X3 Forum Debate #6: "Same Universe"

JP

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In an attempt to ease the fragile minds of us fans, Brett and co. made statements assuring us that X3 was indeed in the same universe as Singers films. They said that it kept the same tone and feel. Brett continued to mention how much he loved the first two films, and how he wanted to respect them.

Was he successful in doing this?

When you watch X3, do you feel like you're watching a continuation of the same story? Or does it somehow feel.. different?
 
Yes and no. As others have noted, it's bound to feel different simply because of a change in not only the director but almost the entire creative team as well. That said, Ratner certainly didn't pull a Schumacher.

It did feel different to me though. A lot of things felt like stilted versions of things we'd seen before and therefore lacked freshness. For instance, there was nothing really new about the School or the X-Jet. We've seen mutants in churches and in the woods before. Even Magneto's hideout looked like a lesser version of what we saw seven years ago. Alcatraz wasn't exactly eye-catching either.

There wasn't much new power-wise.

I thought a lot of things were out of expected continuity as well. Nightcrawler's absence, Phoenix (especially visually), Rogue's reversion, etc.

Some say X:TLS felt more like a comic book, but it didn't feel more like an X-Men comic book to me. I just thought the movie was cheesier.

I think this is part of the danger in unexpectedly changing creative teams. The new creative team doesn't want to stray too far from the old creative team's vision, but in doing so, they limit themselves and aren't able to offer anything new because it stands out too much... nor are they able to offer anything new within the bounds of the old creative team's style because they aren't the old creative team.
 
It feels different because it's a different creative team, so there is inevitably going to be a different feel.

But overall, yes, I do feel that it maintains a very consistant tone.

X2 ended with the X-Men making a challenge to the President; "We are being given a moment, a moment to repeat the mistakes of the past, or to work together for a better future. We're here to stay, Mr. President. The next move is your's"

X-Men: The Last Stand opens right up, showing us exactly what came of that challenge; mutants obviously weren't blamed for the events of X2, since there is now a mutant-friendly presidency, with an entire department dealing with mutant affairs, a mutant in the cabinet, etc...

X2 ended with Wolverine making his choice, finding a new home with the X-Men, telling Stryker "I'll take my chances with him". When we open, we see him as a regular, valuable member of the team, training with them in the Danger Room.

I watched X2 the other night, and a lot of people who find it neccesary to hate on X-Men: The Last Stand will say that what happened with that movie ruins X2 for them. For me, it was just the opposite. For me, I was able to appreciate certain moments even more, because I was able to see how they played out. For instance: "Ever since Liberty Island, you've been different. You used to have to concentrate to levitate a chair or a book, now when you have a nightmare, the entire bedroom shakes" We see this in the infirmary scene between Jean and Wolverine, when her emotions take over and the entire room... shakes. The challenge made by Xavier to the President, we see how that plays out with a pro-mutant administration. And yes, I even find the arc they took with Phoenix to be very much in line with what Singer set up. It might not have been what Singer was setting up, but it definatley fits in with what Singer had already established.

Magneto is very much the same Magneto, holding true to his promise at the end of X-Men: "The war is still coming Charles, and I intend to fight it, every step of the way, by any means neccesary", and indeed, that is exactly what he did in X-Men: The Last Stand, fight that war by any means neccesary.

The fact that I highly enjoy this movie is no secret around here. As much as I love this film, I still find myself with many complaints about the film. The consistancy to Singer's films is NOT one of them. To the point that I truly feel that anyone who states that it is -not- consistant with Singer's films, they are just looking for something to complain about because it's not a Singer film.

