Zak Penn: Insightful interview

[jrd550]

I still don't see why Marvel hires this guy to write every goddamn marvel flick.

The fact that they've also entrusted him with Avengers is saddening.

Well said... I think he's one of Ari's boys, along with Kinberg... they've all got to go and get some new blood in the mix...

 

[YJ1]

Nice to see some new info finally coming out. It's also nice to see a mention of fans' disapproval of X3, maybe Zak's learned something.

Some fans disapproval, not ALL fans. Whinny fanboys and the jealous competition aside, X3 was a quality film that delivered on many levels. Seriously, most of the whining that continues to this day come from fanboys who are still pissed that they killed Cyclops and didn't adapt the Phoenix story straight from the books, etc. Also, the Superman factor came in to play. Superman Returns was smacked around by X3 at the box office. General movie fans preferred X3 over SR. This drove DC/Supes fans crazy and that's forever burned in to their psyche. Zak should forget the fanboy idiots and focus on Hulk and Avengers. From what I've read, I love his take on the Hulk character.

 

[Sava]

all those questions yet they didnt ask him if the script was finished?...

 

[<borkis>]

I never saw Aliens and Alien.
So can someone say what you think will happen in the movie???
Like what Bruce Banner will make in the begining of the movie???
I know the movie isn´t even been filmed but from what you guys know from Aliens and Alien what can we expect???

Do yourself a favour... go rent Alien and Aliens. Damn those are good movies.
(Make sure to get the special editions too... the reinserted scenes in Aliens make all the difference)

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Some fans disapproval, not ALL fans. Whinny fanboys and the jealous competition aside, X3 was a quality film that delivered on many levels. Seriously, most of the whining that continues to this day come from fanboys who are still pissed that they killed Cyclops and didn't adapt the Phoenix story straight from the books, etc. Also, the Superman factor came in to play. Superman Returns was smacked around by X3 at the box office. General movie fans preferred X3 over SR. This drove DC/Supes fans crazy and that's forever burned in to their psyche. Zak should forget the fanboy idiots and focus on Hulk and Avengers. From what I've read, I love his take on the Hulk character.

Sorry if i sound rude, but this is a crock of ****. I am more of an X-Men fan than i will EVER be a Superman fan. In fact, this time last year i didnt even like the character, or the Reeve movies in fact. Yet i think SR is 100 TIMES the movie X3 is, SR made my respect and love for the character grow HUGELY, and i am now reading the comics. However, i will always be more of an X-fan, as i grew up watching TAS REPEATEDLY as a kid.

X3 was a big steaming pile of **** IMO, and ZAK PENN, sorry, but dont be telling us, the fans that we are wrong for thinking of X3 in such a way. I and many other people think it was ****, and my opinion will never change, so lets movie on.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

That was not really envouraging given that he gave the 2 influences that I liked least about the Hulk, the TV show and Bruce Jones run which even had Bruce Banner using the strength of the Hulk at times.

However, anybody deserves the benefit of the doubt and given my potential influence on the subject my best option is maybe to be optimistic about the project until I see the movie and can form my own judgement based on my own tastes. (As fun as it is to gripe )

 

[HULKFish]

Yeah, but the fanboy bashing he received for X3 was completely justified.

The bashing for X2 was much, much lower, so the lesson is the crappier the movie the worse the fanboy bashing will be.

LOL!! Nice post!! I didn't realize the writer he was referencing too... If there isn't much HULK in the movie there won't be much to the movie. As much as a good story helps the reason we'd be watching the movie is to see the big green guy!!

At the same time though he said an action movie and comparisons to the Bourne movies which is all good things...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Yeah, but the fanboy bashing he received for X3 was completely justified.

I totally disagree. For me, X3 was as good if not better than the others. That was also the verdict of the masses at the box office...where it comfortably beat Superman Returns and Batman Begins.

I think a lot of the fanboy vitriol was stoked by Harry Knowles at Aintitcool...and we all know about his history with Brett Ratner, so clearly he had his own agenda.

