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Young Justice Cartoon - Part 2

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I'm aware of that, but my point was that after thirteen episodes, the most development we seem to have gotten in the main story is a bunch of clues refering to, or someone flat out saying there's a connection to THE LIGHT*thunder*. Sorry, couldn't resist.

What we have gotten has been good, if not great, in my opinion. But good setup is still just setup. And at this point it's starting to fell a little redundant to still be hinting at something that the audience already knows.

Well, we actually now have some idea what they're up to (assuming it's all building up to one big master plan, as opposed multiple schemes) in this recent episode. The animals were pumped up on Cobra Venom and equipped with the prison's inhibitor collars; which suggests some future plans of building a slave army of super soldiers. Coupled with the planned prison break two episodes back, it sure seems like whatever they have up their sleeves, it's either really big or requires a huge distraction.

Also, based on his brief cameo, it seems that the Riddler isn't a member of the Light; which is interesting. This is made more so that they pointedly had it in the first place and that he actually escaped at the end. Anyone else think this will be important later on? Say, perhaps he will play a part in uncovering the Light's schemes? For instance, he commits a crime, gets captured by the team only for him to offer this tidbit of info as a bargaining chip.
 
Well, we actually now have some idea what they're up to (assuming it's all building up to one big master plan, as opposed multiple schemes) in this recent episode. The animals were pumped up on Cobra Venom and equipped with the prison's inhibitor collars; which suggests some future plans of building a slave army of super soldiers. Coupled with the planned prison break two episodes back, it sure seems like whatever they have up their sleeves, it's either really big or requires a huge distraction.

Also, based on his brief cameo, it seems that the Riddler isn't a member of the Light; which is interesting. This is made more so that they pointedly had it in the first place and that he actually escaped at the end. Anyone else think this will be important later on? Say, perhaps he will play a part in uncovering the Light's schemes? For instance, he commits a crime, gets captured by the team only for him to offer this tidbit of info as a bargaining chip.

That's actually the main reason I think he's part of The Light or some kind of grand scheme in general, really. He could be a spy biding his time until he gains control or something. He could be manipulating everybody. Riddler can be the mastermind without even going noticed. The story "Hush" comes to mind.
 
The past two episodes were pretty awesome, I definitely enjoyed them.
 
Very good episode, this show is getting better and better!
 
I'm aware of that, but my point was that after thirteen episodes, the most development we seem to have gotten in the main story is a bunch of clues refering to, or someone flat out saying there's a connection to THE LIGHT*thunder*. Sorry, couldn't resist.

What we have gotten has been good, if not great, in my opinion. But good setup is still just setup. And at this point it's starting to fell a little redundant to still be hinting at something that the audience already knows.

Hinting at something the audience knows before the characters is called foreshadowing, and is common in fiction. I suppose there is a dilemma in that ALL plots lead to "The Light", which means it can seem predictable. Done less effectively, it is common in many old shows where all plots led to Dr. Claw, or the Shredder, or Skeletor, or Mum-Ra, or Rita Repulsa, or Tex Hex, or Prime-Evil, or so on. But it is a double-edged sword. Any episode in which the involvement of "The Light" isn't obvious or even hinted at is often dismissed as a "filler" episode, such as "DENIAL" (where it was unknown if "The Light" were involved). Yet link everything to them, and it gets predictable no matter how well it's handled.

I suppose it can be irksome that only a few of "The Light" have been revealed outright. We know Ra's and Luthor are members, and Queen Bee is unofficially confirmed via the voice actress and whatnot. Vandal Savage is showing up next episode and he may or may not be a member, as well as Ultra-Humanite.

As for Riddler, who knows? Given that the Riddler is an anti-hero of sorts in the recent "ASYLUM" style Batman games, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar role here. While he's probably more reliable and sane than the Joker, his tendency to give himself away via riddles makes him an unlikely addition to any team that wanted to remain hidden long.
 
