Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition)

[Micromind]

Here's a concept art for a scene with Steppy (Original design)

Spoiler

 

[obredaan]

It's annoying how pics featuring the theatrical Steppenwolf that Snyder has shared over the years are now used as a type of 'gotcha'. "See, only now in hindsight is Snyder claiming that the theatrical version wasn't his version". So which is more believable: a) Snyder had one design for BvS and more or less the same during JL previs but then all of a sudden decided to change the design completely or b) Warner made him change it in the hopes of making a less scary, more mainstream movie?

I only used the image to call out the previous poster who blatantly blamed Joss Whedon for the design of Steppenwolf. Its fairly obvious that Snyder designed that version of Steppenwolf regardless of being force to or not. I don't see how that's a negative. If Snyder wants to change the design or make it more like his original intent than that's fine. Sorry for defending Joss.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I only used the image to call out the previous poster who blatantly blamed Joss Whedon for the design of Steppenwolf. Its fairly obvious that Snyder designed that version of Steppenwolf regardless of being force to or not. I don't see how that's a negative. If Snyder wants to change the design or make it more like his original intent than that's fine. Sorry for defending Joss.

No, you were right saying Whedon wasn't to blame. I should have specified I wasn't talking about you with that post.

 

[obredaan]

No, you were right saying Whedon wasn't to blame. I should have specified I wasn't talking about you with that post.

OK sorry I misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Comicbookguy339]

OK sorry I misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up

I can totally see how you would have thought I was essentially replying to your post, totally my bad.

But yeah, i see this "Snyder is lying about everything" narrative making the rounds. Probably has something to do with the prevalence of conspiracy theories. On the one hand, we can look at all the evidence that supports what Snyder has been saying (concept art, previs, deleted scenes etc) and on the other hand we can believe that this is all some genius ploy by Snyder to deceive everybody by rewriting history...or sth.

 

[Micromind]

I only used the image to call out the previous poster who blatantly blamed Joss Whedon for the design of Steppenwolf. Its fairly obvious that Snyder designed that version of Steppenwolf regardless of being force to or not. I don't see how that's a negative. If Snyder wants to change the design or make it more like his original intent than that's fine. Sorry for defending Joss.

After Snyder left, whatever Joss did was what their team (Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg) thought would make the movie more family friendly (or something like that), whether they actually improved the movie is subjective.

Most people here are more interested in what ZS is going to show us than blaming Whedon.

 

[kguillou]

I still contend that the TC version isnt a bad design—i think the problem MOST of us had was that his CGI rendering was incredibly poor and unfinished. He would’ve looked just fine if the VFX teams had the proper time to finish rendering him. Its all about time, people. Thanos would’ve looked like crap too had Disney only given their VFX teams six months to work on him for Infinity War and Endgame.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

After Snyder left, whatever Joss did was what their team (Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg) thought would make the movie more family friendly (or something like that), whether they actually improved the movie is subjective.

Most people here are more interested in what ZS is going to show us than blaming Whedon.

It's fun to dunk on him from time to time though. I was actually sympathetic towards him when the movie came out because it was obvious he didn't have the time to do it right (Tsujihara wanted his bonus). But now that we know he insisted on that WW/Flash boob scene (he shot it with a stunt double after Gal refused), **** talked Snyder in front of the cast and crew (according to Kevin Smith) and acted like a total diva on set (that's the most generous interpretation of what Fisher has said) then I feel it's perfectly ok to make fun of him. Just imagine for a second that Whedon thought he was doing great lol. If that's really true then he deserves the clowning.

 

[souperman]

I still contend that the TC version isnt a bad design—i think the problem MOST of us had was that his CGI rendering was incredibly poor and unfinished. He would’ve looked just fine if the VFX teams had the proper time to finish rendering him. Its all about time, people. Thanos would’ve looked like crap too had Disney only given their VFX teams six months to work on him for Infinity War and Endgame.

I agree that the TC SW "could" have worked if done a bit better. But I also think Thanos was not THAT great.

It's funny, the renders look great and the stills are good for both in most regards but the movement is lacking. Thanos is better than the TC SW but not miles.

It may be only me but I think even Hulk looked and was animated better in Avengers1-2 than in the following films. In Ragnarok he looked a bit "more" cartoonish and in IW and EG he looked even less "real" If you see what I mean.

Maybe it was intentional? Soften him up a bit? More likable? Not sure. Just lost something IMO.

I think Thanos... for me... suffered from being a bit overly roided up. I know they are not going for 100% "real" to fool the GA. These are fantasy characters so people can accept the surreal look more.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I still contend that the TC version isnt a bad design—i think the problem MOST of us had was that his CGI rendering was incredibly poor and unfinished. He would’ve looked just fine if the VFX teams had the proper time to finish rendering him. Its all about time, people. Thanos would’ve looked like crap too had Disney only given their VFX teams six months to work on him for Infinity War and Endgame.

Still wouldn't have been consistent with what we saw in BvS but sure. I feel like if you put yourself in Snyder 's shoes then it's like you almost have to change the design for the Snyder cut. It would probably be easier to just put more work into the theatrical version but Steppenwolf was the butt of so many jokes that it's better to distance yourself from that iteration as much as possible.

It's funny, the renders look great and the stills are good for both in most regards but the movement is lacking. Thanos is better than the TC SW but not miles.

I have to completely disagree with you on that one. I don't think they're even comparable, that's how much better Thanos was (or, alternatively, how awful Steppenwolf was)..

