Ziggler gets a Wrestling Thread...It's About Damn Time!!!

[brainchild81]

It's okay, I enjoyed Rock winning though

Anyone else?

Me too. Didn't make up for them ****ing Bryan & Shameus over, but it kept me from going home 100% pissed. Cena beating the Rock in Rock's hometown on his 1st try would have been lame & pointless.

 

[Benstamania]

They forgot to mention the part where Undertaker passed on the Matrix Of Leadership.

... Cena is a lot like Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime.

 

[bullets]

Wow this year's MITB is really going to suck.A ladder match with Cena,Kane and Big Show isn't appealing at all.Also The SD MITB lacking a certain two people is awful.Guess I'll only watch Bryan/Punk.

That's about the only thing worth watching on RAW.




Also they still have open spots for MITB, I think some people will still get in , hopefully [BLACKOUT]Rhodes[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Metallo]

Me too. Didn't make up for them ****ing Bryan & Shameus over, but it kept me from going home 100% pissed. Cena beating the Rock in Rock's hometown on his 1st try would have been lame & pointless.

About as lame and pointless as Rock beating Cena. How is Rock beating Cena in the first try in his first singles match in EIGHT years not less "pointless?" As of now Rock winning didnt mean sh**. It was a weak main event considering the builddup.

Lesnars return is still more relivant as of right now. The buyrates are reflecting that.

 

[brainchild81]

It's less pointless because it sent the crowd home happy. Cena winning would have been bad. Especially there & you know this, Metallo. People are already beyond tired of seeing Cena win.

 

[SuperBatman]

I really hope WWE surprises us and has Jericho win the MITB but I just don't see it happening.

 

[Wheels]

Nice title choice.

 

[Metallo]

It's less pointless because it sent the crowd home happy. Cena winning would have been bad. Especially there & you know this, Metallo. People are already way past tired of seeing Cena win.

Yeah EVERYONE was happy...except the cena fans and the kids who wanted to see him win. Why do you ASSUME EVERYONE wanted to see Rock win? Thats BS. And what about the people who ALSO paid at home? Guess they don't f***ing count do they?

Sending the crowd home happy excuse is bullsh**. Vince knew to do the smart thing in 2002 when most of that crowd wanted to see Hogan go over Rock.

By that point Cena hadn't been winning as much anyway so your point is flawed when it comes to that period. Jobbing your top guy to a less than part timer who immediately runs off to make some cheesy movie is pointless. Didn't mean sh** for the long term.

Lesnars return and loss did more for WWE NOW than what Rock did. Wrestling is serialized and as of right now the Rock winning at Mania doesn't mean sh** to whats going on today. The entire problem with the company now is no foresight and relying on the past Its why the roster is so paper thin on legit stars. The Attitude Eras is over but instead of building a new era Vince can't grow a pair creatively like he did in 1996.

But hey Rock can come back every year and Punk and Lesnar and everyone else can job to him to send the crowd home happy.

 

[Hunter Rider]

WWE only care about sending the crowd home happy when it suits the agenda, Cena is their main star, the face and franchise of the company, for as many out there who hate him there are just as many who love him, he wouldn't be on top if WWE weren't making money off him.

It never made sense to job out Cena to satiate the ego of The Rock, it may have appeased some smark fans who don't shell out anyway, but it didn't go over well with the WWE's week in week out core fans and on top of that was slated by most who actually look at the business.........

and Looking at the business The Rock did nothing for the Survivor Series buyrate, he didn't lift Raw ratings and drew no more money at Mania than most recent Mania's, and in the process gave back nothing except the gratification of a few smarks who miss the rose tinted attitude era and should be too old to care about Cena losing.

 

[brainchild81]

The WM number was UP from recent years right? Those kids have been seeing Cena win quite enough. lol they learned a life lesson that night. Cena winning would have been more pointless because he wasn't gonna get any more over than he already is by winning yet again. People who like him would still like him & people who hate him would have even more reason to. @least with a losing but good effort people who don't like him can say he did his job w/out ego like he always does on those extremely rare occasions when he doesn't look like Superman. Him winning would have just been the same old ****. What's the point in that?

 

[bullets]

It's less pointless because it sent the crowd home happy. Cena winning would have been bad. Especially there & you know this, Metallo. People are already beyond tired of seeing Cena win.

A lot of people wanted to see Cena get his ass kicked but it wound up being the wrong decision for him to lose. I actually found Cena more likeable heading into the match. Then after coming off a huge loss Cena had to beat Brock to save face and that killed Brock's momentum. Now we might get a Rock vs Cena rematch and honestly it wasn't that good. It was cool to see them in the ring together but it's not something I'd care to see again. It would of made more sense for Rock to lose and have that be the end of it.

 

[Van Petrol]

@ the thread title..

