Official UFC Thread - Part 5

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]390633[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]378503[/split]

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Winning percentages don't mean everything, it's who you are beating & how you are beating them. The same to a degree with your loses, it's who beats you & how you were defeated.

Spare me. Fitch pummeled BJ Penn into a bloodly mess who admitted defeat after the fight. He also dominated Erik Silva (who Dana White has been promoting as the next big thing). Sure, Jon got knocked out by Hendricks and outgrappled Maia but those losses didn't warrant a cut, and you know it, especially when you got fighters like Dan Hardy and Leonard Garcia going on epic losing streaks.

But Fitch is supposedly a billed as a world class grappler as well & Maia pretty much gave him both a wrestling & BJJ lesson.

Point? As I saw it, Fitch gave Maia a lesson in submission defense too. Damien was frustrated all through rounds 2 and 3.

Maia isn't a natural LHW either, Maia always looked undersized at MW because most of the MW's are guys that walk around at 205lbs or so, when he fought Fitch at WW he looked as much a WW as Fitch did. Maia & Fitch are both WW's. They both could/have competed at MW, however both are undersized in that division.

Maia has walked around at 190-195 lbs prior to a few fights at MW. He was basically a .5 lb away from 200 lbs last year at the UFC expo. He was undersized at MW though.

Thiago Alves, GSP & Hendricks aren't natural LHW's either. GSP cuts from around 190lbs or so as does Hendricks I believe. Thiago Alves supposedly walks around between 190lbs - 200lbs, however has been known to rise to 210lbs when he had problems cutting weight.. however despite this, he isn't a natural LHW either. Middleweight maybe, but at MW he would be significantly undersized as most MW's are guys that were too small for the LHW division. By too small I mean in both height & weight.

Alves has been known to walk around at 210-215 lbs. Trust me, the guy I saw at the clubs was no 180-190 lb'er. He's always been a 'bulky' fighter when he's not in the gym. Thiago is alot bigger than he appears on TV.

Hendricks is another fighter who nowadays takes his diet more seriously but back when he valued weights he was a large fella himself.

GSP has admitted to crossing the 200 lb mark earlier his career before taking up gymnastics. GSP said he had to lose at least 30 lbs for his bouts with Trigg and Hughes.

 

[I'm Venom]

Depending on how the timeframe works, it would be nice if we got Weidman/Lombard for the next shot at Silva.

 

[B]

Spare me. Fitch pummeled BJ Penn into a bloodly mess who admitted defeat after the fight. He also dominated Erik Silva (who Dana White has been promoting as the next big thing). Sure, Jon got knocked out by Hendricks and outgrappled Maia but those losses didn't warrant a cut, and you know it, especially when you got fighters like Dan Hardy and Leonard Garcia going on epic losing streaks.

The BJ fight was a close fight, BJ won the first, Fitch won the last, 2nd round could have went either way.

Hang on, you just said to me that Maia didn't dominate Fitch when he beat him definitively 30-27 on all 3 judges scorecards & was outwrestled & outworked by Maia, yet you're then proclaiming Fitch dominated Silva in a fight that 2 of the judges scored 29-28 & in a fight that was a back & forth grappling bout as opposed the the Maia one which Maia was definitively the superior grappler & had Fitch tied up in knots..

Dan Hardy may have went on a 4 fight losing streak, however look at who he lost to. The greatest WW Champion of All Time, one of the top WW contenders, a LHW posing as a WW (who at the time was also arguably a top 10 WW) & then Chris Lytle who was a seasoned & experienced fighter. 4 loses is still 4 loses, but you could easily overlook 2 of those because they were at the high end of the division.

Point? As I saw it, Fitch gave Maia a lesson in submission defense too. Damien was frustrated all through rounds 2 and 3.

That's kinda like saying Shane Carwin gave Junior Dos Santos a lesson in striking defense because Dos Santos couldn't put him down.

Maia has walked around at 190-195 lbs prior to a few fights at MW. He was basically a .5 lb away from 200 lbs last year at the UFC expo. He was undersized at MW though.

He was undoubtedly undersized at MW. WW is defiantly a better weight class for him. Some guys are heavy, but don't have the frame to be in the same weight class that is close to their weight. Thiago Alves is a good example, he might walk around at 200lbs, but if he went up to middleweight he'd be at more of a disadvantage due to his height.