That's actually the main reason I think he's part of The Light or some kind of grand scheme in general, really. He could be a spy biding his time until he gains control or something. He could be manipulating everybody. Riddler can be the mastermind without even going noticed. The story "Hush" comes to mind.

I don't think the Riddler is part of the Light seeing how poorly Icicle Sr. treated him and how he actively kept the Riddler out of the loop of the plan.


Hinting at something the audience knows before the characters is called foreshadowing, and is common in fiction. I suppose there is a dilemma in that ALL plots lead to "The Light", which means it can seem predictable. Done less effectively, it is common in many old shows where all plots led to Dr. Claw, or the Shredder, or Skeletor, or Mum-Ra, or Rita Repulsa, or Tex Hex, or Prime-Evil, or so on. But it is a double-edged sword. Any episode in which the involvement of "The Light" isn't obvious or even hinted at is often dismissed as a "filler" episode, such as "DENIAL" (where it was unknown if "The Light" were involved). Yet link everything to them, and it gets predictable no matter how well it's handled.

I suppose it can be irksome that only a few of "The Light" have been revealed outright. We know Ra's and Luthor are members, and Queen Bee is unofficially confirmed via the voice actress and whatnot. Vandal Savage is showing up next episode and he may or may not be a member, as well as Ultra-Humanite.

As for Riddler, who knows? Given that the Riddler is an anti-hero of sorts in the recent "ASYLUM" style Batman games, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar role here. While he's probably more reliable and sane than the Joker, his tendency to give himself away via riddles makes him an unlikely addition to any team that wanted to remain hidden long.

I think the main issue is that so little about the Light has been revealed thus far - not just the identities of its members. for instance, we don't know what the significance of each of their schemes and so can't really imagine how they all fit in with one another. Compare it with another Weisman show, Garygoyles - where the main antagonist, Xanatos' various schemes meshed better, mainly because we knew his motivations - and thus could see what he aimed to achieve with them. With the Light, we can only guess at what they want with Cadmus, breaking the supervillains out of prison, acquiring alien technology, etc.
 
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That likely is because the show attached them at the hip almost immediately, yet took until about halfway through Season 1 to make it official and had poor Wally insist he was a viable third part of a love triangle as a tease. That, and they are very lovey dovey. Superboy is the poor angry angst ridden loner and Megan is the sweet empathic maternal type who understands him and swoons over him, even when he's screaming at her. In fairness, Superboy has been willing to protect him and being attached to her has loosened him up. But, yes, they can be a bit much for some people.



Indeed. That's be borderline gross.

Y'know, like Batman dating Batgirl. Oh, wait... :o



I'm pretty sure CN will be happy with Season 2 being 20 episodes. I think it was announced that the second season had gotten ten more episodes so it was up to 20. Weisman just plans ahead in case he gets more. Considering that it wasn't long ago - Kid's WB - when seasons of shows only had 13 episodes a season, I wouldn't cry a river with six fewer episodes next time around.

"TEEN TITANS", after all, only had 13 episodes a season. Same with "JLU", and both shows ended in 2006, which wasn't that long ago. If anything, it's been a boon to see shows invest in more episodes again.



I'd prefer Troy, since she'd make more sense to hang out with Grayson and Wally as a "founding" Titan (as well as with Roy/Speedy sometimes). YOUNG JUSTICE had Cass, but this show has basically merged their history with that of the Titans, so who knows. Having two out of 3 girls on a team be blond would be a bit much, though. Donna would also allow for a Greek heroine to have a more international appeal to the team.

Dread...thats why...yes.It happened so fast so quick..outta left field:cmad:
 
I think the main issue is that so little about the Light has been revealed thus far - not just the identities of its members. for instance, we don't know what the significance of each of their schemes and so can't really imagine how they all fit in with one another. Compare it with another Weisman show, Garygoyles - where the main antagonist, Xanatos' various schemes meshed better, mainly because we knew his motivations - and thus could see what he aimed to achieve with them. With the Light, we can only guess at what they want with Cadmus, breaking the supervillains out of prison, acquiring alien technology, etc.

