🤛 Official UFC Thread - Part 8

[TheVileOne]

Since we are somewhat talking about Woodley & money fights, I read this article today: B.J. Penn blasts fighters for seeking ‘money fights’

I agree 100% with what BJ Penn says, his opinion reflects mine exactly on the matter. Here's a quote from the article that sums it up:

"I’ll tell you this, I’m not the guy to go out there and say ‘oh give me this money fight, give me that money fight’,” Penn said. “I look at all these guys doing that and I’m like why don’t you go knock out a 100 guys and become the money fight yourself? ‘Oh I want to fight this money fight, this money fight’ — why don’t you make yourself the money fight? How’s about that one? Let’s just start there."

As bad as I think it is Penn is coming back to fight at featherweight, I don't disagree with much of what he's saying.

 

[TheVileOne]

http://mmajunkie.com/2017/01/mark-h...a-white-alleges-racketeering-conspiracy-fraud

I would say it's highly likely Mark Hunt's fight with Alistair Overeem is off.

Will be interesting to see where Luke Thomas falls on this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hope he wins.

 

[TheVileOne]

We shall see. I've never known the UFC to have precedent to withhold fighter pay due to a failed drug test unless it was a win or Fight of the Night bonus. Athletic commissions wouldn't allow that.

Not to mention the NSAC investigated the issue, fined and suspended Lesnar, and overturned the win. So, I mean...go ahead and sue the state government while you are at it and see how far you get.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We shall see. I've never known the UFC to have precedent to withhold fighter pay due to a failed drug test unless it was a win or Fight of the Night bonus. Athletic commissions wouldn't allow that.

Not to mention the NSAC investigated the issue, fined and suspended Lesnar, and overturned the win. So, I mean...go ahead and sue the state government while you are at it and see how far you get.

UFC might have trouble with waving their usual blood testing rules.

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean the rules were followed here. Now maybe the rules need to be changed and there need to be harsher penalties.

But at the same time, I don't think you can blame the UFC for Brock Lesnar trying to cheat.

Now on the other hand, this lawsuit could affect change with USADA and UFC policies and that might not be a bad thing for the sport either.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean the rules were followed here. Now maybe the rules need to be changed and there need to be harsher penalties.

But at the same time, I don't think you can blame the UFC for Brock Lesnar trying to cheat.

Now on the other hand, this lawsuit could affect change with USADA and UFC policies and that might not be a bad thing for the sport either.

Well he is suing Brock as well.

As to the UFC, it shows the convenience of their rules when they want to make money.

 

[TheVileOne]

What convenience exactly though?

Technically, all the rules were followed.

Also, they cancelled Jones vs. Cormier II when Jones failed a drug test for the same card.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What convenience exactly though?

Technically, all the rules were followed.

Also, they cancelled Jones vs. Cormier II when Jones failed a drug test for the same card.

They established a rule of 4 or 6 months (not sure which) of testing for returning fighters who have been out for a certain amount of time. They waved that for Brock to fight. So basically they opened the door for him to juice all he wanted until he officially signed, which was like a month before the fight.

 

[TheVileOne]

DarthSkywalker, there's a reason for that. Under the USADA rules and guidelines, it was waived because his fight was only announced four weeks ahead of the event. Under that circumstance, a returning fighter is allowed to not go through the 4-6 month testing pool.

Also, Lesnar was still tested. No it didn't open the door for him at all because the man still got tested multiple times, and he sitll got caught.

Testing wasn't waived at all for Lesnar. They just said, "OK, since you are coming out of retirement and your fight is set for this date and it only just got announced, you can go ahead and fight on that date without waiting the usual several months of testing before you can fight again. But we are still going to test you like crazy before the fight."

This is the problem. Fans and news media outlets misinterpreted what actually took place.

The UFC isn't opening the door for anyone to cheat. Fighters are doing that on their own. The UFC has basically done its due diligence at this point in terms of trying to clean up the sport and getting fighters tested out of competition year round.

UFC isn't a babysitter. What are they supposed to do. Rifle through the gyms and locker rooms of all these guys and make sure they aren't injecting PEDs up their butts?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

DarthSkywalker, there's a reason for that. Under the USADA rules and guidelines, it was waived because his fight was only announced four weeks ahead of the event. Under that circumstance, a returning fighter is allowed to not go through the 4-6 month testing pool.

Also, Lesnar was still tested. No it didn't open the door for him at all because the man still got tested multiple times, and he sitll got caught.

Testing wasn't waived at all for Lesnar. They just said, "OK, since you are coming out of retirement and your fight is set for this date and it only just got announced, you can go ahead and fight on that date without waiting the usual several months of testing before you can fight again. But we are still going to test you like crazy before the fight."

This is the problem. Fans and news media outlets misinterpreted what actually took place.

The UFC isn't opening the door for anyone to cheat. Fighters are doing that on their own. The UFC has basically done its due diligence at this point in terms of trying to clean up the sport and getting fighters tested out of competition year round.

