2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 2

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I was talking about what Peter King said last year about Cowher wanting the Giants job. I'm not sure what Dallas has to do with it.

At some point when I read that on my phone, it said Dallas! Curse you and your crafty editting!! :argh:

Or maybe I'm just going senile. :(

Coughlin has a contract with the NY Giants through the 2012 season. I think this year is a wash because the Giants have been decimated with injuries but I think if 2012 is uneventful, Coughlin will be let go and we'd see if Peter King is right although, I've stated that I heard Bettis say the same thing about Cowher wanting to coach in NY.

All of this speculation was pre-Kaye Cowher's death. I just can't see Cowher, who has a ring, giving up time with his daughters to start working 80 hours a week again when he clearly loves doing NFL Today.
 
Well his 2 older daughters did go to Princeton and are out of school? Not sure if all his daughters live in NC. And I thought his youngest graduates in 2013.
 
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Am I the only one that thinks Jon Gruden may not coach ever again? You can tell he loves his ESPN/MNF gig.
 
Am I the only one that thinks Jon Gruden may not coach ever again? You can tell he loves his ESPN/MNF gig.

If he ever made that decision, he would become the best analyst on TV. His biggest problem is the over-the-top man love he gives to everyone important due to his wishing not to burn any bridges that may be needed at a later time.
 
Well his 2 older daughters did go to Princeton and are out of school? Not sure if all his daughters live in NC. And I thought his youngest graduates in 2013.

Apparently he spends a lot of time with them. More than he would be able to afford if he were a head coach again.

Am I the only one that thinks Jon Gruden may not coach ever again? You can tell he loves his ESPN/MNF gig.

I'm not sure. I think he may do it again, but not any time soon. I think if he wanted the Cleveland job, he could've had it. And if he's not going to take his home town job, working with his mentor again and a young, promising quarterback....then what job would he take? I think it'll be awhile before he is back on the sidelines.
 
Am I the only one that thinks Jon Gruden may not coach ever again? You can tell he loves his ESPN/MNF gig.

I think Gruden loves his MNF job, but he's still young, so I won't rule him out of future coaching job. Same with Cowher.
 
I can totally understand how most NFL fans can't label Stafford (or, by extension, his Lions) as elite yet. There is a lot of hype in this league and too often it doesn't pan out (I was quite fond of the Texans for years until Cushing got busted for roids and blamed it on cancer). But that's what is so exciting about this team. Most are ready to accept that the Lions are good, but few (including, and especially those in, the media) really grasp at just how good they could be.

The Lions have one of the best front offices, best coaching staffs, best scouting departments and, now, best QBs in the NFL. They have two of the most freakish athletes in the game. They have depth at the positions where you need it. We are watching the birth of a new Ravens/Steelers/Patriots/Packers-type organization.

And it is so damn exciting to watch.

And it this reason that I love the NFL.

Now that proves my point then, the Lions aren't elite and neither is their QB. What they have is the very real, very substantive potential to be great when all the pieces are working in conjunction with one another. You've had a classy and sharp front office & coaching, but a laundry list of injury prone talent but now that all seems to have changed this season.

So it all hinges on your Lions bringing all that potential to fruition this season and continuing whatever success they find into the next season to solidify themselves as one of the top teams in the NFL.

So 1 game down, at least another 15 to go.:awesome:
 
Exactly, the Lions are a team that has potential. Of course, the Lions have had potential many times in the past 20 years and have blown it every time. Having potential doesn't always mean that you will fulfill the potential. I think Charlie Batch was incredibly promising as a young player and the Lions sucked that potential right out of him through stupid moves and bad coaching.

The Lions have a pretty easy first half of the schedule....but come week 7, things are going to get VERY tough for them. We'll see just how much that potential translates into success. If they don't show substantial success this year (9-7, a winning season) then I think that it is time to get rid of Schwartz. Sack him and bring in a veteran coach like Cowher, Billick, Dungy or Gruden who knows how to produce on field success and take the potential to the next level. I think that a veteran coach would do a lot of good for the Lions. Probably three of those four guys aren't looking to return to the NFL at the moment, so I'd say that great fits for the Lions would be Billick (as I like the idea of an offensive minded coach for that team) or Jeff Fisher. Jeff Fisher would definitely know how to turn this Lions team's potential into success. I actually quite like that idea.
 
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If he ever made that decision, he would become the best analyst on TV. His biggest problem is the over-the-top man love he gives to everyone important due to his wishing not to burn any bridges that may be needed at a later time.

I really like Gruden in the booth, but I agree, I wouldn't mind if he toned things down just a bit.

He gets a little over the top with his "THIS GUY" all of the time.
 