That is true. While Xanatos was often the antagonist, he was also a frequent, viable character. "The Light" are not characters yet; they're a cast of vague figures alluded to and hinted at, who sometimes speak in the background to underlings, but always remain hidden. This can work for lone villains, such as Ernst Blofeld in the James Bond films, and Dr. Claw in more comedic and blunt ways in "INSPECTOR GADGET". But an entire circle of characters seem more distant and thus you can't pin a persona on them. We know they manipulate things, but we don't know their end or purpose. The build up for now is that the heroes have been getting involved in the schemes of "The Light", but don't quite know they exist yet.

Again, it's a double edged sword. Link every scheme and episode to "The Light" in some ways, and it's predictable. But have any scheme or episode that has nothing to do with them, and fans usually dismiss it as "filler". The best thing to do would be to do a proper mixture of both, but this show hasn't usually done that.

To a degree I see it akin as to the subplot of the latest HEROES FOR HIRE, in that "The Light" are a cabal of organized criminals who make macro decisions and make sure certain elements get obtained so they are passed along to the lower crime circles. Such as Cobra Venom and Belle Reve collars getting into the, uh, lobes of The Brain this week.

Dread...thats why...yes.It happened so fast so quick..outta left field:cmad:

Right. Almost by the time we meet them, they're attached. That's not always the best thing to do. Then they cease being two characters and seem to be two halves of one. That was the dilemma Rogue & Gambit sometimes had in the comics.
 
Greg Weisman already said in an interview that the first 13 episodes of YJ were largely for set-up, while episodes 14+ are the payoff. And this Friday's episode, #14, is titled "Revelation", so obviously some secret or lie is finally going to be revealed.
 
Oh, and as a reminder, "The Light" may not need a mole on the team since a viewing "eye" that beamed data to T.O. Morrow was part of Wally's "collection". That's an easy way to get information from them - a bug in their base.

Greg Weisman already said in an interview that the first 13 episodes of YJ were largely for set-up, while episodes 14+ are the payoff. And this Friday's episode, #14, is titled "Revelation", so obviously some secret or lie is finally going to be revealed.

True. Hence why it is good for a show to have at least 26 episodes to play with right off than 12-13. Although some condensation may not have hurt things too much. We may have gotten the Meganboy pay off sooner.

The "Revelation" may be how a team of bad-ass proper villains like the Injustice Gang lose to a gang of sidekicks and their special guest mentor of the week. :oldrazz: After all, the show came THIS CLOSE to depicting the JL as incompetent as it took 14 of them 4 hours to defeat AMAZO, yet about five kids (with Artemis in the shadows shooting one arrow) managed to do the same in, what, 25% of the time? Of course, there are caveats - the JL went in blind about what AMAZO could do initially, and YJ capitalized on AMAZO trying to protect its creator - but, again, THIS CLOSE. Maybe that's why it was called "SCHOOLED".

I can imagine the Watchtower discussion after.

"So, let's get this straight. You, the Batman, the greatest strategist our team has, couldn't figure out to target the robot's creator to stop it?"

"I didn't know its creator at the time."

"You couldn't have Bat-Googled it with your Bat-Computer?"

"I'm Batman. It was a training exercise."

"But it nearly destroyed--"

"TRAINING. EXERCISE."

"Plus, if five kids can survive it because it announces which power it is using every time, one at a time, how in the holy hell did over two dozen of us get manhandled for so long?"

"You chose to adhere to Captain Marvel's fairness doctrine of attacking one at a time. I voted against that one, because I'm Batman."

"Touche'."

