Sequels X4 - points and threads...

[TheVelvetOnion]

With the recent news from Lauren Shuler Donner, interested in X4 well i feel we need to look at the possible points and threads that was left unaddressed in the previous films.

1. Is Scott Summers/Cyclops really dead?
> Lets think about it for a second, in x-men the last stand we see the phoenix whilst kissing scott realising the force of the phoenix within him, On a psychic field Professor Xavier can no longer sense his conciousnous and thus indicating he has been killed and as indicated by Logan, Jean killed him... But that wasnt really confirmed, all we know is that there is no body and no conciouness of Scott Summers? is he dead? lets look at this, Jean Grey was a level 3 mutant meaning ability of that level, Professor X was a level 5 mutant classed as an Omega level mutant, When Jean became the Phoenix she went from 3 to 5, her telepathic ability is possibly beyond Xaviers at this point... so whats this got to do with Scott Summers being dead? Thats just it, For all we know the phoenix, unable to control her own abilities forced scott in a somewhat coma, his conciousness is hidden deep within him. Hidden even from the likes of Professor Xavier cause when you think about it Phoenix is more powerful thant Xavier was, otherwise Xavier would not be dead himself... My conclusion is this, Scott Summers/Cyclops can very easily return to the franchise, it can be easily explained and explored why this occured and can be a great segway to introduce such characters like Sinister...etc

2. By the end of X-Men The Last Stand, does Logan/Wolverine stay at the school?
> It is indicated that he has found a somewhat home with the x-men, Now he would not be necessary for a 4th movie, although in my mind now i can see a role for him, But think Jean's dead, Scott's found alive, white queen is introduced, Few directions towards the New X-Men comics, where Scott and Emma become an item and Wolverine disapproves of it, it would just give Wolverine more depth as a character... but again, you would need more than just that to have him in X4. But look at it this way, Wolverine is now and will forever be a member of the school, when he joined the x-men, he became the x-men. But doesnt mean he has to be in X4 - think about it, Logan is a solo act that sometimes appears with a team. So his absense in X4 is understandable considering the amount of times the character goes from solo missions to team missions.

3. Does the cure really work?
> It's indicated that Magneto starts to show signs his ability is returning, where does this leave that possibility? Now im a bit of a science geek myself, but when x3 talked of a cure that surpresses the mutant gene, i thought about how that relates to our real lives, for illnesses and stuff, well has anyone every been cured with one injection? now you have flu jabs that helps create antibodies to work against it, but when you talk of surpressing something, surely that is a repeat proscription? for start if you surpress something, without continued resource the surpression will wear out and it will return. Now beast states that the cure will surpress the mutant gene perminately, but that is impossible as i showed above. Now we are lead to believe that some time occured between x2 and x3, a new president was elected, we are also lead to believe that the movies take place between 6 months apart from each other... So i question this cure was developed in 6 months, where was the testing the FDA approval? a cure as you would imagine takes at least 2 years to develope before they release it. So my conclusion with this would be that you cant surpress this perminately, there powers will return.

Anyone have some thoughts, ill add more points and treads later

 

[Manic X]

I like the theory that Phoenix isn't used to her powers, loses control of Scott's powers, and they blow one another away. That's why she was found unconsious. Scott's maybe wandering the forest, captured by Sinister or whatever.....

Wolverine stay at the school, but has enough of a cameo to explain that he's leaving for a bit....let's say some sort of defending honor in japan type thing...

The cure, well, we already know it's temporary. This would be the perfect time for Rogue to 'accidently' get some Ms. Marvel type powers. She could be trying to save Danvers with mouth to mouth, and then BAM, her absorbing powers kick in....

 

[anrrd_2]

my thoughts....

1. Jean's subconscious teleported scott away from the site. don't know how/why/to where yet....

professor teleported his mind into the man in the coma's body...so i was thinking, bring in Forge, who updates cerebro with a tech that allows the professor to keep his mind constantly in contact with cerebro. He simply projects an image of himself to be seen by the students. still in his wheelchair, because its what the children are used to.

