2011 NFL Thread: The Lazarus Season - Part 2

[BlackLantern]

I love Norm.....his faith is in his Lions is nigh unshakable

 

[Matt]

Again, if I was trying to make the case that the Lions HAVE BEEN an elite team, then the complaints of "it's just not substantiated by what we've seen" would be valid. But that's not what I am saying.

1900-2010 are irrelevant when talking about the best teams in 2011. Anyone who watches the NFL should know that each year is different. The Lions, in 2011, are (and will demonstrate themselves to be) an elite team. If we were to remove the stickers from the helmets, the nameplates from the jerseys and evaluate all 32 teams in a vacuum, the way the Lions team is built would be placed in an elite category.

This isn't fandom, I can extend this classification to a few other teams (including your Ravens). (Similarly I can point out the weaknesses of other teams/causes I support). This is a declaration based on an understanding of the sport of professional football. Now it will be proven correct or incorrect, I am not saying that people who don't know the Lions should be placing them amongst the likes of the Patriots and Ravens. That sort of treatment requires time. But a team doesn't become elite because fans perceive them as such, a team becomes elite by being elite. By placing the right players in the right scheme with the right depth. The Lions are built the right way.

As far as Stafford goes, I am doing him no "disservice". For one, I am not really saying anything that hasn't been said by others, but beyond that he is deserving of my praise. The stats of his last four games (against Chicago, Washington, NY Jets and Tampa) are 81-129 62% 9 TD 2 INT 110 QB rating. Now yes, four games don't make a season but when you mix in his pre-season performance and everything we know about this guy (his freaskish memory recall, his outstanding football IQ, his knack for game winning drives, his iron man performance against Cleveland, etc.) the burden of proof becomes increasingly placed on the side of his doubters. (He is also no more-likely to get injured due to his past injuries.)

Now the whole team may perish in a plane crash this year, or Suh, Calvin Johnson and Matthew Stafford may all have career ending injuries. Fine. But you place the Lions 53 against any other in the league and the Lions are as good as any team out there.

 

[Matt]

Again, if I was trying to make the case that the Lions HAVE BEEN an elite team, then the complaints of "it's just not substantiated by what we've seen" would be valid. But that's not what I am saying.

1900-2010 are irrelevant when talking about the best teams in 2011. Anyone who watches the NFL should know that each year is different. The Lions, in 2011, are (and will demonstrate themselves to be) an elite team. If we were to remove the stickers from the helmets, the nameplates from the jerseys and evaluate all 32 teams in a vacuum, the way the Lions team is built would be placed in an elite category.

This isn't fandom, I can extend this classification to a few other teams (including your Ravens). (Similarly I can point out the weaknesses of other teams/causes I support). This is a declaration based on an understanding of the sport of professional football. Now it will be proven correct or incorrect, I am not saying that people who don't know the Lions should be placing them amongst the likes of the Patriots and Ravens. That sort of treatment requires time. But a team doesn't become elite because fans perceive them as such, a team becomes elite by being elite. By placing the right players in the right scheme with the right depth. The Lions are built the right way.

As far as Stafford goes, I am doing him no "disservice". For one, I am not really saying anything that hasn't been said by others, but beyond that he is deserving of my praise. The stats of his last four games (against Chicago, Washington, NY Jets and Tampa) are 81-129 62% 9 TD 2 INT 110 QB rating. Now yes, four games don't make a season but when you mix in his pre-season performance and everything we know about this guy (his freaskish memory recall, his outstanding football IQ, his knack for game winning drives, his iron man performance against Cleveland, etc.) the burden of proof becomes increasingly placed on the side of his doubters. (He is also no more-likely to get injured due to his past injuries.)

Now the whole team may perish in a plane crash this year, or Suh, Calvin Johnson and Matthew Stafford may all have career ending injuries. Fine. But you place the Lions 53 against any other in the league and the Lions are as good as any team out there.

 

[Kane52630]

Cool double post, bro

 

[Matt]

So much denial that it needed two posts.

 

[Hush]

Wow, I feel bad for urlacher. The guy is so nice too.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So much denial that it needed two posts.

We got is a viscious Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady discussion last night and I simply eat up how when you can't argue based on wins somehow winning ceases to matter and you get all the excuses for losing while no one else does.

I also love hypotheticals: hypothetically if Bledsoe played for Dallas and Aikman played for the Patriots and the sun was red and gave them Superman-esque powers, and God intervened on Bledsoe's behalf in playoff games, and I have a 12 inch sclong and Karl Rove got run over in a horrible steam-roller accident then, of course, the Lions would have six superbowls and Brady would be selling jeans and Abercrombie and Finch.

See it's fun to play the "make sh** up" game.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I love Norm.....his faith is in his Lions is nigh unshakable

The Lions are not bad this year, that said, it'll take a lot of injuries on the Bears and the Packers before they even have a shot (Heck, both those teams have solid backups and losing Cutler may well be an improvement).

 

[Quetzal]

Feel bad for Urlacher. Feel bad for Jon Beason and Panthers too. The Panthers needed him to rock our def, without him we will be forced to play arena bowl style all year if we want to win.

 

[BlackLantern]

the Giants vs the Rams this weekend in "whos going to be more meaningless this season?" game

 

[Matt]

No, that would be the Colts vs the Browns.

