Roanoke Island was the setting of the first English colony in the New World back in the 16th century. They vanished under mysterious circumstances. Obviously, Weisman intended to connect that to some actual mysticism via Klarion (who I believe dates to that period anyway). Ergo, at least for "MISPLACED", that area was picked for its actual historical mysterious factor.
You missed the point entirely. Just like with THAT, how do you know there wouldn't be a deeper reason for why a spell would be performed at the north pole?
I'm aware of Weisman's opinion of the "speed-force" and his omission of it for this universe; it actually dismays me when fans seem to predict that Wally would return via it online when it's highly improbable that Weisman would ever use it in the show. Pick another theory, fellas.
Where did I state the speed force, and where did someone else in the link below mention it?
I was simply bemused by the rejection of that as a ponderous contrivance, but details such as "residual Dr. Fate magic aura" or strange summoning circles in the arctic are perfectly acceptable. Why does he have to have an aura from Dr. Fate? By that logic, Kaldur and Zatanna should have one, too, since they also donned the helmet. Yet it was never addressed, used, mentioned, or brought up.
Where did I reject the notion of those two NOT ALSO having "Fate's Aura", it was something I brought up due to the notion that Nabu let Kent Nelson's soul stay in the helmet when all he would do inside there was object to any BODY that Nabu wanted to keep. If that's all he would do, why would Nabu bother? The notion is basically this, if Nabu let Kent Nelson's soul survive in some way, BECAUSE of his doing, why should we dismiss the same possibility's for other's who have worn the helmet? Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch; but it's not a total a** pull. And just because it wasn't mentioned (when there is no reason to bring it up at that moment I might add), doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't later.
Wow, now there's some grasping at straws. I mean it is fascinating to see some people on a tumblr pick apart some screen shots, but at this point I do believe a notable section of the fan base is going through the 5 stages of mourning and they get stuck somewhere around "denial" and "bargaining".
So basically your dismissing ANY POTENTIAL VALID POINTS because it came from TUMBLR? That's the same kind of prejudice that's applied to Spectacular Spider-Man when it's naysayers said it was nothing more than a kiddie cartoon BECAUSE of it's art design. You call it straw grasping, but offer NO COUNTERPOINTS.
Regardless of where it came from I think it brings up many valid points. If you're going to kill Wally off why not make it as obvious as possible? Why add things like him just disappearing, or have the scarab say "cease" then have Jamie's response be "cease what?", when there's nothing stopping the scarab from choosing a word that CAN'T be interpreted differently? Not to mention having a big circle appear as if it was a door before Wally disappears? The "aftermath/debris" didn't come from Wally's body, it came from the blink and you'll miss it circle that formed infront of him THEN VANISHED after he did. THAT doesn't strike you as the least bit suspicious?
First it was Dr. Fate magic aura, now he's been zapped to other planets? Somewhere, fan fiction or deviant art beacons!
Is there some written law that I have to stick to one theory when throwing out possibilities? Though if I had to pick one that has the most logic it's him turning into zeta beam radiation and teleported somewhere unprovoked. At least that's my theory.
It's also based on how Wally in the comics ended up on a different planet in a different dimension AFTER he pushed Superboy-Prime into the speed force. While saying goodbye to Bart he passed the Flash torch on to him. Here, he passed the Kid Flash torch on to Bart.
There's also the fact that Bart's not gonna stop aging, and you made a ruckus that as Wally gets older the name Kid Flash wouldn't fit. Why should Bart be immune to this dilemma? Where does he go after that in the next time skip? Impulse, would be a step backwards. Flash? Why would they have HIM become the Flash and NOT Wally when Wally's time as Flash is the most iconic part of his character? Bart's time as The Flash was so short (it lasted less than a year) and unmemorable that he was killed because all the rogues kicked him to death.
My theory is that Bart might get killed off, along with Barry and Wally comes back to find himself the fastest man alive, BUT ALONE amongst speedsters. We at least know Barry's death was on Greg and Brandon's minds as a possible death in season 2. I know that Bart's sounds like a stretch, but an argument trying to convince me that Bart has more claim to being the Flash than Wally does is an even bigger stretch given how forgettable his run was.
Wally wasn't a crucial plot cog in Season 1 (insomuch that his development aided Artemis along).
It aided both of them along. Screen time doesn't always make one more important or more interesting than the other.
Also what foreshadowing did we get that Jamie was going to be a big deal in season 2 from SEASON 1? For that matter what foreshadowing did we get of Black Manta being Aqualad's father would be a big deal in season 2?
