2011/2012 NBA Thread: Where Weather Happens

[Darthphere]

He "plans to retire," in 2014. Not soon enough, IMO.

Even then, his lackey whatever his face is seems to be the guy to take over.

 

[Matt]

Yep, which is why this season needed to be cancelled. If that happened between the N.O. fiasco and the lockout, Stern would've been fired. Had Stern been forced out instead of being allowed to retire with his dignity and legacy in tact, we'd see a total regime change which the NBA desperately needs.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

Yeah the NBA needs a new commish to run the league. I want all the old rules brought back to make the game like what it use to be in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

ESPN is showing the 5 year anniversary of Lebron James ECF performance in 2007 against Detroit in game 5. Lebron proved in that game he can be clutch if he just goes into fearless mode, LBJ needs to bring that LBJ back.

 

[Mister J]

He wasn't clutch against Boston and Chicago last year?

 

[Daniel Thompson]

LBJ was clutch, just saying I like to see him do that on a regular basis.

 

[Matt]

He wasn't clutch against Boston and Chicago last year?

Come on, J. Even a die hard Heat fan must acknowledge that there is a huge difference between being clutch when the defense is split between three star players (LeBron, Wade and Bosh) and being clutch in Cleveland when James was really their only offensive star and had to contend with entire defenses on his own.

 

[Poeman]

He wasn't clutch against Boston and Chicago last year?

Lets see how he does in the Finals.

Look, do I want Lebron to wing a ring? No...
But will he? Very likely...

Just like A-Rod found himself on a winning situation, so will other beast mode players like LeBron.

25 years down the road, a ton more people will appreciate Lebron more then they do now...

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

He wasn't clutch against Boston and Chicago last year?

Does it really matter if he choked after that?

 

[Mister J]

Does it really matter if he choked after that?

When the climate of stupid ass verbiage, masquerading as commentary is tantamount to him never having a clutch moment in his career, yes.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

Oh he has had clutch moments just he has not been consistant with it.

 

[JaD]

When the climate of stupid ass verbiage, masquerading as commentary is tantamount to him never having a clutch moment in his career, yes.

I honestly am still pretty bummed about the last page or 2 in here. I came in after the game last night to praise Rondo's unbelievable game and the only thing people were talking about was the missed call on Rondo. It's like it didn't matter how hard BOTH teams were playing in the end there. The defensive stops by the Heat, the clutch 3's by Allen & Battier. No, LeBron choked and the refs f***ed up big time and gave them the game.

 

[Doc Samson]

ESPN is showing the 5 year anniversary of Lebron James ECF performance in 2007 against Detroit in game 5. Lebron proved in that game he can be clutch if he just goes into fearless mode, LBJ needs to bring that LBJ back.

That's the problem I have. It's not really about being clutch or not, it's about being fearless. About not being scared to fail and be the bad guy sometimes.

The reason I love Kobe is because he doesn't care, truly, about failing. He doesn't concern himself with his shooting %, or who's open if they aren't consistently hitting shots. He doesn't care who thinks he plays the game "the wrong way" he's not worried about calling someone out or getting in people's faces. He's concerned with one thing, being aggressive, and I respect the hell out of that.

Is he the most efficient guy, of course not. Does he take bad shots? Sure. But he thinks every time he puts it up, it's going in. His mentality is that he's the best on the planet, and whether it's true or not, I'd rather have that guy then someone who can be virtually unstoppable but chooses when to be. It shouldn't be a choice! Your the most physically gifted specimen that's ever walked onto an NBA court, you dominate everybody and worry about people's feelings after the dust settles. Rondo guarding Lebron with the game on the line?!! Please, *in Shaq's voice*, that should've been "Barbecue Chicken."

 

[Daniel Thompson]

That's the problem I have. It's not really about being clutch or not, it's about being fearless. About not being scared to fail and be the bad guy sometimes.

The reason I love Kobe is because he doesn't care, truly, about failing. He doesn't concern himself with his shooting %, or who's open if they aren't consistently hitting shots. He doesn't care who thinks he plays the game "the wrong way" he's not worried about calling someone out or getting in people's faces. He's concerned with one thing, being aggressive, and I respect the hell out of that.

