Superman Returns A better way to deal with New Krypton?

"V"

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Not sure where to put this so I started a new thread.

The idea (so we were told) was Superman looking for his place in the World - he left to find out who he really is and where he came from. And when he came back the World has moved on without him, they don't want/need him anymore. His trip to Krypton ultimately ends in failure and he's lost what he used to have.

Surely New Krypton should have presented him with the chance to be back on his homeworld, Luthor could have used it to tempt him. 'Look, you're home. Isn't this what you wanted?'. It would have given more drama to the story, Superman has what he wants, the chance to experience home. The public doesn't want him anymore, why shouldn't he do something for himself? He's then faced with the choice, discover who he is or to save the Earth from destruction (Prehaps Krypton could have grown gradually destroying Earth and replacing it).
 
Out of thousands of possibilities, the filmmakers chose the worst and least creative.

This will probably be moved to the complaints thread though. But your idea is certainly much better than what they came up with.
 
Or at the very least in a sequel he could set up a new 'home' or new fortress on the floating chunk of it, sort of like the JLA satellite.

Your suggestion would have added more depth to the story though!
 
I really really like your idea. It gives a lot more depth to it, and actually, the decision he would have to make would be a hard one. The world he's always longed to be with or saving a planet that no longer wants him.

Awesome idea "V". Kinda makes me wish we had gotten this instead.
 
V said:
Not sure where to put this so I started a new thread.

The idea (so we were told) was Superman looking for his place in the World - he left to find out who he really is and where he came from. And when he came back the World has moved on without him, they don't want/need him anymore. His trip to Krypton ultimately ends in failure and he's lost what he used to have.

Surely New Krypton should have presented him with the chance to be back on his homeworld, Luthor could have used it to tempt him. 'Look, you're home. Isn't this what you wanted?'. It would have given more drama to the story, Superman has what he wants, the chance to experience home. The public doesn't want him anymore, why shouldn't he do something for himself? He's then faced with the choice, discover who he is or to save the Earth from destruction (Prehaps Krypton could have grown gradually destroying Earth and replacing it).
But he wasn't looking for "a place" but "a people".

With the Fortress of Solitude already being in the Arctic...he had a reasonable facsimilie of "a place" (Krypton)....what he was looking for was Kryptonians. He had been told by the image of his father that he was the last of his people....and then one day 3 Kryptonians show up and attack the world. Most anyone is going to want to investigate that. He goes there...and as he reports to Martha - "That place was a graveyard." So when Lex starts making NK...there is nothing about that (even if it hadn't have been laced with Kryptonite) to interest him as a bribe.

Superman was looking for "family"....not necessarily "blood" kin, but for lack of a better word at the moment "ethnic" family. Many, but not all, adopted people want somekind of connection to thier blood family. Many people who adopt kids outside of thier race, will help them connect to the ethnic history of thier blood parents race and country of origin. Superman now knows that he can do neither. He now knows that his entire race is really dead (except for the possibility of another anomoly like himself or the villianous three....and that becomes a needle in a haystack search throughout the galaxy).
 
C. Lee said:
But he wasn't looking for "a place" but "a people".

With the Fortress of Solitude already being in the Arctic...he had a reasonable facsimilie of "a place" (Krypton)....what he was looking for was Kryptonians. He had been told by the image of his father that he was the last of his people....and then one day 3 Kryptonians show up and attack the world. Most anyone is going to want to investigate that. He goes there...and as he reports to Martha - "That place was a graveyard." So when Lex starts making NK...there is nothing about that (even if it hadn't have been laced with Kryptonite) to interest him as a bribe.

Superman was looking for "family"....not necessarily "blood" kin, but for lack of a better word at the moment "ethnic" family. Many, but not all, adopted people want somekind of connection to thier blood family. Many people who adopt kids outside of thier race, will help them connect to the ethnic history of thier blood parents race and country of origin. Superman now knows that he can do neither. He now knows that his entire race is really dead (except for the possibility of another anomoly like himself or the villianous three....and that becomes a needle in a haystack search throughout the galaxy).

If that was the intention, solely to find survivors then it wasn't demonstrated clearly in the film. Also the crystals reveal in Superman II about where Zod an co came from the phantom zone. I don't believe after all was said and done after II that he wouldn't have gone back and asked questions?

The whole ploy of Jason was to show that he isn't alone. But according to the writers there will be more Kryptonians in a sequel which sort of makes the idea of Jason showing him he isn't alone pointless.
 