2. wolverine is gone. maybe some mention of him in canada with alpha flight. or maybe dont mention him at all. either way, give the other mutants some time.

3. The cure works on weaker powers...but with with the stronger mutants it wears off. they already hinted at it so lets just keep that the same. agree with MANIC X about rogue and Carol Danvers. Fox would have to reinvent the character of carol danvers because fox doesnt own the rights to ms marvel.



bring on the new mutants!!!! MAGMA, WOLSBANE, SURGE, DUST, MERCURY, HELLION, ROCKSLIDE, ELIXIR....yay!

 

[VictusMortuus]

Bring on Apocalypse for a 4th film. Bring back cyclops as a horseman of apocalypse. Giving us a chance to actually see his powers used to their full potentials, and bring back nightcrawler!!!

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

Apocaylpse is a character best served in a trilogy, he is too grand, too bold to just be introduced in x4, He needs his own saga.

I think Rogue's powers returning just as she goes to do something heroic as a human and obsorbing the powers of ms.marvel.

 

[Deaths Head II]

I don't think Rogue needs Ms. Marvel's powers. Rogue doesn't have them anymore in the comics and she doesn't have them in either X-Men Evolution or Wolverine and the X-Men yet is still able to kick ass. I also kind of prefer it since brawler-type mutants are a time a dozen yet Rogue is one of the few power absorbers. All she needs to do is absorb a few mutants' powers and then combine them in interesting ways that the original mutants could never have done.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

i think they should take the opportunity to show the newer x-men in this one, being iceman, kitty, angel, etc. i feel they need a lot of development. make the cure only temp, (the end of x3), mutants who were given the cure for a new life (ex: rogue) are outraged, and mutants who were forced the cure to want revenge. the brotherhood come and causes chaos in the city, forcing the government to take action, bringing in the sentinels and mrds. idk, i would really like them to kinda take the story line wolverine and the x-men are using, it would make an awesome movie

 

[Gamma Goliath]

i feel like cyclops need to return, i think x3 left too bad of taste in our mouths.

-ways to bring him back can be simple, i like the unconscious thing that was stated at the top, i think they could bring him back saying he was captured by sinister, maybe cable rescued him because in the future he grows up in the xmen fail to defeat apocalypse and sinister without cyclops.

-they can use wolverine but his role must be downsized big time.

-develop the younger mutants, i know there are a lot of unused mutants that the fans want to see, but they have to develop the mutants they already have, colossus, iceman, and shadow cat need the most.

-no more magneto as a villain, have the xmen come to him for help, maybe aid against apocalypse.

-bring back prof.x, maybe the body he transferred to was a shape shifter, so maybe we can have a walking Xavier.

-get a director who turn the franchise to crap like ratner did.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

i feel like cyclops need to return, i think x3 left too bad of taste in our mouths.

-ways to bring him back can be simple, i like the unconscious thing that was stated at the top, i think they could bring him back saying he was captured by sinister, maybe cable rescued him because in the future he grows up in the xmen fail to defeat apocalypse and sinister without cyclops.

-they can use wolverine but his role must be downsized big time.

-develop the younger mutants, i know there are a lot of unused mutants that the fans want to see, but they have to develop the mutants they already have, colossus, iceman, and shadow cat need the most.

-no more magneto as a villain, have the xmen come to him for help, maybe aid against apocalypse.

-bring back prof.x, maybe the body he transferred to was a shape shifter, so maybe we can have a walking Xavier.

-get a director who turn the franchise to crap like ratner did.

