X3 Climax Was Inspired By Phoenix Endsong

[Loganbabe]

Logan worship in all shapes and forms? t:

And why not?

I mean, come on, even YOU will find it in yourself that the scene in X-3 was a poor tribute to the original scene.

Wolvie being at the forefront of it should have no bearing whatsoever on whether it's good or not. t:

I liked the scene in the movie, altough I think it was too short - but then everthing was in X3.
But I can´t compare it to the one in "Planet X". Because that was pure comic book perfection, as I´ve already said.
Logan being at the forefront of a scene doesn´t make it automatically good in my book. I always thought that the scene in X1 in which he drives Scott´s motorcycle to find Rogue was utterly ridiculous, and his "fight in the forest" in X3 was forced and pointless.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

And why not?

Please, chica, stop being so defensive. I thought tbe smilies were somewhat of a hint that the metaphorical claws aren't actually out. Relax. t:

Logan being at the forefront of a scene doesn´t make it automatically good in my book. I always thought that the scene in X1 in which he drives Scott´s motorcycle to find Rogue was utterly ridiculous, and his "fight in the forest" in X3 was forced and pointless.

Huh, well what do you know. t:

And yeah, that scene in X1 did scream of "Look, kiddies, it's a bike and it goes super-fast, but he didn't KNOW. ROXOR!!!! You ARE being entertained!!!!" t:

 

[Goddessreicho]

Rather her than hardcore Storm fans because at least she doesn't keep reminding us why he's OMG roxor better than everyone else.

HEY!

Oh well. I haven't really read posts from hardcore Storm fans though.
Should I be glad about that?

Dear god, yes.

To put it politely, the most hardcore of them don't just like her.

She's the rightful goddess queen of the universe. Everyone else sucks when compared to her. It's not an opinion, it's an established fact. Written in stone at the top of mount Olympus with thunder lighting up the sky and all that s**t.

Oh well, to each his/her own.

HEY HEY!!! Grrrr. I'm sad now. I was going to post a neat thread on a theory I had about my thoughts on movie-verse Storm too and a fair compromise.

:SNIFF:

Meanies....

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

HEY!

HEY HEY!!! Grrrr. I'm sad now. I was going to post a neat thread on a theory I had about my thoughts on movie-verse Storm too and a fair compromise.

:SNIFF:

Meanies....

The hell?

Didn't I make it clear I was only speaking of the most hardcore fans thinking every being in the Marvelverse should bow down to 'Ro 24/7?

And why on Earth would you believe I of all people would label you as such, chica? Hell, or even go for mass profiling at that.

Besides, you know I f****n love vintage Storm as opposed to the Mary Sue she's become. I thought it was obvious all Mary Sues - as, let's say, movieverse Wolvie - annoy me equally. I was just poking fun at that. t:

Bah, no sweat, I'll chalk it up to the fact that it's almost 3 AM. t:

And do go ahead with that thread. Sounds like a good read. Will no doubt beat about 99% of the suggestions made in the x-sequels forum anyway.


P.S. And yes, the Wolverine mention was just to steer things back on topic. Ya know, the whole Wolvie turning into a weepy lovesick good guy rather than the ruthless ronin-esque S.O.B. he truly is just to make the X3 scene all the more meaningful and romantic. CLEVER!!!

 

[Goddessreicho]

The hell?

Didn't I make it clear I was only speaking of the most hardcore fans thinking every being in the Marvelverse should bow down to 'Ro 24/7?

And why on Earth would you believe I of all people would label you as such, chica? Hell, or even go for mass profiling at that.

Besides, you know I f****n love vintage Storm as opposed to the Mary Sue she's become. I thought it was obvious all Mary Sues - as, let's say, movieverse Wolvie - annoy me equally. I was just poking fun at that. t:

Bah, no sweat, I'll chalk it up to the fact that it's almost 3 AM. t:

And do go ahead with that thread. Sounds like a good read. Will no doubt beat about 99% of the suggestions made in the x-sequels forum anyway.


P.S. And yes, the Wolverine mention was just to steer things back on topic. Ya know, the whole Wolvie turning into a weepy lovesick good guy rather than the ruthless ronin-esque S.O.B. he truly is just to make the X3 scene all the more meaningful and romantic. CLEVER!!!

GOTCHA!!! Haha. You know I mean very little harm, especially to you. t::heart:

 

[BMM]

Somehow I think that if this had been one of the opening sequences of X-Men: The Last Stand, the reasoning of this thread would be somewhat different...