Was the movie perfect - no.

- It wasn't exactly the Phoenix story the hardcore fans wanted.
- They killed Cyclops.
- The movie did seem a bit short.

But the bashing X-3 got was in no way justified, the negativity was way over the top, and clearly orchestrated by Harry Knowles (who was bashing it 6 months before release).

The bashing for X2 was much, much lower, so the lesson is the crappier the movie the worse the fanboy bashing will be.

You know I have yet to read a constructive critique of X-3. Could you either link me to one or give your own thoughts on why it was a bad movie?

Since I don't want to get too far off topic (this is the Hulk boards after all). Here is my (hopefully constructive) criticism of the first Hulk movie, which I would probably give 6/10.

Problem #1 - Pacing

It just took far too long to get to the action, I mean we must have been an hour into the movie before we get the fight with the gamma-dogs!

If possible, start with a big action sequence. If not, make sure you have something by about the 30 minute mark (end of the 1st Act).

Problem #2 - The Villain

Okay, I'll gloss over the fact they had to steal a Thor villain (The Absorbing Man)...and Zak, if you ever get the Thor gig, for goodness sake email me or at the very least check out my brief synopsis on my website:

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/shrine2.htm

However, I digress. The Hulk movie never, ever establishes the villain as a threat. So theres no build up to that confrontation.

I would have created the Absorbing Man earlier in the movie and then had a scene whereby he robs a bank and takes on some cops in the city. This way we set up how dangerous and powerful he is. Also you could have some really strong imagery or the Absorbing Man absorbing bricks/concrete textures, or even bullets and growing to giant size.

Problem #3 - The Climax

The whole end fight was simply a confusing mess, which leaves the audience unsatisfied. Always leave on a high note, and the high note of the Hulk movie was clearly the battle with the military.

Personally I would have loved to see the Hulk vs. Absorbing Man in the middle of a city as the climax. Not some pitch black, strobe light jive. Stylistically I get the point (the flickering images are like snapshots of comic book panels), but it just didn't work for me.

Problem #4 - The Hulk

With the Hulk muted and silent, it really means audiences empathise less with the character. Where was the "HULK SMASH!" or "Puny Banner!" lines fans know and love. I mean it doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but even Frankenstein's monster (upon which Hulk is based) talks and that endears you to the character.

 

[Eros]

Sorry if i sound rude, but this is a crock of ****. I am more of an X-Men fan than i will EVER be a Superman fan. In fact, this time last year i didnt even like the character, or the Reeve movies in fact. Yet i think SR is 100 TIMES the movie X3 is, SR made my respect and love for the character grow HUGELY, and i am now reading the comics. However, i will always be more of an X-fan, as i grew up watching TAS REPEATEDLY as a kid.

X3 was a big steaming pile of **** IMO, and ZAK PENN, sorry, but dont be telling us, the fans that we are wrong for thinking of X3 in such a way. I and many other people think it was ****, and my opinion will never change, so lets movie on.

I compeletly agree man, and remove the action scene from X-3, and you have nothing the resembles a cohesive plot.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I totally disagree. For me, X3 was as good if not better than the others. That was also the verdict of the masses at the box office...where it comfortably beat Superman Returns and Batman Begins.

So, because more people went to see it, that means it was a better made movie than X1, X2, SR and BB? So, Titanic is the best movie ever made then.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Lets not make this a SR vs. X3 thread, or an X3 sucked one please. There are millions of those on this site. Speak your peace there.

As for his comments, he lost me when he said BB was in continuity with Batman. How can you think that? That is idiocy. Batman Forever would have been more appropriate, and I hope that is what he meant. I like the Alien to Aliens comparison though. I loved the first Hulk film, and don't want to see a reboot this early in the game. Vague sequel is fine.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

So, because more people went to see it, that means it was a better made movie than X1, X2, SR and BB?

It doesn't mean it was necessarily better, simply that it was more popular.

That popularity is the only objective yardstick we have for measuring success.

So, Titanic is the best movie ever made then.

