How would you know that without reading it? Last season they planted the seeds for all 6 members and their arcs early in the season. I've seen alot of the same type of setup for this season.
We've been through this before. People in this topic sometimes mention what goes on in the supplemental comic. And since I've no intention to pay for nor track down the supplemental comic, hearsay is okay.
Least in this particular area.
Sub par by your standards which I find to be slightly artificial. Because he moves fast you expect people to not be able to hit him, again his powers are about acceleration and deceleration. NOT super speed anticipation. Bloodlines was the setup, not the payoff.
It depends on how super-speed is interpreted and written, which is also something we've gone over before. In real life, drivers can't even drive at speeds near Mach 1 around an oval track without crashing into something sporadically. There has to be some measure of even unconscious reaction time enhancement otherwise a speedster would crash through a wall every time.
I did enjoy "BLOODLINES" overall, because it was well written. I'm just not keen on the idea of Impulse replacing Wally.
That said, think about it like this. Most people cannot react well to the heightened speeds of martial artists such as Bruce Lee or Jet Li or so on without near equal training. Such speed is nothing for Kid-Flash. Yet the guy's chumped by almost every villain with a name and a credited voice actor.
There wasn't a Nightwing before Dick.
Well, post-CRISIS. Pre-CRISIS, Nightwing was a legendary hero on Krypton who Robin decided to name himself after to pay homage to more heroes besides Batman.
To me Wally on this show is a far more well rounded character. Usually all Wally was on JLU was the funny guy. On this show he's far more than that, his insecurities play more in to him, he's far more stubborned, plus he's alot smarter. Truth be told, I found Wally on that show to be a weird hybrid of Barry and Bart Allen, more than Wally West himself.
I'll certainly agree that the "JL/U" Wally had a bit of Barry Allen in him. He had Barry's origin as well as his job, essentially. The Timm produced TV shows tended to "merge" various versions of characters like that; such as in "S:TAS" they may have called Green Lantern Kyle Rayner who had Kyle's job, but he basically had Hal Jordan's origin and design. By the second season of "JL" the show did establish that Wally was the heart of the team; without him they were prone to overreaction or corruption. Of course that got sidetracked when Flash practically sat out the opening season of "JLU" but it came up at various points.
I will concede that "YJ" 's version of Wally plays with science far more often, and technically does show up more. There's yet to be a 13-14 episode run of "YJ" where Wally didn't get a single line of dialogue and only two background cameos. And like I said before, "YJ" Wally has gotten to be in a long term relationship with a major team character; "JLU" Flash was a hapless bachelor until Linda Park emerged from nowhere. Yet there were those little moments in "JL/U" where despite all the jokes and banter the other Leaguers trusted or asked Flash to get serious when it mattered, and he did, and he didn't disappoint. I haven't really gotten that sense from "YJ" 's version yet.
Didn't stop you from feeling like the writers screwed up. So no points for you.
Like I said, I write reviews from immediate reaction to an experience. Otherwise it isn't as thrilling for me. My immediate reaction was that while Kaldur may have been undercover I assumed the worst because that is what I do, and it is typically the path for male minority characters (to go evil or die, or both).
So, because I was wrong once, I should mindlessly type, "That was awesome, and whatever isn't awesome will be awesome if I wait long enough"? Because those wouldn't feel very honest nor be very fun to type for me.
If I were you, I'd start getting used to that feeling coming up this season.
We'll see.
Not necessarily. I just feel your reasons for how you feel come across as really petty sometimes.
I'd like major characters in an action team show to have equal focus and equal moments of triumph and butt-kickery. Golly, that's terribly petty of me to notice the difference between Wally and Superboy in some of those regards.
Flash wasn't rescued by a bunch of kids in unconvincing fashion like Batman was in "I've got a Batman in my Basement".
Which isn't as bad as running into a door. That's like Batman knocking himself out crashing through a window. And let's be fair - NO EPISODE OF ANY SHOW, EVER, has ever done the "kids save the hero" episode well. None. It doesn't matter if it's Batman or the Justice League or Spider-Man. It's a lame episode trope in general. Even as a kid I hated it.
"INJUSTICE FOR ALL" and "BRAVE AND THE BOLD" also had some fairly embarrassing Flash moments. One of which does involve the bane of a speedster's existence on TV - marbles.
Until Geoff Jones took over and let them "do what you want, and use what they need." according to Greg Weisman; I might agree with you.
I'll believe it when I see it. "Doing what they want" and "kill off Geoff's favorite character ever who stars in the current FLASH book" are two different things sometimes in TV.