 

[brainchild81]

The numbers went up though right? Match honestly wasn't that great, but the rematch has nowhere to go but up. The SS numbers didn't soar because everybody knew what would happen. I'm not a Miz fan, but it's ****ed up they'd blame that on him. I figured Cena would lose @WM, but I wasn't 100% sure of the outcome like I was for SS

 

[Metallo]

Those kids have been seeing Cena win quite enough. lol they learned a life lesson that night. Cena winning would have been more pointless because he wasn't gonna get any more over than he already is by winning yet again. People who like him would still like him & people who hate him would have even more reason to. @least with a losing but good effort people who don't like him can say he did his job w/out ego like he always does on those extremely rare occasions when he doesn't look like Superman. Him winning would have just been the same old ****. What's the point in that?

Because the kids who watch him now still SPEND money on him now. And in the 52 weeks a year Cena can bring in more NEW kids who are growing up all the time than Rock is going to bring on new 20 to 30 year old guys in the one month a year he might actually be there.

With the way WWE is bleeding away paying fans and viewers whats the point in putting over a guy who isn't there to stop that hemorrhaging? A guy who shows up to "draw" at the biggest show of the year that draws ANYWAY? Do you think Mania 28 would have BOMBED without the Rock? No. It would have made a load of money.

Cena lost and people who ragged on him the most STILL rag on him so that excuse is also BS. They aren't ever going to give him a chance no matter how many times he loses.

WWE is in no position to keep living off the past the way they do. Rock comes in saying he's going to do for WWE whats never been done before and all he did was stagnant ratings, buyrates not much higher than usual (and still falling), and going over when the company is more in need of new stars that need the rub than ever.

 

[Metallo]

The numbers went up though right?. Match honestly wasn't that great, but the rematch has nowhere to go but up. The SS numbers didn't soar because everybody knew what would happen. I'm not a Miz fan, but it's ****ed up they'd blame that on him. I figured Cena would lose @WM, but I wasn't 100% sure of the outcome like I was for SS

By a fraction. The same increases could have been accomplished just as well with good booking. MITB 2011 shoots a hole in your argument here. That PPV didn't require WWE spending a *****load of money to bring in a part timer. It was main evented by two full time guys who are todays stars.

As for Summer Slam...they didn't sell it on what people expected to happen. They sold it on it being the Rocks RETURN to the ring for the first time in 7 years. It was all built around The Rock. The same PPV he made his WWE debut. And not as many people gave a damn as they hoped.

 

[brainchild81]

Cena doesn't need that rub. & yes, the kids are still spending money on him. The loss didn't change that. SS was Rock (a singles star) in a tag team match in a company w/a mega weak tag division against people who hadn't been booked to look like they had a snowball's chance in hell of winning. MITB was booked well wasn't it? I'm not saying that the Rock is the answer to WWE's problems. Cena winning & being in main events damn near all the time isn't either. & the match was CENA's idea remember? This wasn't all about the Rock's ego.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I expect the main events of Raw and Smackdown next week to be tag team matches.

 

[Metallo]

Cena doesn't need that rub. & yes, the kids are still spending money on him. The loss didn't change that.

You still aren't thinking long term. Thats like saying Hogan losing to Andre wouldn't change anything. or that Hogan didn't need that rub. This was as close to a WM3 as Cena was going to get. A generational passing of the torch. Cena winning is something they could have used to make more money off him in the future. Instead WWE admitted that what they do now isn't as good and people may aw well be stuck in the past. Something they weren't stupid enough to do in the mid 90's.

And what would Rocks loss have changed? He's there to wrestle one PPV a year at best. A loss for him wouldn't affect his drawing power or his merchandise sales either. And if he lost those Attitude Era marks would still come back to oooh and aaaah at him the next time he returned to WWE.

 

[brainchild81]

Long term I don't see where it hurt Cena's career. Rock's loss would have sent the fans home angry. What they do now ISN'T as good. The ratings show that so it makes no difference whether they "admit" it or not. This was NOT Hogan & Andre, not by a longshot. I don't remember half the people ****ting on Hogan & longing for previous, better eras like they do for Cena & his era. Hogan winning put him more over. Do you honestly think Cena winning would have put him more over? & Cena had been winning his ass off up until that point IIRC. What are you talking about? Wasn't his last loss before then to Punk & a loooong time ago? IIRC he'd just come off a win @Dumbass Ambulance Match(That was the name of that PPV right? If not, it should have been because the matches it was named after weren't given the spotlight) against Kane.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Rock beating Cena was awesome for me

All I care.

And...great thread title. About damn time Ziggler gets one!

 

[Metallo]

Long term I don't see where it hurt Cena's career. Rock's loss would have sent the fans home angry.

You mean it would have sent HIS fans home angry. Not all the fans. Where is your proof that every single person in that audience was a Rock fan? How exactly did a loss HELP Cena or the company in general? You keeep saying "the fans" at least get it right.

If the show had been better Rock losing wouldn't have mattered nearly as much just like at WM18. After losign to Cena the Rock marks would still come back to see him whenever he returned.

