Young Justice Cartoon - Part 2

[Prison Mike]

Good episode. Was not a big fan of this version of the Joker. Didn't know Alyssa Milano voiced Poison Ivy! t:

 

[Secret Fawful]

Damn it, what's the name of the episode. Also, glad to hear Steve Blum's in on the action now.

 

[Prison Mike]

"Revelations"

 

[Secret Fawful]

Thanks.

 

[EML420]

The Joker the way he looks is fine but I wish they could have gotten the guy from under the red hood movie to voice him but oh well.

I really like the character designs in this series much better than the cartoon DCU and didnt Superboy have superspeed like to a degree in the first episode?
I also find it odd that Superman treats Superboy like a basterd child.

 

[twylight]

The Justice League scenes were for sure my favorites.

Spoiler

Captain Atom was AWESOME! I totally fangirled out over the Star City gang. I'm a total Arrow Family/BC fangirl and then Guy Gardner? And Ollie and Dinah so close together at the end... so old school.

It was fun seeing Captain Marvel do something 'Supermanish' instead of them just using Superman. Also the space toss: Such a simple solution.

And Zatara? AND PLASTIC MAN? Why can't they make a Justice League cartoon with this line up already?

But again, another cover mission for rookies. Like.. What? Totally did not see the helmet of fate twist. It left me Artemis kicking ass with no bows and arrows? pretty epic. Her hair is off the chain though.

The Light reveal was worth it, although I'd already guess a few of the major one like Lex, Ras and Vandal would be on it.

I was fine with Brent Spiner's voice. I actually like it as an acceptable replacement for Hamill. However I noticed the dialogue for all the villains were lacking. Even Ivy had some super silly lines.

Love Steven Blum, I don't generally follow voice actors, but he's done so much I recognized him right away.

I liked most of the redesigns but I can't really complain to much about them. Wasn't a fan of the lines on Ivy though.

I didn't find Artemis' comment too subtle, and Aqualad's response was a surprise given his serious nature. I'm really questioning Artemis' virginity after this episode, sure she was shown to be a flirt before, but her most recent innuendo takes it up a step. Although being on CN I doubt anything explicit will ever be revealed. Innuendo will probably be as far as the show will take it.

Artemis has always come off as the more worldy-wise of the team, so her not having virginity isn't something that would shock me. The innuendo was par for the course in my view of her.

 

[Superman 1265]

I liked the episode, didn't like that the Joker's personality was similar to TDK's version of the Joker. I'm one of the few people that strongly disliked Ledger's Joker.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Wow, he did suck. In every way imaginable. Which sucks because I know Spiner can do a better Joker than that.

 

[Kane52630]

Great episode, probably my 2nd favorite of the season. The only thing I disliked about it was everything about the Joker. I wish they got Bryan Cranston to voice the Joker.

[YT]RFq-nJtgxz4[/YT]

 

[mr. peasant]

But seriously, though... I think this Joker-hate is a bit overblown. After all, he wasn't the focus of the episode, nor was he meant to be its main villain/threat (that would be Wotan). So naturally, the amount of attention and effort put into him by the production team (including casting) would be equal to that of any other villain. As it is, what we got is a guy who seems to have multiple personalities who seem to talk to one another (as seen in the 'Retributionable' line and the different pitches/voices we hear from him).

Also, for people wondering why Batman would send a group of partially-trained heroes after the Injustice League instead of a group of heavier hitters, a thought just crossed my mind: Perhaps he had sent them as a distraction to buy the League time to contain the more imminent threat? Indeed, it's through the team's actions that the Count Vertigo and co. were distracted long enough for the League to sneak up on them (their hideout seemed quite well fortified and defended when the team first arrived). It had simply been a gambit with Batman counting on the villains underestimating the team instead of pulling out all the stops and finishing them off quickly. This is sort of hinted at when he commented on the team's performance as still being 'satisfactory' despite being unable to apprehend the villains on their own. He had not expected them to.

 

[FinalAvalanche]

Anybody else wondering if Wally is going to have his arm in a cast next episode? Or his arm might be just fine next episode, just like Superboy's hair went back to normal after the "Terrors" episode.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Was his arm actually broken? seemed just like a sprain or something to me, nothing major.

 

[Dread]

Episode 14, "REVELATIONS", brings "YOUNG JUSTICE" officially into the second half of its freshman season. The premise is fairly simple on the surface; Young Justice taking on the Injustice League in a battle with the world in the balance. Beneath the surface, however, there were a smattering of cameos from both B, C, and D level heroes and villains abound, as well as references to several previous episodes, such as "DROP ZONE", "DENIAL", "TERRORS", and last week's "ALPHA MALE". It also is the episode in which "The Light" are identified fully, which will likely set up the last half of the season.

Spoiler

The episode starts off with a bang; a giant plant-monster bursts from the ground in Metropolis, threatening both cops, vehicles, and dog-walkers alike. Before anyone can scream, "Tentacoo wape", similar plant-monsters emerge in cities worldwide, as a coordinated attack by the self proclaimed Injustice League: Count Vertigo (Steven Jay Blum), Poison Ivy (Alyssa Milano), Wotan, Black Adam, Ultra-Humanite, Atomic Skull, and of course, the Joker (Brent Spiner). May as well get into the performances now. As usual for a WB production, they're able to get quite notable actors for what are apparently guest appearance roles. Weisman's involvement also means some more "ST:TNG" reunions since he apparently likes the actors from that series; they keep popping up in shows he produces. Blum uses a similar voice for Vertigo as he used for Red Skull in the "A:EMH" mini-episodes, which is fine. I hadn't heard Milano voice anything since "THE SPECTRE" animated short a year or so back, and she did alright; I've heard better for Ivy, but nothing horrendous. Naturally, all the focus is on Spiner's Joker, as that's one of those bad guy roles which seems to be the heaviest. On the whole, I didn't care for it. I've heard worse for the Joker, but Spiner almost seemed to be channeling a bit of Keanu Reeves at times with his lines, which seemed awkward. But the Joker as written was himself an odd character. He was definitely crazy, but neither "over the top" crazy nor "scary crazy". To be honest, Green Goblin came off far nuttier in "TSSM". He did have a few good lines, but this wasn't one of the Joker's best outings. But to a degree I didn't mind, because this was one of few appearances by him that he didn't hog. Count Vertigo, Wotan, and Ivy had just as much if not more to do in this episode than he did. Ultra-Humanite, Black Adam and Atomic Skull had no lines beyond SFX gorilla growls or ADR grunts. This was likely because SAG rules limit TV episodes to having 13 credited VA's, and this episode alone was bordering on 11-12. However, each actor is allowed to voice up to 3-5 characters, which is why actors like Blum and Nolan North get steady work in the biz.