Is he the most efficient guy, of course not. Does he take bad shots? Sure. But he thinks every time he puts it up, it's going in. His mentality is that he's the best on the planet, and whether it's true or not, I'd rather have that guy then someone who can be virtually unstoppable but chooses when to be. It shouldn't be a choice! Your the most physically gifted specimen that's ever walked onto an NBA court, you dominate everybody and worry about people's feelings after the dust settles. Rondo guarding Lebron with the game on the line?!! Please, *in Shaq's voice*, that should've been "Barbecue Chicken."

Its like what I said before LBJ has the athletic ability to be the best to ever play the game but his mind set is off, he needs to grow a pair and become fearless, not be afraid to take risks. He should still be in Cleveland right now as he had good role players around him. Only thing that needed to be changed was the head coach as Mike Brown is not that good, but LBJ should of brought Bosh to Cleveland.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

When the climate of stupid ass verbiage, masquerading as commentary is tantamount to him never having a clutch moment in his career, yes.

He may be clutch in the Eastern playoffs, but I will joyfully eat a nice plate of exquisite crow if he makes a single clutch shot in the Finals.

 

[JaD]

That's the problem I have. It's not really about being clutch or not, it's about being fearless. About not being scared to fail and be the bad guy sometimes.

The reason I love Kobe is because he doesn't care, truly, about failing. He doesn't concern himself with his shooting %, or who's open if they aren't consistently hitting shots. He doesn't care who thinks he plays the game "the wrong way" he's not worried about calling someone out or getting in people's faces. He's concerned with one thing, being aggressive, and I respect the hell out of that.

Is he the most efficient guy, of course not. Does he take bad shots? Sure. But he thinks every time he puts it up, it's going in. His mentality is that he's the best on the planet, and whether it's true or not, I'd rather have that guy then someone who can be virtually unstoppable but chooses when to be. It shouldn't be a choice! Your the most physically gifted specimen that's ever walked onto an NBA court, you dominate everybody and worry about people's feelings after the dust settles. Rondo guarding Lebron with the game on the line?!! Please, *in Shaq's voice*, that should've been "Barbecue Chicken."

He took more than enough risks in Cleveland and carried a team night in and night out. He succeeded (Epic playoff clutch moments against Wizards/Detroit) at times, and failed ('07 Finals) at times. Now since he's surrounded by more talent and a champion, he has a slight mentality of feeling like he doesn't need to be the hero EVERY night, and he can dominate throughout the game and whatever happens in the end happens.

An argument can be made too that taking risks isn't always the smartest basketball. I remember the first game of this season with Kobe against Chicago, Kobe drove in to make a game winning shot but was swarmed by 3 guys and they easily swatted that shot away. At the time I thought that was incredibly dumb to drive in like that when you know you're gonna get creamed but since Kobe is fearless, he's gonna take that shot even though there had to be someone wide open.

In a game against OKC last year that the Heat won LBJ took a lot of flak (I think on here too) for having an open look for a 3 in the end, but making one last pass to Eddie House who was a much better 3 point shooter. Was that a smart decision or LeBron just being afraid? If you take out LBJ there and put Kobe in his place and Kobe made one last pass to Steve Blake would it be a smart pass or Kobe feeling afraid? LeBron's not the greatest clutch player of all time, but why do people think he is or that other great clutch players don't f*** up at times in the end?

 

[JaD]

I realize now I meant to quote Dan Thompson but I guess in a way I was responding to both comments that were pretty similar.

 

[Doc Samson]

He took more than enough risks in Cleveland and carried a team night in and night out. He succeeded (Epic playoff clutch moments against Wizards/Detroit) at times, and failed ('07 Finals) at times. Now since he's surrounded by more talent and a champion, he has a slight mentality of feeling like he doesn't need to be the hero EVERY night, and he can dominate throughout the game and whatever happens in the end happens.