 

[Halcohol]

^AAAAHAHAHAHA! I love it!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

From what I've seen a lot of the Logan fans have the same attitude as some hardcore Storm fans have. In other words their attitude is "I don't care about the comics, nor do I care about the other characters. I want Logan all the time and he's more important than Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, Iceman, Beast, Colossus, and Angel."

Of course not all of them are this way. It's just their attitudes clearly display that if anyone other than Logan gets a chance to shine then they get upset, or if someone criticizes the direction of Logan, they get upset you know?

I realize that not everyone will be pleased in terms of comic book films. However, I just find it weird how anyone who calls themselves "comic book" can denounce the importance of Cyclops, Rogue, Colossus, Beast, Angel, Gambit, and so forth.

I'm not the biggest Storm fan in the world. When I grew up reading the comics I was more into Cyclops, Colossus, Angel, Beast, Gambit, Juggernaut, Onslaught, Apocalypse, Havok, and so on. However, I didn't denounce her importance by saying that they should completely remove her from the stories. That's where the misunderstanding comes from in terms of Logan.

No one is saying he should be removed from the story. We realize that he is an important character to the X-Men mythos, and in reality, it would be the ultimate sign of stupidity to completely remove him from the story as if he was never part of the X-Men. It's just there is a better way to do this than to completely overexpose him and make X3: The Logan Show for the third time.

His story was complete in X2. He accepted his past, he accepted that Jean didn't love him and loved Scott, and so forth. His arc was already completed and it was time for the story of Scott/Jean to take place. Had Singer have stayed would that have happened? I don't know. There's no way to tell if Singer would've taken that direction, although one has to believe that he would've and that it would've been an emotional character driven film than what Ratner created.

The climax of X3 was inspired by Endsong. Any comic book fan knows this and automatically pointed that out, but it still doesn't make it a good idea to actually have Logan kill her. I wouldn't have had a problem with it if Logan killed her so Scott wouldn't have to bear the burden.

For example, if that scene were to take place again, and I were writing it here's how it would take place.

Scott- ::Winces in pain as he struggles up to save Jean and he slowly starts to demolecularize in front of Logan, Rogue, Colossus, and Storm. But he still continues marching towards her through the flames and the pain::

Scott- Jean....

Jean-::Still as the Phoenix:: You would die for them?!

Scott- For them and for you Jean.

Jean- ::Starts to become herself again::

Scott- :Tears streaming down his face and his skin stops vaporizing:: For you and for them.

Jean- ::Starts crying:: Save me Scott....

Scott- ::Starts crying as well as he slowly begins to take off his visor:: I love you Jean.

::Camera turns to Logan slowly walking up to both of them::

Logan- Scott, I just want you to know that it's alright. ::Logan's claws reveal themselves, in which he stabs Jean and grants Jean mercy killing so Scott wouldn't have it on his conscience::

Jean- ::collapses in Scotts arms as Logan takes the claws out of her chest, and with her one last breath she says her final words:: I love you Scott....

Scott- ::Holding her tight in his arms and breaking down in tears:: Jean.....Jean.......::He opens his eyes and releases powerful optic blast into the sky::

 

[Goddessreicho]

See, that's where I think your wrong. Storm fans didn't want a useless out-of-place tool for the third time, and that is exactly what they got to the most extreme level. Still no back story, wrong place on the team (what? a Aunt Jemaima, chauffeur, who can't "control it like that", with absolutely no leadership skills, who's pointless angry all the time because she has no reason to be, which winds down to her having no story? WHO THE FK WAS THAT WOMAN?)

That's what Storm fans are angry about. Even tho other people had less time on screen than she did, the all were connected to each other in some way. Except for her. That's why I call her Minority Cannon Foddor.

Producers: Hey this scene is looking a little too Caucasian for me. Quick stick Minority Girl in there, just don't have her say or do anything relevant. Ooh, I have a great idea too. Lets also have her be stupidly and stereotypically angry at the world. We can chalk it up to her being pissed about being a part of a minority that's being shanked by The Man. That always works. If it doesn't just have her play with buttons on the plane or hang out with kids. Seriously, that's all she ever needs to do on screen.

Yea, to me that's why Storm fans are steaming mad. It's not that we don't care about the comics. We are still waiting for the people in charge of writing and directing to care about Storm from the comics. Cause it's obvious that they don't. I still have my thread I'm going to make.

But let me get back to the subject.

As I have said many times. Wolverine is the worst thing to happen to Jean. Really, he doesn't improve her character in the least bit. All he did was make her a prize in a pissing contest. We have seen that over and over.

