Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 6

[Micromind]

We know at this point they care more about their Bonuses than their ego.

I mean they jeopardized DC brand, JL franchise, relation with directors like Ben Affleck, Zack Snyder (even Whedon, I would say), all for what ? To get those year-end bonuses.

 

[GreenKToo]

We know at this point they care more about their Bonuses than their ego.

Lol, true dat.

 

[Polux]

You and me both Matt. There's so much to look forward to, if indeed it does happen.

Batman killing being addressed
Martha and Lois' original conversation
The league boarding the flying fox/getting ready in the flying fox
The knightmare being addressed
Darkseid
Cyborg's battle mode
Flash vs Parademons
Clark and Lois engagement
The extended 15 minute history lesson
The original hangar scene
The original third act battle
The original Old Bailey Wonder Woman action sequence
Extended sequence of Bruce looking for Arthur in Iceland
Deathstroke breaking Lex out of Arkham
John Cleese as Wintergreen (allegedly)
The Batman warehouse 2.0 scene
Parademons vs Atlantians battle
Extended Superman vs The League fight
Superman taking off and flying to Russia in what will probably be en epic first flight 2.0 scene
Lois' original ending monologue (my sig)
Vic's backstory with the football game and his mother's death
The league visiting the Batcave and meeting Alfred
Vulko
Arthur finding Atlan's dead body
STAR labs fight
The world mourning Superman and crime running rampant

Am I missing something?

As much as I want to believe, I think quite a bit of this is just wishful thinking...

"Deathstroke breaking Lex out", i.e. if Slade broke him out, the misdirection in the after credit scene wouldn't make sense, and it seems to me that the whole sequence was filmed by Zack; I think this is one of those cases when something someone suggested snowballed and was passed along as something that was "definitely in there", although it started in the fans imagination.

Don't wanna be a Debbie Downer, but I've seen it happening in real time plenty of times here, we want something to be in there so much that we start talking non-stop about it, and thank to the allmightly click, bloggers pick up on that, treat it as a rumor, and it grows...and it grows...

 

[Jekecy]

I dont think the studio cares what people think. Releasing an alternate version of the movie could only mean milking the movie for more money so that they can break even on it and it'd undoubtedly win back a lot of goodwill. There is no downside to releasing it.

If the Snyder cut is vastly superior, it makes them look incompetent and unfit of handling this universe. Yeah the fans will be a little appreciative at first, but once that initial enjoyment wears off, everyone's going to be looking at WB with even more doubt. PR would be a nightmare.

 

[Micromind]

If you look at what fans (of DCEU) are saying, they already are having a bad PR, can't imagine how it will get any worse. Other than that, those people who don't like the way Snyder movies look won't ever admit that Snyder's version looks "vastly superior" (even if it is), so I don't see much problem there.

 

[kguillou]

Lol even more of a nightmare than it is now? Ever since the release of the movie in November there has been absolute radio silence on the studio's end, no one, not one producer, actor, whedon, zack or anyone has been able to say a word about the film since November 17th. The only people talking are those tangentally involved with the production. Everyones ashamed of what they put out there, at least getting the real version of the film out there shows a sign of some goodwill and of course more $$ for the studio. PR is already going to have to deal with the inevitable hard questions about this movie once Aquaman's marketing and promotion ramps up, might as well ease the blow.

 

[GothamBat]

If you look at what fans (of DCEU) are saying, they already are having a bad PR, can't imagine how it will get any worse. Other than that, those people who don't like the way Snyder movies look won't ever admit that Snyder's version looks "vastly superior" (even if it is), so I don't see much problem there.

Yeah it really can't. Literally every comment is dragging them through the coals, telling them what absolute f-ups they are and demanding they #ReleaseTheSnyderCut and bring Zack back.

 

[Micromind]

it makes them look incompetent and unfit of handling this universe.

Mustache gate already made them look incompetent and unfit of handling this universe, so..

 

[idiot09]

We already know WB ****ed up with JL. Releasing the director's cut is a step in a right direction for WB.

 

[GothamBat]

As much as I want to believe, I think quite a bit of this is just wishful thinking...

"Deathstroke breaking Lex out", i.e. if Slade broke him out, the misdirection in the after credit scene wouldn't make sense, and it seems to me that the whole sequence was filmed by Zack; I think this is one of those cases when something someone suggested snowballed and was passed along as something that was "definitely in there", although it started in the fans imagination.

Don't wanna be a Debbie Downer, but I've seen it happening in real time plenty of times here, we want something to be in there so much that we start talking non-stop about it, and thank to the allmightly click, bloggers pick up on that, treat it as a rumor, and it grows...and it grows...

Bet u 5$ it's in there.

Seriously though, If Deathstroke's role was just a cameo, it wouldn't have made sense for his appearance in JL to be spoiled months prior by that twitter video Affleck posted. Yes it was to generate excitement for the Batman but that's still robbing it of all the traffic and engagement it would generate when people see the cameo. It'd be like announcing a surprise birthday party. It would be completely counter-intuitive. I don't think it was just a cameo. I don't think Zack would have a one minute long scene of Lex and Deathstroke and that's it. I still firmly believe there was at least a handful of Lex and Deathstroke scenes peppered in throughout the movie. Whether we got to see Deathstroke break Lex out is another story. Although I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for that guard checking on Luthor misdirect scene to have been Whedon's.

