Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League (The Snyder Cut Edition)

[Aurakles]

I think these characters can work with almost any tone.
Remember when Seigel and Shuster did comics about an outlaw Superman fighting against the social order? Remember when he was hunted by the police while throwing politicians around and trapping rich people in coal mines, when he was a radical advocate for the working class?
Change in tone is the how that became Christopher Reeve.

If it wasn't for creators willing to change their tones, Batman would have been killed by the Comics Code Authority.
The flexibility of these characters may be their greatest attribute, it's what's allowed them to survive, it's why the have such broad fan bases.

 

[J.Drangal]

I thought the structure of the movie could have been paced better as well. I love the movie but it took me a couple of viewings for it to work, but I still feeling the pacing and structure is weird at times. Felt like a script thing. The concepts were there.

I think what didn't fully work in the first act is that Clark isn't really active in the present. Sure he save people on an oil rig and... that's about it. There's flashbacks bringing elements to understand the character but it doesn't feel tied to the story. Add the lack of dialog for Clark as an adult, and it comes hard to connect with Cavill. When he's talking to Lois at the cemetary, I feel like I still don't know him...

I don't know how they pulled it off in BB, but they did it masterfully. They had flashbacks, flashbacks within flashbacks, and the movie has such a great pace to it.

Begins worked better because there's a logic for each flashback. We can understand why Bruce Wayne is remembering a thing and how this memory will impact his choices for the next thing. Present and past are really tied together. Plus, it was easier to connect with Bale than Cavill, as his role was more active and also had someone to talk to from the very first scene.

I don't think there were flashback within flashback though.

 

[Wheels]

Yeah, Clark is such a passenger in his own life story that it really bothers me. Everything is about his daddies and what they decided for Clark. That's the heart of why I don't love Man of Steel.

It's a yeah but movie.

 

[J.Drangal]

Yeah, Clark is such a passenger in his own life story that it really bothers me. Everything is about his daddies and what they decided for Clark. That's the heart of why I don't love Man of Steel.

Yeah, that really sums up everything for me. I'm sure that all this film needed was just one rewrite. The elements are there, but either it just scratch the surface, either it's just a bit convoluted.
All in all, I like the film, there's greats scenes in it like the first flight, but it lacks emotionnal support imo.

 

[SupermanFan]

I love Man of Steel, it’s my favourite modern day comic book movie for sure. Of course there’s a bit if Superman bias in there but I think it’s a wonderful telling of the origin. The film has the best Krypton ever committed to film, Zod is an A plus villain, the best showing of Lois Lane in any of the Superman movies and Clark’s journey is wonderful.

Some minor tweaks would make it flawless for me though such as;

- Pa Kent’s “maybe” line followed with him realising what he’s saying and following it with “no of course hit, but you have to be more careful”.
- Pa Kent’s death re-edited so it’s a much tighter time lapse between Clark taking his Mum to the overpass and Jonathan in peril. Thus making it a quicker decision rather than making it look like he’s waiting and just watching. I’d also have had Ma Kent holding Clark back not the other way around.
- A title card 3 Months later between Superman killing Zod and the scene with Swanwick.

 

[Tra-El]

Yeah, Clark is such a passenger in his own life story that it really bothers me. Everything is about his daddies and what they decided for Clark. That's the heart of why I don't love Man of Steel.

It's a yeah but movie.

I think the key here is that Jonathan NOR Jor-EL decided anything for Clark. The theme to Man of Steel was about sacrifice, consequence and most importantly, choice. Both of his fathers were there for him when the time was right, but ultimately, they left it up to Clark in the end to choose. Clark was the one who walked out of the Scout Ship wearing the Blue, Yellow and Red. But that was an easy choice givin that at an early age, young Clark was already saving those in danger using his powers for the greater of good. But make no mistake, Clark was at a crossroads. Nothing was decided for him. He chose heroism in the end and what was deemed right by the influences surrounding his existence and gifts.