 

[javphonic]

I think Scott's absense could be explained (via flashback) by the idea of Jean and Dark Phoenix, going into an internal conflict where the attack is lessened (show Jean still loves him), and Jean exerts enough control to give off a psychic/telekinetic blast which casts Scott away into the safety of the woods and knocks her unconscious before DP can kill him... (the psychic energy from the blast is so strong it results in Scott's memory loss, thus Professor can't find Scott's consciousness, and his body's absence is because the amesic mutant goes wandering off through the woods after he wakes up... IDK he's possibly later abducted by Sinister for a sequel film)

I could see the whole Xavier's death thing going something like .... he allowed DP to kill him (as a last resort) to send Jean a wake up message: if you don't control her alter ego it'll destroy everything she loves... so when he saw that he couldn't reach her one way he executed his plan, with a his mental escape route already mapped out... and plus if Jean were the ultimate and superior telepath his consciousness wouldn't have excaped her wrath (it'd show how sneaky the Professor can be like in the comics)

As for Wolverine in X4 IDC, I just hope he won't be the ONLY central character again... in X1 and X2 his significance made sense, but in X3 he was too Cyclops... he needs to be the supporting bad*ss character next time

For X4 I'd like to see the X-Men, under Storm's leadership trying to rebuild their lives as humanity turns to the MRA's and Sentinels for protection, out of fear that a mutant war lord like Magneto will rise again... the problem will come when the MRA's are downloaded into the sentinels, thus all registered mutants are hunted down one by one

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I still want cyke back, he didn't really even get to lead.

 

[bullets]

If they make an X-men 4 and Scott doesn't return I'll kill someone.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

I think with Cyclops he is a much needed character to return to gel the x-men back together... Plus it would make great segway to introduce white queen and possibly sinister...

 

[WeaponXProject]

With the recent news from Lauren Shuler Donner, interested in X4 well i feel we need to look at the possible points and threads that was left unaddressed in the previous films.

1. Is Scott Summers/Cyclops really dead?
> Lets think about it for a second, in x-men the last stand we see the phoenix whilst kissing scott realising the force of the phoenix within him, On a psychic field Professor Xavier can no longer sense his conciousnous and thus indicating he has been killed and as indicated by Logan, Jean killed him... But that wasnt really confirmed, all we know is that there is no body and no conciouness of Scott Summers? is he dead? lets look at this, Jean Grey was a level 3 mutant meaning ability of that level, Professor X was a level 5 mutant classed as an Omega level mutant, When Jean became the Phoenix she went from 3 to 5, her telepathic ability is possibly beyond Xaviers at this point... so whats this got to do with Scott Summers being dead? Thats just it, For all we know the phoenix, unable to control her own abilities forced scott in a somewhat coma, his conciousness is hidden deep within him. Hidden even from the likes of Professor Xavier cause when you think about it Phoenix is more powerful thant Xavier was, otherwise Xavier would not be dead himself... My conclusion is this, Scott Summers/Cyclops can very easily return to the franchise, it can be easily explained and explored why this occured and can be a great segway to introduce such characters like Sinister...etc

2. By the end of X-Men The Last Stand, does Logan/Wolverine stay at the school?
> It is indicated that he has found a somewhat home with the x-men, Now he would not be necessary for a 4th movie, although in my mind now i can see a role for him, But think Jean's dead, Scott's found alive, white queen is introduced, Few directions towards the New X-Men comics, where Scott and Emma become an item and Wolverine disapproves of it, it would just give Wolverine more depth as a character... but again, you would need more than just that to have him in X4. But look at it this way, Wolverine is now and will forever be a member of the school, when he joined the x-men, he became the x-men. But doesnt mean he has to be in X4 - think about it, Logan is a solo act that sometimes appears with a team. So his absense in X4 is understandable considering the amount of times the character goes from solo missions to team missions.