UFC isn't a babysitter. What are they supposed to do. Rifle through the gyms and locker rooms of all these guys and make sure they aren't injecting PEDs up their butts?

The obvious point is they didn't have to do that. They didn't have to sign him for that fight. They could have set a fight 4-6 months down the line. More so, the discussions with Brock were going on for months. They knew he was coming back, and they didn't care about testing him. And then he got busted twice in a month.

And are you telling me he didn't have the chance to juice until he signed? Of course he did and he did. Unless you think he decided to do it during the month of training. The whole point of the extended period is it would get rid of the majority of the gains that could have been made in out of competition cheating.

The UFC doesn't care if their fighters juice, just if they get caught.

 

[TheVileOne]

The obvious point is they didn't have to do that. They didn't have to sign him for that fight. They could have set a fight 4-6 months down the line. More so, the discussions with Brock were going on for months. They knew he was coming back, and they didn't care about testing him. And then he got busted twice in a month.

No one has to do anything. Mark Hunt didn't have to sign the fight. But he still did because he wanted a big name heavyweight on the biggest card of the year.

OK Lesnar got busted, and? They tested the guy. UFC's job is to book and promote fights. USADA's job is to track down and test the fighters. Basically you are going to have to prove there was collusion for malicious intent here. Before this, Lesnar had never failed a drug test his entire athletic career. That includes a long history in amateur wrestling where he competed under NCAA Division 1.

And are you telling me he didn't have the chance to juice until he signed? Of course he did and he did. Unless you think he decided to do it during the month of training. The whole point of the extended period is it would get rid of the majority of the gains that could have been made in out of competition cheating.

The UFC doesn't care if their fighters juice, just if they get caught.

No that's not what I'm telling you. I'm telling you the rules allow the timing that Lesnar could waive the testing pool period for his coming out of retirement. He was still entered into the testing pool. And he was still tested heavily.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/6/7...into-usada-testing-pool-in-advance-of-ufc-200

There is a provision in the UFC's anti-doping policy that a retired athlete must give USADA four months notice to be entered back into the pool. But that provision can be waived by the UFC in "exceptional circumstances or where the strict application of that rule would be manifestly unfair to an athlete," per Sholler.

"Given Lesnar last competed in UFC on December 30, 2011, long before the UFC Anti-Doping Policy went into effect, for purposes of the Anti-Doping Policy, he is being treated similarly to a new athlete coming into the organization," Sholler said.

Now here is what I will say. Maybe because of Lesnar and this lawsuit, that rule needs to change. So there's no waiving of a four month notice.

But regardless, the rules were followed.

Just like there are exceptions for banned substances on the USADA list. There are exceptions to even be granted a TUE, which is a therapeutic use exemption.

http://www.usada.org/substances/tue/policy/

That's the USADA policy on TUEs.

Cyborg and her camp's current goal is to try and get a retroactive TUE for the substance she failed a drug test for. They are claiming what she failed for was prescribed medication by a doctor. The problem? She was given the prescription in September, and then she failed a random drug test in December. She had plenty of time to look up what was clearly a banned substance. And she had plenty of time to inform USADA and request a TUE for the medication, if that's truly all it was.

 

[Slushy]

No one has to do anything. Mark Hunt didn't have to sign the fight. But he still did because he wanted a big name heavyweight on the biggest card of the year.

The best part about all of it was Hunt had his suspicion, still accepted the fight, talked all this trash that he was going to knock out Lesnar, and he STILL got his ass handed to him before turning into a crybaby afterwards!

Now, I can't wait for him to b*tch about being broke after losing his lawsuit case.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No one has to do anything. Mark Hunt didn't have to sign the fight. But he still did because he wanted a big name heavyweight on the biggest card of the year.

OK Lesnar got busted, and? They tested the guy. UFC's job is to book and promote fights. USADA's job is to track down and test the fighters. Basically you are going to have to prove there was collusion for malicious intent here. Before this, Lesnar had never failed a drug test his entire athletic career. That includes a long history in amateur wrestling where he competed under NCAA Division 1.

They have a duty of safety to their fighters, especially once they established the testing. They hired USADA. They decided not to leave it up to the commissions. It is their responsibility. They are all taking risk, but the idea is they aren't taking the rest of fighting juiced fighters.

No that's not what I'm telling you. I'm telling you the rules allow the timing that Lesnar could waive the testing pool period for his coming out of retirement. He was still entered into the testing pool. And he was still tested heavily.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/6/7...into-usada-testing-pool-in-advance-of-ufc-200

And I am saying there is an argument that this was unfair treatment, especially as the testing is UFC's own testing. Yes they do it through USADA, but they hired them.

Now here is what I will say. Maybe because of Lesnar and this lawsuit, that rule needs to change. So there's no waiving of a four month notice.

But regardless, the rules were followed.

Just like there are exceptions for banned substances on the USADA list. There are exceptions to even be granted a TUE, which is a therapeutic use exemption.

http://www.usada.org/substances/tue/policy/

That's the USADA policy on TUEs.

