The Dark Knight "You've changed things... Forever"

[Arkhams_Prank]

I wonder if there are any remnants of the League of Shadows left in Gotham. They all couldn't have died or been sent to jail.

oO( wonders if Mr. Lau was connected to the League of Shadows... )
hhhhmm?

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

And he also said he "just does things" and doesn't look like a guy with a plan ... the point is Joker is ever evolving and he's whatever he wants to be at the time.

 

[MrWayne]

oO( wonders if Mr. Lau was connected to the League of Shadows... )
hhhhmm?

wat makes you wonder that?

 

[Arkhams_Prank]

wat makes you wonder that?

as Bruce Wayne he approaches Lau's company for a joint venture, however as Fox tells him that the Consultents love the idea but Fox isnt convinced .. Lau's compnay has grown eight percent anually, and Fox thinks that Lau's revenue stream must be off the books.. maybe even illegal. .. .. .. yet, Bruce Wayne had already known this. says he just wanted a closer look.
oO( the first time i had seen TDK i had thought that maybe there might be some connection cause in BB they said that through the ages the League of Shadows has survived.. )
in truth it was a strayed thought that has crossed my mind ever since I had seen The Dark Knight the first time.

 

[Anita18]

as Bruce Wayne he approaches Lau's company for a joint venture, however as Fox tells him that the Consultents love the idea but Fox isnt convinced .. Lau's compnay has grown eight percent anually, and Fox thinks that Lau's revenue stream must be off the books.. maybe even illegal. .. .. .. yet, Bruce Wayne had already known this. says he just wanted a closer look.

That's mostly to point out how Lau's been laundering money for the mob. His company's revenue grows because they're getting their income illegally.

 

[Arkhams_Prank]

meh, like i said it was just a strayed thought cause i had watched BB before going to see TDK. *grins*

 

[MrWayne]

My initial reason for making this was to invite thoughts on the subject of Freaks (and ive read alot of really interesting thoughts on here-Thanks!) and how imo BATMAN inspired much of it, with the exception of Crane who was already wearing a mask before there was the Bat.. although was he only wearing them in experiments to scare ppl? (im not sure) but like i said even by the time TDK hits hes wearing the mask now as a Scarecrow persona, Crane is gone.
I also think its hinted at in Nolans series the mention of "Freaks" a few times and such is to prepare the audience for the new criminal element in Gotham. As mentioned in a previous post and probably more in this thread... gone are the days of Mobsters in suits with guns.. and say hello to the Freaks of Gotham. Wondering what the next installment will bring...

 

[Goodfellas]

Exaclty i know this movie touched on The Long Halloween along but id like to see the whole Freaks vs mobsters angle introduced in the next one

Maybe habe Penguing become a gangste who owns a niht club called the iceberg lounge( like in the comics) and this could be unsettling to the other mobsters having a freak run this town

I mena i dont want Penguing as the main villain id like to see Riddler

Still i mean Joker started this trend of criminals that are considered freaks running this town now lets see it go farthe rint he next movie imo

Thats whats so great about Batman villains is that they are all psychotic and ****ed up in the head.. I mean lets face it Batman has the most popular and best rouge gallery in comic book history because they are all so intersgin and dark and demented

 

[Anita18]

My initial reason for making this was to invite thoughts on the subject of Freaks (and ive read alot of really interesting thoughts on here-Thanks!) and how imo BATMAN inspired much of it, with the exception of Crane who was already wearing a mask before there was the Bat.. although was he only wearing them in experiments to scare ppl? (im not sure) but like i said even by the time TDK hits hes wearing the mask now as a Scarecrow persona, Crane is gone.

I also think its hinted at in Nolans series the mention of "Freaks" a few times and such is to prepare the audience for the new criminal element in Gotham. As mentioned in a previous post and probably more in this thread... gone are the days of Mobsters in suits with guns.. and say hello to the Freaks of Gotham. Wondering what the next installment will bring...

I wasn't even really thinking of it going as far as inspiring a huge number of "freak" villains from Batman's rogue gallery, just that Batman showed that people can cross the line of social protocol. What I think he'd mostly inspire would be people who were the Batman copycats in TDK, which is still totally dangerous.