V said:
Not sure where to put this so I started a new thread.

The idea (so we were told) was Superman looking for his place in the World - he left to find out who he really is and where he came from. And when he came back the World has moved on without him, they don't want/need him anymore. His trip to Krypton ultimately ends in failure and he's lost what he used to have.

Surely New Krypton should have presented him with the chance to be back on his homeworld, Luthor could have used it to tempt him. 'Look, you're home. Isn't this what you wanted?'. It would have given more drama to the story, Superman has what he wants, the chance to experience home. The public doesn't want him anymore, why shouldn't he do something for himself? He's then faced with the choice, discover who he is or to save the Earth from destruction (Prehaps Krypton could have grown gradually destroying Earth and replacing it).

Your idea is not compatiable with how much Luthor hates Superman, at this point. He's not interesting in doing ANYTHING for the man. He wants to kill him, not help him. His ego was large enough to think he could lace it with Kryptonite and kill Superman.

To me, to attempt to help Superman and rest the entire success of your plan upon Superman wanting to "be at home" would've been just plain weak, like many of these naysayers posts.
 
V said:
If that was the intention, solely to find survivors then it wasn't demonstrated clearly in the film. Also the crystals reveal in Superman II about where Zod an co came from the phantom zone. I don't believe after all was said and done after II that he wouldn't have gone back and asked questions?

The whole ploy of Jason was to show that he isn't alone. But according to the writers there will be more Kryptonians in a sequel which sort of makes the idea of Jason showing him he isn't alone pointless.
First of all...remember that I am not saying I am for or against any plot line or ideas....I am just throwing out possible answers to some questions brought up.

Not truely knowing what all was originally shot and then left out of this version of the film...we don't know if another cut would have made that clearer.

And I believe that it was originally thought that no one would ever be able to leave the Phantom Zone....so if it is proven that the crystal is wrong about that, he would have to check to see what else it was wrong about.

WE haven't seen the rumored recut of Superman II that is supposed to released...so we don't know how that will effect continuity.

The story of Superman from the beginning was that he was "the sole survivor of Krypton"....and his stories are jammed with more Kryptonians that pop out of one place or another than you can shake a stick at. So we don't know how they will adapt these to the new movies.
 
V said:
If that was the intention, solely to find survivors then it wasn't demonstrated clearly in the film. Also the crystals reveal in Superman II about where Zod an co came from the phantom zone. I don't believe after all was said and done after II that he wouldn't have gone back and asked questions?

The whole ploy of Jason was to show that he isn't alone. But according to the writers there will be more Kryptonians in a sequel which sort of makes the idea of Jason showing him he isn't alone pointless.

He certainly should know the three kryptonians were from the phantom zone.:confused:

Now that'd have been an interesting story. superman searching the phantom zone for surviving kryptonians. I think that happened on the animated series.
 
bosef982 said:
Your idea is not compatiable with how much Luthor hates Superman, at this point. He's not interesting in doing ANYTHING for the man. He wants to kill him, not help him. His ego was large enough to think he could lace it with Kryptonite and kill Superman.

To me, to attempt to help Superman and rest the entire success of your plan upon Superman wanting to "be at home" would've been just plain weak, like many of these naysayers posts.

Well I wouldn't have done that storyline at all, but there was no depth or impact about New Krypton. Of course Lex wouldn't be doing it to be a pal to Superman, he'd be doing it for his ends.

The success of Lex's plan rested on slowly sinking the rest of the World, and may I ask how was he going to survive on his piece of real estate? Where would they have grown food? Water (because that was sea water circulating round there)? Where would he sleep? How would he know he wasn't going to get nuked? Poor plan, and a poor plot.

To be honest I think having the people turn against Superman rather than continuing to worship him would have had a bigger impact. And sacrificing himself for a race that dowa not want him is stronger than doing the same thing for a race who think he can do no wrong (say like leaving for five years without warning after 'I'll never let you down again' in Superman II).
 
V said:
Well I wouldn't have done that storyline at all, but there was no depth or impact about New Krypton. Of course Lex wouldn't be doing it to be a pal to Superman, he'd be doing it for his ends.

The success Lex's plan rested on slowly sinking the rest of the World, and may I ask how was he going to survive on his piece of real estate? Where would they have grown food? Water (because that was sea water circulating round there)? Where would he sleep? How would he know he wasn't going to get nuked? Poor plan, and a poor plot.