Again, that's one of those things that's old as time, especially for coming of age stories. A mentor says something was impossible or very difficult, and the youngsters accomplish it with less effort, to showcase that they're ready to move up, and on, from what challenged the mentor. And if the cast of YJ were all defeated by the Injustice Gang who then left for plot obligations, that'd probably be a very "whelming" and "turbing" episode. So I'm not complaining or anything, just poking at stuff. I basically find it odd that the adult heroes sent their Junior Squad after a team of long term and dangerous villains meant to challenge them on equal footing. I can buy the X-Men doing that to their junior team, since decades of comics has informed me the X-Men only see youngsters as canon fodder, but these are supposed to be more compassionate DC heroes. Hopefully the episode makes that bit feel more organic. I suppose it works in one of those, "prove to us you treat us as equals" moments if the kids suggest fighting the Injustice Gang directly, rather than be sent after living greenery. Even if the logic of, "villains who can challenge the mentors will be unprepared for the sidekicks" is a little ropey. If one of them can, say, counter or compete with whatever the Flash can do, what the heck can Kid-Flash do that will be of any use? What can Artemis do that Green Arrow can't? If the Joker is used to challenging Batman's wits, how can Robin hope to outwit him? I suppose if the League don't know the Injustice Gang are behind the attack and simply assume it's, say, Poison Ivy alone, they may feel sending the kids against her alone is fair, not knowing she isn't alone, either. But we'll see what the episode shows us.

(And, again, this doesn't even get into the idea of Batman normally being against ANY teenage character being anywhere near Joker without him being present, if not at the forefront. Batman knowingly throwing any teenager alone at the Joker, even Superboy, just seems off to me.)

I suppose that was what helped "TEEN TITANS". Because it was so obvious that it was a cotton candy light thing which had it's own absurd rules and rarely tried to be serious, plot holes and gaps in logic were more expected and forgivable. "YOUNG JUSTICE" is a more serious show, so it has the task of explaining a proper path to getting somewhere, even if it leads to something awesome enough to make that path irrelevant. Because aside for the loopy logic as to why YJ are fighting the Injustice League, it looks to be a slam-bang episode that I'm anticipating heavily. In fact, my only lament of attending the NYCC on Friday is I'll miss it and have to try to catch it later.
 
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I'm a little confused as to why everyone assumes that they DEFEAT the injustice league..

Couldn't they lose? Couldn't they look like they stand a chance for...about 5-10 minutes? Than JL comes in and saves them?
 
I'm a little confused as to why everyone assumes that they DEFEAT the injustice league..

Couldn't they lose? Couldn't they look like they stand a chance for...about 5-10 minutes? Than JL comes in and saves them?

That would be awkward, since they're the stars of "YOUNG JUSTICE" and we basically had such a thing happen in "HOME FRONT" a mere two episodes prior. Which doesn't even get into their loss to Clayface at the start of "DOWNTIME" which still views very abruptly.

I suppose it could end in a stalemate of sorts and the Injustice League escape or something. I can't imagine the show just having Joker show up once and be arrested, and Vandal Savage may or may not be on "The Light". Still, some of them would likely go down, like Poison Ivy or Count Vertigo. The rest of the IJ, from that screenshot, are Black Adam, Ultra-Humanite, and Wotan.

If the stars of your TV series lose too often, they seem incompetent. That's usually Writing 101. Of course, there are exceptions. The titular "INSPECTOR GADGET" often contributed so little to the plots of his episodes besides gags that some people have edited episodes that exclude him and focus on Penny, and the plots usually remain intact. Some have also claimed that when you think about it, Indiana Jones didn't accomplish a whole lot in "RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK". For the entire film, he sought to keep the Ark out of Nazi hands, yet he fails, which works out fine because it melted all their heads anyway. About all he did was ensure Marian survived and that a few extra Nazi got dead than usual. That didn't make it a worse film, of course. The casts of AVENGERS ACADEMY and to a degree the old NEW MUTANTS rarely had any outright wins; the young heroes usually survived more often than outright won, but it managed to work.

The risk of over-using the JL in this show is that while they're a key part of the show's universe and several members of the team are mentor figures to the cast, if they take over too much screen-time or can ALWAYS arrive in a crisis, then it ruins drama.