The aforementioned North stars as Conner Kent/Superboy, but also voiced the guest Leaguer of the week, Zatara the Magician - best known as the father of Zatanna. Bruce Greenwood, naturally, is getting a bit of work as Batman between this show and "BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD". Robin and Aqualad are sparring, as the team assembles at varying speeds. They note how Conner and Megan are obviously a couple to them, but neither Wally or Artemis seem to have noticed. While Wally's crush on Megan has been frequent and obvious, aside for that one episode where Artemis thought Superboy was hot, that's been barely mentioned. Captain Marvel is still there, and snacking on Wally's candy bars (and has no lines). When the plant-monsters attack, Joker and the rest of the Injustice Gang do the whole "Bond villain" schtick and set up a worldwide random demand to the United Nations of $10 billion USD. However, rather than send them after the plants in one or two cities, Batman and Zatara send them off to locate the source of the plant threat and to shut it down. Zatara quickly realizes that this means sending them right after the IJ, but Batman feels they're ready. I talked a lot about this, but even knowing where this episode ends, Batman does come off a bit cold here. He clearly knew Joker was involved and thought nothing of throwing the kids at him. It came very close to backfiring later. However, while Batman is ever the tactician, Aqualad had a "Plan B" of his own. Megan's living ship also gets some bit to do here, and Conner's pet Wolf is not just a mascot like Wheel, but a fighting member of the team. Thankfully, he doesn't talk, or look as cutesy as the last animal that was considered a member of a super-team, Ms. Lion.

So the kids zip off to the bayous of Louisiana, the location of the Injustice Gang and the super-plant at the center of it all. Via a quick exposition dump, the "Cobra-Venom" which Sportsmaster escaped Santa Prisca with in "DROP ZONE" was utilized by the Brain in "ALPHA MALE" and has been shown to have been used by the Injustice League here. Thus, Robin and the rest of the heroes assume they're the "secret society" in charge of all the shenanigans this season - which is untrue, of course. Almost immediately, Megan's ship is brought down and the kids are set upon by the baddies - Vertigo and Adam in particular. Thankfully, the Injustice League decide for some odd reason not to outright kill the intruders, instead capturing them in Wotan's magic cage as captives, allowing Megan and Robin to escape and settle the real purpose of the mission - destroying the super-plant. They manage to get past Ivy and Ultra-Humanite to do so; it is worth mentioning that unlike Vertigo, Adam, and Wotan, these two were perfectly willing to execute Robin and Megan outright after initially capturing them - they simply escaped and fled before that could occur. Joker was also naturally eager and willing to kill anyone who crossed him. So, not all of the Injustice League are morons, just about half of them. Ivy's super-plant (a creation grown from her skills, Cobra-Venom, Wotan's magic and Atomic Skull's radiation, which was somehow cybernetically controlled by Joker) is blown up, but this leaves the YJ to fight the IJ for a bit. Despite losing her bow again (and almost getting drowned a third mission in a row), Artemis gets in some kicks with some assistance. The battle begins to quickly turn against the kids, especially when Wotan takes off the kid gloves with magic. Enter "Plan B" - the HELMET OF FATE. As Aqualad mentions to Wotan, he's had magical training himself, and when he's merged with Nabu, he's far more powerful as Dr. Fate than Wally was in "DENIAL".

In the end, however, it all turns out to be a literal "Batman Gambit", as just as the Injustice League seems about to land some finishing blows, the rest of the Justice League assemble around them, having mopped up the now uncoordinated plant monsters. Joker makes a last ditch effort to kill everyone with Joker Gas (which he'd mixed with the plants), but Dr. AquaFate sucks it up. Essentially, Batman's plan was for Young Justice to at least destroy the focal point for the plant monsters and then survive against the Injustice League long enough for Batman & Zatara to lead the cavalry to the bayou. Which they did...only because half the IJ were morons who don't immediately execute captured intruders. Of course, the difference between a "Batman Gambit" and a "Xanatos Gambit" is there is always some sort of unpredictability in play and a risk of failure. Thankfully, Aqualad is released by Nabu, the baddies are captured and everyone wins - including "The Light", who got to test their plant-monster and throw everyone off their scent. They stand revealed as Vandal Savage, Queen Bee, Lex Luthor, Ra's Al Ghul, Klarion The Witch Boy, The Brain, and Ocean Master (likely Aqualad's brother Orm from "DOWNTIME"). The immortal Savage seems to clearly be in charge of the cabal, which is a good choice to keep from spamming with Luthor and Ra's as some shows have done. Luthor got a lot to do in "S:TAS", "JL" and "JLU", after all.

Overall, this was a great episode - one of the best of Season 1. There was a lot of action, a lot of over the top superhero stuff, and enough cameos to entertain anyone with a WHO'S WHO OF THE DCU in their hands. Aside for Batman, Zatara, and Capt. Marvel, we got a great look at the full roster of this show's Justice League. That included John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, Plastic Man, Black Canary, Blue Devil (!), Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom, as well as two MILESTONE heroes, Icon and Rocket. Essentially, if you want any minority superheroes who aren't Vixen or terribly stereotypical characters like Vibe and Gypsy, or legacies, you HAVE to dip into MILESTONE. While Blue Devil is still a very odd choice, his design here was pretty good - sort of a more passive Hellboy. It is nice to see some of these characters outside "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD", and it is worth mention that this show is going out of it's way to have every Green Lantern that isn't Hal Jordan show up often - it is if they know he's the one who isn't as well known as Stewart or as interesting as Guy. He's boring, and that's why he doesn't sell to mainstream audiences. They've moved past the time when emotionless squared jawed types like Flash Gordon amused them. While there was plenty to amuse a first time viewer, this episode naturally weaves into the tapestry of the subplot in several ways.