Cyborg and her camp's current goal is to try and get a retroactive TUE for the substance she failed a drug test for. They are claiming what she failed for was prescribed medication by a doctor. The problem? She was given the prescription in September, and then she failed a random drug test in December. She had plenty of time to look up what was clearly a banned substance. And she had plenty of time to inform USADA and request a TUE for the medication, if that's truly all it was.

Just because there are exceptions and rules established does not make them fundamentally fair. Like you can sign a contract with a loan company, but if the judge finds the numbers unfair, they can throw out the contract. Which is exactly what Hunt is going to be testing.

You are right about there being established guidelines and such. But I think what is going to be tested here is the validity, along with the idea that the UFC could take all of Brock's purse and decided not to. I believe that is in the contract.

 

[B]

Jeezus.. Mark Hunt's still crying about this?

I think 99% of that argument Mark Hunt has put forward in that lawsuit is complete nonsense. Hunt makes it sound like even though Lesnar tested positive for whatever it was he tested positive for he didn't receive fair punishment & basically said that the UFC's message to aspiring fighters was "It's OK to cheat".. which is just

Lesnar was fined $250,000 & suspended by NSAC for a year. Both the fine & the suspension falls directly in line with other offending competitors. You're fined a percentage of your purse between 10% - 30% depending on the offense. You are then suspended for 2 years if you're caught using PED's, less than 2 years if you've tested positive for something that wasn't a steroid/PED but something that is a banned substance because it clouds/masks tests or is typically used in conjunction with a PED, also less than 2 years if it's an accidental or ignorance failure ie contaminated substance, dick pills, creams etc.

I think Hunt's crying because he feels the UFC had the right to withhold all Lesnar's money from the bout & give it to Hunt. They for sure don't have the right to do that, he was hired by the promotion to come in, fight & sell PPV's, he did that, he must be paid. Now they might have been able to fine him 30% like weight limit failures but, and don't quote me, I'm pretty sure that the UFC has never directly fined a fighter for failing a drugs test as the fines are typically handed out by the governing body (NSAC) although please correct me if this isn't the case.

In the build up to their fight he said several times that he thinks Lesnar was on steroids, juicing etc & that he would still KO him. So he agreed & went into the bout with suspicions, he then gets tooled & handled by Lesnar & all of a sudden Hunt is up in arms acting shocked & surprised. It's so hypocritical of him it's silly.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Are the UFC not a private business? Can they not put it in their contract that they can refuse to pay if a fighter test positive for anything that will get them suspended? If not, how did they keep Jon Jones from fighting without a NSAC test?

The idea is simple. If you can hide your use until after the fight, you get paid. If you get caught before, you don't. UFC profits off the former. It benefits them to reduce Brock's window of testing. The pro wrestler with the ridiculous body.

 

[LoganGambit87]

i see where mark hunt is coming from but i do find it hilarious that he never complained or filed lawsuits when he won against juice heads who popped after their fight like frank mir and big foot silva

only when he lost to one does he take issue with it big time

 

[TheVileOne]

Are the UFC not a private business? Can they not put it in their contract that they can refuse to pay if a fighter test positive for anything that will get them suspended? If not, how did they keep Jon Jones from fighting without a NSAC test?

The idea is simple. If you can hide your use until after the fight, you get paid. If you get caught before, you don't. UFC profits off the former. It benefits them to reduce Brock's window of testing. The pro wrestler with the ridiculous body.

They are a private business, but they are still regulated by state and federal government entities. No they can't put it in a contract they will not pay a fighter at all if they fail a drug test. IMHO, no commission would ever approve that.

 

[TheVileOne]

The best part about all of it was Hunt had his suspicion, still accepted the fight, talked all this trash that he was going to knock out Lesnar, and he STILL got his ass handed to him before turning into a crybaby afterwards!

Now, I can't wait for him to b*tch about being broke after losing his lawsuit case.

I mean the loss got overturned, so officially he never lost the fight.

 

[Warhammer]

I'm intrigued by Mayweather/McGregor. Even though it won't ever happen, I'd watch the hell out of it. Mayweather would beat his ass.

Dana White legitimately made Mayweather an offer on Colin Cowherd's show today.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Bump it up to $50M each so it reaches that $100M figure they're each asking for plus cut of PPV. No way Mayweather should pass that up when he made $32M for Berto and drew less than 500K buys. McGregor is the bigger draw at the moment and is the only one capable of bringing in these kinda numbers for him.

 

[StarWars]

Found this on Deviant Art:

 

[I'm Batman.]

That was an execution. Penn looked like the first guy you'd face in an arcade fighting game on your way to the top. As Mike Goldberg would say, it's all over. Gomi or Guida would've made sense as guys with a name in the sport who would've been, at most, a -200 favorite against him. And ideally, he would've main evented last FOX against Faber in a dream match. But no stick him on a Sunday night against a really talented dude 15 years younger with a gigantic speed advantage. What else was going to happen?

 

[Knight Scar]

Penn physically just looked old and soft.

 

[B]

I did not enjoy that BJ Penn fight at all last night