I mean it's a weird thing. I actually am anticipating this episode heavily, because it looks to be a good hero vs. villain throw down where everyone gets a moment and whatnot. In fact I'm probably looking forward to this episode more than I have the others lately. I think it'll rock regardless of whatever nitpicks I poke at. But then I still keep looking at the premise and wondering how the episode will handle it. The League (Batman especially) seem foolish or reckless sending in the Junior Squad against a team of their worst villains knowingly, and said team of worst villains will look stupid if they lose to the Junior Squad.

Again, for an example, there is NOTHING that Kid-Flash should be able to do that the Flash can't do better at this stage, so a villain who is prepared for Flash should have little trouble competing with his sidekick. Aside for cackling and wordplay, Robin doesn't offer much against Joker (or Poison Ivy) that he (and she) hasn't seen done better by Batman. What can Artemis show Count Vertigo that he hasn't seen from Green Arrow already? To the Injustice League, YJ should be like fighting the low rent knock offs of their enemies. And I don't mean to come down hard on the YJ cast, because I do like the characters and I do think the concept works. I prefer this approach than what "TEEN TITANS" did. Just the odd advantage of "TT" was that it deliberately made itself so simplistic that flaws became difficult to criticize because they were intentional parts of the universe - akin to complaining that "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" is too silly or campy, when it is DELIBERATELY so. "YOUNG JUSTICE" has taken a more serious and steady approach, which I prefer. It just sets the bar higher, is all.

The dilemma with being the sidekick to a mentor hero is that at least until said sidekick matures and becomes more defined, they really are just smaller versions of that hero. And that's fine when they're fighting oddball threats or single enemies, but against a team which in theory is used to fighting a squad of veteran Justice League members (especially the core 7, in all probability), that becomes a major handicap. Which means either YJ have to come up with some strategy to outwit the IJ, which makes the JL look stupid for not thinking of it (such as with AMAZO), or IJ have to job a little. There's always the element of surprise, and villains tending to underestimate teenagers, but that should only go so far. I'm not saying it's impossible for the episode's writers/producers to overcome these nitpicks - I was satisfied with how "HOME FRONT" was handled - I'm just addressing them.

It's just the nature of the beast. Sure, YJ may have Captain Marvel or whatever JL mentor of the week is with them, but that merely keeps Black Adam busy; he alone could destroy most teams of characters.

A future episode has Zatanna as a "new friend". Since Weisman shows rarely introduce major characters without build-up, maybe they meet her sooner, such as in this episode. Or some other additional guest character besides the mentor who can mix things up. I suppose Miss Martian could use her shape-shifting powers to pretend to be someone else for a while and catch the IJ off guard, but that assumes the group never assume Martian Manhunter is with whatever squad of Leaguers who challenge them. The ol' "switch opponents" trope with teams vs. teams should be employed at least once. Part of me is betting on seeing Superboy toss Joker or something.

Still, I suppose a threat like the Injustice League, who seem insurmountable for our lead heroes, is the sort of threat that usually works on these sorts of shows. If you can easily predict how the baddie will lose, than that's bad for superhero tales.

I expect some wisecrack about fighting two talking evil gorillas in a row from someone (Mallah last week, Ultra-Humanite here). I also wonder if Wotan, one of the most powerful evil wizards DC has, will bring up that awkward "Kid-Flash doesn't believe in magic" subplot. Yes, I've had people tell me "DENIAL" was more about Wally not seeing what is obvious rather than him not believing in magic - but the episode itself didn't make that clear and instead focused on him not believing in magic. I still find that an awkward non-romantic subplot idea for him. Say it gets resolved; Wally now believes in magic. Does it accomplish anything for him? No. Meanwhile, everyone else tends to have better subplots - Aqualad with his leadership issues and "father", Artemis with her own family issues, Megan with her own "is she a White Martian" past and so on.

Tidbit: Joker and Poison Ivy are the only DC villains who were actually in the Injustice League in the comics that're in it in this show, and neither were founders. The founding team had Catwoman and Penguin representing the Batman universe. Several other former comic book IJ members, though, have appeared on the show before.
 