No, it's not the "X-Men 3" we would have gotten if Bryan Singer directed it, but Bryan Singer didn't direct it. So of course it's a different movie. He left, and he took the ENTIRE CREATIVE TEAM with him to Superman Returns; script writers, composers, costume designers, EVERYONE went with him. It was a totally different team on this film, so of course it's not going to be a carbon copy of what Singer would have done. But it maintains the tone, and consistancy of story, from Bryan Singer's movies, and for that, I applaud Brett Ratner. This is the biggest reason why I am happy we got Brett Ratner, and not Matthew Vaughn. Vaughn made it pretty clear, his feelings towards Singer's films, and those feelings were not feelings of respect. He would say the company line, about how much he enjoyed the films, and in the very same breath, talk down on the movies about how bad they were. Matthew Vaughn would have given us a horrible X-Men film. I know many people have complaints about the film as is, many warranted, many not, but it would have been MUCH worse under Matthew Vaughn. Of that I am certain.
 
I don't feel it was the same universe at all. The universe Ratner brought was far more comic booky. The action was lifted from the real world and had more of a focus on things that felt like they'd happen in the comics. This was good. Because Singer was much too reserved about mutants and their abilities. Some of the things said and done also fall under this category.

Honestly I'm to the point with this series I'm almost finished discussing it. It's such a disappointing series and neither director got the X-Men.

It's time to start over. Just erase it all from memory.
 
When you watch X3, do you feel like you're watching a continuation of the same story? Or does it somehow feel.. different?
No not really. There's the same actors, same x-costumes, same mansion, Jean's dead. But the tone and feeling is very different. (Like B89/BR and BF/B&R.) The biggest change might be that the characters act differently from the previous movies. They didn't feel the same guys at all.
 
I think the tone of X3 was on par with the first two. It was a "drama film with action" as Singer would say it. All of the action in the film served a purpose and wasn't just there to be there (imo). The only drastic differences for me, were some of the characters (Storm, Professor X, and Rogue). I felt all three characters were given things to say and do that weren't inline with the previous two films. For me, X3 just needed a much better script, and the studio politics (if there were any) needed to be gone.

Like many have said before, the franchise as a whole had so much more potential. Hopefully the next round of X-Men films will be given better treatment.
 
The 3rd film felt different for me, it felt short and almost dream-like, like this isn't the real ending to the trilogy

Although not the only in/consistencies here are the major ones that stuck out to me...

What does stay true to what B. Singer established
-Magneto was true to his character
-Bobby + Rogue's rocky relationship seemed like the next logical step
-Rogue's reaction to the cure felt like what b. Singer would've done

What doesn't stay true to what B. Singer established
-Wolverine was toned down too much
-Storm's character was totally different, but then again it was never the same in X1 or X2
-The emotion wasn't really there as B. Singer always manages to get in... exapmles: X1 Rogue + wolv scene atop Lady Liberty, X2 Storm + nightcralwer in X-Jet although subtle, but good enough and Jean's sacrifice at the end of X2

X3 Wolv shouldn't have killed Jean it would have been more powerful to see her kill herself as her friends watched her do in X2
 
The 3rd film felt different for me, it felt short and almost dream-like, like this isn't the real ending to the trilogy

Although not the only in/consistencies here are the major ones that stuck out to me...

What does stay true to what B. Singer established
-Magneto was true to his character
-Bobby + Rogue's rocky relationship seemed like the next logical step
-Rogue's reaction to the cure felt like what b. Singer would've done

What doesn't stay true to what B. Singer established
-Wolverine was toned down too much
-Storm's character was totally different, but then again it was never the same in X1 or X2
-The emotion wasn't really there as B. Singer always manages to get in... exapmles: X1 Rogue + wolv scene atop Lady Liberty, X2 Storm + nightcralwer in X-Jet although subtle, but good enough and Jean's sacrifice at the end of X2

X3 Wolv shouldn't have killed Jean it would have been more powerful to see her kill herself as her friends watched her do in X2

But don't you think that seeing her kill herself AGAIN would be a bit repetitious?

It's obvious that the makers of X3 tried hard to emulate the style of Singer while bringing their own ideas.

You can tell by the intro piece of X3 with the camera showing DNA and diving into human cells and blood (with the spiky 'cure' cells attacking) that this was an attempt to mirror the opening of X1 and X2 where we see inside the human cell and DNA.

