection to Origins just isn't true. Now, Origins was the worst X-men movie by far, but it fit into the continuity of the OT very well.

If you watch Origins and the flash backs with the OT there are actually some contradictions which makes you think they didn't really take notice of all the OT flashbacks when making it like in Origins logan slices and breaks the door when leaving the facility whiler in X2 flashback he just opens it and runs out, but then again i do remember in a X-Men: Origins documentary in 2009 the director did say he wanted to change a few things up in the experiment sequence.

Course you also have the whole thing of why they didn't see the adamantium bullet in the X1 X-ray but obvious these could be concidered more plot holes i suppose

Where was the connection between Creed and Wolverine explained?

How exactly is that in any way important? X1 doesn't give off any idea they knew each other unless you read into little things which go no where

I do to a certain extent get what you mean about FC since it is telling a brand new story which references the other films rather then keeping track of what we heard or seen about the backstory in previous movies, well excluding that X1 frame by frame reshot sequence in FC which they did their best to replicate of course

 

[night0205]

We can't expect what happens in the nightmares of Logan's mind in X1 to be exactly like the reality of what happened, nor should we. The whole point of X1 and X2 was that wolverine's mind is messed up, along with his memories, and we would be having the same dark nightmares if we went through that.