Nitpicks? Joker was uninspiring, overall. Glad he didn't hog, and I've seen worse, but Spiner seemed miscast, and the lines weren't that great. Probably the best one he had was when he was fighting Robin and hissed that he'd "always wanted to carve that bird". It almost seemed like Joker was TRYING too hard to be spooky and funny instead of BEING so. His tacky sideburns made him seem like someone LUPIN THE THIRD should be fighting. While Kid-Flash actually got a lot of dialogue - more than Superboy for once - he also didn't do a whole lot either. About the best thing he did was spin Vertigo around so Artemis could land a jump-kick on him. I did put a lot of thought into the premise of this episode, and while it did fall into some pits I'd rather it avoid, it still was solid entertainment. Those pitfalls? Batman came off as cold by throwing the kids at "high powered villains" like these, especially since not even he could have predicted that a team with Joker and Ivy on it wouldn't have executed any of them if things went bad. Also, the Justice League once again swept in when all hope seemed lost, like they did in "HOME FRONT", or like Batman did in "DOWNTIME". The dilemma this poses is it shattered even the illusion of suspense. Now unless an episode deliberately and specifically mentions that all SIXTEEN members of the Justice League and any potential guest stars are somehow off world or incapacitated, there's never any risk of the YJ actually dying or being hurt in a mission. This normally wouldn't be a big deal for many a show on Cartoon Network, but this isn't a show played for many laughs; it puffs its chest about how moody and mature it is. Weisman teased that a member of the cast wouldn't survive the first season back when it debuted; I still say that's going to be Red Tornado, the Amazing Exploding Hero. Seriously, he blows up all the time. I've yet to see him appear in a show or comic long enough and not get blown apart.

At any rate, "YOUNG JUSTICE" is a show that wants to be taken seriously because of how any of its cast could be wiped out in a mission for real, while setting up a world where that is almost impossible because some adult Leaguer will always be there to beam in and save them. The tagger of the show is, "don't call them sidekicks", yet Batman put them on a very sidekick mission; "distract the bad guys and turn off their Dues Ex Machina so we can mop them up". It was a support mission, just told from the POV of the support team. Which was interesting, but I could imagine Red Arrow poking at it. Speaking of which, he also had a cameo defending a bridge with Green Arrow and Black Canary, and while he had no dialogue, it did at least show that while he's all angst and independence, he's willing to unite against the adult heroes he despises when a real crisis is involved. Just like he does care about the cast of YJ, he just don't show it unless he needs a favor. There's a decent guy inside Speedy somewhere, under all his anger and brooding, I guess.

Shippers will naturally attach to those scenes with Artemis and Kid-Flash, and boy howdy were they a little hot and cold. Artemis does the whole "punch the spazz in the arm" thing at the start when Wally is being a bit slow witted as to Batman's plan. Scenes like those are usually why I don't buy him as "the genius" of the show. You can't design an EMP one episode and not figure out simple stuff the next without it seeming awkward. I don't know why they didn't just keep Wally as "the funny one" and have Robin as the brains who can figure out all the science stuff. Instead Robin is smart with tactics and computers but Wally will occasionally get in the science exposition. I suppose the only major example of someone like Wally is usually Mr. Fantastic from the FF; a guy who can match wits with Galactus and unravel the secrets of the universe, but is too ****ing stupid to realize assembling all of his worst enemies in a room will go VERY BADLY and offend some in his family. The lesson is, I guess, is the smarter someone is, the dumber they are. More to the point, we have Kid-Flash yelling the macho-man, "LEAVE HER ALONE!" line at the female of his subplot, only unlike Superboy, he doesn't get a chance to back it up. He runs HEAD FIRST into Vertigo's attack on one occasion. As for Artemis, later on in the episode she hands Wally a breathing device for underwater (which stunned even him) and helped bandage his arm when he was injured later in the mission. The "punch the spazz in the arm" bit is a bit that somehow only is used when its among two boys, or sometimes two girls, or from a girl to a boy. You'd never see a boy "playfully" hitting a girl in the arm used as anything comedic. But I got into gender roles in TV before; violence against men can he used for drama and for laughs, while violence against women is usually always a TERRIBLE AWFUL THING, likely because in real life they're the victims of most assaults and crimes. More women die every year worldwide than all the adult men in every war in the 20th century combined, supposedly. Naturally, reasons such as this are why only Artemis or Megan could be allowed to hurt Ivy. We also got probably one of the riskiest lines yet from Artemis when she saw she'd one again lost her bow and arrows and claimed she "felt naked, and not in a fun way". I suppose some will look at her helping Wally as a sign of their "relationship", but I don't see one. After "BEREFT", I think Wally thinks she's hot, but Artemis sees him as a little brother who needs some razzing and protection. And why not? Wolf was more useful in this mission than he was. Wally had a lot of lines and character beats in this episode, but he wasn't very useful in the actual fight; an archer without her archery surpassed him. He's a sidekick among sidekicks. But, character beats are cool. I just don't buy any idea of Wally and Artemis being a couple aside for the Powers That Be deciding to hitch them because. I can buy Wally at least thinking Artemis is hot; he hits on anything with boobs - even a feminized version of himself - and it was only his bias of Artemis replacing Speedy that prevented him from doing so with her. But what's he got to offer Artemis from her perspective? Nothing. He's more useless and clueless than she is, and I don't see that turning her on. I can see Artemis treating Wally as a kid brother, as she was the little sister in her original household. She's not a mother hen with endless patience like Megan is with Superboy - and at least Superboy is able to defend somebody in a fight or smash a wall. In "TEEN TITANS", Terra seemed interested in the equally useless Beast Boy because he genuinely made her laugh, and maybe because she sympathized with him as an outcast. Even Robin, who is younger than her, at least is someone she could lean on for support. If she ever sees anything in Wally, its because he's so useless that she won't feel intimidated or helpless around him. Artemis would never have to fret about her skills being ineffective alongside Kid-Flash. They'd be equals, if only because Wally is a terrible speedster and she's an efficient archer and martial artist.

I still wish the show would put Artemis with Aqualad, because he was awesome once again here. The only thing hindering him is that bit from "DROP ZONE" where Aqualad claimed he was merely filling the leader spot until Robin was ready to take it, because that's spineless and borderline offensive if you think about it. No, Aqualad's earning his role and right as leader here. He naturally coordinated the mission and was willing to risk his body to Nabu if all else failed. He naturally was a better Dr. Fate than Wally was because he'd had magical training. Aqualad and Artemis could be a bad ass, "A" named blond battle couple; Artemis providing the humor and spunk, Aqualad the firm foundation of support.