You do realize that most of the things with Young Justice: Invasion were signed off before The New 52 came about, right?
But the New 52 was coming down the pipe, and DC's love for Barry Allen was evident for a while.
Wally was treated ALOT better than Kaldur was IMO.
Hence why I usually say there are worse fates than being attached as the boyfriend to an awesome heroine.
As Sarcastic Fan has said elsewhere, you can tell who has watched most of Greg Weisman-helmed shows and who hasn't based on the comments.
It has been a very, very, VERY long time since I watched any "GARGOYLES" (well over a decade if not half my life ago) and I never saw "WITCH". "TSSM" is the freshest.
You mean like how Superboy and M'Gann's subplots have them attached to each other at the hip? Hell we don't even know the reasons why they retired. Maybe they both felt the same way at first. Perhaps Wally will come around to missing the life later on. Just that Artemis came around first.
Superboy had a subplot revolving around Luthor, CADMUS, and acceptance from Superman. M'Gann had a subplot revolving around Queen Bee, Gar Logan, and hiding her true species to EVERYONE, not just Conner. Megan's quickly budding psychic powers as well as her willingness to use them in unethical ways was also a factor. Both of those subplots work independent of each other; especially Conner's. They just happen to work a little better together. But each had something to do without the other if an episode required it. That isn't something one can really say about Wally. Even his "accepting things on faith" subplot was really just so he could get into a position to be Artemis' boyfriend, which he couldn't before.
Because I (and many others) can see the seeds of his subplot being setup in Bloodlines coming from a mile away. Personally I don't get how you see that as more "they made Wally look bad, and it's not going to go anywhere."
The problem I think is you fail to see my view point properly. Historically whenever the show has had to trim one character's subplots for time or whatever, Wally is usually the one they do so with (or Kaldur). And historically he is attached to the hip to Artemis. So beyond however any of his stories effect Artemis, no, I don't exactly see a pivotal moment for Wally coming, not unless it is part of Artemis or Impulse's thing. The show's so busy and crammed that you do need to bunch up characters a bit in order to even hope of giving everyone some equal play. If we had another six episodes I'd be a little more hopeful, but not without them.
Again how do you know Wally wasn't a factor in her decision to go through with this? Perhaps she remembered Tula dying and didn't want anyone else (like Tempest or Aqualad) to feel that way. If that was the case then it wouldn't work without Wally.
Considering the fact that Nightwing seemed willing to fake at least one person's death and we saw Tula in the teaser reel, I am not 100% convinced she is dead at all. I have some reasonable doubt, at least.
If Wally was that big a factor then she wouldn't have gone through with it at all, since Wally clearly didn't want her to.
For all the good that did him he might as well have just tripped on the marbles since the next second saw him doing the "marty jannety" clothesline sell from Nightwing. Not to mention the marbles were setup quite a distance from him where as Wally tripped AFTER making a turn and didn't have time to see them.
Considering Wally and Bart's dynamic in the comics was a big deal, I see them sharing screen time together. Not to mention him being faster than Wally plays right into Wally feeling like he's insecure and unworthy to be taking up the Flash mantle, just like IN THE COMICS.
Marbles always seem to be a speedster's bane in DC cartoons. Seriously, all of Flash's rogues should just carry bags of them, they'd be invincible. Who needs mirrors or freeze guns when you have marbles?
The comics had a major difference - Wally was already the Flash when Impulse showed up. I also doubt Impulse was faster than Wally in the comics when he first showed up (although if I am wrong, DC historians can correct me). The show has also never gotten around to a reason why Wally isn't as fast as Barry or Impulse and even the comics flip-flopped on that. Originally it was biological - because Wally was mutated as a child and while he was still growing - his powers were more unstable and eventually caused him great pain. That ailment was cured by a blast of plot convenient energy during CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Later it was psychological - Wally personally felt he could never escape Barry's shadow even when Barry was dead for a while, so he held himself back. We don't know what track this show is taking with that yet. Barry didn't seem to fret about Wally's health in "BLOODLINES" so it may not be biological - assuming he knows of course. At ASK GREG, Weisman stated he disliked the idea of "the Speed Force" and to him Flash, Kid-Flash, et al. all get their powers from freak mutation much like Spider-Man got his from the spider-bite. In the comics, harnessing that was linked to Wally's boost in power; he was supposedly the first Flash to recognize the "speed force" and survive - so much so that Wally seeming to "sacrifice himself to the speed force" only to return later on from a seeming death seemed to happen about as often as Jean Grey dying.
I'd have rather had focus on Wally without Impulse needing to be there.
