Zoe Kravitz IS Catwoman

[Rick190293]

She’s very subtle but still sexy… you can see just by her eyes. There’s still confidence (the “9 lives moment”) but some vulnerability towards Bruce. She shows it greatly, imo.

 

[GothamCity]

Catwomans fighting style is really cool.

 

[shauner111]

After the last trailer, I have to say that Zoe seems a really cliche femme fatale, nothing more. I don't expect anything at Michelle's level. Her performance in Batman Returns is just captivating.

That's because Michelle wasn't really working with Selina Kyle. She was working with a mentally ill immortal woman who went from a nervous nelly to a vengeful villain who literally can't be killed. One who went through a transformation and who's mind could barely keep up with the change. It's great. But it's not Selina Kyle.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

That's because Michelle wasn't really working with Selina Kyle. She was working with a mentally ill immortal woman who went from a nervous nelly to a vengeful villain who literally can't be killed. One who went through a transformation and who's mind could barely keep up with the change. It's great. But it's not Selina Kyle.

Michelle was working with Tim Burton's interpretation of Catwoman. I'm very happy that you'll finally get your perfect Catwoman (as if Hathaway didn't play Catwoman like that), but the thing is, these characters have changed over the years, and every writer who writes them and the actors playing them, added something to make them more interesting.

Nobody ordered Reeves or Zoe to repeat what Nolan and Hathaway had already done.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, Michelle created an interesting and mesmerizing character, and Zoe at the moment seems to be another femme fatale that we already saw many times. Nothing special here which doesn't mean that she's bad, because she's not.

 

[shauner111]

Michelle was working with Tim Burton's interpretation of Catwoman. I'm very happy that you'll finally get your perfect Catwoman (as if Hathaway didn't play Catwoman like that), but the thing is, these characters have changed over the years, and every writer who writes them and the actors playing them, added something to make them more interesting.

Nobody ordered Reeves or Zoe to repeat what Nolan and Hathaway had already done.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, Michelle created an interesting and mesmerizing character, and Zoe at the moment seems to be another femme fatale that we already saw many times. Nothing special here which doesn't mean that she's bad, because she's not.

And I disagree.

 

[godisawesome]

She’s very subtle but still sexy… you can see just by her eyes. There’s still confidence (the “9 lives moment”) but some vulnerability towards Bruce. She shows it greatly, imo.

Part of the fun with their attraction is how much of it is Bruce waxing between awkwardness at her flirtation and subtly reciprocating it while she starts to lose track of how much of her flirtation with him is meant to throw him off his game and how much is just because she likes him.

The fact she’s making fun of his “I’m Vengeance!” line means she either watched him deliver it earlier or had him deliver it to her personally, and decided “Imma make a Dad Joke out of that just to show how little you intimidate me!”

The way she seems disturbed by the beat down he delivers in one of the other trailers, but not truly scared of him shows that she’s liable to also care about his mental health a bit.

 

[shauner111]

“Just another femme fatale” might work as an insult to Anne because she barely had any of the cat iconography. Zoe on the other hand has it all in spades and she didn't need to force her delivery to act sexy. She just IS sexy without trying. She's been MY Catwoman since before she was even cast and now she just proved me right.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'll be honest, I'm also a bit iffy when it comes to Zoe. Everything I've seen of her in the past has been...fine, I guess. I just don't think she has much range. She seems to be playing Catwoman more or less how I'd expect her to play her.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

“Just another femme fatale” might work as an insult to Anne because she barely had any of the cat iconography. Zoe on the other hand has it all in spades and she didn't need to force her delivery to act sexy. She just IS sexy without trying. She's been MY Catwoman since before she was even cast and now she just proved me right.

Yeah... Sure. Barely. Her subtle "cat ears", movements and personality had barely any of cat iconography.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I think both capture the Selina vibes in different ways.

Hathaway's Selina felt like Hathaway in real life, in that she's very theatrical (or as some would describe Hathaway - fake). So her “forced” sultry vibes at times felt believable to me because it didn’t feel like Hathaway playing a part so much as Selina.

But with Kravitz, it doesn't look like she's playing a part, and that she's just got those vibes in her by default (well...along with the very Catwoman lines, the costuming, etc), which is a nice change. Like when she says "I have a thing for strays", she doesn't say it with a smirk or something. She just says it....and like....I believe her. I mean, on one hand I think Kravitz may be underselling some of her lines, playing them too straight, but they're working regardless, again, between the writing the costuming and the casting. Kravitz is just cool as hell.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah... Sure. Barely. Her subtle "cat ears", movements and personality had barely any of cat iconography.

All you did was show me her ears in multiple gif's. Zoe has ears too lol. But she also has a whip, claws, cats surrounding her. All iconic Catwoman, which Anne didn't have. That was my point. So if Anne only has the ears and nothing else, how is she more Catwoman to you on a surface level compared to what Zoe is bringing? Just calling her another femme fatale is simply inaccurate.

Movements and personality are not "iconography". This might be the second word you don't understand lmao.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

With regards to how the actresses move/look, Hathway's was a lot more Newmar/Kitt with the heels and mask.

Whereas Kravitz seems much closer to the comics with the cowl, the jumping around and all that.

Both scratch different itches for me.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

All you did was show me her ears in multiple gif's. Zoe has ears too lol. But she also has a whip, claws, cats surrounding her. All iconic Catwoman, which Anne didn't have. That was my point. So if Anne only has the ears and nothing else, how is she more Catwoman to you on a surface level compared to what Zoe is bringing? Just calling her another femme fatale is simply inaccurate.

Movements and personality are not "iconography". This might be the second word you don't understand lmao.