Alves has been known to walk around at 210-215 lbs. Trust me, the guy I saw at the clubs was no 180-190 lb'er. He's always been a 'bulky' fighter when he's not in the gym. Thiago is alot bigger than he appears on TV.

Hendricks is another fighter who nowadays takes his diet more seriously but back when he valued weights he was a large fella himself.

GSP has admitted to crossing the 200 lb mark earlier his career before taking up gymnastics. GSP said he had to lose at least 30 lbs for his bouts with Trigg and Hughes.

There's no way Thaigo Alves could make LHW & hope at being successful, even MW I feel is a push, he is simply too short & doesn't have enough tools to use his weight properly.

I understand where you are coming from, however it's all about a guys body & his frame that determines his weight class. The more weight you cut, fair enough you might have a size/weight advantage, but cutting anything upwards of 20lbs for a fight starts to drain alot out of the fighter & as a result they will fatigue quicker.

 

[CrypticOne]

I've even heard some lightweights walking around at 200 pounds or more. It's crazy. Cerrone is a pretty big dude. Seen him in person at some Ring of Fire fights along with Leonard Garcia (Who's also pretty big) and Anthony Johnson (Couldn't believe he was fighting at welterweight back then. The dude is a giant.)

 

[TheVileOne]

LOL, I was there for Fitch/Maia, Fitch had virtually no offense.

Sorry, but Fitch is a one dimensional fighter and he's refused to evolve over the past several years. He's got pillow fists and a poor submission game. Yeah he's got good submission defense and great wrestling, but what happens when he fights guys are better at that than him? He's got nothing else in the toolbox.

 

[B]

Dana White explains Jon Fitch cut

 

[E-Man]

The BJ fight was a close fight, BJ won the first, Fitch won the last, 2nd round could have went either way.

Hang on, you just said to me that Maia didn't dominate Fitch when he beat him definitively 30-27 on all 3 judges scorecards & was outwrestled & outworked by Maia, yet you're then proclaiming Fitch dominated Silva in a fight that 2 of the judges scored 29-28 & in a fight that was a back & forth grappling bout as opposed the the Maia one which Maia was definitively the superior grappler & had Fitch tied up in knots..

Dan Hardy may have went on a 4 fight losing streak, however look at who he lost to. The greatest WW Champion of All Time, one of the top WW contenders, a LHW posing as a WW (who at the time was also arguably a top 10 WW) & then Chris Lytle who was a seasoned & experienced fighter. 4 loses is still 4 loses, but you could easily overlook 2 of those because they were at the high end of the division.

If you're going to make the excuse for Dan Hardy that he lost to top guys then you have to do the same for Fitch. He lost to a Hendricks who is one of the elite in the division right now, and he lost a grappling battle to one of the best at BJJ in MMA. The draw with B.J. shouldn't have even been a draw because Fitch should have taken that second round. B.J. himself even thought that he lost right after the fight, but even then it's just a draw and not a loss.

Even with that being said he still never went on a losing streak like Hardy did. Not to mention that Hardy isn't even this hugely exciting guy like they keep trying to push. He's still around because he's a UK guy with a noticeable hair style, and they want to keep a presence over there. I get the business side of things, but that still doesn't justify cutting someone who is a top fighter. If he got his ass dominated a couple of more times like he did against Maia that would be one thing, but this is basically Dana not liking Fitch and getting rid of him while he has a chance.

 

[TheVileOne]

I scored the Penn fight draw or for Penn.

 

[CrypticOne]

I scored it a draw or win for Fitch.

 

[E-Man]

King Mo had one of the slowest falls for a knock out ever. lol

 

[Mace Bloodstone]

Out on his feet for sure.

 

[TheVileOne]

King Mo got 'Reemed

 

[CrypticOne]

February is the month with the most upsets. I wonder if this sets Bellator back?

 

[TheVileOne]

Honestly I don't think so. Mo is really not that big of a draw. I mean maybe he could've been at some point, but I think Mo sort of like Rampage is his own worst enemy. Bellator clearly wanted Mo to be their big superstar so they will just have to try and make it Newton now.