Now that proves my point then, the Lions aren't elite and neither is their QB. What they have is the very real, very substantive potential to be great when all the pieces are working in conjunction with one another. You've had a classy and sharp front office & coaching, but a laundry list of injury prone talent but now that all seems to have changed this season.

So it all hinges on your Lions bringing all that potential to fruition this season and continuing whatever success they find into the next season to solidify themselves as one of the top teams in the NFL.

So 1 game down, at least another 15 to go.:awesome:

Both the team and the QB play at an elite level. They don't need reps on the field or time together to "fufill" their potential. All they have to do is play.

I don't think the team becomes elite as they win, I think they win because they are elite.

Stafford plays at an elite level. You take his game tape to any defensive coordinator and they will tell you that. Now in order to be perceived as elite by the masses, he has to stay healthy so he can play, but that doesn't change the quality of his play.

And as far as "getting over" having young injury prone talent - as we keep rolling up wins - remember we essentially are without our first and two second round picks. (Young is active, but playing catchup after missing the preseason)
 
Exactly, the Lions are a team that has potential. Of course, the Lions have had potential many times in the past 20 years and have blown it every time. Having potential doesn't always mean that you will fulfill the potential. I think Charlie Batch was incredibly promising as a young player and the Lions sucked that potential right out of him through stupid moves and bad coaching.

The Lions have a pretty easy first half of the schedule....but come week 7, things are going to get VERY tough for them. We'll see just how much that potential translates into success. If they don't show substantial success this year (9-7, a winning season) then I think that it is time to get rid of Schwartz. Sack him and bring in a veteran coach like Cowher, Billick, Dungy or Gruden who knows how to produce on field success and take the potential to the next level. I think that a veteran coach would do a lot of good for the Lions. Probably three of those four guys aren't looking to return to the NFL at the moment, so I'd say that great fits for the Lions would be Billick (as I like the idea of an offensive minded coach for that team) or Jeff Fisher. Jeff Fisher would definitely know how to turn this Lions team's potential into success. I actually quite like that idea.

The Lions have never had this much talent, but the quality of players on a team doesn't matter if the braintrust isn't there. Its not simply a coaching matter, its the gm and president/vp/ceo/owner/whoever handles the day-to-day.

The Lions are going to win more than 10 games, so your hypothetical is irrelevant, but we aren't ditching Schwartz. He's all the intelligence of Belicheck with the leadership of Jeff Fisher.
 
I put the Lions slightly above the Cowboys.
 
Both the team and the QB play at an elite level. They don't need reps on the field or time together to "fufill" their potential. All they have to do is play.

I don't think the team becomes elite as they win, I think they win because they are elite.

Stafford plays at an elite level. You take his game tape to any defensive coordinator and they will tell you that. Now in order to be perceived as elite by the masses, he has to stay healthy so he can play, but that doesn't change the quality of his play.

And as far as "getting over" having young injury prone talent - as we keep rolling up wins - remember we essentially are without our first and two second round picks. (Young is active, but playing catchup after missing the preseason)

Norm, come on, don't do this man. You're taking this to a level of fanaticism and it's just not substantiated by what we've seen to date. I've already said that your franchise as a whole as spectacular potential but you labeling them as elite when they don't have anything to show for it aside from potential is borderline crazy.

Matt Stafford is not elite and I don't know what film you're looking at that raises him to that level when he's yet to do anything of the sort for a full season. This idea that he's simply elite and the world needs to recognize it, nevermind the product on the field is just baseless. Take any elite QB from Steve Young to Peyton Manning, and you'll see they had to earn the title on the field through continued success.

Not only that, they had to grow into that title. It's tough seasons, rough games, & experience that produces coupled with their natural talent that ended up making them Elite.

As of right now, all Matt has is that raw talent, that potential and we've seen flashes of brilliance but that's not an automatic qualifier for 'Elite'. We've seen these same flashes from a long list of QBs that ended up being everything from total busts to mediocre to pretty good through bad coaching, mismanagement from the front office, injury, etc.

I understand you want to put the weight of the world on the kid as a Lions fan but you're doing him a disservice trying to catapult him into the same class as Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. He's damn good, don't demean that with these overly high expectations.
 
Urlacher's mother unexpectedly passed away on Monday. Right now his status for Sunday's game is unknown. That sucks, I believe he was very close with her.
 
Both the team and the QB play at an elite level. They don't need reps on the field or time together to "fufill" their potential. All they have to do is play.

I don't think the team becomes elite as they win, I think they win because they are elite.

