The Dark Knight The Joker as a result of Scarecrow's Fear Gas?

[The Guard]

just going back to the joker venom thing, i read somewhere he was like a junkie and even spat this 'venom' at people at some point? was this true or just rubbish.. this was around a year ago but i never hear any more about it now..

No, that's the horrible version of The Joker from THE BATMAN animated series...

 

[Superhobo]

Actually-

That issue came decades later.

-

That's besides the point, either way - he'd said that the Red Hood origin was an invention of Moore, and that the only reason it was kept was because "people like to suck Moor's dick."

Also, unless you want to come up with some inane conspiracy theories, then yeah - that's his origin, more or less.

 

[Joker4Halloween]

Someone's vision on Fear Toxin of Joker. Can you imagine? That'd be nuts!

 

[Tex Hex]

If you really wanted to follow the way the mythology was shown, you would not give him an origin, because he never had one. Never.

That chemical bath thing? That was done in The Man Who Laughs, a one shot, self contained spin off novel from Moore. People just started to assumed that because everyone likes Moors and Burton then liked it so much that he put it in Batman '89 and stuck.

I think TDK is doing it very main comic way, just like the first couple of issues: He just shows up to cause havoc. That is all. No origin. No name. No alias.

Can't believe no one else has rectified this but The Man Who Laughs is by Ed Brubaker-your thinking of "the killing joke" by Moore....plus, its already been pointed out that it the concept was out there yoinks before Moore got his hands on it!

 

[FhFgJg]

If Nolan is going with continuity from BB, then it would be a bit impractical for Joker to be what he is b/c of the fear toxin. At the end Gordon tells Batman about him and he says he'll check it out. Now the end is assumably not too far after the incident with The League Of Shadows attacking Gotham, and i wouldn't imagine this happened just a day after with Joker. So what i mean is....i doubt a man who is just turned nuts by fear toxin is going to be able to nab the police department's attention so quickly without being what he is a while before.

 

[Vaportrail]

I think that it makes perfect sense that the Joker have some sort of contact with the fear gas. We already know that the Scarecrow will be back, so I think it is obvious that Nolan is taking this angle.

I did not know this. Thank you, sir.
I'm waiting for closure on the whole "I'm here to help--AAAAH!" bit.

 

[The Guard]

Guys, The Joker isn't immune to fear gas in the comics because he's immune to fear. He's immune to it because he's made himself immune to toxins.

 

[Crook]

I always thought that sounded absolutely ******ed.

 

[Marx]

Guys, The Joker isn't immune to fear gas in the comics because he's immune to fear. He's immune to it because he's made himself immune to toxins.

Regardless of the reasoning, he is still immune to it. Unless I stepped into a canon argument...

 

[The Guard]

I always thought that sounded absolutely ******ed.

Like a man who falls into chemicals and happens to come out looking like a clown?

 

[regwec]

You could look at the scenario as a matter of a man with extremely variable psychology, with a complex array of chemicals coursing through his veins, not really showing noticeable change following the introduction of a couple more hostile hallucinogens.

It seems logical, in that regard.

 

[The Guard]

I think that's pretty much the way it's supposed to be, yeah.

 

[Marx]

Like a man who falls into chemicals and happens to come out looking like a clown?

Now now now Guard...that's COMPLETELY rational

 

[Magenta666]

i dont want joker to be created with the scarecrow gas, the main reason being i like the idea that joker is an absolute in this movie...he has no really defined origin (like in the comic which i always loved about him)

 

[Carlynn Carnage]

Yeah I dont like that idea. I rather like not knowing what makes him the way he is actually.

 

[Nepenthes]

Scarecrow's gonna go back to Arkham at some stage in the movie and if it all ends with Joker going into Arkham as well (which is pretty much guaranteed) then that would be a perfect opportunity for a wicked ending or even a character arc of sorts, by way of showing the Joker "properly" under the veil of Scarecrows fear gas. By now Crane is suffering from unpredictable bouts of hallucinations and when the Joker is wheeled in helpless and strapped to cart Crane sees him and goes mental.

The reason this would be a great ending for the Joker is that seeing him in all his warped face crazy glory would show that his terror takes a life of it's own even while he's locked inside Arkham's walls. Rather than ending his spree the symbolism of his face is ramped into overdrive just when Batman thinks he's put him down. It's a great mirror to the demon vision of Batman in BB, solidifying Joker as the terror clown of Gotham city in the minds of citizens but also all the other freaks and criminals

 

[gwynplaine]

I really hope we get to see "fear gas Joker" in the film. How could a director resist such a visual. It's gotta be in theret:.

 

[secretsquirrely]

If Nolan is going with continuity from BB, then it would be a bit impractical for Joker to be what he is b/c of the fear toxin. At the end Gordon tells Batman about him and he says he'll check it out. Now the end is assumably not too far after the incident with The League Of Shadows attacking Gotham, and i wouldn't imagine this happened just a day after with Joker. So what i mean is....i doubt a man who is just turned nuts by fear toxin is going to be able to nab the police department's attention so quickly without being what he is a while before.