Actually adjusting for inflation Gone with the Wind would be the best under that criteria.

But clearly a lot of people enjoyed Titanic, it also had considerable critical success at the Oscars; although the latter is more subjective than objective.

Bad movies tend not to make a profit at the box office (Catwoman, Elektra, Superman Returns etc.)

X-3 clearly turned a profit at the box office, whereas Superman Returns didn't. So while you may hate X-3, clearly the majority were entertained by it.

However, you failed to add why you hated the movie...?

 

[imagine12]

So, because more people went to see it, that means it was a better made movie than X1, X2, SR and BB? So, Titanic is the best movie ever made then.

Lol ok, well i agree X3 was a totally scrambled together mess of Halle berry demanding more screen time and getting it, Cyclops wanting to do Superman and dying, and magneto never actually opting to use pheonix throughout the entire last scene even though he spent the movie trying to get her.... Perhaps Titanic isn't the best comparisson here,, i mean X3 may have made some money but it certainly didn't get like 10 oscars either..the moral to the story though is good, the masses don't always necessarily know what's best, actually they usually don't, well ok they don't, perhaps the parents saw it and thought the X3 characters might confuse their children with Sesame Street and kill an hour and a half away from Blue's Clues.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

It doesn't mean it was necessarily better, simply that it was more popular.

That popularity is the only objective yardstick we have for measuring success.

I understand where you are coming from. I was just trying to point out that a movie's box office success doesn't necessarily mean that it is automatically better than other movies that failed to gross as much. Being more popular doesn't mean it's better, I think we can agree on that.

However, you failed to add why you hated the movie...?

I never said I hated the movie.

 

[Limey Git]

Note to Zak: The majority of Incredible Hulk comic fans HATED, I repeat... HATED Bruce Jones and Axel Alonso's run. Hell, it almost killed the book!

I'd like to echo that statement. I dropped the book for the first time in about fifteen years about a quarter of the way into that run. Terrible, terrible stuff. Hopefully he's talking about those beautiful JRJR issues, the one ray of light in that whole friggin' mess.

 

[MarvelXI]

Lets not make this a SR vs. X3 thread, or an X3 sucked one please. There are millions of those on this site. Speak your peace there.

As for his comments, he lost me when he said BB was in continuity with Batman. How can you think that? That is idiocy. Batman Forever would have been more appropriate, and I hope that is what he meant. I like the Alien to Aliens comparison though. I loved the first Hulk film, and don't want to see a reboot this early in the game. Vague sequel is fine.

"The best description I would say is something like 'Batman Begins' where it's not necessarily out of continuity with the other movies, though that was more of an origin story."

Batman Forever isn´t a origin story but Begins is.

 

[Sava]

"The best description I would say is something like 'Batman Begins' where it's not necessarily out of continuity with the other movies, though that was more of an origin story."

Batman Forever isn´t a origin story but Begins is.

so how the hell does that make sense then?... BB is an origin story, so is Batman 89, but they are both part of the same continuity ...

 

[jadejaws]

I'd like to echo that statement. I dropped the book for the first time in about fifteen years about a quarter of the way into that run. Terrible, terrible stuff. Hopefully he's talking about those beautiful JRJR issues, the one ray of light in that whole friggin' mess.

This brings up an interesting point....do you guys think Zak incorporated Hulk issue #25 (with Abomination)? Now granted, this wasn't a Bruce Jones run but it was in that era...

 

[Limey Git]

This brings up an interesting point....do you guys think Zak incorporated Hulk issue #25 (with Abomination)? Now granted, this wasn't a Bruce Jones run but it was in that era...

God, I hope so. I know Jenkins' run wasn't that popular, but #25 was one of the best Hulk stories of all time, imo.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

I never said I hated the movie.

My mistake, I got you mixed up with someone else.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Hey all!



I totally disagree. For me, X3 was as good if not better than the others. That was also the verdict of the masses at the box office...where it comfortably beat Superman Returns and Batman Begins.