 

[Wheels]

I don't find the oil rig scene or the bus scene sufficient, guys. I just don't.

Imagine the power of Clark really taking issue with Jonathan wanting him to hide. Make Clark a little reckless but his heart is in the right place. He feels the need to use his powers because of what's inside HIM. Calling him to action.

I like the idea of Clark using police scanners under Jonathan's nose to stop crimes, and then he and Jonathan have a big argument about it.

What does that scene tell you about Superman in comparison to this type of scene we often get:

Jor-El: "I am your space daddy. It is my will that you be the savior of Earth."

Clark: "Sure."

The whole concept delutes the importance of Superman's upbringing as well as the character's agency from my perspective..

 

[Predator jp]

everybody told Clark what to do and think so it's not surprising if many audiences felt Clark is such a passenger.

 

[J.Drangal]

Yeah, it always bugged me a bit. I get that Jor-El wanted his son to be free of choosing his own destiny, and that by the events he's forced to be on Earth and a bridge between two worlds... But there's also a so strong emphase, almost a prophecy on how big his role will be, etc, that it kind of goes againt the first point to me... Or maybe I'm just dumb.

I think it would have been simplier having each father representing the struggle of having to choose between being Kal-El the last son of Krypton, or Clark Kent the Smallville farmer. Then having the main character being more active and ultimately creating Superman, the synthesis between the power of the first one and the goodheart of the second.

Those themes are in there, and many others. That's what I like this saga, there's a lot af layers. But, without saying that audiences should be spoonfeeded, I think things could have been more "fluid", for a lack of better word.

 

[Micromind]

Everyone told something to Clark Kent/Superman but he didn't take all of the advice, for example, when Zod asked him to be a part of his team in rebuilding a New Krypton, he refused.

Listening to others and taking their opinions/advice is not a bad thing, in fact it makes Superman more down to Earth, but ultimately, he's the one who decides what is the right thing. For example, these interactions show that Superman is fully capable to make his own mind.

 

[Aurakles]

None of Clarks mentor figures make decisions for all, they all offer him choices, but difficult choices. They don't give him orders, but they do give him the ability to make informed decisions. They stress the fact that all actions have consequences which can be unforeseen. Clark is taught that simply having your heart in the right place isn't enough, that something done with the best of intentions can make things worse.

Jonathan doesn't lay out a lifeplan for Clark, he says "Maybe" and "you'll have to decide what kind of man you want to grow up to be". Jonathan admits he doesn't have all the answers, he gives what advice he can but leaves it up to Clark to make his own decisions.
Jor-El and Lara blame Kryptons destruction on a lack of free will, it's why they deliberate choose not to go to Earth. They wanted Kal-El, the first Kryptonian in centuries unrestrained by programming from the codex to be the judge of whether Krypton should be given a second chance.

Man Of Steel shows a thoughtful Superman who is aware of world shaking potential of his actions. He knows that a single careless act could have devastating unintended consequences.
Throughout the film he wrestles with difficult decisions, he doesn't instinctively know what the best course is, he needs to try to figure it out, just like we do. That to me makes him one of the most relatable superheroes in cinema.

 

[J.Drangal]

@Micromind and @Aurakles
Great posts !

Like said earlier, all those things are definitely here. I just feels like it could have been delivered better, especially when it comes to Jor El or the scene choices in the first act to introduce Clark and help the audience to connect with him.

All in all, I'm looking forward to see the Snyder Cut and finally forget the frankenstein movie we had ! Even if we can have some reservations on a movie (and who doesn't ?), the integrity of the director vision should ever prime.

 

[SupermanFan]

It’s funny cause I do like the TC because there are some great geek moments. Infact I remember going crazy in the cinema at the end when Superman did the shirt rip. But when I watch it knowing what I know all the stuff that’s missing it just leaves me feeling a bit hollow even though as I’m watching I do enjoy it. Don’t know if that makes any sense lol

 

[Arachnerd]

Good thing the shirt rip scene was Snyder's then.

