X-Men - Part 1

[Manic]

Okay, this needs to be said. Aside from the secret squad of assassins (which Scotty disbanded because even he realized that was going too far), Cyclops hasn't really strayed from Xavier's dream at all.

What, he created an island nation for mutants like Magneto did? Charles secretly housed mutant kids at his upstate New York mansion for years. The only difference is the scale, and that fact that both Scott and Charles created their safe havens peacefully while Magneto took over Genosha with hostility.

Scott did some underhanded things and kept a lot of secrets from his friends. So did Charles. Let's not forget the secret spy network that Charles once recruited Mystique for, the secret team on Krakoa, Changeling taking his place and letting the X-Men think he was dead, and all the minds he wiped and nudged over the years so things went his way.

Literally the only line that Scott crossed that Charles didn't was creating a team of killers.

 

[El Bastardo]

Oh, all this talk of corruption. It isn't corruption. It's a cognizant change of values.

Stop being a white knight, Corp!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Okay, this needs to be said. Aside from the secret squad of assassins (which Scotty disbanded because even he realized that was going too far), Cyclops hasn't really strayed from Xavier's dream at all.

What, he created an island nation for mutants like Magneto did? Charles secretly housed mutant kids at his upstate New York mansion for years. The only difference is the scale, and that fact that both Scott and Charles created their safe havens peacefully while Magneto took over Genosha with hostility.

Scott did some underhanded things and kept a lot of secrets from his friends. So did Charles. Let's not forget the secret spy network that Charles once recruited Mystique for, the secret team on Krakoa, Changeling taking his place and letting the X-Men think he was dead, and all the minds he wiped and nudged over the years so things went his way.

Literally the only line that Scott crossed that Charles didn't was creating a team of killers.

I never said Xavier was perfect. You're right, he's just as corrupt as Scott became. But the ideals he set forth were noble and very much worthwhile. Beast could take those ideals and build a team that's actually true to them; neither Scott nor Xavier are in any position to do the same because they'd be massive hypocrites.

 

[Manic]

Charles is really no worse than any parent. He slept around like a dog in heat, did his share of drugs, and nabbed the odd candy bar from the store during his youth, but he'll be damned if his kids will do the same!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess I could see Scott leading the idealistic team as something of a redemption story. If that Fear Itself promo pic we've seen of him as Magneto results in his pulling back from the cutthroat tactics he's adopted because he finally realizes what a dick it's made him, I'd be down for a penitent Scott trying to bring the X-Men back to their core values while Wolverine's over there like, "Nah, Scotty, you had it right before. Idealism = naivete! Magneto's not a bad guy, he's just a realist who knows what it takes to get the job done." That'd actually be an interesting concept. It would also portray Scott as better than Xavier because, unlike Xavier (if he's remained the same as he was in Legacy, at least), he would've seen the error of his ways, realized that the means matter as much as the ends, and changed.

 

[Manic]

Wolverine really is the last person alive who should be put into any kind of power. Magneto may be an on-again/off-again villain whose changes in attitude imply more-than-mild schizophrenia, but at least he draws the line at killing children. *coughChildrensCrusadecough*

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, I could see Wolverine being the only one to openly oppose Scott's attempt to reform the X-Men. He'd effectively be placing himself as figurehead for "the other option" and be leader of the resultant opposition group by default.

Plus, the violent rejects who favor Magneto's means would look even dumber for following Wolverine as their leader.

 

[chamber-music]

I wish Wolverine was stab happy all the time like in Childrens Crusade & X-Force because I find it funny.

I swear I remember him cutting some muggers arms off when he was riding the subway in his solo title a year or two ago.

 

[runawayboulder]

Wolverine really is the last person alive who should be put into any kind of power. Magneto may be an on-again/off-again villain whose changes in attitude imply more-than-mild schizophrenia, but at least he draws the line at killing children. *coughChildrensCrusadecough*

And in UXF he was all gung-ho about bringing the child version of Apocalypse back to Utopia to hang out........APOCALYPSE.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wish Wolverine was stab happy all the time like in Childrens Crusade & X-Force because I find it funny.