But yeah, seeing what kinds of rogue gallery villains that pop out of the woodwork now would be might interesting.

 

[LostGuy]

Yes, let's not forget that Batman himself can be seen as part of escalation. He is a result of criminals thriving on Gotham.

 

[MrWayne]

I wasn't even really thinking of it going as far as inspiring a huge number of "freak" villains from Batman's rogue gallery, just that Batman showed that people can cross the line of social protocol. What I think he'd mostly inspire would be people who were the Batman copycats in TDK, which is still totally dangerous.

But yeah, seeing what kinds of rogue gallery villains that pop out of the woodwork now would be might interesting.

^^ agreed... But do you think there would still be a Joker if there wasnt ever a Batman? or should I say would there be any freaks in Nolans Gotham if there wasnt one already dressed as a Bat?
i only base my comments from things mentioned in TDK but mainly the ending of BB on the roof top of the MCU with Gordon telling Batman " you really started something here".. someone please pop in the dvd and skip to that last scene if you dont exactly remember the escalation convo.. because according to Gordon by the end of BB Jokers already robbing banks dressed as the Joker...

 

[Arsh]

Well, we only know he left a 'Joker' card. At the end of BB, Gordon doesn't say he's painted his face. But, I mean, Batman was already in the papers by that point, maybe he'd inspired The Joker in that short time...

I think the potential for the freaks was already in Gotham (Scarecrow, The Joker), but it took Batman taking that plunge and becoming a freak himself in the sense that we know, for them to do the same. Crane became the Scarecrow permanently (finally went crazy-crazy after Bats dosed him with concentrated fear toxin), and The Joker was a two-bit criminal just doing things until he was inspired by Batman. Starts with a double homicide, then inspired by Batman, escalates his crimes. Not only that, but cause of Crane and the League of Shadows, a bunch of crazy Arkham inmates dosed with fear toxin are now wandering the streets. The potential for the freaks as we know them was always in Gotham city, but it was because of Batman that that potential was reached.

 

[MrWayne]

Well, we only know he left a 'Joker' card. At the end of BB, Gordon doesn't say he's painted his face. But, I mean, Batman was already in the papers by that point, maybe he'd inspired The Joker in that short time...

Maybe.. But actually if you watch the ending of BB again Gordon tells Batman in regards to Joker: "has a thing for the theatric, like you" meaning COSTUMED plus in TDK at the Bank Robbery scene with Gordon, Ramirez says.. "He cant resist showing us his face" and Gordon has the pic of Joker which he shows Batman... Go watch the ending of BB again lol

 

[Arsh]

Well, we only know he left a 'Joker' card. At the end of BB, Gordon doesn't say he's painted his face. But, I mean, Batman was already in the papers by that point, maybe he'd inspired The Joker in that short time...

Maybe.. But actually if you watch the ending of BB again Gordon tells Batman in regards to Joker: "has a thing for the theatric, like you" meaning COSTUMED plus in TDK at the Bank Robbery scene with Gordon, Ramirez says.. "He cant resist showing us his face" and Gordon has the pic of Joker which he shows Batman... Go watch the ending of BB again lol

Well... he couldn't have the costume at that point, since he says that only bought the clothes that he wears in the film with the gangsters' money. He coulda been painting his face, yeah... but Gordon implies that the bank robbery and the card at the end of BB are not the only things he's been doing. He's escalating his events, more than these two things in the six months between BB and TDK.

 

[Anita18]

^^ agreed... But do you think there would still be a Joker if there wasnt ever a Batman? or should I say would there be any freaks in Nolans Gotham if there wasnt one already dressed as a Bat?
i only base my comments from things mentioned in TDK but mainly the ending of BB on the roof top of the MCU with Gordon telling Batman " you really started something here".. someone please pop in the dvd and skip to that last scene if you dont exactly remember the escalation convo.. because according to Gordon by the end of BB Jokers already robbing banks dressed as the Joker...

Go watch the ending of BB again lol

What makes you think nobody else has that scene memorized but you?

Yes, some people will take Batman's presence in Gotham to heart more than others. But that's why they'll become his most prominent villains. It's a two-way street, exactly the way Gordon says it is. Batman will have to up his game in order to defeat these new villains, etc etc.