 

[Spider-jedi]

After Snyder left, whatever Joss did was what their team (Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Jon Berg) thought would make the movie more family friendly (or something like that), whether they actually improved the movie is subjective.

Most people here are more interested in what ZS is going to show us than blaming Whedon.

Seems more 50 50 to me. most people who want to see what ZS is doing also want to blame JW for everything that went wrong with the movie. Yes JW is an easy target and his attitude does him no favors. I personally just couldn't get on that train.
As must as WB is mostly to blame and made some crap choices. When your in their position and worried about making your money back, the pressure to make the investors happy is huge

Back to the design im glad ZS is going back to his original. Although i thought it was over designed(same applies to the cyborg look) it wasnt boring like what we got.

 

[souperman]

Still wouldn't have been consistent with what we saw in BvS but sure. I feel like if you put yourself in Snyder 's shoes then it's like you almost have to change the design for the Snyder cut. It would probably be easier to just put more work into the theatrical version but Steppenwolf was the butt of so many jokes that it's better to distance yourself from that iteration as much as possible.



I have to completely disagree with you on that one. I don't think they're even comparable, that's how much better Thanos was (or, alternatively, how awful Steppenwolf was)..

I agree Thanos was better but not by miles. Theatrically they look better, or go by faster....Maybe watching on TV it is easier to notice the lack of nuance? Hulk in A1-2 and Snoke was much better IMO...
Just my impression.

 

[kguillou]

Thanos looked so natural. Hands down one of the best cgi characters in movie history along with Gollum from LOTR. You could tell the VFX team put in serious work to make him lifelike in how he moved, his facial expressions etc. Steppenwolf on the other hand, every time he cracked a smirk he turned into a PS2 model, he looked incredibly unfinished.

 

[souperman]

Thanos looked so natural. Hands down one of the best cgi characters in movie history along with Gollum from LOTR. You could tell the VFX team put in serious work to make him lifelike in how he moved, his facial expressions etc. Steppenwolf on the other hand, every time he cracked a smirk he turned into a PS2 model, he looked incredibly unfinished.

For me some Thanos scenes were very good , others stiff...at least I notice it more now.
Gollum was very good. Snoke and Hulk A1-2 were very good.

TC SW looks acceptable in some scenes and stills. The facial motion is really off. Mouth moves strangely.

Well, I guess it will be less an issue with the new SW ! ; )

 

[kguillou]

Its just gonna be REAL interesting hearing Hinds’ dialogue comingn out of THAT face now!

 

[dhandler01]

Remember the Apokolips Priests ? Those also were covered with spike armors and had some humanoid form underneath. Steppenwolf was also going to be like that but the WB Exces wanted less scary version so I think they made Snyder change the appearance.

Posted by- source

Ugh...I hope I never see these that stuff looks awful. (imho)

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Ugh...I hope I never see these that stuff looks awful. (imho)

But you already saw them in the theatrical cut lol.

 

[heatvision38]

Still wouldn't have been consistent with what we saw in BvS but sure. I feel like if you put yourself in Snyder 's shoes then it's like you almost have to change the design for the Snyder cut. It would probably be easier to just put more work into the theatrical version but Steppenwolf was the butt of so many jokes that it's better to distance yourself from that iteration as much as possible.



I have to completely disagree with you on that one. I don't think they're even comparable, that's how much better Thanos was (or, alternatively, how awful Steppenwolf was)..

I think we also have to keep in mind that the Steppenwolf we saw in BvS was filtered through the Kryptonian liquid geo technology and distance. So you can take some liberty with how different he may appear in JL. And even Thanos looked different over the course of movies.

 

[souperman]

I like the Apokolips concept art stuff. Looks wild but well done.

I think all the SW and Darkseid/ Apokolips stuff will look and feel “ other-worldly” like the Kryptonian world.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I think we also have to keep in mind that the Steppenwolf we saw in BvS was filtered through the Kryptonian liquid geo technology and distance. So you can take some liberty with how different he may appear in JL. And even Thanos looked different over the course of movies.

Oh sure, they had a built-in explanation there. Still feels like a bait-and-switch imo. Although I'm very biased. Like I said earlier in the thread, that Steppenwolf at the end of BvS really got a reaction out of me.

Has this been posted?

 

[heatvision38]

I really loved that scene as well and it had me excited for Zack's plans for Apokolips (along with the Lex scene at the end which was a creepy portent).

I guess I would have to see the BvS Steppenwolf next to Zack's intended JL version to compare.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

I still can't believe they cut that Steppenwolf scene from BvS in theaters. Without it Lex's final scene with Batman makes zero sense. I remember thinking "the hell is he going on about?". Even more so than during his other scenes lol.

 

[chintai80]

I still can't believe they cut that Steppenwolf scene from BvS in theaters. Without it Lex's final scene with Batman makes zero sense.

lol yea i remember watching it in theaters and he's referring to darkseid - "he is coming!"
u had to infer that he got all this info when he told the scout ship to show him everything.

but the ultimate edition made it much more clear when they showed him having "communion" with steppenwolf.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

lol yea i remember watching it in theaters and he's referring to darkseid - "he is coming!"
u had to infer that he got all this info when he told the scout ship to show him everything.

but the ultimate edition made it much more clear when they showed him having "communion" with steppenwolf.

I know that Snyder has clarified that it is indeed a transmission but it would have also worked if it was just part of the scout ship's archive. Either way, it should have stayed in the movie to begin with.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

It's truly amazing how many pages of discussion we've gotten out of the character of *checks notes* Steppenwolf.