Month isn't over yet, and tomorrow Liz Carmouche is the big underdog.

 

[CrypticOne]

I don't know why, but I want Liz to knock Ronda out. Flat chance, I know. Should be a great night of fights. Can't wait.

 

[B]

If you're going to make the excuse for Dan Hardy that he lost to top guys then you have to do the same for Fitch. He lost to a Hendricks who is one of the elite in the division right now, and he lost a grappling battle to one of the best at BJJ in MMA. The draw with B.J. shouldn't have even been a draw because Fitch should have taken that second round. B.J. himself even thought that he lost right after the fight, but even then it's just a draw and not a loss.

Even with that being said he still never went on a losing streak like Hardy did.

I'm not making excuses for Hardy, I was pointing out to the person I was talking to that if Fitch's loses/draws don't warrant a cut or put pressure on him of being cut, then Dan Hardy could have at least 2 of his loses overlooked for the same reason.

Another thing, your the 2nd person who has said that BJ himself thought he lost the fight straight after it was finished, not to be rude, but I couldn't give a **** what he thought of the fight in particular straight after it was finished. There have been fights I've seen were 1 guy gets his ass beat & is peppered with shots for 3 rounds, yet at the end comes off with a comment like he felt he'd done enough to win. What matters is how the judges/spectators saw the fight & I'll be honest, from what I can recall I believe I actually agreed with the decision that the judges made. I'd need to re-watch it, however I don't plan on doing so anytime soon.

Not to mention that Hardy isn't even this hugely exciting guy like they keep trying to push. He's still around because he's a UK guy with a noticeable hair style, and they want to keep a presence over there. I get the business side of things, but that still doesn't justify cutting someone who is a top fighter. If he got his ass dominated a couple of more times like he did against Maia that would be one thing, but this is basically Dana not liking Fitch and getting rid of him while he has a chance.

It's nothing to do with him being from the UK, this might shock you, but being from the UK I can tell you the only place Dan Hardy's name might sell more tickets, is in his home town. Anywhere else in the UK his name probably hovers around the middle ground in terms of how well known he is. He isn't a big massive name I can tell you that for certain.

It's probably to do with the fact that he comes to fight, I mean if you aren't excited by a guy that has KO power in both hands, that presses forward consistently & has heart then I don't really know what will excite you in any sort of combat sport.

Watch the video I posted. Dana White has already said & made it quite clear to the idiots suggesting it's him simply hating Fitch as to why it isn't the case. Given how public Dana White is about pretty much everything regarding his feelings towards, Mayweather, Ortiz, Rampage, Jon Jones, Anderson Silva during their many spats.. why on earth would he hide some weird dislike to Jon Fitch..? It makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[B]

Honestly I don't think so. Mo is really not that big of a draw. I mean maybe he could've been at some point, but I think Mo sort of like Rampage is his own worst enemy. Bellator clearly wanted Mo to be their big superstar so they will just have to try and make it Newton now.

Month isn't over yet, and tomorrow Liz Carmouche is the big underdog.

I wonder how long it will be before Rampage fights Mo now he has left the UFC, they've talked so much **** about each other over the last year or two it's time they fought.

 

[TheVileOne]

B apparently both guys buried the hatchet and squashed the beef. But maybe they'd still be willing to fight. Mo asked Rampage to come to TNA so they could form a new Harlem Heat tag team.

 

[Project862006]

Honestly I don't think so. Mo is really not that big of a draw. I mean maybe he could've been at some point, but I think Mo sort of like Rampage is his own worst enemy. Bellator clearly wanted Mo to be their big superstar so they will just have to try and make it Newton now.

Month isn't over yet, and tomorrow Liz Carmouche is the big underdog.

unfortunately for liz ronda is a far smarter fighter than overeem and mo and doesn't fight with her hands down lol

 

[Mace Bloodstone]

Knock him out Robbie!

 

[I'm Venom]

Glad that wasn't the main event. Those two paid each other too much respect.

 

[Project862006]

great win by rousey and liz made her work for it by far ronda's toughest fight

great first fight for wmma in the ufc

 

[the-rake]

Machida vs hedo = machida vs rampage!