 

[MrWayne]

tah! dont roll your eyes at me ms self righteous lol
apparently the guy who disagreed with me who said "Well, we only know he left a 'Joker' card. At the end of BB, Gordon doesn't say he's painted his face. But, I mean, Batman was already in the papers by that point, maybe he'd inspired The Joker in that short time..." doesnt have em memorized..
Hence my reply.. ;P

 

[Arsh]

tah! dont roll your eyes at me ms self righteous lol
apparently the guy who disagreed with me who said "Well, we only know he left a 'Joker' card. At the end of BB, Gordon doesn't say he's painted his face. But, I mean, Batman was already in the papers by that point, maybe he'd inspired The Joker in that short time..." doesnt have em memorized..
Hence my reply.. ;P

You're one to talk about being self-righteous...

 

[agentzelda]

Several points:

I suspect in a Nolan-directed third picture there would still be only a limited element of the new-style villains, and there would still be some elements of the mob, simply because so many of Nolan's influences are classic gangster films that I think he likes exploring/representing that scene.

The ending of BB is quite open-ended in its implications. We really don't know that the Joker has completely fixed his image, only that he has one (hence the taste for the theatrical).

The line about the mob having bought his suit can be read in a number of ways. It can be read literally: after this major heist, he treated himself to a custom-tailored suit. It might imply that while this is a major heist, he's been ripping off the mob one way or another for some time. Or it might simply be one of the many remarks the Joker makes at the meeting that seem designed to test the mob's willingness to listen to him. If, as Gordon claims later, the suit is custom, it would not have been cheap. But it also doesn't look to have been made recently, given the amount of wear and staining.

All to say that the end of BB and the beginning of TDK have a little flexibility to them in terms of how you read them.

Would there have been a Joker without Batman? Well, this guy must have been doing something, and presumably it was criminal activity of some sort, and presumably also it was outside the circles of the conventional mob gangs. And there is the precedent of Crane. But the Joker persona might really have been defined by the idea of Batman, as a sort of antithesis: after all, he is his makeup as much as Batman is his mask.

 

[MrWayne]

You're one to talk about being self-righteous...

nothing self righteous about my reply... and stay out of this! lmao

 

[MrWayne]

Several points:

I suspect in a Nolan-directed third picture there would still be only a limited element of the new-style villains, and there would still be some elements of the mob, simply because so many of Nolan's influences are classic gangster films that I think he likes exploring/representing that scene.

The ending of BB is quite open-ended in its implications. We really don't know that the Joker has completely fixed his image, only that he has one (hence the taste for the theatrical).

The line about the mob having bought his suit can be read in a number of ways. It can be read literally: after this major heist, he treated himself to a custom-tailored suit. It might imply that while this is a major heist, he's been ripping off the mob one way or another for some time. Or it might simply be one of the many remarks the Joker makes at the meeting that seem designed to test the mob's willingness to listen to him. If, as Gordon claims later, the suit is custom, it would not have been cheap. But it also doesn't look to have been made recently, given the amount of wear and staining.

All to say that the end of BB and the beginning of TDK have a little flexibility to them in terms of how you read them.

Would there have been a Joker without Batman? Well, this guy must have been doing something, and presumably it was criminal activity of some sort, and presumably also it was outside the circles of the conventional mob gangs. And there is the precedent of Crane. But the Joker persona might really have been defined by the idea of Batman, as a sort of antithesis: after all, he is his makeup as much as Batman is his mask.

possible... well we dont know that thats the first bank robbery Jokers made either.. MAYBE as he had robbed a few already Gordon saw this as a problem and brought it up to Batmans attn considering that this time around the person in question was a bitmore on the freakish theatrical side, maybe since in TDK Gordon had that black n white photo from him that was from a bank surveilance tape? and he was in full make up in the black n white photo... again just my opinion.. i think outloud... lol

 

[Arsh]

I don't think there'll be much of the old school mobsters left in the third one... maybe just dying remnants... in both BB and TDK, the freaks have been slaughtering the old school left and right. Scarecrow took out Carmine Falcone, The Joker killed Gambol and the Checyan, and Two-Face presumably killed Sal Maroni... they're out in full force.