What they do now ISN'T as good. The ratings show that so it makes no difference whether they "admit" it or not.

Rock coming back didn't make things any better and most people didn't give enough of a damn to watch. And yeah the perception they create makes a difference. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so concerned about it in the past. Rocks return didn't mean much of a sh** for ratings or byrates and now he's gone and Vince kissing his ass was moot. Maybe its not all as good because Vince has been too busy kissing the ass of aging stars who come in for a quick cheap pop and over relying on the one or two true new stars he's created.

This was NOT Hogan & Andre, not by a longshot. I don't remember half the people ****ting on Hogan & longing for previous, better eras like they do for Cena & his era. & Cena had been winning his ass off up until that point IIRC. What are you talking about? Wasn't his last loss before then to Punk & a loooong time ago? IIRC he'd just come off a win @Dumbass Ambulance Match(That was the name of that PPV right? If not, it should have been because the matches it was named after weren't given the spotlight) against Kane.

After winning the title back Cena LOST it to Del Rio so what the hell are YOU talking about? Winning his ass off? Compared to the guy who comes back after 7 years of ring rust and gets to beat the guys who are there now every day? And at the end of the day all that Rock hype didn't mean sh** with ever dwindling buyrates.

Rock/Cena wasn't Hogan/Andre because WWE wasn't stupid enough in the past to job Hogan out to stars of a bygone era. It was Hogan/Andre in the sense of a generational battle. Unlike Hogan Cena never got the rub from a true TOP guy of the previous era the way Andre was. As close as he got was beating HHH and HBK. They also knew how to book Hogan instead of relying on the past for the sake of a vocal group of aging marks who can't move on and who certainly aren't there supporting the company week in week out.

This current era never really took off partly because WWE was too reliant on stuff they created in the decade before and by the time the situation got really serious it was almost too late.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I think way too much weight is being placed on the Rock/Cena outcome at WM. Either one winning would not have had an impact on the way the company is going; these "pass the torch" matches are great symbolic things for diehard fans and the boys in the lockerroom who are dim enough to believe their own ****, but don't really set the tone for the company.

If the WWE is screwed up, it's to do with how they handle the aftermath of each match, and cannot be blamed on its win-loss outcome . Take the Cena/Lesnar match, for example; it was a great match, and it would have been if either competitor won, but what screwed it up at the end was the completely unnecessary, pandering speech Cena just had to give at the end to suck all the life and drama out of that angle.

 

[brainchild81]

Ditto.

You mean it would have sent HIS fans home angry. Not all the fans. Where is your proof that every single person in that audience was a Rock fan? How exactly did a loss HELP Cena or the company in general? You keeep saying "the fans" at least get it right.

If the show had been better Rock losing wouldn't have mattered nearly as much just like at WM18. After losign to Cena the Rock marks would still come back to see him whenever he returned.




Rock coming back didn't make things any better and most people didn't give enough of a damn to watch. And yeah the perception they create makes a difference. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so concerned about it in the past. Rocks return didn't mean much of a sh** for ratings or byrates and now he's gone and Vince kissing his ass was moot. Maybe its not all as good because Vince has been too busy kissing the ass of aging stars who come in for a quick cheap pop and over relying on the one or two true new stars he's created.




After winning the title back Cena LOST it to Del Rio so what the hell are YOU talking about? Winning his ass off? Compared to the guy who comes back after 7 years of ring rust and gets to beat the guys who are there now every day? And at the end of the day all that Rock hype didn't mean sh** with ever dwindling buyrates.

Rock/Cena wasn't Hogan/Andre because WWE wasn't stupid enough in the past to job Hogan out to stars of a bygone era. It was Hogan/Andre in the sense of a generational battle. Unlike Hogan Cena never got the rub from a true TOP guy of the previous era the way Andre was. As close as he got was beating HHH and HBK. They also knew how to book Hogan instead of relying on the past for the sake of a vocal group of aging marks who can't move on and who certainly aren't there supporting the company week in week out.

This current era never really took off partly because WWE was too reliant on stuff they created in the decade before and by the time the situation got really serious it was almost too late.

The current era never took off because the booking/storyline is ****** & Cena's build up has also been ******. Even now when they have a chance to really put the ball in Punk's hands they instead "admit" that to them the most important thing in WWE is being John Cena. Relax, I used IIRC about the wins because I wasn't following as hard a some are. Just to be sure, you're saying that Cena beating the Rock would have put him more over like Hogan's win did?

 

[TX85]

Business wise-Cena should have won clean,Fan wise-Popular vote was for Rock to win

I was happy as a fan to see Rock win But I really think Cena should have won,I'm over it though and the match wasn't all that special although not that bad,I enjoyed the Brock vs Cena build up to Extreme Rules&match itself(except ending)much more than Rock vs Cena!!!

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

Love the new thread title!