To be honest I think having the people turn against Superman rather than continuing to worship him would have had a bigger impact. And sacrificing himself for a race that dowa not want him is stronger than doing the same thing for a race who think he can do no wrong (say like leaving for five years without warning after 'I'll never let you down again' in Superman II).

Where was all the food on krypton when it was shown back in the day? He has alien technology. There are probably a variety of means available to him via that technology to create food, landscape, etc.
 
Oh now that'd have been great if Lex luthor sort of became the new superman and superman would be made to feel even more alienated because luthor gave the people ways of saving themselves... but in the end, luthor's insane sceheme threatens the world and "this looks like a job for" you know who...

not a bad idea..
 
V said:
Not sure where to put this so I started a new thread.

The idea (so we were told) was Superman looking for his place in the World - he left to find out who he really is and where he came from. And when he came back the World has moved on without him, they don't want/need him anymore. His trip to Krypton ultimately ends in failure and he's lost what he used to have.

Surely New Krypton should have presented him with the chance to be back on his homeworld, Luthor could have used it to tempt him. 'Look, you're home. Isn't this what you wanted?'. It would have given more drama to the story, Superman has what he wants, the chance to experience home. The public doesn't want him anymore, why shouldn't he do something for himself? He's then faced with the choice, discover who he is or to save the Earth from destruction (Prehaps Krypton could have grown gradually destroying Earth and replacing it).
He alreadt has the Fortress though. What, would you rather Superman chose to live on New Krypton and twiddle his thumbs like a massive spacker?

I think the general plot and narrative of the movie was pretty good. I just hope there's a cut that doesn't include movie kid.
 
V said:
The idea (so we were told) was Superman looking for his place in the World - he left to find out who he really is and where he came from. And when he came back the World has moved on without him, they don't want/need him anymore. His trip to Krypton ultimately ends in failure and he's lost what he used to have.
I hoped I wasn't the only one who noticed that never occured.
 
bosef982 said:
Where was all the food on krypton when it was shown back in the day? He has alien technology. There are probably a variety of means available to him via that technology to create food, landscape, etc.

We didn't see it, but Krypton wasn't ONLY a huge mass of granite (and Kryptonite). They had some kind of habitat system, oh and do they even need to eat to survive? Would their food be digestable to human beings. I can tell you like this film but Superman could have thrown New Krypton into this plot hole!

Your theory is like saying Lex could have turned Kitty into a jumbo jet by sticking a crystal in her. It was a cheap plot device in my opinion, much like Smallville's Kryptonite gives humans special powers.
 
the land mass was growing.... we'll never know what kind of life or plant life could have grown on it, seeing how its was still in its evolution state... but it would have been cool to see some kind of freak thing attack superman

but i kinda like the idea of who ever said Lex should say "you wanted home well here it is..." "i sent you 5 years away when i could have just built this earlier and let you try to make this your home"
 
V said:
We didn't see it, but Krypton wasn't ONLY a huge mass of granite (and Kryptonite). They had some kind of habitat system, oh and do they even need to eat to survive? Would their food be digestable to human beings. I can tell you like this film but Superman could have thrown New Krypton into this plot hole!

Your theory is like saying Lex could have turned Kitty into a jumbo jet by sticking a crystal in her. It was a cheap plot device in my opinion, much like Smallville's Kryptonite gives humans special powers.


Well then, don't see the movie again, don't see the sequel, and get off these boards if its so horrible to you. You weren't looking for an answer, you were looking for a argument. You're question was baited and rhetorical and only served to open up a discussion whereby you thought you could make yourself look too cool for this film and for yourself.

You failed. Move on.
 
Bosef i got your back bro.... we need to band up and remove these haters....
 
bosef982 said:
Well then, don't see the movie again, don't see the sequel, and get off these boards if its so horrible to you. You weren't looking for an answer, you were looking for a argument. You're question was baited and rhetorical and only served to open up a discussion whereby you thought you could make yourself look too cool for this film and for yourself.

You failed. Move on.

Ah here we have a self righteous, arrogant person who refuses to accept anything other than Superman was an emotional journey of wonder and unimaginable depth rather than a Donner homage.

Well I can't recall saying anything was horrible? So just because I didn't like the average movie I should leave and never come back? Maybe if you don't like opinions that don't praise this movie (blindly) then you should leave?