JL 2017 felt like a badly put-together fan film with a high budget. That's how I see it.

 

[J.Drangal]

Minus the Jesus parallel, this is how I see it :

 

[Arachnerd]

I could not think of a more perfect comparison than precisely that.

 

[SupermanFan]

Good thing the shirt rip scene was Snyder's then.

JL 2017 felt like a badly put-together fan film with a high budget. That's how I see it.

I’m so glad it was, can you imagine that with that lip thing going on?!

I personally think it’s better than that, I think if it wasn’t for Cavill’s lip I’d be fine with it. It doesn’t really hold up against the other DCEU Films though, it lacks the epic feel of Snyder’s previous two movies. I think for sure Snyder’s film would have been better. It’s kind of weird cause I don’t think WB were necessarily wrong to want to course correct but at the same time they rushed into that and as a result the audiences they did have left when JL rolled around. I think that’s what AT&T have seen, without Snyder’s arc the narrative of the DCEU has lost focus and I have to admit now the last few years have been kind of boring. We’ve had good films but it’s like there wasn’t much to look forward to. AT&T know the money they were making was pretty good even if it did come in below expectations. I just can’t help but think what if had they left alone and just let Snyder finish out his arc.

 

[J.Drangal]

Warner really messed this up big time.
Right after BvS reception and the start of Justice League filming, they should have forget the idea of making a huge success out of this film. They should have know that releasing a pure Snyder movie wouldn't make worst numbers than a film edited to hell.
Also, letting him finished his version, even a shortened one, would have, at least, offered something that had keep its integrity and that could eventually be discovered by an another audience in the future. Especially with Snyder, a director who's not a stranger to this phenomenon... Just look where we are now. =)
Before the greenlight for the Snyder Cut, this saga was just a decapited project which I had close to no desire to revisit, neither to share. It just felt vain.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[SupermanFan]

Warner really messed this up big time. Right after BvS reception and the start of Justice League filming, they should have forget the idea of making a huge success out of this film. They should have know that releasing a pure Snyder movie wouldn't make worst numbers than a film edited to hell.
Letting him finished his version, even if it meaned to shorten it, would have at least let the possibility for this take to keeps its integrity and eventually be discovered by an another audience in the future. Especially with Snyder, a director who's not a stranger to this phenomenon... And just look where we are now. =)
Before this greenlight for the Snyder Cut, this saga was just this decapited project and I had close to no desire to revisit it, neither to share it. It just felt vain.

I think when they decided to stick with Snyder on JL right after BvS the best course was to stick with him, in hindsight they’ve looked like complete fools. I bet AT&T walked in and were like what the F have you idiots been doing?

Seeing out Snyder’s JL would have made way more sense, they should have also let Ayer release his cut of Squad especially as it was meant to be an appetiser for Justice League.

 

[kguillou]

Its little changes like this that I'm completely befuddled as to what the point of the change was.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Whedon's shots are so damn embarrassing when put next to Snyder's.

 

[SupermanFan]

I was really impressed with this by A.B. Director



I also think the way Superman is shown in this teaser is exactly how you promote it with him. They made a massive mistake leaving him out of the marketing going into the theatrical cut.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Its little changes like this that I'm completely befuddled as to what the point of the change was.

They probably reshot some of the Cyborg scenes prior to this and in order to maintain continuity he had to have the hoodie on and thus they had reshoot that shot of him seeing the batsignal as well. And he probably has a hoodie on in the reshot footage because it means less CGI work. I may be completely wrong, we'll see once the Snyder cut comes out, but right now this is my theory.

 

[The Guard]

Its little changes like this that I'm completely befuddled as to what the point of the change was.

They didn't want the reveal of Cyborg in all his cyborg glory to be him standing in a window.

They wanted it to be while joining the rest of the team. Guessing Whedon added a good bit of "hiding" who he was after the accident.