You make a very good point here. However, think of this for a moment. Looking at the prologue and footage from all of the trailers, I myself have noticed how he starts seeming a bit..rebellious. and that's it, he's just a very smart man with a hugely rebellious side to him. He starts as a true anarchist who plays with his scars as a toy almost. But later in the footage we see he is all out nuts, like when he giggles away in the truck. My point being, I think we see him slowly descend deeper into his insanity. He starts out sane...smart, rebellious, homicidal, but sane. Imagine if he had be doused with Crane's fear toxin some time in the film, this could be the factor that drives him to a man that "just wants to watch the world burn". He'd be smart, rebellious, and utterly looney tunes. Crane started much the same way, so it would be an interesting mirror to the Scarecrow's origins...take a smart, power hungry man, douse him with a crazy toxin, and you have the ultimate villainry. The Joker could be the perfect answer to everything we had wanted in Scarecrow..and due to him already being a bit delusional, he keeps his smarts and everything else is just amplified. Also take note how he's very calm in the prologue. He's also clam with the whole "evening commissioner", despite having been caught. But look at him later with "come on hit me!!". Such a huge emotional flip there. Perhaps he was isnane to begin with, but I think the idea of having a very sane, very smart Joker, slowly slipping into it much like Bruce slipped into his darkness is a pretty nifty idea.

 

[Charlie The Red]

It could very well be that The Joker is comparable to Batman in that he is a symbol for anarchy as Batman is a symbol of order. With that said, perhaps the Joker is just a nihilistic man who feels he should use the same tactics that Batman uses (for good) in the name of evil instead.

There's also an interesting idea in that The Joker applies his make-up just as Batman puts on his mask; but The Joker (in the film) soon begins to believe that he really is this symbol that he has created.

In other words, perhaps the Joker's insanity in The Dark Knight is related to him becoming the false persona he has created. This holds an interesting parallel to Bruce Wayne, in my opinion, and "this monster" of his, and how he sees what could happen to him if he loses control as The Joker did.

In other words, Batman and The Joker are two sides of the same coin, but for some reason, Joker loses his cool, and Batman doesn't.

 

[batman_1982]

Scarecrow's gonna go back to Arkham at some stage in the movie and if it all ends with Joker going into Arkham as well (which is pretty much guaranteed) then that would be a perfect opportunity for a wicked ending or even a character arc of sorts, by way of showing the Joker "properly" under the veil of Scarecrows fear gas. By now Crane is suffering from unpredictable bouts of hallucinations and when the Joker is wheeled in helpless and strapped to cart Crane sees him and goes mental.

The reason this would be a great ending for the Joker is that seeing him in all his warped face crazy glory would show that his terror takes a life of it's own even while he's locked inside Arkham's walls. Rather than ending his spree the symbolism of his face is ramped into overdrive just when Batman thinks he's put him down. It's a great mirror to the demon vision of Batman in BB, solidifying Joker as the terror clown of Gotham city in the minds of citizens but also all the other freaks and criminals

Very good idea!

I really hope we get to see "fear gas Joker" in the film. How could a director resist such a visual. It's gotta be in theret:.

I totally agree, and hope it is in there as well!

 

[Benjaminprog]

There was one episode of the original batman where scarecrow shoots the fear gas on the jokers face and has no effect on him, and the joker just laughed and said, that his gas does now work on the mentally insane..hence, they have nothing to fear... which to me made sense, since they're so detached from reality, that fear is foreign concept, they only have a sense of danger but not fear, i think i read a book about that in college too.

 

[The Joker]

There was one episode of the original batman where scarecrow shoots the fear gas on the jokers face and has no effect on him, and the joker just laughed and said, that his gas does now work on the mentally insane..hence, they have nothing to fear... which to me made sense, since they're so detached from reality, that fear is foreign concept, they only have a sense of danger but not fear, i think i read a book about that in college too.

That's not true. Scarecrow is insane and his own gas works on him.

 

[gwynplaine]

That's not true. Scarecrow is insane and his own gas works on him.

Batman is insane too and the gas also works on himt:.

 

[Nepenthes]

Very good idea!

thanks. I'm gonna feel very clever when it turns up in the movie

just going back to the joker venom thing, i read somewhere he was like a junkie and even spat this 'venom' at people at some point? was this true or just rubbish.. this was around a year ago but i never hear any more about it now..

you might have been reading about the Joker in Morrisons recent issue where he metamorphosis a new personality. He chews venom in his mouth for hours until a guard comes in and undoes his bandages and Joker spews it all over his face and kills him. His brain is also fritzed out and he moves awkwardly like a junkie

.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

the difference between the fear gas working on batman and possibly not working on the joker is that batman/bruce wayne does have fears. such as his fear of bats and of his parents dying which i think boils down to a great fear of lonliness whereas the joker has absolutly nothing to fear