Don't see where I tried to make myself too cool? I have nothing to prove to somebody going around blindly brown nosing like you, my friend. I simply want to engage in debates with people who can actually see different points of view rather than their own single minded agenda.

Also liked how you tried to leap into insults without trying you counter my point.

: o

Also love the irony about me looking for an argument when it was you who started one.
 
Lightning54SC said:
Bosef i got your back bro.... we need to band up and remove these haters....
Actually....instead of likers trying to remove haters, and haters trying to remove likers.....you should learn to discuss (not argue), debate (not attack), and learn to live with each other.
 
C. Lee said:
Actually....instead of likers trying to remove haters, and haters trying to remove likers.....you should learn to discuss (not argue), debate (not attack), and learn to live with each other.

Careful, C.Lee.

Rationality and common sense appears to be a rare trait on this particular board.
 
bosef982 said:
You failed. Move on.

What did he fail at? He made a point and you didn't like it.

Delude yourself some more that the film was great. I refuse to believe that anyone who was hyped for the film and was a Supes fan wasn't dissapointed on some level. The lovers put blinders on for all the films faults.
 
V said:
Ah here we have a self righteous, arrogant person who refuses to accept anything other than Superman was an emotional journey of wonder and unimaginable depth rather than a Donner homage.

Well I can't recall saying anything was horrible? So just because I didn't like the average movie I should leave and never come back? Maybe if you don't like opinions that don't praise this movie (blindly) then you should leave?

Don't see where I tried to make myself too cool? I have nothing to prove to somebody going around blindly brown nosing like you, my friend. I simply want to engage in debates with people who can actually see different points of view rather than their own single minded agenda.

Also liked how you tried to leap into insults without trying you counter my point.

: o

Counter your post? I gave you a counter, you discounted it. And yes, SR was an homage to S:TM, I've never denied that anywhere -- so way to read in. It's just that its a much classier and sleeker S:TM, which actually attempts to create drama and conflict, whlie layering in some very radical and new dynamics.

Moving on to my supposed non-countering of your point:

It amounts to this. You're idea's better: Luthor should've invited Superman to live on New Krypton, despite him already having a Fortresss that resemebles Kryptonian in a beautiful monument.

So, you're main things was: who's going to pay for that land and how are they going to eat and, what else, lemme check....oh, and Jason was a ploy considering that in the movie that has not yet been made there may be, may be, Kryptonian survivors coming.

So, who would buy a bunch of HI-TECH land? Remember, Kryptonian land is almost living technology. It's technology and land mixed. So, when New Krypton would've FINISHED growing, we don't have a clue what would've come out. For all we know, the rocky protrusions we saw would have cracked and shed to create the glimmering crystal that we know since crystals do orignally start as ugly rock and some rocks are actually cracked open to finds gems. So, we know first and foresmot, an obvoius point nearly everyone missed, was that New Krypton was in its infancy, not even grown to full capacity -- it would've probably grown into a huge contininent of crystals just like the Fortress, with integrated technology and fortressed that could be created as Luthor continued to discover more about the crystals.

Who would buy into that? Terrorists, for one. Warlords, two, Displaced peoples, three. To have access to those resources, an unlimited about of power, technology, and knowledge, would be priceless. And as New Krypton reached maturity, that would've been seen.

So, where's the food? Well, where was the food on Earth after the Big Bang happened? It takes time.

So, we've established with logic who would buy. We've established that New Krypton was in its infant stages. And, let us also describe, that New Krypton wouldve been a new world order. Also, krytpo-rock is harmless to humans for now, but Luthor may have not seen the long-term effects, as he doesn't in the comics when he gets cancer. But that's good -- that's the fallcy of villanious arrogance.

Jason is a ploy? Useless. Well, think of it this way, Kryptonian survivors come back and Jason wants to go with them and not stay on Earth? Is he useless then, or have we introduced yet another dramatic strain that is hard for Superman to deal with? Or, Jason's biology continues to reject his hybrid nature and this group of Kryptonians can save him but have to take him with them. Is he useless then? That these Kryptonians, hope that Superman is not alone, is going to leave him alone on his planet, taking that hope with them, by taking away his son?

So there's my refutations.
 
matthooper said:
What did he fail at? He made a point and you didn't like it.

Delude yourself some more that the film was great. I refuse to believe that anyone who was hyped for the film and was a Supes fan wasn't dissapointed on some level. The lovers put blinders on for all the films faults.

Name the faults?
 

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