An argument can be made too that taking risks isn't always the smartest basketball. I remember the first game of this season with Kobe against Chicago, Kobe drove in to make a game winning shot but was swarmed by 3 guys and they easily swatted that shot away. At the time I thought that was incredibly dumb to drive in like that when you know you're gonna get creamed but since Kobe is fearless, he's gonna take that shot even though there had to be someone wide open.

In a game against OKC last year that the Heat won LBJ took a lot of flak (I think on here too) for having an open look for a 3 in the end, but making one last pass to Eddie House who was a much better 3 point shooter. Was that a smart decision or LeBron just being afraid? If you take out LBJ there and put Kobe in his place and Kobe made one last pass to Steve Blake would it be a smart pass or Kobe feeling afraid? LeBron's not the greatest clutch player of all time, but why do people think he is or that other great clutch players don't f*** up at times in the end?

Well like I said, it's not about him being clutch, it's about fear of failure. That fear doesn't just affect him but 95% of the world, which is why people live the life they do.

Sometimes, when your 6'7 250, the wrong play is the right play. I don't knock him for how he approaches the game, given his upbringing, but at the same time, when Rondo of all people is attempting to guard you in the playoffs, you take him to the bucket. And if you get fouled, you step up and miss or make the freethrows. He seems reluctant to do that in the crunch, because I don't think he wants that responsibility of being the goat if he misses. But after the Decision, people already hate him, what's there to fear?

I realize now I meant to quote Dan Thompson but I guess in a way I was responding to both comments that were pretty similar.

No harm no foul

 

[JaD]

Well like I said, it's not about him being clutch, it's about fear of failure. That fear doesn't just affect him but 95% of the world, which is why people live the life they do.

Sometimes, when your 6'7 250, the wrong play is the right play. I don't knock him for how he approaches the game, given his upbringing, but at the same time, when Rondo of all people is attempting to guard you in the playoffs, you take him to the bucket. And if you get fouled, you step up and miss or make the freethrows. He seems reluctant to do that in the crunch, because I don't think he wants that responsibility of being the goat if he misses. But after the Decision, people already hate him, what's there to fear?

The only real "problem" is that LeBron cares about what people think of him, which is not a bad thing. I mean, I (for the most part) do as well so I try to make the best choices, and rebound if I make the wrong one.

It does affect his game at times but it hasn't stopped him from having career averages that are unmatched by anyone else currently playing. That's why I love watching him, he's amazeballs and he's also incredibly fascinating to me because of all the debate that comes up with him. All the hatred, criticism, this guy gets... There's not a chance I could finish a basketball game in his shoes, and on the road I bet, hell no.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

In a game against OKC last year that the Heat won LBJ took a lot of flak (I think on here too) for having an open look for a 3 in the end, but making one last pass to Eddie House who was a much better 3 point shooter. Was that a smart decision or LeBron just being afraid? If you take out LBJ there and put Kobe in his place and Kobe made one last pass to Steve Blake would it be a smart pass or Kobe feeling afraid? LeBron's not the greatest clutch player of all time, but why do people think he is or that other great clutch players don't f*** up at times in the end?

Kobe did pass to Blake for a last shot attempt in one of the Playoff games this year, but he was totally wide open and missed the shot. So thats a reason Kobe has to take his shots in the 4th. Lebron always changes his game in the 4th, he fears failure so he doesnt try.

 

[Doc Samson]

The only real "problem" is that LeBron cares about what people think of him, which is not a bad thing. I mean, I (for the most part) do as well so I try to make the best choices, and rebound if I make the wrong one.

It does affect his game at times but it hasn't stopped him from having career averages that are unmatched by anyone else currently playing. That's why I love watching him, he's amazeballs and he's also incredibly fascinating to me because of all the debate that comes up with him. All the hatred, criticism, this guy gets... There's not a chance I could finish a basketball game in his shoes, and on the road I bet, hell no.

Therein lies the rub though. IMO, when he decides to, he's better than anyone that's ever played the game. Yes, anyone. So it's frustrating to see someone like that concerned with what outsiders think. I do believe worrying about other people's opinions is a bad thing, for anybody, but especially for any entertainer or athlete in the public light. Outside of family, Lebron shouldn't even think twice of someone's thoughts.