I think a lot of the fanboy vitriol was stoked by Harry Knowles at Aintitcool...and we all know about his history with Brett Ratner, so clearly he had his own agenda.

Was the movie perfect - no.

- It wasn't exactly the Phoenix story the hardcore fans wanted.
- They killed Cyclops.
- The movie did seem a bit short.

But the bashing X-3 got was in no way justified, the negativity was way over the top, and clearly orchestrated by Harry Knowles (who was bashing it 6 months before release).



You know I have yet to read a constructive critique of X-3. Could you either link me to one or give your own thoughts on why it was a bad movie?

Since I don't want to get too far off topic (this is the Hulk boards after all). Here is my (hopefully constructive) criticism of the first Hulk movie, which I would probably give 6/10.

Problem #1 - Pacing

It just took far too long to get to the action, I mean we must have been an hour into the movie before we get the fight with the gamma-dogs!

If possible, start with a big action sequence. If not, make sure you have something by about the 30 minute mark (end of the 1st Act).

Problem #2 - The Villain

Okay, I'll gloss over the fact they had to steal a Thor villain (The Absorbing Man)...and Zak, if you ever get the Thor gig, for goodness sake email me or at the very least check out my brief synopsis on my website:

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/shrine2.htm

However, I digress. The Hulk movie never, ever establishes the villain as a threat. So theres no build up to that confrontation.

I would have created the Absorbing Man earlier in the movie and then had a scene whereby he robs a bank and takes on some cops in the city. This way we set up how dangerous and powerful he is. Also you could have some really strong imagery or the Absorbing Man absorbing bricks/concrete textures, or even bullets and growing to giant size.

Problem #3 - The Climax

The whole end fight was simply a confusing mess, which leaves the audience unsatisfied. Always leave on a high note, and the high note of the Hulk movie was clearly the battle with the military.

Personally I would have loved to see the Hulk vs. Absorbing Man in the middle of a city as the climax. Not some pitch black, strobe light jive. Stylistically I get the point (the flickering images are like snapshots of comic book panels), but it just didn't work for me.

Problem #4 - The Hulk

With the Hulk muted and silent, it really means audiences empathise less with the character. Where was the "HULK SMASH!" or "Puny Banner!" lines fans know and love. I mean it doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but even Frankenstein's monster (upon which Hulk is based) talks and that endears you to the character.

Upper Krust, i must have given a hundred critiques on X3 like this, i dont have the time or patience to do it again.

If you want to, go to the X3 boards and look through the thread titled 'If you dont like the movie-Post Here' or look in my own thread 'X3 is not in continuity with X2,' which explains just SOME of the MANY problems i had with X3-The Last ****E!

Now back to topic, Penn sounded absolutely stupid when he said that BB is in continuity with B'89. As someone else said earlier, Superman Returns would have been a MUCH better comparison.

 

[Steelsheen]

With the second piece of casting in place for Marvel Films, they theoretically have actors to play two of the heroes who might end up being part of an Avengers movie, which conveniently enough, Penn has also been assigned to write. We asked Penn what he thought about having the actors now cast to play Iron Man and the Hulk appearing in Marvel's first team-up movie. "The truth is that would be ideal. The original plan when I talked to Kevin Feige [Marvel Film's President of Production] was that when we make an 'Avengers' movie, it should be the first time that the characters cross-over. It's what every fan has always wanted to see, is where you're watching the movie and there's Robert Downey Jr. and the Hulk intersects with the story.

hot damn!

 

[Spider-Fan]

"The best description I would say is something like 'Batman Begins' where it's not necessarily out of continuity with the other movies, though that was more of an origin story."

Batman Forever isn´t a origin story but Begins is.

But Batman Forever touched on his origin. I don't think he meant that, but with the Aliens to Alien thing, this would have been more appropriate. Thinking BB is in continuity with the 89 movie is idiocy.

 

[Bubonic]

I'm telling you, this guys mom is having sex with someone uptop.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Plain and simple this guy's involvment points to a fun movie that won't be anything special. Still I'm pretty sure I'll perfer it over Ang Lee's.