3. Does the cure really work?
> It's indicated that Magneto starts to show signs his ability is returning, where does this leave that possibility? Now im a bit of a science geek myself, but when x3 talked of a cure that surpresses the mutant gene, i thought about how that relates to our real lives, for illnesses and stuff, well has anyone every been cured with one injection? now you have flu jabs that helps create antibodies to work against it, but when you talk of surpressing something, surely that is a repeat proscription? for start if you surpress something, without continued resource the surpression will wear out and it will return. Now beast states that the cure will surpress the mutant gene perminately, but that is impossible as i showed above. Now we are lead to believe that some time occured between x2 and x3, a new president was elected, we are also lead to believe that the movies take place between 6 months apart from each other... So i question this cure was developed in 6 months, where was the testing the FDA approval? a cure as you would imagine takes at least 2 years to develope before they release it. So my conclusion with this would be that you cant surpress this perminately, there powers will return.

Anyone have some thoughts, ill add more points and treads later

I don't think Cyclops is dead. You never see him die like you do Prof. X. He could easily and should be brought back.

Bring Gambit finally, leave Wolverine as a side story or smaller role, the cure does not work. It is only temporary. Pretty much all of X3 doesn't even matter. Prof. X is in another person's body. I think Jean should be considered so powerful that her life force or something is still alive.

That's how the series should carry on in my opinion. Also with Mr. Sinister if the pitch works. I think it will.

 

[WeaponXProject]

I don't think Rogue needs Ms. Marvel's powers. Rogue doesn't have them anymore in the comics and she doesn't have them in either X-Men Evolution or Wolverine and the X-Men yet is still able to kick ass. I also kind of prefer it since brawler-type mutants are a time a dozen yet Rogue is one of the few power absorbers. All she needs to do is absorb a few mutants' powers and then combine them in interesting ways that the original mutants could never have done.

I really am disappointed in the way Rogue is now so I would rather see her have Ms. Marvel's powers. She bores me to death in the 2nd and 3rd movie but that might be Anna Paquin's fault.

 

[ALittlePush]

I really am disappointed in the way Rogue is now so I would rather see her have Ms. Marvel's powers. She bores me to death in the 2nd and 3rd movie but that might be Anna Paquin's fault.

More likely the fault of the way the character was written. I didn't like the way Magneto was written at times in X3, the "what have I done" line was just horrible IMO. However, it's not necessarily Ian McKellan's fault. McKellan's a good actor. He can only act with what he's given. Same goes for Paquin.

 

[javphonic]

yeah the writers get off too easy, lol it sucks to be the face of poor development

 

[Deaths Head II]

More likely the fault of the way the character was written. I didn't like the way Magneto was written at times in X3, the "what have I done" line was just horrible IMO. However, it's not necessarily Ian McKellan's fault. McKellan's a good actor. He can only act with what he's given. Same goes for Paquin.

Oh god, I forgot that line.

I also feel that the writing is to blame. Anna was supposedly disappointed that she didn't get a chance to kick some butt in the series, so if the writers had given her an opportunity I think she might have done some good with it.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

They should of stuck with that one script before the final draft script...

1. That script had the alcatraz scene smaller and was in the middle of the movie, Rogue was the one that rescued Leech and realised he may hold the key to her being able to control her abilities, plus Rogue as a showdown fight with Juggernaut and knocks him out after taking his powers... explaining how she gets super strength... in the second party Rogue gets the ability to fly when Storm is injured during the final fight in the new york with the phoenix so Rogue takes storms power of flight to lift Wolverine up to phoenix and try reason with her.

2. In the previous script Gambit had a larger role if i remember rightly, he had two cameo's one was when he is freed by Magneto, second is where he free's imprisioned mutants in alchatraz who are being forced to take the cure. But when the script was changed to alcatraz being the final well it limited Gambits role to a small cameo then written out and replaced by Madrox.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Really Magneto is a bit off in general. Willing to kill children and all. Plus the bit in X2 where he tries to kill all humans.

After casually ordering Juggernaut to murder an unarmed child, the cliché "what have I done" line doesn't really bother me too much by comparison.

As for the cure, it is, apparently temporary.

However, it's still a wonder drug for the authorities, since they can use it to keep mutants locked up permanently de-powered by giving them regular dosages.

 

[psyonic]

They should of stuck with that one script before the final draft script...