Now I have no problem with the original DPS. Really, I don't. It's these annoying rehashes we are stuck with that drive me crazy. Endsong was nothing more than more word-vomit about Jean cycling through the X-men again, with the story being told by Land's typical Guess models. It was totally crapping on the first story all over again. Besides, am I the only one that found all the religious undertones washed down and badly done. A reincarnating cloning egg, the Tree of Life? Are you kidding me???! Poor Jean. She and Storm really got the CC treatment. Once he made them into well-deserving superstars, no one has ever been able to consistently characterize them well.

The idea of X3 having anything in common with Endsong makes me want to put a cigarette out in my eye. I would have much preferred a reference to the original saga. Besides, what where they thinking about taking scenes from a contemporary source. Every since the late 90's comic books haven't sold well. Not like they used to in the 80's and back. They should have done what all the other comic book movies have and stuck to older stories that are well known and widely accepted as canon.

That way NO FANS WOULD HAVE THE PROBLEMS THEY DO NOW!

Oh wait, that would be common sense.

 

[La_She-Beast]

ERM Beast is a MINORITY DUDE too. He just repeats what someone says/sees in an intelligent way... Oh wait, that's the comics At least the movie he looked/sound intelligent. But seriously, not just using "important" words and quoting "Famous" people ¬¬

And I didn't like Endsong either. Waaay too epic. "We're your friends" Puh-lease. Plus, I hate Greg Land. He always plots the X-Women in sexy poses. They never seem to talk, just seducing.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

See, that's where I think your wrong. Storm fans didn't want a useless out-of-place tool for the third time, and that is exactly what they got to the most extreme level. Still no back story, wrong place on the team (what? a Aunt Jemaima, chauffeur, who can't "control it like that", with absolutely no leadership skills, who's pointless angry all the time because she has no reason to be, which winds down to her having no story? WHO THE FK WAS THAT WOMAN?)

That's what Storm fans are angry about. Even tho other people had less time on screen than she did, the all were connected to each other in some way. Except for her. That's why I call her Minority Cannon Foddor.

Producers: Hey this scene is looking a little too Caucasian for me. Quick stick Minority Girl in there, just don't have her say or do anything relevant. Ooh, I have a great idea too. Lets also have her be stupidly and stereotypically angry at the world. We can chalk it up to her being pissed about being a part of a minority that's being shanked by The Man. That always works. If it doesn't just have her play with buttons on the plane or hang out with kids. Seriously, that's all she ever needs to do on screen.

Yea, to me that's why Storm fans are steaming mad. It's not that we don't care about the comics. We are still waiting for the people in charge of writing and directing to care about Storm from the comics. Cause it's obvious that they don't. I still have my thread I'm going to make.

But let me get back to the subject.

As I have said many times. Wolverine is the worst thing to happen to Jean. Really, he doesn't improve her character in the least bit. All he did was make her a prize in a pissing contest. We have seen that over and over.

Now I have no problem with the original DPS. Really, I don't. It's these annoying rehashes we are stuck with that drive me crazy. Endsong was nothing more than more word-vomit about Jean cycling through the X-men again, with the story being told by Land's typical Guess models. It was totally crapping on the first story all over again. Besides, am I the only one that found all the religious undertones washed down and badly done. A reincarnating cloning egg, the Tree of Life? Are you kidding me???! Poor Jean. She and Storm really got the CC treatment. Once he made them into well-deserving superstars, no one has ever been able to consistently characterize them well.

The idea of X3 having anything in common with Endsong makes me want to put a cigarette out in my eye. I would have much preferred a reference to the original saga. Besides, what where they thinking about taking scenes from a contemporary source. Every since the late 90's comic books haven't sold well. Not like they used to in the 80's and back. They should have done what all the other comic book movies have and stuck to older stories that are well known and widely accepted as canon.

That way NO FANS WOULD HAVE THE PROBLEMS THEY DO NOW!

Oh wait, that would be common sense.

I wasn't speaking about you, I'm talking about the hardcore fans who denounce all of the characters except for the ones they like.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I hate Wolverine wait...I actually dressed as him for Halloween.


Wolverine became, unlike the other X-Men, one more symbol of comtemporary pop culture. He has all the right to be the center...what's wrong is that he wasn't Wolverine. He was Cyclops. He acquired a personality that used to be his opposite, his nightmare. And he took Cyclops' role in a movie that should, at least, feature a little more the true love of Jean's life. And he still robbed the leadership from the most probably second most popular character in this mythos: Storm. And he stole the time from Phoenix. And from Xavier. And from Rogue. And from Colossus. And Quills.