This episode, in a way, also showcases how "DENIAL" was a plot that could have been attached to any character. Sure, Kent Nelson knew Wally and sacrificed his heaven to free him from the helmet until a full time replacement was found, and Aqualad mentioned that here. But Kent would have done that for ANY kid who'd been in Wally's shoes. Tell me how this episode would have been any different had, say, any other member of the YJ team besides Wally or Kaldur been possessed by Nabu in "DENIAL". It wouldn't have been. Thus, my criticism of that episode stands; it was a random plot thrown at Wally because the writers had nothing else for him to be involved with besides potential shipping with Artemis, or throwing hearts at Megan. You could involve ANY character in a "doesn't believe in magic until it bites them" plot, really. Even outright magicians like Dr. Strange have had those plots in their origins or token amnesia stories. For the record, Wally makes no noises about not believing in magic again. He doesn't nitpick Zatara or Woten, and showed immediate concern for Kaldur after he dons the HELMET OF FATE, accepting the risk of magical possession literally. What has Wally gained from no longer being in denial? Nothing. Thus, it was a useless subplot. It's only worth was introducing Klarion for "The Light", which, again, any YJ member could have been involved in.

This episode had the return of "Hel-LO, Megan", but Robin ditched his wordplay, so there's that. His "Timber," line was perfectly subtle. Superboy's anti-monkey phobia against Ultra-Humanite was well placed. I suppose having the YJ merely stall the IJ rather than outright defeat them was the better way to handle it, from a writing perspective, to avoid having the villains appear weak.

Despite the nitpicks, again, "REVELATION" was a great episode. While there are some hiccups to this series, and the characters are still having difficulty escaping from their trope roles, "YOUNG JUSTICE" is hitting a stride in it's second half. It isn't the success that "TSSM" was, but it's already stronger than "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" was at this stage by a mile.

 

[Anubis]

I'm pretty sure Robin and Aqualad were talking about Wally and Artemis being a couple and not knowing it.

 

[Dread]

I'm pretty sure Robin and Aqualad were talking about Wally and Artemis being a couple and not knowing it.

You could interpret it both ways. Wally was obviously flirting with Megan many times, and Artemis was attracted to Superboy, although to a less obsessive degree. Wally is oblivious to "Meganboy", and I'm not sure how Artemis feels about being out of the running for Conner right now. I think she's more focused on the missions and efficiency than relationships.

Robin thought they were like "an old married couple" in "BEREFT", but he's 13, and raised by Bruce Wayne; what does HE know about relationships? Batman is a guy who literally passes up easy sex with Wonder Woman, who could take on his ENTIRE ROGUES GALLERY EN MASSE and defeat them, easily.

I know from an objective, story writing perspective that the show is trying to attach Artemis and Wally together. The problem is I don't see them as a very organic couple because I don't see what Artemis would possibly see in him, as I detail above. Wally normally hits on anything with boobs - even a feminized version of himself - but didn't do so with Artemis because he was initially insulted that Green Arrow and the League sought to "replace" his pal Speedy. That ended in "BEREFT" when he was hit with the AMNESIA BEAM and came away from it realizing Artemis was hot. So, he has a reason. But where's Artemis' reason? Sure, I suppose Wally is cute (as a straight man, I don't always know which guys are hot as I don't judge them that way), but so is Aqualad and she's not into him for some reason. From what I have seen of their interaction, Artemis sees Wally as at worst a spazz, and at best a little brother type she has to occasionally tend to. Megan is the nurturer of the group, which is why she's into the clearly damaged Superboy, trying to mend him and so on. So we have a guy into a girl who thinks he's a spazz. I don't see that as a workable relationship.

Again, I think Artemis and Aqualad would work a lot better as a couple. Artemis has the spunk and sense of humor that Aqualad doesn't. And Aqualad has the stoic efficiency and calm temper that Artemis needs after her mess of a family life - he's stable and reliable. Both of them are capable of fighting long range and close contact. They're both very adaptable. Plus, both of them have villains for fathers - only Artemis knows it and Aqualad doesn't. THEY would work as a couple.

I think Robin is too young for Artemis despite being in the same school as she is; 13 and 16 is pretty gross. But even if they went there in an "AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER" way, I could even see that working. Despite being younger, Robin has a lot more experience. He's got a similar sense of spunk as Artemis, and she actually revealed her soft underbelly with him in "HOME FRONT". They also are both human and thus they rely on similar tactics. I could see THEM working as a couple.

Artemis and Wally? It's only in the discussion because we can all see the text arrows throwing them together, from the HELMET OF FATE telling them to AMNESIA BEAMS being used to get them to talk to each other. If I used such blunt techniques in a story, I could attach Superman to Catwoman as a couple, or Red Skull and Firebird, or so on. It isn't something I see as very organic without the story arrows. At best I see it as one sided now, because Wally is into her. I don't see what Artemis would possibly see in him or why she'd bother, honestly. She often pokes at Wally's foibles, rather than blushing about them or being concerned for them as Megan is for Superboy. The only way I see it working is in a "KIM POSSIBLE" sort of way - in which a perfectly competent, confident, Type A butt kicking girl, for some reason, decides to date a spastic, completely useless comic relief guy who spends most of his missions skidding across the ground. It's like someone dating Xander in "BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER", or Jimmy Olson in SUPERMAN. Seriously, what's to like in a useless guy who loses just about every fight he's in, in an ACTION SERIES? It works if the girl wants a guy they feel they can control or won't try to dominate them with their presence, but that only goes so far.

This was a great episode overall. Kid-Flash here had a sort of interesting dynamic. He got a lot of lines and a few character beats, but he didn't really do anything useful. At the very least, it wasn't because he genuinely fouled up - although running head-first into Vertigo's beam when he could have TRIED to avoid it is a bit thick headed. I don't see what Artemis would see in him that would appeal to her, and that's where I think it doesn't work. I mean, she completely fell apart in "HOME FRONT"...and STILL was more useful than he was here! I can see what Wally sees in her; she's cute and Kent Nelson suggested the best person to date is someone who endlessly belittles you (in so many words). I simply fail to see what in him would make Artemis attracted beyond the writers just having her act like his girlfriend for no reason.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Again, I think Artemis and Aqualad would work a lot better as a couple. Artemis has the spunk and sense of humor that Aqualad doesn't. And Aqualad has the stoic efficiency and calm temper that Artemis needs after her mess of a family life - he's stable and reliable. Both of them are capable of fighting long range and close contact. They're both very adaptable. Plus, both of them have villains for fathers - only Artemis knows it and Aqualad doesn't. THEY would work as a couple.