Stafford plays at an elite level. You take his game tape to any defensive coordinator and they will tell you that. Now in order to be perceived as elite by the masses, he has to stay healthy so he can play, but that doesn't change the quality of his play.

And as far as "getting over" having young injury prone talent - as we keep rolling up wins - remember we essentially are without our first and two second round picks. (Young is active, but playing catchup after missing the preseason)

Matthew Stafford hasn't played enough games as a starter to be labeled as an elite yet. Cam Newton played like an elite QB in his first game too, but he also can't be called an elite just because of one game. If Stafford can maintain relative good health and make the Pro-bowl and playoff with superb performances, then he will deserve the elite label.
 
Urlacher's mother unexpectedly passed away on Monday. Right now his status for Sunday's game is unknown. That sucks, I believe he was very close with her.

That's terrible. :csad: Condolescences to Urlacher and his family.
 
Urlacher's mother unexpectedly passed away on Monday. Right now his status for Sunday's game is unknown. That sucks, I believe he was very close with her.

Aw, sorry to hear that. :csad:
I read this morning where he left Chicago due to a family emergency, as ESPN dubbed it.
 
Urlacher recently released a statement confirming her passing. No real details, though. Sounds like there was no evidence of foul play, but she was only 51. That is way too young to go.
 
Norm, come on, don't do this man. You're taking this to a level of fanaticism and it's just not substantiated by what we've seen to date. I've already said that your franchise as a whole as spectacular potential but you labeling them as elite when they don't have anything to show for it aside from potential is borderline crazy.

Matt Stafford is not elite and I don't know what film you're looking at that raises him to that level when he's yet to do anything of the sort for a full season. This idea that he's simply elite and the world needs to recognize it, nevermind the product on the field is just baseless. Take any elite QB from Steve Young to Peyton Manning, and you'll see they had to earn the title on the field through continued success.

Not only that, they had to grow into that title. It's tough seasons, rough games, & experience that produces coupled with their natural talent that ended up making them Elite.

As of right now, all Matt has is that raw talent, that potential and we've seen flashes of brilliance but that's not an automatic qualifier for 'Elite'. We've seen these same flashes from a long list of QBs that ended up being everything from total busts to mediocre to pretty good through bad coaching, mismanagement from the front office, injury, etc.

I understand you want to put the weight of the world on the kid as a Lions fan but you're doing him a disservice trying to catapult him into the same class as Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. He's damn good, don't demean that with these overly high expectations.

Again, if I was trying to make the case that the Lions HAVE BEEN an elite team, then the complaints of "it's just not substantiated by what we've seen" would be valid. But that's not what I am saying.

1900-2010 are irrelevant when talking about the best teams in 2011. Anyone who watches the NFL should know that each year is different. The Lions, in 2011, are (and will demonstrate themselves to be) an elite team. If we were to remove the stickers from the helmets, the nameplates from the jerseys and evaluate all 32 teams in a vacuum, the way the Lions team is built would be placed in an elite category.

This isn't fandom, I can extend this classification to a few other teams (including your Ravens). (Similarly I can point out the weaknesses of other teams/causes I support). This is a declaration based on an understanding of the sport of professional football. Now it will be proven correct or incorrect, I am not saying that people who don't know the Lions should be placing them amongst the likes of the Patriots and Ravens. That sort of treatment requires time. But a team doesn't become elite because fans perceive them as such, a team becomes elite by being elite. By placing the right players in the right scheme with the right depth. The Lions are built the right way.

As far as Stafford goes, I am doing him no "disservice". For one, I am not really saying anything that hasn't been said by others, but beyond that he is deserving of my praise. The stats of his last four games (against Chicago, Washington, NY Jets and Tampa) are 81-129 62% 9 TD 2 INT 110 QB rating. Now yes, four games don't make a season but when you mix in his pre-season performance and everything we know about this guy (his freaskish memory recall, his outstanding football IQ, his knack for game winning drives, his iron man performance against Cleveland, etc.) the burden of proof becomes increasingly placed on the side of his doubters. (He is also no more-likely to get injured due to his past injuries.)

Now the whole team may perish in a plane crash this year, or Suh, Calvin Johnson and Matthew Stafford may all have career ending injuries. Fine. But you place the Lions 53 against any other in the league and the Lions are as good as any team out there.
 
Lions still in 4th place in NFC North despite win

Just where they feel most comfortable.

jgT9Rl.jpg
 
I hate to say this, but I hope Urlacher doesn't play Sunday agaisnt the Saints.
 
The Lions are going to win more than 10 games, so your hypothetical is irrelevant, but we aren't ditching Schwartz. He's all the intelligence of Belicheck with the leadership of Jeff Fisher.
Wait... what?
 
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