 

[BlackLantern]

oh jesus...is that gonna be a s*** show or what

maybe Colt McCoy takes advantage and throws for a thousand yards

 

[steintym]

Mmmm ... Hawaiian blue Kool-Aid. Anyone want a taste?

I love the enthusiasm, but I'll still take the wait and see approach with the Lions. Seems like I've seen this film before.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I've seen nothing from Stafford that, to me, communicates to me that he'll be an elite quarterback. To be an elite quarterback you need to show consistency of play for an extended period of time.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Mmmm ... Hawaiian blue Kool-Aid. Anyone want a taste?

I love the enthusiasm, but I'll still take the wait and see approach with the Lions. Seems like I've seen this film before.

They went undefeated in the preseason, coming out as a team to watch the year they went 0-16.

 

[BlackLantern]

if everyone is elite, than no one is

 

[steintym]

I remember when Scott Mitchell was an "elite" QB.

 

[BlackLantern]

Eli isn't an elite QB, but he managed a super bowl.....so did Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Again, if I was trying to make the case that the Lions HAVE BEEN an elite team, then the complaints of "it's just not substantiated by what we've seen" would be valid. But that's not what I am saying.

1900-2010 are irrelevant when talking about the best teams in 2011. Anyone who watches the NFL should know that each year is different. The Lions, in 2011, are (and will demonstrate themselves to be) an elite team. If we were to remove the stickers from the helmets, the nameplates from the jerseys and evaluate all 32 teams in a vacuum, the way the Lions team is built would be placed in an elite category.

This isn't fandom, I can extend this classification to a few other teams (including your Ravens). (Similarly I can point out the weaknesses of other teams/causes I support). This is a declaration based on an understanding of the sport of professional football. Now it will be proven correct or incorrect, I am not saying that people who don't know the Lions should be placing them amongst the likes of the Patriots and Ravens. That sort of treatment requires time. But a team doesn't become elite because fans perceive them as such, a team becomes elite by being elite. By placing the right players in the right scheme with the right depth. The Lions are built the right way.

As far as Stafford goes, I am doing him no "disservice". For one, I am not really saying anything that hasn't been said by others, but beyond that he is deserving of my praise. The stats of his last four games (against Chicago, Washington, NY Jets and Tampa) are 81-129 62% 9 TD 2 INT 110 QB rating. Now yes, four games don't make a season but when you mix in his pre-season performance and everything we know about this guy (his freaskish memory recall, his outstanding football IQ, his knack for game winning drives, his iron man performance against Cleveland, etc.) the burden of proof becomes increasingly placed on the side of his doubters. (He is also no more-likely to get injured due to his past injuries.)

Now the whole team may perish in a plane crash this year, or Suh, Calvin Johnson and Matthew Stafford may all have career ending injuries. Fine. But you place the Lions 53 against any other in the league and the Lions are as good as any team out there.

Alright Norm, I'm just going to leave it here, there's really not a point to arguing it any further.

I've actually given your team alot of credit & taken nothing away but you seem to be taking any objective analysis as a knock on your team. We can simply agree to allow the Lions play on the field determine the debate.

As to that Colts / Browns game, who the hell would have thought they'd go down in flames this quickly? Still, they should have enough in the tank to take the Browns.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Eli isn't an elite QB, but he managed a super bowl.....so did Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson

Jim Plunkett, a man with two, is not in the Hall of Fame.

Brady and Manning (and probably Rodgers) are in my opinion the only ones who have earned the title "Elite", with Roethlisberger, Vick, Rivers and Brees as very strong candidates for the title. After that, I think the term shouldn't be thrown around.

 

[Wheels]

I wish I was that optimistic about The Steelers this year.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

As far as Stafford goes, I am doing him no "disservice". For one, I am not really saying anything that hasn't been said by others, but beyond that he is deserving of my praise. The stats of his last four games (against Chicago, Washington, NY Jets and Tampa) are 81-129 62% 9 TD 2 INT 110 QB rating. Now yes, four games don't make a season but when you mix in his pre-season performance and everything we know about this guy (his freaskish memory recall, his outstanding football IQ, his knack for game winning drives, his iron man performance against Cleveland, etc.) the burden of proof becomes increasingly placed on the side of his doubters. (He is also no more-likely to get injured due to his past injuries.)

I think that's the only time I've ever seen "iron man performance against Cleveland (?!?!?)" not written sarcastically.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

Jim Plunkett, a man with two, is not in the Hall of Fame.

Brady and Manning (and probably Rodgers) are in my opinion the only ones who have earned the title "Elite", with Roethlisberger, Vick, Rivers and Brees as very strong candidates for the title. After that, I think the term shouldn't be thrown around.

I'd probably put Brees in that upper tier.

This makes me rather nauseous, but if you focus on being able to win games and less on stats and precision, then you'd.....

Have to add Big Ben to that list.

 

[Wheels]

I'd probably put Brees in that upper tier.

This makes me rather nauseous, but if you focus on being able to win games and less on stats and precision, then you'd.....

Have to add Big Ben to that list.

Gee thanks for the ringing endorsement lol.

 

[Genesis 1.0]

I feel dirty.