That's the thing, that's all "you" saw. I can't show you anything that you don't wanna see.

"An iconography may also mean a particular depiction of a subject in terms of the content of the image, such as the number of figures used, their placing and gestures."

You have your head up you a** so deep, that i'm done with you.

 

[shauner111]

Best xmas gift ever.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Hathaway was not a good “Catwoman”. At all. She was forgettable and may as well had just been some random character.

 

[pixen]

All you did was show me her ears in multiple gif's. Zoe has ears too lol. But she also has a whip, claws, cats surrounding her. All iconic Catwoman, which Anne didn't have. That was my point. So if Anne only has the ears and nothing else, how is she more Catwoman to you on a surface level compared to what Zoe is bringing? Just calling her another femme fatale is simply inaccurate.

Movements and personality are not "iconography". This might be the second word you don't understand lmao.

You need to put the blame on Nolan and not Anne. Nolan made Selina out of her 2000’s run with Julie Newmar updated design look. Just because you wanted a cowl and you didn’t get it doesn’t make her any less Catwoman. Newmar didn’t have a whip anyways and she was Catwoman.

Nolan wouldn’t even put Holly in, he picked someone who looked like her but never used her real name. He is the one who refused to lean into things, not Anne. He can’t write or direct a female character to save his life (also fight scenes too). He completely forgot about her for a good chunk of the movie too. He’s overrated in areas of his filmmaking.

That whip you see with Zoe is literally a bike chain lock.

 

[Sawyer]

Anne was fine, you guys.

Not great, no. But fine.

 

[Rick190293]

Anne was great. Pffeifer is iconic. Zoe is looking amazing too. End of discussion

 

[chintai80]

i really like anne as selina in tdkr.
thought it was the closest we've gotten to the comic book catwoman for the time.
in general, i think she's a great actress.

pffeifer is also a great actress, but this may be heresy, but i never was that fond of her portrayal of catwoman in BR.
didn't like the crazy lady angle they went with there. not my catwoman!

kravitz looks really good so far - different enough from anne, but feels very catwoman too.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I just absolutely love Zoe as Catwoman. She’s going to add something powerful to this character.

 

[shauner111]

I never said Anne sucked or wasn't catwoman. I also don't want her to wear a cowl. I actually don't think she'd rock that well.

The argument was about how Anne feels more like Catwoman than Zoe, and I said if you're gonna pick on one of them for not having some of the iconography then logically you could poke at Anne's Catwoman for not having as much as Zoe's. So I'm just saying Zoe has all the classic trademarks down and she's not even fully Catwoman yet. It's not even a diss on Anne who I liked when I left the cinema in 2012 and still do, but she's third place when it comes to performance and design for me. And number two in terms of characterization. Just because you critique something doesn't mean you're putting it down and calling it a piece of ****.

As for blaming Nolan. I don't "blame" him because it's his interpretation. But he was obviously sceptical in using her in the first place, so I don't doubt that he was probably afraid to use cats, call her Catwoman, give her claws or a whip. He almost didn't give Batman a vehicle or even a cape but chose to do so because it wouldn't feel like Batman without it. So he was constantly trying to get away with stripping it all down as much as possible.

Catwoman was accused of not looking like the character (remember the first released pic?). I still hear "eh she's more like a black widow" and I disagree with that because the "cat got your tongue" bit with the ears flipped up and her whole characterization was on point. She moved well. Her theme was cool and prancy. My only critiques? Her heels were impractical most of the time and so was the long hair (great look for her but not a bright choice if she's trying to rob a joint without a trace). Secondly, Anne does this in most films where she forces her lines out like she's in a broadway show. She's old Hollywood and it's not bad, it's just her style. And my preference for Catwoman is different.

I also don't find her as attractive as Zoe, sorry but not sorry. That's my taste. Her eyes are untouchable

 

[Enriquespy]

I don't have a favorite Catwoman. I'm just glad the times of a Catwoman wearing a cape are log gone.

 

[BatLobster]

The old Hollywood thing really worked nicely for Anne's interpretation, giving it that classic femme fatale flavor with a bit of Hedy Lamarr inspiration in some of the line deliveries. Pulling directly from one of the original inspirations for the character. It's a 100% valid take on the character. I would've gladly watched a spinoff about her version.

Zoe looks great though and she'll clearly get more to work with. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how her relationship with Bats develops in this new film, especially after seeing some of the banter in the new trailer.

Honestly though it was impressive to me the way Nolans even managed to fit her in for TDKR. Catwoman is much better suited as a character for street-level stories like the one we're getting in The Batman. The fact that they managed to write her a very solid and thematically relevant role in a League of Shadows/Bane story without it feeling tacked on was impressive, even if it meant she had less to do in it and had to be more vulnerable/scared of Bane for a lot of it. I really appreciated her inclusion, and of course as a Bat/Cat shipper I was very happy with the ending they chose for them.

Anne's switching on a dime from damsel in distress to badass was aces too. She really did a lot with a supporting role. And she looked fantastic on the Bat-pod. Underrated AF.

 

[pixen]

I mean, Nolan put the claws in…. they were just her heels and not on her fingers.

 

[WatchProtect]

Nolans Selina worked perfectly with his Bruce, I didn't quite buy the connection between the two tbh but that isnt because of Anne necessarily.

I dont think Bales Bruce could handle the type of Catwoman that Zoe is seemingly portraying. Its interesting because looking at returning characters like Bruce, Alfred, and Selina and comparing them to TDK trilogy versions is so weird.

I feel like Nolans characters would turn there noses up at Reeves characters. No offense to either side, just an observation