Once again, the show also didn't do much with Kaldur that didn't revolve around him being leader. Didn't take long for that to change did it?
Kaldur was looking for "the mole" for a few episodes in Season 1. "DOWNTIME" also was a bit of a foundation for his role with Black Manta now.
It comes down to this, really. I can honestly believe YJ putting Kaldur in a pivotal role for the subplot for an entire season that matters in terms of the storyline without requiring he be the support character to a more impressive girlfriend or a kid sidekick. I don't honestly believe YJ would use Wally in that manner. At least not yet. It isn't that I doubt Wally is coming back or even donning the Kid-Flash costume again - of course he will. I just wonder if he will do those things in a story that is actually about him, or about how he supports either Impulse or Artemis. It wouldn't be an issue except other characters, including Artemis, can have stories about themselves without always being obligated to be attached to the hip to someone else. Hence why I am starting to see Wally as more of a supporting character, especially as Season 2 has changed the regular cast roster a bit.
Her doing that was required to get him to put on the helmet how?
Wally wouldn't have put on the helmet if he didn't begin to at least believe that magic was real and it'd have an effect. And like I said, Artemis' role in challenging Wally's opinion/attitude was key in that regard. The others weren't willing to challenge Wally in that regard for a variety of reasons. Artemis was.
My issue was "DENIAL" was never that I didn't get what it wanted to do. I just felt it didn't do it as well as I prefer.
Yeah and in that very episode he robbed the Light of getting their own country ALL ON HIS OWN. A feat no one else had accomplished during the season. To me THAT counts for alot.
Yet for "The Light" it was a Tuesday.
Greg did comment on that recently at the blog:
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=15498
(He also does a better job explaining the build-up for Wally & Artemis than the show did, but I suppose that's easy when you write/edit it.)
I suppose the conflict I usually have with "COLDHEARTED" is most of "The Light"'s plots stretch into several episodes and roll onward for a while. Such as their scheme to infiltrate and take over the Justice League. Such things gives them more weight. Therefore it gets easy to dismiss any other plot which comes and goes at a faster pace. Then it seems like foiling a typical plot of the week, which is sort of the objective of most superhero shows.
Yeah but which one is more likely to bite it?
Hey, I had a few post exchanges with at least one poster who thought Wally was biting it.
I'm not convinced the show has the stones to kill Barry on screen. Even "BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD" went around that by "banishing" Barry through time for a while. As I said in my previous post, it is possible something happens to Barry which doesn't kill him. After all, the show couldn't exactly do it as the comics did with a crisis and Anti-Monitor.
Neither do I. I think Artemis missed it later on. But I bet she felt the same way Wally did about quitting at the time they did.
Naturally. I doubt Wally could have gotten Artemis to fully retire if she genuinely didn't want to at least for a while. Considering she came from a broken home I imagine the idea of making a stable one with someone was appealing. However, after a few years the urges returned at least for Artemis. Sure, Wally slapped the suit on for "BLOODLINES" but it was more of an obligation during an emergency for him, to make sure Barry and Impulse would be okay (especially as he was at least a little suspicious of the former). Artemis does seem to get more of a sense of fulfillment from it, at least this season. I imagine going undercover with Kaldur will be a strain for her, of course. Straddling that line she chose not to cross when she rebelled against her father and sister.
Have a little patience.
Forget, "Don't call them sidekicks". "Better late than never" should be the slogan for this show. Especially with the air schedule.
Despite any criticism of SSM that I had, I do feel its better than Young Justice. Hell I think it's Greg Weismans best work ever (yes Gargoyles fans, I said it was better than Gargoyles, want to fight about it?) My gripe with Tombstone at the time wasn't so much that I wanted him to be invulnerable more than I wanted him to feel unique from Kingpin (I used to feel like Tombstone up to Gangland could've been written with Kingpin in the same place with little writing change). When I heard that Robbie figured into future plans he had for Tombstone, I mellowed out a little and figured that where ever he went with the character would've made him feel less like Kingpin-lite (pun unavoidable).
"TSSM" is heads and tails better than "YJ" to me. There's not even a debate in my mind in that regard. A fair caveat is that team superhero shows are different beasts than a solo hero show with a civilian supporting cast. But, yes, "TSSM" made excellence look easy and defied high expectations as quickly as I had them. Anyone who doubts my ability to be critical of a Spider-Man cartoon should dig up my reviews of the first 12 episodes of "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN". "YJ" is definitely a show which had to crawl before it walked and walk before it ran, with some stumbles here and there. I still think it started too cluttered too soon and merely got more so, but maybe that's just me.
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