Speaking of that, what did you think of Aqualad's unintentionally flirty response to Artemis's "naked" line.

 

[mr. peasant]

Spoiler

Shippers will naturally attach to those scenes with Artemis and Kid-Flash, and boy howdy were they a little hot and cold. Artemis does the whole "punch the spazz in the arm" thing at the start when Wally is being a bit slow witted as to Batman's plan. Scenes like those are usually why I don't buy him as "the genius" of the show. You can't design an EMP one episode and not figure out simple stuff the next without it seeming awkward. I don't know why they didn't just keep Wally as "the funny one" and have Robin as the brains who can figure out all the science stuff. Instead Robin is smart with tactics and computers but Wally will occasionally get in the science exposition.

Clearly you've not heard about the Absent-Minded Professor trope. Pay special attention to the real-life anecdotes - proof that book smarts does not equal common sense.

Spoiler

I still wish the show would put Artemis with Aqualad, because he was awesome once again here. The only thing hindering him is that bit from "DROP ZONE" where Aqualad claimed he was merely filling the leader spot until Robin was ready to take it, because that's spineless and borderline offensive if you think about it. No, Aqualad's earning his role and right as leader here. He naturally coordinated the mission and was willing to risk his body to Nabu if all else failed. He naturally was a better Dr. Fate than Wally was because he'd had magical training. Aqualad and Artemis could be a bad ass, "A" named blond battle couple; Artemis providing the humor and spunk, Aqualad the firm foundation of support.

I don't think combat compatibility or as a reward for being awesome are a good basis for a romantic relationship. That's not quite how it works. Compare that to Superboy/Megan where he likes her because she genuinely makes him a better person (certainly, less angsty). And as for her... guess Superboy can bench press her all day (and no, that's not a euphemism for the activities of two hormonal teens living together in a largely unsupervised house).

Spoiler

Nitpicks? Joker was uninspiring, overall. Glad he didn't hog, and I've seen worse, but Spiner seemed miscast, and the lines weren't that great. Probably the best one he had was when he was fighting Robin and hissed that he'd "always wanted to carve that bird". It almost seemed like Joker was TRYING too hard to be spooky and funny instead of BEING so. His tacky sideburns made him seem like someone LUPIN THE THIRD should be fighting. While Kid-Flash actually got a lot of dialogue - more than Superboy for once - he also didn't do a whole lot either. About the best thing he did was spin Vertigo around so Artemis could land a jump-kick on him. I did put a lot of thought into the premise of this episode, and while it did fall into some pits I'd rather it avoid, it still was solid entertainment. Those pitfalls? Batman came off as cold by throwing the kids at "high powered villains" like these, especially since not even he could have predicted that a team with Joker and Ivy on it wouldn't have executed any of them if things went bad. Also, the Justice League once again swept in when all hope seemed lost, like they did in "HOME FRONT", or like Batman did in "DOWNTIME". The dilemma this poses is it shattered even the illusion of suspense. Now unless an episode deliberately and specifically mentions that all SIXTEEN members of the Justice League and any potential guest stars are somehow off world or incapacitated, there's never any risk of the YJ actually dying or being hurt in a mission. This normally wouldn't be a big deal for many a show on Cartoon Network, but this isn't a show played for many laughs; it puffs its chest about how moody and mature it is. Weisman teased that a member of the cast wouldn't survive the first season back when it debuted; I still say that's going to be Red Tornado, the Amazing Exploding Hero. Seriously, he blows up all the time. I've yet to see him appear in a show or comic long enough and not get blown apart.

Regarding the League's intervention, I think this is a special circumstance. They can only help if they are aware that the team is in need of help; as seen in Home Front where the battle went on for a long period and the League unaware of what was going on until towards the end. Here, the League would certainly be aware that the team was outmatched going in. Plus, it's only natural for them to converge at the source of the problem. Had the League showed up to intervene while the team had been fighting the plants at a random site instead, then I would say you have a point.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I apologize if this was posted already, but Greg just revealed the titles for the rest of season one episodes:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13553

115 - "Humanity"
116 - "Failsafe"
117 - "Disordered"
118 - "Secrets"
119 - "Misplaced"
120 - "Coldhearted"
121 - "Image"
122 - "Agendas"
123 - "Insecurity"
124 - "Performance"
125 - "Usual Suspects"
126 - "Auld Acquaintance"

 

[FinalAvalanche]

For people wondering why some villains are willing to kill The Team and others aren't, Greg Weisman revealed that the characters of YJ have an entire range of morality from white to gray to black and everything in between. Also since Black Adam used to be a hero, he may still have some heroic ideals.

 

[Dread]

Speaking of that, what did you think of Aqualad's unintentionally flirty response to Artemis's "naked" line.

"I feel naked, and not in a fun way."

"We will make our own fun, as we have been trained!"

I thought it was cute, but I'm not expecting these two to go anywhere. The show's been too obvious about the Kid-Flash route for her. But, who knows. Maybe the show is willing to waste all that screen-time having Wally attach to two ladies who end up with other people within one season.

I stand by my earlier statements. I feel that objectively the show is setting up Artemis and Kid-Flash to attach. In terms of characters, though, they don't gell well or have much to offer each other. Pairing her with Aqualad would bring out more in both characters, I feel, and it wouldn't have to involve elements such as Wally falling for a girl who doesn't really like him, or Artemis dating a guy she feels is a spazz. I can buy Wally going after Artemis because she's hot. I can't buy Artemis settling on Wally. Especially after she revealed her most tender and vulnerable side to Robin.

Clearly you've not heard about the Absent-Minded Professor trope. Pay special attention to the real-life anecdotes - proof that book smarts does not equal common sense.

I know about that Trope, hence why I said this:

The lesson is, I guess, is the smarter someone is, the dumber they are.

And I also mention Mr. Fantastic from the FANTASTIC FOUR/FF, who is still the reigning king of this trope in Marvel. This latest arc he was in had him be literally surprised when inviting a room full of his worst enemies to try to handle a threat by evil alternate versions of himself would go wrong, even when it was obvious to...everyone, really.