 

[Goddessreicho]

ERM Beast is a MINORITY DUDE too. He just repeats what someone says/sees in an intelligent way... Oh wait, that's the comics At least the movie he looked/sound intelligent. But seriously, not just using "important" words and quoting "Famous" people ¬¬

And I didn't like Endsong either. Waaay too epic. "We're your friends" Puh-lease. Plus, I hate Greg Land. He always plots the X-Women in sexy poses. They never seem to talk, just seducing.

Have I told you that you are one of the coolest people ever! <-- Yea, that's ma LSB.

I do agree with you on Beast. I am almost glad that he wasn't in the first two movies, because he would have gotten screwed over alot. Just like Storm. Why, cause a certain someone behind the camera couldn't relate to him, and therefore wouldn't have even tried to get him or his primary introduction on screen remotely right.

But Beast did manage to come of extremely likable. Of course he did. How could they screw that up? Let's pretend I just didn't ask that.

I do wish that Beast had more of a role. It did seem like he was just forced in there often. Especially that scene about his outfit not fitting. Wow, who on earth would have seen that coming? Iceman having a joke at Beast squeezing into his uniform.

Wait, what? It wasn't Iceman being funny? What do you mean? Wolverine had that line??? WHAT?! That makes no sense. Cause Bobby has always been ripping into Beast, since LITERALLY DAY FRIGGIN ONE!

Oh yea, I couldn't agree more about Land's work. I seriously never want to see him on another book, ever. I wish more people could see through the Guess models and see the lack of depth and character.

Edit: He does have nice covers, though. But it's alot like a cardboard cake.

 

[Horhey]

Why am I not surprised that most of the X3-haters that have responded to this thread are Cyclops fans?

I think its clear now what is fueling alot of the irrational X3 bashing and its not becouse Magneto dropped the bridge in front of Alkatraz instead of on top of it. Is anyone else seeing the pattern here?

 

[Goddessreicho]

Why am I not surprised that most of the X3-haters that have responded to this thread are Cyclops fans?

I think its clear now what is fueling alot of the irrational X3 bashing and its not becouse Magneto dropped the bridge in front of Alkatraz instead of on top of it. Is anyone else seeing the pattern here?

You haven't read a word I've written have you. Let alone Flav's brilliant yet short post, or LSB's? I know Last Sunrise can be a little overwhelming, but he hasn't been the only one. Heck, no one here has yet been able to deny anything that BMM has said.

But your always welcome to try. Go ahead, try. I wanna see.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Producers: Hey this scene is looking a little too Caucasian for me. Quick stick Minority Girl in there, just don't have her say or do anything relevant. Ooh, I have a great idea too. Lets also have her be stupidly and stereotypically angry at the world. We can chalk it up to her being pissed about being a part of a minority that's being shanked by The Man. That always works. If it doesn't just have her play with buttons on the plane or hang out with kids. Seriously, that's all she ever needs to do on screen.

You know what, I'm starting to have this theory about how the movieverse' "Black Angry Storm" came about.

Producer #1: So, what do we do about Storm? Lots of fans are complaining.

Producer #2: Will they still go see the flick?

Producer #1: Most likely.

Producer #2: F**k'em.

Producer #1: Well, yeah, but still, maybe we could do a little something if just to shut them up for five seconds...

Producer #2: Yeah, I guess. I hope your idea doesn't include opening a f****n comicbook or anything.

Producer #1: Well, actually, there's that Chris Rock HBO Special.

Producer #2: And... Oh, yeah! He's black, isn't he? Surely, he must know what he's talking about, right?

***After aforementioned comedy show***

Producer #1: Man, that was pretty funny.

Producer #2: Hell yeah. So what you got?

Producer #1: Black women are pissed, complain a lot and throw random fits.

Producer #2: Me too.

Producer #1: So we've got our character arc for X3?

Producer #2: Yup. Man, we f*****n pwn.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

what's wrong is that he wasn't Wolverine. He was Cyclops. He acquired a personality that used to be his opposite, his nightmare. And he took Cyclops' role in a movie that should, at least, feature a little more the true love of Jean's life. And he still robbed the leadership from the most probably second most popular character in this mythos: Storm. And he stole the time from Phoenix. And from Xavier. And from Rogue. And from Colossus. And Quills.

Come to think of it, they should've just called him Leech. t:

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Why am I not surprised that most of the X3-haters that have responded to this thread are Cyclops fans?

Funny, most of us haven't even requested for Cyke to replace Wolvie in that scene.