 

[Jekecy]

WB can always scrap that bottom even deeper, I don't know why that's hard to fathom.

They'll always get crapped on for releasing JL, but the idea of a superior Snydercut is still intangible. No one really knows what the better film is without both side-by-side. People can only surmise.

If that idea turns into indisputable fact, it makes the studio look unquestionably worse. There's no version of that timeline where people thank and warm up to WB. It's a thankless "favor" to the fans at this point.

 

[Micromind]

You and me both Matt. There's so much to look forward to, if indeed it does happen.

Batman killing being addressed
Martha and Lois' original conversation
The league boarding the flying fox/getting ready in the flying fox
The knightmare being addressed
Darkseid
Cyborg's battle mode
Flash vs Parademons
Clark and Lois engagement
The extended 15 minute history lesson
The original hangar scene
The original third act battle
The original Old Bailey Wonder Woman action sequence
Extended sequence of Bruce looking for Arthur in Iceland
Deathstroke breaking Lex out of Arkham
John Cleese as Wintergreen (allegedly)
The Batman warehouse 2.0 scene
Parademons vs Atlantians battle
Extended Superman vs The League fight
Superman taking off and flying to Russia in what will probably be en epic first flight 2.0 scene
Lois' original ending monologue (my sig)
Vic's backstory with the football game and his mother's death
The league visiting the Batcave and meeting Alfred
Vulko
Arthur finding Atlan's dead body
STAR labs fight
The world mourning Superman and crime running rampant

Am I missing something?

I don't think the bolded parts will be there, and the history lesson is certainly not going to be 15 minutes long,.

 

[Polux]

Bet u 5$ it's in there.

You're on!

Seriously though, If Deathstroke's role was just a cameo, it wouldn't have made sense for his appearance in JL to be spoiled months prior by that twitter video Affleck posted. Yes it was to generate excitement for the Batman but that's still robbing it of all the traffic and engagement it would generate when people see the cameo. It'd be like announcing a surprise birthday party. It would be completely counter-intuitive. I don't think it was just a cameo. I don't think Zack would have a one minute long scene of Lex and Deathstroke and that's it. I still firmly believe there was at least a handful of Lex and Deathstroke scenes peppered in throughout the movie. Whether we got to see Deathstroke break Lex out is another story. Although I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for that guard checking on Luthor misdirect scene to have been Whedon's.

If that's the case, that'd be Whedon's closest approximation to replicating Zack's style (the second one would be the Batman opening scene, but still...).

I'd like to think that at this point and having rewatched his movies so many times, I can't recognize Zack's fingerprints anywhere , which is also not so difficult to see the difference when compared to the rest of the movie...but that presents the question; if Whedon can actually make scenes look like Zack filmed them...why not do that with the rest of the movie??

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be proven wrong in this scenario, I just don't see think it likely...

 

[GothamBat]

You're on!



If that's the case, that'd be Whedon's closest approximation to replicating Zack's style (the second one would be the Batman opening scene, but still...).

I'd like to think that at this point and having rewatched his movies so many times, I can't recognize Zack's fingerprints anywhere , which is also not so difficult to see the difference when compared to the rest of the movie...but that presents the question; if Whedon can actually make scenes look like Zack filmed them...why not do that with the rest of the movie??

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be proven wrong in this scenario, I just don't see think it likely...

What about the Mera/Arthur air bubble scene? That was Whedon wasn't it?

 

[Polux]

What about the Mera/Arthur air bubble scene? That was Whedon wasn't it?

Huh...you got me there, but my instinct tells me it's Whedon, for a few reasons; first one to pop to mind, Momoa's contacts, they look like obvious contacts in Joss' scenes, not so much in Zack's.

My theory about this scene is that in the original Zack scene, we had the conversation with Arthur, Mera and Vulko; Momoa already said that Mera's position is that his only responsibility is Atlantis and that he shouldn't care about the outside world (fitting with Mera's early portrayal in other mediums) and Vulko is more like his heroic mentor and the one who encourages him to go and save the world.

I think in general what Joss "unnecessary" reshoots did, was to take scenes Zack did, keep the "purpose" of the scene, take it from A to Z faster and eliminate bits that are relevant to plot points and story beats that were altogether removed from the movie; just deleting lines in Zack's scene wouldn't do because as we've seen before, every line Terrio writes works for one thing or another, and I think that Zack and team actually developed the technology to have'em talk underwater, but logically, that's a very long and complicated process, and when redoing the scene they didn't have time to do all of that so the air bubble was the easy way out.

 

[Micromind]

What about the Mera/Arthur air bubble scene? That was Whedon wasn't it?

I think some parts of that scene were reshot by Whedon.

 

[Micromind]

If you watch that scene closely, Mera's hair is wet while Arthur's hair is dry.