The problem is, though, is that Kid-Flash only has those "scientist" aspects when it is required for the plot. He has enough of it to lay out exposition when we need DNA or an EMP to be explained, but he never actually utilizes it in any efficient way for himself. He never invents anything, or uses it for his own use in a fight. In fact, both times we've seen him lay out his smarts, Wally is basically using it to help someone else be awesome. Explaining DNA stuff to Robin, helping Robin and Artemis build that EMP, even getting past Brain's shield in "ALPHA MALE" (in which Artemis once again made one of her archery shots). Absent minded professor types work best as supporting characters or characters who avoid action; Wally wears a spandex costume and goes into the fisticuffs with anything else.

In superhero universes, science knowledge is useful for building things. Virtually every smart superhero character you know builds gadgets or plot convenient serums or contraptions, from Batman to Mr. Fantastic to Spider-Man to Robin and so on. Wally doesn't do that, ever. Even Donatello from the TMNT franchise, whose science knowledge is often used as a plot device in similar ways, was usually always inventing gadgets - especially in animated adaptations. So Wally is bright, but his smarts are only useful for other characters to get to look cool. You see the problem I have here? He could easily build gadgets for himself to utilize as a hero, much like Robin does. Wally doesn't, and why? Is it that "speedsters who are efficient ruin suspenseful stories" edict with Western cartoons?

The annoying thing? Even if Kid-Flash DID use his speedster powers well, the Injustice Gang offered some villains who that would be useless against. Sure, he probably could have owned Joker, Ivy, Atomic Skull or maybe Humanite, but Black Adam and Wotan wouldn't be fazed much. Here was a perfect chance to have the best of both bits - showcase his powers and have him be unable to instantly unravel the plot with them - and the episode balked. I mean this wasn't a deal breaker for the episode - Wally had a lot of dialogue and character beats. He just didn't do much. In fact, he has yet to actually defeat (or even challenge) any named opponent aside for Blood Spider in "INFILTRATOR" - and Wally had to allow himself to become bound in webbing and need assistance to do so. That was also the episode where he slipped on marbles and nearly drowned in a pool.

Kid-Flash is sort of a frustrating character in this series. He's upbeat, funny, and let's call a spade a spade and is smarter than he appears, at times. However, he hardly knows how to use his own powers well, he's lost or been ineffective against any battle that wasn't against nameless henchmen or mutated birds, and he doesn't use his science knowledge to better himself or make himself a better hero. He's the weakest link on the team, who needs to be carried in virtually every mission he's in, but Wally still saw himself as leadership potential. He isn't in "denial" anymore. He's aware magic is real. This didn't change a thing about his outlook. So, Wally gets to be "the brains" of the team, without enjoying ANY of the perks of that role, which is usually that they often get to make cool stuff. Instead he just helps other people build stuff or do cool stuff with it, while he runs head-first into vertigo beams. Wally seems to fit more into the role of "comic relief" than "brains" on this team.

I don't think combat compatibility or as a reward for being awesome are a good basis for a romantic relationship. That's not quite how it works. Compare that to Superboy/Megan where he likes her because she genuinely makes him a better person (certainly, less angsty). And as for her... guess Superboy can bench press her all day (and no, that's not a euphemism for the activities of two hormonal teens living together in a largely unsupervised house).

Megan likes Superboy because I think she enjoys helping him. Like many psychic empathic girls, such as Jean Grey or Emma Frost, an introverted, angst ridden angry loner guy who has 6 pack abs is apparently their desired mate. Many girls seem to like latching onto guys they think they can "fix" and make them more ideal, and psychic girls tend to take this to an extra degree. While Megan doesn't need Conner to protect her like "a 50's sitcom boyfriend", knowing he has her back when she needs it is likely helpful. Conner has feelings, more than he lets on, but he hides them because they're new to him too; for an empath, that is likely an added challenge. And, of course, they're both horny teenagers.

Aqualad seems to be a better fit for Artemis to me because he is efficient as a hero as well as offers a more stable foundation. She could also bring out some fun in him, and likely relate to him whenever he finds out who Black Manta really is in his life. They have a lot more in common. I could see a conversation between the two getting deep and interesting.

Wally, however, really offers nothing to Artemis that she seems to desire. He isn't reliable, or stable. Wally comes from a proud legacy and in no way could relate to a broken home or having a baddie for a father. Artemis does not appreciate his sense of humor and is often irritated by his general cluelessness. At best Wally seems like something of a kid brother, someone who needs her eternal guidance and support. Their interactions always come down to predictable bickering and I don't see them leading elsewhere because they have so little in common aside for being on the same team. "HOME FRONT" showed us that Artemis does have a bit of a bravado as a defense mechanism from her broken home life, which comes off as a chip on her shoulder. Wally, however, is arrogant with no reason for being so - he can't back up any of his chest-puffing. Wally's either ridden on the Flash legacy or his peers in team-up's his entire career, and BOY does it show. Objectively, I know why the writers are teasing the two - they want a more chaotic couple to counter "Meganboy", and a couple that bickers all the time is a good counter to that, and provides ore for one-liners.

Had Donna Troy - the original Wonder Girl - been included in the founding team, she likely would have been more of a match for Wally. She also comes from a legacy, trained by a mentor exclusively, and was usually more upbeat.

Regarding the League's intervention, I think this is a special circumstance. They can only help if they are aware that the team is in need of help; as seen in Home Front where the battle went on for a long period and the League unaware of what was going on until towards the end. Here, the League would certainly be aware that the team was outmatched going in. Plus, it's only natural for them to converge at the source of the problem. Had the League showed up to intervene while the team had been fighting the plants at a random site instead, then I would say you have a point.

The JL, or Batman, or whoever, can always sweep in when the situation gets really dire. The only times they won't is when the team is on a mission against a single enemy where, of course, it won't get that dire. The only real exception to this rule is Captain Marvel, since because he's a kid at heart (literally), he's more of a peer than a mentor in some ways. The show has an out for the kids surviving any episode in that and it can prove problematic.

Glen Murakami I think stated somewhere that he deliberately kept adults out of "TEEN TITANS" for that reason, that he didn't want them to overshadow his teen characters or be there in the background to always save them. That was why the only adult heroes who showed up were the Doom Patrol, and even that was just for the last season's premiere. Now, I do think that Murakami's tactics for "TEEN TITANS" in a lot of ways were steps too far that robbed the show of what could have been interesting dynamics. The show treaded water with mediocrity or cookie cutter dialogue a damn lot. But at least there when Slade was thrashing everyone within an inch of their lives, I wasn't expecting Zatara or Batman to beam in at a moment's notice.