 

[Doc Samson]

Kobe did pass to Blake for a last shot attempt in one of the Playoff games this year, but he was totally wide open and missed the shot. So thats a reason Kobe has to take his shots in the 4th. Lebron always changes his game in the 4th, he fears failure so he doesnt try.

Yeah people act like this stuff with Lebron is new, people still question Kobe, 5 RINGS LATER!

How quickly we forget that Game 7 in '06 against Phoenix. People remember that game but they don't remember the one before it that made Kobe try to prove a point.

He let the criticism from Game 6 get to him, when the media, even Phil, crucified him for not passing enough. Even though he had, I believe, 55 points and pushed the game to OT single-handed. So he let all that talk upset him and decided he wasn't going to be ultra aggressive in Game 7 (even though he still had over 20 pts)

But point being, that was the last time he's done that. He learned that it doesn't matter what he does, he'll be criticized regardless. It took years for that to happen, as he would do the same shenanigans when Shaq would run his mouth, so I have faith Lebron might get there one day too. And if he ever does, look out...

 

[JaD]

Kobe did pass to Blake for a last shot attempt in one of the Playoff games this year, but he was totally wide open and missed the shot. So thats a reason Kobe has to take his shots in the 4th. Lebron always changes his game in the 4th, he fears failure so he doesnt try.

So trust in your teammates is not in the cards for #6? Just the fact that he MUST be afraid to miss a shot in the last minute if he chooses to not take it?

Kobe has to take the shots in the end because he has 5 championships under his belt and has the right to not take the blame if a shot doesn't fall in the end. And quite frankly, unless he's tossing an easy alleyoop to Bynum Or Gasol no one else is taking a jumpshot in the end of a Laker game when the game is on the line.

Every game is different by the way, so you have to change it up. I saw LeBron last night fighting for offensive boards and netting assists since his shots weren't falling towards the end and in OT.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

I realize now I meant to quote Dan Thompson but I guess in a way I was responding to both comments that were pretty similar.

Well Kobe has ****ed up sometimes, but most of the time he is clutch. Plus LBJ did give up on his team in the 2010 ECF against Boston, I dono if I ever saw Kobe give up on his team. I know you will say well he gives up on his teammates alot and goes ham on the opposing opponents, but what I mean by ''giving up'' is Kobe never said screw it in the playoffs, do not care if we win or lose. Seems like to me LBJ had that mind set in the ECF against Boston in 2010 as he did not play hard at all.

LBJ is not clutch most of the time, sometimes he is but not most of the time. And I understand he does not have to save his team every night cause he has another superstar, but Jordan had another superstar in Pippen and he still was ''the man''.

 

[JaD]

Well Kobe has ****ed up sometimes, but most of the time he is clutch. Plus LBJ did give up on his team in the 2010 ECF against Boston, I dono if I ever saw Kobe give up on his team. I know you will say well he gives up on his teammates alot and goes ham on the opposing opponents, but what I mean by ''giving up'' is Kobe never said screw it in the playoffs, do not care if we win or lose. Seems like to me LBJ had that mind set in the ECF against Boston in 2010 as he did not play hard at all.

I know I've heard people saying that he gave up but I also remember seeing the Cavs getting hammered by Boston in that series. He also put up a triple double in his last game with them (I remember it was something like 27 10+ 10+, something someone like Kobe would never put up), which couldn't even get it done. I'm sure something was wrong, but I don't think he gave up in that one terrible game he had. It's easy to say he gave up from a fan's perspective since everyone was talking free agency, but he was 2 rounds away from the Finals.

LBJ is not clutch most of the time, sometimes he is but not most of the time. And I understand he does not have to save his team every night cause he has another superstar, but Jordan had another superstar in Pippen and he still was ''the man''.

Pippen and Wade are 2 completely different superstars. Jordan made Pippen that much better. Wade is well, Dwyane Wade for crying out loud.