You can tell when the screen says 'the not too distant future' as at the start of X1 that there is an attempt to blend the movie with the previous movies.

There is no denying the fact that the moviemakers wanted to make the film flow on from what happened before, but also bring their own ideas to the table. We knew Storm was rewritten - new hair, new outfit, flying scenes, an attempt to define the character as someone with a strong voice. We knew really that Colossus wouldn't tie into the main cure plot (except for the fastball special to defeat Magneto, which is a role Colossus plays in the comicbook cure plot when he throws Wolverine against the comicbook alien Ord, who is behind the original comicbook cure)... so we knew Colossus would be reduced to dumb muscle. Shame, as his scene carrying the TV could have been replaced with something a little more serious.

Most of the changes were made for obvious reasons, because new creative people with brains of their own came into the franchise. They weren't just drones, they wanted an input into the franchise. With a new director, the lighting, mood and cinematography were bound to alter.
 
I don't feel it was the same universe at all. The universe Ratner brought was far more comic booky. The action was lifted from the real world and had more of a focus on things that felt like they'd happen in the comics. This was good. Because Singer was much too reserved about mutants and their abilities. Some of the things said and done also fall under this category.

Honestly I'm to the point with this series I'm almost finished discussing it. It's such a disappointing series and neither director got the X-Men.

It's time to start over. Just erase it all from memory.
OMG Thats EXACTLY how I'm feeling. It's obvious that nowbody cared enough for the franchise to stay somewhat "true" to the comics, so the hell with them IMO :o
 
I feel the same way. :(
 
I guess the X-men franchise has that kind of effect on people :p Fr some reason this feels like the worst comic movie adaption ever. I don't think FF and SM had this worse of a "wrong comic feel" to it.
 
It's not the worst, by any means. I think the first two films are fantastic. But, the more I distance myself from them the more I see that they are just not X-Men movies. As a whole, the series hasn't been as fantastic as it could and should have.
 
To me, it wasn't "fantastic" at all. The plots were REALLY good, it's just a shame that everything else didn't follow up to it's standards :csad:
 
Yeah, I agree.
 
I wonder if Singer or Ratner have any regrets about the films....?
 
Singer, maybe. Ratner.. no. Doubt it.
 
Honestly I'm to the point with this series I'm almost finished discussing it. It's such a disappointing series and neither director got the X-Men.

It's time to start over. Just erase it all from memory.
My feelings exactly.
 
Well I KNOW Singer has some regrets on Storm :p Ratner should have the most regret for the sorry follow-up. I'm just COMPLETELY done with THAT part of the franchise. Bring on the new mutants!
 
In Ratner's mind, he is the king of all things X-Men.
 
Wow, mabe him and "New York" from The Flavor Of Love should talk :p

Edit: I just noticed that I haven't even layed eyes on the film in MONTHS...mabe since last year (06')
 
No not the same universe. But yet again, al three films had consistency issues. X1 was more faithful and had a futuristic, sci-fi yet realistic feel to it. X2 was just a damn good movie but very different from X1. It was more down to earth, more modern, more Bryan Singer feeling. Also some of the characters were changed pretty drastically and not to mention Xavier seemed to move into a new mansion lol. X3 was just way too out there. It felt more comic booky but it lost the uniqueness the first two had and just became yet another comic booky action blockbuster. An example would be the utter cheese of the danger room which prooved that not everything in the comic books translates well onto a live-action film. Holograms are too out there they should've sticked with what Singer had intended the Danger Room wanted to look like which was really cool looking. In all, X3 was, in my opinion, not in the same universe. I like to think of it as non-canon:yay:
 
Excellent, more Singer apologist.

??? Not really.. I believe Singer did not get the characters at all. However, looking past that, X1 and 2 were just damn good movies. Still as a comic book adaptation, counting mostly the character adaptations, not so good. X1 is in the B range X2 B- to a C. X3 is a D-F lol.
 
The fact is that X1 and 2 are damn good sci-fi movies. As an X-Men movie and a comic book adaptation, they aren't as good.
 

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