Bane remains the only A-List villain the kids were able to defeat with relative ease. That still kind of irritates me. Nobody was allowed to outright defeat Joker or Vertigo outright, but BANE was curb stomped three times in a row. I mean it was for the best that the Injustice League weren't all beaten by the kids, but...some of them could have. YJ was the only show that actually got Bane's intellect and cunning right, and they pooched the angle that he's also a physical threat.

It was odd that Ultra-Humanite is usually a super-genius type, but here he was just a stand-in for Mallah. But then again, Wotan isn't the type to be into ransom demands if one looks up him, so, whatever.

I apologize if this was posted already, but Greg just revealed the titles for the rest of season one episodes:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13553

Interesting titles.

Episode 20, "COLDHEARTED", may be another episode with the ice villains, maybe.

Episode 18, "SECRETS", may be the episode in which Artemis and/or Aqualad's heritage is revealed.

I wonder if episode 23, "INSECURITY", will involve yet another breach of Mt. Justice or if it could focus on the insecurity of one of the characters.

For people wondering why some villains are willing to kill The Team and others aren't, Greg Weisman revealed that the characters of YJ have an entire range of morality from white to gray to black and everything in between. Also since Black Adam used to be a hero, he may still have some heroic ideals.

The problem is that this sort of thing works when we get to know the villains well through repeat appearances, and not when they just appear as opponents of the week.

For example, in "TSSM", Sandman eventually settled into a different moral pole than his allies in the Sinister Six. He wanted revenge on Spider-Man same as Rhino and a lot of the others, but when it came down to seriously killing either him or civilians to do so, Sandman balked. It was built up and made sense.

But because villains come and go in this show, we don't have that luxury. So it can seem that some of them are psycho's or efficient, and others are morons who take live captives who always escape, because that's what live captives do. Escape. Maybe not a fair nitpick, as villains have been finding ways to be ineffective and lose since fiction began, but it is what it is. I'd rather the heroes survive through guile and cunning rather than being lucky in having dumb opponents.

For the record, Cadmus taking the heroes alive in the pilot made sense because they intended to clone them and kill them later. And I imagine "The Light" would rather have Superboy back after all they invested in him.

 

[Panthro]

and it is worth mention that this show is going out of it's way to have every Green Lantern that isn't Hal Jordan show up often

Kyle Rayner hasn't appeared yet. Neither has the Golden Age Green Lantern Alan Scott, AKA: Sentinel. Hell, Alan Scott hasn't been in any animated outings except for the opening credits sequence of "Justice League: The New Frontier" when he and the rest of the JSA walk away with their heads hung low while a bunch of dumb ungrateful civilians boo at them (the parody of Alan Scott that appeared in the "Legends" episode of JL doesn't count). Other Golden Age/JSA characters, including Alan Scott's own son Obsidian, have managed appearances in other animated outlets, either as cameos & guest spots on JL/JLU (Dr. Fate, Stargirl, Atom Smasher, Wild Cat, Dr. Mid-Nite, Hourman) or Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Wild Cat again, Dr. Fate again, Dr. Mid-Nite again, Jay Garrick Flash, etc.) The various incarnations of Hawkman & Hawkgirl and Black Canary have served in both the JLA & JSA (Black Canary's mother also served with the JSA) and they've had appearances on JLU, Batman/B&B, Justice League: Crisis on 2 Earth (or in Hawkgirl's case her evil doppleganger did) and YJ. Jay Garrick had a non-speaking cameo in YJ's "Down Time", and if I read the reports correctly he's slated to appear again in a future focus ep for Kid Flash (don't know who was supposed to voice him). Alan Scott's gotten nothing thus far despite being the original Green Lantern and one of the cornerstones of the JSA; I don't think he's even slated to appear in the upcoming Green Lantern CGI series that's supposed to debut soon (and a planned cameo for him was cut from this past summer's GL film). For some reason Alan Scott can't catch a break with WB's animation department, whether because they don't like him or don't know what to do with him. It can't be the "oh he's too difficult to animate" excuse because that's a bulls*** answer; they've proven in the past that they can animate whole armies of Green Lanterns, even if they look like giant pigs (Kilowog), roosters with fish fins on their heads (Tomar-Re), blonde orange skinned Vulcans (Arisia), werewolves, heads with tiny almost un-usable limbs or any other weird alien you've seen in your worst fever dreams.

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Alan Scott somehow got screwed out of a JSA animated DTV or weekly animated series (not that either will happen in our lifetimes).

Sorry, had to rant.

Had Donna Troy - the original Wonder Girl - been included in the founding team, she likely would have been more of a match for Wally. She also comes from a legacy, trained by a mentor exclusively, and was usually more upbeat.

Speaking of Wonder Girl, do we know which one we're getting yet?

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

a Hell, Alan Scott hasn't been in any animated outings except for the opening credits sequence of "Justice League: The New Frontier" when he and the rest of the JSA walk away with their heads hung low while a bunch of dumb ungrateful civilians boo at them (the parody of Alan Scott that appeared in the "Legends" episode of JL doesn't count).

Actually, Alan Scott does show up in Brave and the Bold, along with the rest of the JSA, in "Crisis 22,300 Miles Above Earth!". He even has a speaking role.

And for the record, Hal Jordan shows up in "Fireworks" along with the JLA. In fact, he's one of the seven founding members.