1. That script had the alcatraz scene smaller and was in the middle of the movie, Rogue was the one that rescued Leech and realised he may hold the key to her being able to control her abilities, plus Rogue as a showdown fight with Juggernaut and knocks him out after taking his powers... explaining how she gets super strength... in the second party Rogue gets the ability to fly when Storm is injured during the final fight in the new york with the phoenix so Rogue takes storms power of flight to lift Wolverine up to phoenix and try reason with her.

2. In the previous script Gambit had a larger role if i remember rightly, he had two cameo's one was when he is freed by Magneto, second is where he free's imprisioned mutants in alchatraz who are being forced to take the cure. But when the script was changed to alcatraz being the final well it limited Gambits role to a small cameo then written out and replaced by Madrox.

Is there a copy of the first script/ draft online? If so would really like to read it ...

 

[Angamb]

They should of stuck with that one script before the final draft script...

1. That script had the alcatraz scene smaller and was in the middle of the movie, Rogue was the one that rescued Leech and realised he may hold the key to her being able to control her abilities, plus Rogue as a showdown fight with Juggernaut and knocks him out after taking his powers... explaining how she gets super strength... in the second party Rogue gets the ability to fly when Storm is injured during the final fight in the new york with the phoenix so Rogue takes storms power of flight to lift Wolverine up to phoenix and try reason with her.

REally??????????????????????????????????

I dont remember that.... I never knew the final part of that script.... anyone have it??

I cant believe they really thought about giving Rogue strenght and flight.. Did Fox really try to do it??

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I definately agree Scott needs to come back, someone in anothe thread explained a way he can come back which would be a great way to introduce a new villain.

As the scene cuts away in X3, they could show a scene were Sinister or Apocalypse gets in between Pheonix and Scott at Alkali lake and absorbs the Pheonix power saving Scott's life, it could explain why Jean is knocked out when Wolverine and Storm arrive and the mist and everything around the place.

Apoclaypse/Sinister then takes Scott with them and we can pick up the rest of X4 from there. It would be a great way of both bringing Scott back and introducing a new villain because at this point I want something other than Magneto.

As someone else said also, I would like to see Emma Frost introduced as a new love interest for Scott after her appearance in Wolverine, but I hope they would take anything like that slowly.

 

[TheVelvetOnion]

The pre-final draft script wasnt released... but it was mentioned alot, especially in DVD commentaries, but then i have a region 2 verson of the movie... from the info i gathered, this is what x-men the last stand should of been like, and if you google interviews around the time and after about the movie you may find some of them...

Original Plot
-----------
Starts of exactly the same except for some minor changes, 1. Scott didnt die early on, infact he was a major part of the story up till the final fight. 2. the other difference was Warren, he was around the age of Scott and Jean and was a former member of the x-men. It was his father developing the cure and Warren was unaware of it until brought to his attention by Beast...

Rogue doesnt get cured, she goes to but when Pyro attacks the centre, Rogue and Bobby stop him, Rogue realises what a mistake she had made

Professor X dies in both scripts. in the same scene too.

Magneto's role was pretty much the same, he was the only consistant thing from the previous script because Magneto gets cured at alcatraz in both scripts and from there the previous script ending was where the group go after jean who had fully become the phoenix.

During the showdown in New York, The X-Men consisting of Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, Iceman, Beast, Shadowcat, Colossus and Wolverine. take on the full force of the Phoenix, however just as Cyclops is able to get through to her, Phoenix kills him. Storm is hurt so Rogue takes her powers, and after the fight in alcatraz has both superstrength from juggernaut and flight from storm, and then you have a simular wolverine stabs her to stop the phoenix moment...

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

Watching Star Trek made me realize that if the characters in X-Men were developed as the crew was in ST, we would have a great X4. Cyclops could come back and take over Kirk's role, Logan could step down from the lead and take something along the lines of Spock. I'm in no way saying the characters are similar, I'm just talking about their significance to the movie.