Had it been Cyke delivering that one godawful line, it would've been just as bad.


Edit: Huh, you'd think my avatar somehow conveys the notion that I don't want Cyke anywhere near Firecrotch. Oh well... t:

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Why am I not surprised that most of the X3-haters that have responded to this thread are Cyclops fans?

I think its clear now what is fueling alot of the irrational X3 bashing and its not becouse Magneto dropped the bridge in front of Alkatraz instead of on top of it. Is anyone else seeing the pattern here?

God, so much for generalising...is it my Cyclops avatar that makes me a dumb Cyclops lover/Logan hater? Way to go to have an intelligent discussion.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Why am I not surprised that most of the X3-haters that have responded to this thread are Cyclops fans?

Well, I'm more of an Angel fan. So figure that one out.

I think its clear now what is fueling alot of the irrational X3 bashing and its not becouse Magneto dropped the bridge in front of Alkatraz instead of on top of it. Is anyone else seeing the pattern here?

Again, X3 is bashed because it was a rushed, careless piece of s**t.

 

[Goddessreicho]

I know I know, Darth. It's like the Lovers of X3 manage to unite all of the character fan bases in this thread and them insulting them all by assuming they are blind Cyke fans (no-pun intended) and now even Cyke fans are insulted by that.

Wow, that was an amazing trick. Do it again!

 

[Horhey]

God, so much for generalising...is it my Cyclops avatar that makes me a dumb Cyclops lover/Logan hater? Way to go to have an intelligent discussion.

Nah, I meant no disrespect. Theres nothing wrong with being disapointed in the movie cuz your favorite X-Men character was pushed to the background, especially if you had your hopes up thinking he was going to have more prominant role like he did in the DPS. You guys have every reason to be pissed.

 

[Horhey]

I know I know, Darth. It's like the Lovers of X3 manage to unite all of the character fan bases in this thread and them insulting them all by assuming they are blind Cyke fans (no-pun intended) and now even Cyke fans are insulted by that.

Wow, that was an amazing trick. Do it again!

If you reread my post, I said ALOT, not all of the irrational X3 bashing. Alot of the critisisms being made of X3 are valid, and alot of them are ridiculous IMO.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Have I told you that you are one of the coolest people ever! <-- Yea, that's ma LSB.

Haha I wuv too. But that's the blind smiley. This--> IS the cool smiley

I do agree with you on Beast. I am almost glad that he wasn't in the first two movies, because he would have gotten screwed over alot. Just like Storm. Why, cause a certain someone behind the camera couldn't relate to him, and therefore wouldn't have even tried to get him or his primary introduction on screen remotely right.

Yeah, that's true. But he woulda have the Singer touch

Spoiler

Don't hit me t: Just my POV

But Beast did manage to come of extremely likable. Of course he did. How could they screw that up? Let's pretend I just didn't ask that.

Please, don't jinx it for X4

I do wish that Beast had more of a role. It did seem like he was just forced in there often. Especially that scene about his outfit not fitting. Wow, who on earth would have seen that coming? Iceman having a joke at Beast squeezing into his uniform.

EVERYTHING was forced except Wolvy and Jean. Come AAAN, we have to insert Beast & Angel! The original 5!! That will atract fans!

Wait, what? It wasn't Iceman being funny? What do you mean? Wolverine had that line??? WHAT?! That makes no sense. Cause Bobby has always been ripping into Beast, since LITERALLY DAY FRIGGIN ONE!

Yeah... I know... but even so... You know in epic movies there's always the black guy, the girl, the guy (who's the main character) and the funny character. Well, fortunately in the X-Movies we don't have that-everybody makes a joke just like "normal" people Glad they didn't apply that either on Icey or Beast.

Oh yea, I couldn't agree more about Land's work. I seriously never want to see him on another book, ever. I wish more people could see through the Guess models and see the lack of depth and character.

Edit: He does have nice covers, though. But it's alot like a cardboard cake.

Nah, he's a pervert. He just takes a picture and traces it I must say though, I liked how he "designed" Beast. He makes the perturbing-cat-nose a pleasant view for the reader, you know? Some kind of majesty.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Nah, I meant no disrespect. Theres nothing wrong with being disapointed in the movie cuz your favorite X-Men character was pushed to the background, especially if you had your hopes up thinking he was going to have more prominant role like he did in the DPS. You guys have every reason to be pissed.

Cyclops is not my favorite character. Far from that. And the reason why I'm dissappointed with X3 ins't because of Cyclops. It's because it's a bad movie. Jeez.