The scenes involving Momoa were reshot by Whedon.

 

[kguillou]

You know, for me personally, even more than the Superman scenes, I want the Arthur/Atlantis stuff restored soooo badly. Getting to explore/spend time in Atlantis was one of the big gets of this movie for me and Whedon eliminated almost all of it. The Atlantis scenes we did get had no context behind them. I'm sure we got a solid 10-15 of character building footage there that was taken out.

 

[GothamBat]

Huh...you got me there, but my instinct tells me it's Whedon, for a few reasons; first one to pop to mind, Momoa's contacts, they look like obvious contacts in Joss' scenes, not so much in Zack's.

My theory about this scene is that in the original Zack scene, we had the conversation with Arthur, Mera and Vulko; Momoa already said that Mera's position is that his only responsibility is Atlantis and that he shouldn't care about the outside world (fitting with Mera's early portrayal in other mediums) and Vulko is more like his heroic mentor and the one who encourages him to go and save the world.

I think in general what Joss "unnecessary" reshoots did, was to take scenes Zack did, keep the "purpose" of the scene, take it from A to Z faster and eliminate bits that are relevant to plot points and story beats that were altogether removed from the movie; just deleting lines in Zack's scene wouldn't do because as we've seen before, every line Terrio writes works for one thing or another, and I think that Zack and team actually developed the technology to have'em talk underwater, but logically, that's a very long and complicated process, and when redoing the scene they didn't have time to do all of that so the air bubble was the easy way out.

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make...? But anyway, whether Whedon did inserts to trim plot threads or shot the whole scene from scratch, it proves he's capable of approximating Zack's style pretty darn accurately. I don't even think the guard discovering Luthor's body double was particularly Snydery to be honest. The medium shot when the bald dude turns around, in particular, came across as kind of flat, depthless and MCU-esque. The pacing was also distinctly not Snydery but obviously that comes down to the editing so you can't really tell from that...

 

[GothamBat]

You know, for me personally, even more than the Superman scenes, I want the Arthur/Atlantis stuff restored soooo badly. Getting to explore/spend time in Atlantis was one of the big gets of this movie for me and Whedon eliminated almost all of it. The Atlantis scenes we did get had no context behind them. I'm sure we got a solid 10-15 of character building footage there that was taken out.

We didn't even get to see Atlantis at all my dude. The motherbox shrine is on the outskirts of the city. (According to Momoa's statements)

 

[Polux]

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make...? But anyway, whether Whedon did inserts to trim plot threads or shot the whole scene from scratch, it proves he's capable of approximating Zack's style pretty darn accurately. I don't even think the guard discovering Luthor's body double was particularly Snydery to be honest. The medium shot when the bald dude turns out, in particular, came across as kind of flat, depthless and MCU-esque. The pacing was also distinctly not Snydery but obviously that comes down to the editing so you can't really tell from that...

The point I was trying to make is that my gut tells me the bubble scene is Whedon's, and I was explaining my reasoning why I think that's the case...

That said, it's very difficult to say due to the nature of the reshoots (some complete scenes, some inserts) and I could be completely wrong.

 

[idiot09]

If that idea turns into indisputable fact

Bro, face it. Its a Zack Snyder film. Its bound to be divisive to a certain extent. The people who will criticise WB for being dumb with JL, are already doing it. I think releasing it, is a step in the right direction. They did the whole apology tour for bloggers last summer, so its not completely out of question.

 

[GothamBat]

The point I was trying to make is that my gut tells me the bubble scene is Whedon's, and I was explaining my reasoning why I think that's the case...

That said, it's very difficult to say due to the nature of the reshoots (some complete scenes, some inserts) and I could be completely wrong.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude I just legit couldn't understand what point you were making

Anyone think, since they snuck in SO much Snyder cut footage in all the trailers and spots, that they also might have snuck in some of the original score too? This Aquaman spot in particular has some really rad music accompanying it and it sounds like it might be part of that original Junkie XL score.

 

[idiot09]

But anyway, whether Whedon did inserts to trim plot threads or shot the whole scene from scratch, it proves he's capable of approximating Zack's style pretty darn accurately.

Dude we both know thats not true. Apart from a couple of scenes maybe...none of his scenes looked Snyder-ish. The most blatant were the inserts, which looked noticeably horrible.

From what i've heard the underwater scene is actually a combination of Snyder, Whedon and Wan. But when they changed to Whedon's reshoots its noticeable because its usually a closeup(cause they dont want to show Momoa shirtless) and Momoa's face looks a bit weird.

 

[Polux]

Sorry I didn't mean to sound rude I just legit couldn't understand what point you were making

Anyone think, since they snuck in SO much Snyder cut footage in all the trailers and spots, that they also might have snuck in some of the original score too? This Aquaman spot in particular has some really rad music accompanying it and it sounds like it might be part of that original Junkie XL score.

Don't worry about it man, maybe I didn't express myself clearly.

Man, there's so many good bits in that Aquaman spot, you can even see Atlan's body behind Arthur....