 

[Dread]

Kyle Rayner hasn't appeared yet. Neither has the Golden Age Green Lantern Alan Scott, AKA: Sentinel. Hell, Alan Scott hasn't been in any animated outings except for the opening credits sequence of "Justice League: The New Frontier" when he and the rest of the JSA walk away with their heads hung low while a bunch of dumb ungrateful civilians boo at them (the parody of Alan Scott that appeared in the "Legends" episode of JL doesn't count). Other Golden Age/JSA characters, including Alan Scott's own son Obsidian, have managed appearances in other animated outlets, either as cameos & guest spots on JL/JLU (Dr. Fate, Stargirl, Atom Smasher, Wild Cat, Dr. Mid-Nite, Hourman) or Batman: The Brave & The Bold (Wild Cat again, Dr. Fate again, Dr. Mid-Nite again, Jay Garrick Flash, etc.) The various incarnations of Hawkman & Hawkgirl and Black Canary have served in both the JLA & JSA (Black Canary's mother also served with the JSA) and they've had appearances on JLU, Batman/B&B, Justice League: Crisis on 2 Earth (or in Hawkgirl's case her evil doppleganger did) and YJ. Jay Garrick had a non-speaking cameo in YJ's "Down Time", and if I read the reports correctly he's slated to appear again in a future focus ep for Kid Flash (don't know who was supposed to voice him). Alan Scott's gotten nothing thus far despite being the original Green Lantern and one of the cornerstones of the JSA; I don't think he's even slated to appear in the upcoming Green Lantern CGI series that's supposed to debut soon (and a planned cameo for him was cut from this past summer's GL film). For some reason Alan Scott can't catch a break with WB's animation department, whether because they don't like him or don't know what to do with him. It can't be the "oh he's too difficult to animate" excuse because that's a bulls*** answer; they've proven in the past that they can animate whole armies of Green Lanterns, even if they look like giant pigs (Kilowog), roosters with fish fins on their heads (Tomar-Re), blonde orange skinned Vulcans (Arisia), werewolves, heads with tiny almost un-usable limbs or any other weird alien you've seen in your worst fever dreams.

In addition to GamerSlyRatchet's response, Jay Garrick has shown up in "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" as well.

But, you do have a point that Kyle Rayner hasn't appeared since "JLU".

As someone who isn't well abreast of DC lore, what is the official canon story about how Alan Scott can have a magical Green Lantern ring that works exactly the same as the rings that the alien Guardians created aside for the difference in weakness (Scott's ring was weak to wood, while the Guardian rings were weak to the color yellow) without either being connected? Because it is one amazing coincidence, in-story.

Speaking of Wonder Girl, do we know which one we're getting yet?

No. Donna Troy would fit the best considering "YOUNG JUSTICE" is mixed a bit with the founding Teen Titans, such as Dick Grayson, Wally West and Speedy being involved. Cassie was the Wonder Girl of the actual YJ comic with a less complicated back story.

 

[Anubis]

From wiki

Starheart


Alan Scott's Starheart power ring


The first superhero to use the name Green Lantern in comic books, Alan Scott, uses a power ring that draws energy from the Starheart. Before the creation of the Corps, the Guardians gathered all the magic they could find and imprisoned it in an orb called the Starheart.[8] In its original appearance, a flashback sequence depicts how a fragment of the Starheart falls to Earth, is discovered by a Chinese occultist, and fashioned into the shape of a lamp. Superstitious villagers murder the occultist, after which, the lamp flashes green, killing them in return. After traveling the world for some time, the lamp eventually ends up at an insane asylum. It is here where a patient reshapes it into a train lantern, whereupon the power of the lantern restores his sanity. It comes into Scott's possession during a train wreck where it grants him the power to wield it. To channel its power, he removes a portion of it and molds it into a ring. The only weakness of the ring is that it cannot be used to affect things made of wood.[2] Residual effects from wearing it were, however, passed down to Scott's children, the metahumans Jade and Obsidian.[87]
Jade was able to tap into the Starheart naturally and use its power without the necessity of a ring.[87] For a time, Alan Scott absorbed the Starheart, and was able to use the power in a similar fashion.[88] When Jade died, Kyle Rayner absorbed her energy, and could tap into both the Starheart and the Central Power Battery as Ion.[89] During the Sinestro Corps War story-arc, Rayner was separated from the Ion entity (a benevolent symbiote and living embodiment of willpower) and became a normal Green Lantern again after being given a standard Green power ring.[90] It is unclear if Rayner's link to the Starheart remains, or if it was transferred with the Ion symbiote to its newest host, Sodam Yat.[91]
During the Brightest Day event, it appears that the Starheart actually has its own sentient intelligence that controls its user, as it is revealed that the orb had been gradually taking control of people on Earth for quite some time, and now that it is on Earth, it is growing more powerful and driving metahumans all over the world insane. Jade states that the Starheart captured her in space and deliberately brought her to Earth to find Alan, and also states that it is her fault that her father is now in danger. Just then, Alan awakens and his costume transforms into his suit of armor from Kingdom Come, and he then tells the assembled heroes that he intends to destroy the world.

After 1985's publication of Crisis on Infinite Earths, a Tales of the Green Lantern Corps story was published that brought Scott even closer to the Corps' ranks, when it was revealed that Alan Scott was not the first human to bear a power ring. A Green Lantern named Yalan Gur, a resident of China, preceded him by several centuries. Not only had the Corps' now-familiar green, black and white uniform motif not yet been adopted, but Yalan Gur altered the basic red uniform to more closely resemble the style of clothing worn by his countrymen. Power ultimately corrupted this early Green Lantern, as he attempted to rule over mankind, which forced the Guardians to cause his ring to manifest a weakness to wood, the material from which most Earth weapons of the time were fashioned. This allowed the Chinese peasants to ultimately defeat their corrupted "champion." His ring and lantern were burned and it was during this process that the “intelligence” inhabiting the ring and the lantern, and linking them to the Guardians, was damaged. Over time, when it had occasion to manifest itself, this "intelligence" became known as the mystical 'Starheart' of fable. Centuries later, it was explained, when Scott found the mystical lantern, it had no memory of its true origins, save a vague recollection of the uniform of its last master. This was the origin of Scott’s distinctive costume. Due to its damaged link to them, the Guardians presumed the ring and lantern to be lost in whatever cataclysm overcame their last owner of record. Thus Scott was never noticed by the Guardians and went on to carve a history of his own apart from that of the Corps, sporting a ring with an artificially induced weakness against anything made of wood. Honoring this separate history, the Guardians never moved to force Scott to relinquish the ring, formally join the Corps, or adopt its colors. A Silver Age cross-over story depicts Scott and Hal Jordan charging their rings at the same Power Battery while both reciting the "Brightest Day" oath. During the Rann-Thanagar War, it was revealed that Scott is an honorary member of the Corps.

 

[Gelc22]

Wally seems to fit more into the role of "comic relief" than "brains" on this team.

It's hard to see a character be able to fill both these roles but I can buy it with Wally. He's clueless and suffers foot in mouth syndrome because he's a teen with an over-active brain and a short attention span but when he slows down and concentrates he's pretty bright, at least in regards to science. Hopefully we get to see him do something of worth soon.

Dread, may I ask why you consider Wally not to be reliable or stable?