He certainly wasn't one in Season 2.
In one scene in the finale, he contributed more than Superboy's 10 appearances did this season. Again, it's quality NOT quantity that matters.
I sincerely doubt it was coming in Season 3 after a bloody death scene which broke the Internet in half.
Pffft, you act like THAT is the first time this show broke the internet in half. What about the time skip, or EVIL Aqualad? You're assuming that THAT was an actual death scene, when all you've got to show for it IS the characters reactions to it, AS IF they know the full detail's of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
One should accept what they got from him in the show.
How is it unhealthy to be more open minded to other possibilities?
In fairness, Tim Drake in the old days was the sidekick who was probably the closest to the "world's greatest detective" in terms of smarts and deductive skills than Todd or Grayson were. He was also the one who was the hacker, and used the bo-staff. The dilemma with alternate media adaptations is they tend to merge the details of legacies and just attach them to the founder. In fairness to "YJ", while they made Grayson a computer hacker like in previous cartoons, at least they allowed Drake to keep his bo-staff, unlike other shows (even going back to "B:TAS") where Grayson was just handed it. I noticed it and appreciated the detail.
I also think it's dumb for Robin to be a legacy character and have always wondered why Batman's other sidekicks couldn't come up with their own names, but I know corporate reality means there ALWAYS must be a Robin. But, I digress.
Yeah, you digressed so much that you missed the point ENTIRELY. Why does Tim continue if we apply the same standards to him, that you applied to the Wally situation?
My definition of a standalone episode is one which can be viewed in any order on the schedule and it doesn't effect the overall narrative. While "SECRETS" maybe isn't as case sensitive as other episodes, I think it has its place on the schedule
The main plot involved something that had NO BUILD UP before and nothing in the episode of it played such a huge role in the show AFTER that. Everything addressed like the mole meeting, got addressed again in Insecurity and Performance. The only thing that truly meant something continuity wise was Artemis learning about Conner/M'gann.
(even if Wally really had to be ignorant to not notice how lovey dovey Conner and Megan were while putting on their costumes).
And Artemis wasn't?
I sincerely doubt Tigress in a third season would sit out 8 straight episodes and not factor into anything until it was time for a death scene.
You find a cohesive way that involves Sportsmaster being involved in the plot DESPITE cutting his ties to The Light THEN I'll believe your claim. Otherwise, your basing this on history WHEN Superboy's contributions to Season 2 has already proven that there's no guarantees.
Conner wasn't as vital a character in Season 2, but he was still a regular and consistent presence.
And what did his presence amount to overall in season 2? Again see above in how Wally had a bigger impact on the season despite his number of appearances compared to Conner.
I hadn't thought of that angle for Nightwing choosing Artemis.
You seriously think Artemis wouldn't of brought that up in why he didn't choose M'gann, Conner, or Barbara when they've proven they are perfectly capable of having there deaths move Kaldur forward AND watch his back? Or Wally for that matter in asking "Why does it have to be Artemis?"
Given how he seemed to make up plan details as he went along, I do question whether he considered turning Sportsmaster and Cheshire against the Light as an objective.
More like he was forced to improvise a situation OR make a move depending on what the Light does next. Also anything that might create dissension among The Light is an opportunity I think he would take.
I mean, the Light could always just hire another grunt to replace him (which they did).
That would stop Crusher from doing something in retaliation WHY? Because it certainly didn't.
I always figured he chose Artemis because he couldn't bare losing Megan for an extended period given her powers in general and needing her to occasionally help fake Superman appearances with Conner. Of course, he also didn't plan for her to zap Kaldur and get kidnapped to fix him. Also, Artemis had experience dealing with underworld ties so she could successfully go undercover; she didn't like it, but she grew up around those elements. Megan didn't.
Artemis's underworld ties NEVER came into play in terms with success in that. Also Kaldur NEVER had underworld ties, plus Conner AND M'gann have also proven capable in that situation as shown in "Terrors". I don't think Barbara isn't capable of those tasks either. Again what other reasons would Dick have for going to someone in retirement for this gig?
In other words, you either got nothing; or it's so far down into the argument that you don't have the motivation to go into details on WHY.