I swear I remember him cutting some muggers arms off when he was riding the subway in his solo title a year or two ago.

That would actually be a great direction for Wolverine. He's already a joke of a character; may as well go the final step and make him a literal joke.

 

[Panthro]

Okay, this needs to be said. Aside from the secret squad of assassins (which Scotty disbanded because even he realized that was going too far), Cyclops hasn't really strayed from Xavier's dream at all.

What, he created an island nation for mutants like Magneto did? Charles secretly housed mutant kids at his upstate New York mansion for years. The only difference is the scale, and that fact that both Scott and Charles created their safe havens peacefully while Magneto took over Genosha with hostility.

Scott did some underhanded things and kept a lot of secrets from his friends. So did Charles. Let's not forget the secret spy network that Charles once recruited Mystique for, the secret team on Krakoa, Changeling taking his place and letting the X-Men think he was dead, and all the minds he wiped and nudged over the years so things went his way.

Literally the only line that Scott crossed that Charles didn't was creating a team of killers.

So... like foster father like foster son.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That would actually be a great direction for Wolverine. He's already a joke of a character; may as well go the final step and make him a literal joke.

Wolverine needs to be more like Rick Remender's version in Uncanny X-Force and less like well....every other way different writers write him. That'll help the character tremendously. Same with Deadpool.

 

[Panthro]

So when exactly did Wolverine jump the shark would you say?

 

[Manic]

So when exactly did Wolverine jump the shark would you say?

When did he regenerate his entire body from a single drop of blood? Back in the 80's?

 

[Panthro]

When did he regenerate his entire body from a single drop of blood? Back in the 80's?

I thought that was later/more recent. I vaguely recall that back in the 80s getting shot up was still something of a problem for him (even with rapid healing he needed a few minutes, possibly a few hours, to really recover).

 

[bored]

Hell, he had trouble with gunshots a few years ago, in one of the early "Astonishing X-Men" arcs.

 

[Manic]

Okay, I checked. The thing with the drop of blood happened in 1987. The recent thing was likely the time he regenerated from a skeleton after getting blown up by an atomic bomb.

 

[runawayboulder]

Wolverine needs to be more like Rick Remender's version in Uncanny X-Force and less like well....every other way different writers write him. That'll help the character tremendously. Same with Deadpool.

I'll 2nd that. UXF has been outstanding but no one seems to be talking about it. It's selling well but no one around here brings it up ever, it's like everyone's content with the book and leaving it at that.

 

[Specter313]

Okay, I checked. The thing with the drop of blood happened in 1987. The recent thing was likely the time he regenerated from a skeleton after getting blown up by an atomic bomb.

Didn't that include a retcon where he has to duel with death everytime he has to come back from what would normally be a lethal injury?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'll 2nd that. UXF has been outstanding but no one seems to be talking about it. It's selling well but no one around here brings it up ever, it's like everyone's content with the book and leaving it at that.

I don't read it, so that's why I never talk about it.

 

[Manic]

I don't read it either. I'm kind of against the very concept of the current X-Force.

 

[BrianWilly]

Literally the only line that Scott crossed that Charles didn't was creating a team of killers.

The a pretty drastic "only line" to cross.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't read it either. I'm kind of against the very concept of the current X-Force.

It's actually the best X-book on the stands. Unlike Kyle and Yosts X-Force where they killed without consequence, willy-nilly, and went on there way as if everything is alright, Remender's Uncanny X-Force deals more with the moral and ethical consequences of what they do. Wouldn't be surprised if it leads to more consequences.

For example, the actions of X-Force has led to Deadpool feeling so horrible, that he can't sleep and even got the group together to talk about what happened.

 

[runawayboulder]

For example, the actions of X-Force has led to Deadpool feeling so horrible, that he can't sleep and even got the group together to talk about what happened.

This must be from the new issue?

 

[Manic]

The a pretty drastic "only line" to cross.

Which is why he un-crossed it. I mean, he can't take away the deaths he authorized, but he realized it was going too far.