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I 100% agree with you, on a lot of the points. However,

I disagree about the YJ can't lose to many times. I feel they could practically be saved every single episode save maybe 2-3 in the first season, and still come off as a dramatic show. As long as it shows they are learning and not making the same mistakes, it is showing growth setting up for a much more "clutch" YJ team in the second season.

And yeah they should be weaker. However, how many times was batman saved by Robin? Although I agree with you saying "they should be able to handle the lesser versions". I don't think it should be with ease and I don't think it should be all the time, much like when the side kick saves the main hero. Which does happen every so often in comics. It's just something to consider. As well, the dynamic of the team, is very much different. Who knows what the Injustice league knows about the YJ...it's kind of a wild card, strengths weaknesses are different not so refined as I believe the JL would have.

Screen time I think on a 22 minute show, I agree with you it's not a lot of time to work with, and hard to get enough story, so it's hard to justify putting the JL on a lot with a lot of screen time when the YJ are there and it's their show. However, this is also part of the DC Universe, so I wouldn't be surprised at all for an episode all focused on the league and there battles. E.g. Green Lantern Corps in DCAU: JL.

Now, what I don't understand is why it feels the necessity to add in more characters. Although I get it needs to evolve..I still don't think the current characters are developed yet, and that we'll probably get a Zatanna episode before we get an indepth robin or flash where you really see him grow into a better hero. Where as Zatanna I assume and I hope I'm wrong, will get an episode dedicated to basically her.

It's hard because this show is still relatively new and obviously a lot of these things will be answered in the episodes to come, and it does prove I do thoroughly enjoy this tv show. I just wish the way the episodes flowed as a whole were a little smoother, and had more of a direction as a whole. Note : this isn't to be mistaken as me not understanding that each show needs to be able to watched as a standalone.
 
The light is getting on my nerves, I might be the only person who watches that just doesnt give a crap about that storyline. I must say that I am greatly surprised by how much YJ needs the help of the adults when they are actually on a mission. I love Robin he's my favorite, but the way he reacted to Kaldur keeping a secret, reaffirms that he is not ready to be a leader.
 
Young Justice is being so awesome. Brent Spiner's Joker is incredibly crepy and Alyssa Miolano makes a good Poison Ivy, like how much Justice League was shown and 2 awesome cameos included! Really loved Steven Blum's Count Vertigo, so charismatic and powerful, ending was great as the Light reveals itself!
 
My God this episode was great the best thus far love seeing the League in action and all of the cameos. Greg Weisman wasn't kidding when he said this is the episode when the season starts to pick up. Oh yeah and the freaking Light is fully revealed!!! This episode stays true to it's title.
 
Young Justice is being so awesome. Brent Spiner's Joker is incredibly crepy and Alyssa Miolano makes a good Poison Ivy, like how much Justice League was shown and 2 awesome cameos included! Really loved Steven Blum's Count Vertigo, so charismatic and powerful, ending was great as the Light reveals itself!

How did you guess the first two voice actors so fast?

But yeah, that was pretty awesome, especially the reveal.....even though I guessed the entire roster correctly months ago! :oldrazz:
 
I hate the stupid knife-wielding Joker that's come about because of TDK. It's never been even a part of his character before that movie. but now ZOMG IT HAS TO BE EVERYWHERE BECAUSE IT WAS SO POPULAR.
 
Thanks Sly Gamer Ratchet Racoony. <3
 
There were tons of DCU cameos. I love Guy Gardner's design. Some went b so fast, thought that I couldn't even tell who they were.
 
Episode 14 had cameos from several new heroes: Blue Devil, Green Lantern (Guy Gardener), Plastic Man, Rocket, and Icon.

Rocket was on the YJ playing cards from San Diego Comic Con 2011, and with Zatanna's appearance next episode, everyone from the cards has at least had a cameo in the series. Though be important enough to get a card I suspect Rocket will have another appearance.
 
was Rocket the chick who was glowing pink? I've never heard of her. and Icon? they could've used better characters.
 
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