Considering that scene was Wally's high point until blowing up to save the world, hindsight makes a lot of it worthless to be honest. He was dead wrong about Kaldur, and had Nightwing seriously considered his theory, their plans would have been even more botched. While Kaldur did perform his cover perfectly, he seemed to never waver as to what side he was on or fret about losing himself (as Artemis did). So, I don't really mind that he didn't mention Bart by name. I still think he had a place in "BEFORE THE DAWN", but obviously that's debatable.
Yeah until he got mind blasted and needed to be saved, he did his job perfectly.
Why does it matter whether Wally was right or wrong in that argument? He didn't know the things Dick did, and whether he was wrong later doesn't mean it wasn't a valid point IN THE MOMENT. Also saying Wally blew up is inaccurate. As the link above pointed out, you don't become translucent before exploding or before you disintegrate. The best you can say while STILL BEING accurate is that Wally vanished.
"CORNERED" feels more interchangeable since Despero was a fairly one note threat and the key detail of the Reach aiding the League and looking good for PR could have been covered in no end of ways. It also dealt with Bart's immediate recovery from being kidnapped as well as the others, and featured characters Wally knew like Capt. Marvel, Zatanna, Conner, and Megan.
Perhaps, but you pretty much dismiss the fact that Despero might of been used again despite being trapped on War World now. Also you never address WHY Dick would call upon Wally or why Wally would go against those wishes when Artemis probably wouldn't want him to do anything to make things more difficult than they have to be.
The show wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Wally was perfectly willing to don the costume again for emergencies dealing with family and lovers in "Bloodlines" and the last two episodes, but not for other matters.
Again, your ignoring context. Those things happened during Artemis's stint and as Greg stated, Wally's
role during that, "is to go about his life, as if he's mourning his dead girlfriend. Not, literally, running around, fighting crime.
Nightwing did not invite Kid Flash to participate until the briefing that took place just before "Summit". Obviously, as soon as Nightwing called, Wally was there."
I see "RUNAWAYS" as a poor place for him. He would have had to interact with characters he'd never met before or again. I suppose Red Volcano at least was a villain he'd faced before, but even that's a stretch. Maybe if the episode were willing to devote its A-plot to him, but it wasn't. Frankly, no episode in Season 2 was. Even in "Bloodlines", Bart is the A-plot.
I'd argue that Wally was the most important character among the 70 some characters that appeared in Endgame.
I never said Runaways was the most ideal episode for him to appear in, BUT in my mind it's the most valid one in which Dick would call upon Wally for help since aside from Blue Beetle he was the closest one there, and when the possibility of a catastrophe like Red gaining Amazo's parts could take place that WASN'T the time for Dick to be making excuses in not calling upon any possible resource at that moment. The fact that he didn't was an out of character moment for him IMO, especially since Dick had no way of knowing if Blue had enough juice to take RV down, let alone stop him from getting the parts. Wally could at least snatch and run with the parts AT THE VERY LEAST.
You keep saying that he should've appeared in Cornered but offer NO CONTEXT that fits within why Dick should call upon him, or why Wally should break his role when the league and the team weren't undermanned in that episode. All your trying to do is fit a square into a circle IMO. My proposal for him to appear in Runaways isn't the most ideal (I never said it was), but it wasn't made without some consideration of the context Greg and Brandon put into Wally's role during Artermis's stint.
It was totally needed to give Arsenal 2-3 episodes of focus.
You might not like either Roy, but that doesn't mean other fans didn't. I actually didn't mind Arsenal that much; and they wanted to explore the consequences of that characters situation after being iced for 8 years, and who knows if he wouldn't have meant something big for season 3?
Weisman admitted that Wally did have more scenes and lines, but they were cut out of fear of showing their hand. While I feel that was an err and think any additional time would have only added to the punch of "ENDGAME", it is what it is.
I remember him saying that they cut lines from and ABOUT Wally, but not scenes altogether.
Barda and Mr. Miracle were JLU members. Any superhero on the roster could have helped them out with only minor edits to the script. There was nothing essential with placed Flash there besides the novelty of having him fight a bizarre off planet threat usually reserved for Superman. And a novelty wares thin.
On the first part of those two being members, first I will let
Dr. Cox speak for me.
Second Wally specifically said that he was sure those two weren't members. Also both of those two sought Superman for his speed, so there goes those other non-Flash members that are interchangeable with the script.
Regardless of whether they were members or not, J'onn said the league couldn't get involved in the war between New Genesis and Apokolips. How many besides Wally would let that get in the way of helping people if they asked for it?
Go back and watch that JLU episode, all that stuff I mentioned above is in there.
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