A Case For Creation

[Corinthian™]

I'd like a little Kraft Hickory Smoke Sauce on those ribs, please.

that was horribly funny. I like you

 

[Addendum]

Sauce doesn't make barbeque.

 

[jaguarr]

Sauce doesn't make barbeque.

True. It's all in the wood and the slow cooking.

(That was a great joke, btw, celldog. )

jag

 

[Addendum]

True. It's all in the wood and the slow cooking.

(That was a great joke, btw, celldog. )

jag

Slow cooking with indirect heat.

And by slow, 200 degrees for about 25 hours.

The rub is also key

 

[celldog]

The "missing link" was actually an evolutionary leap foward of several hundred millenia, from ape-man to man, that cannot be explained away easily. Did the Infinite Intelligence that created the Universe intervene? Was it super-technological aliens who re-created us in their image? Until we build a time machine, we'll never know for certain.

Not so my friend. Where did you get that?

What you describe is called "Punctuated Equalibrium". In other words a species does not rise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and fully formed. The problems with this are :

a. lack of vertical transitional forms in the fossil record. Thus it is aclassical argument from silence.

b. This convoluted concept flies in the face of genetics. For instance, the genetic apparatus of a lizard is 100 percent devoted to producing another lizard. The idea that this extremely complex, finely, tuned, highly integrated, amazingly stable genetic apparatus involving hundreds of thousands of interdependent genes could be drastically altered and rapidly reintegrated in such a way that thw new organism not only survives but actually is an improvement over the preceding form is contrary to what we know about the apparatus and how it functions. You cannot get birds from reptiles or men from apes.

 

[jaguarr]

Slow cooking with indirect heat.

And by slow, 200 degrees for about 25 hours.

The rub is also key

Werd. They're cooking that witch all wrong in that pic.

jag

 

[Bill]

That's completely meaningless, and here's why - people adopt certain parts of certain beliefs and call it their own ALL the time. It is completely plausible for someone to come along and adopt ID as a non-religious explanation for how they personally feel about the nature of the universe. One does NOT have to believe in a 'Christian God' to also believe in ID, even IF it was originally conceptualized BY Christians.

To make an analogy, that'd be like saying that all cars are Fords because the first car was a Ford (I'm not sure what the first car was, but supposing that a Ford was indeed the first car built), or that would be like saying anyone who believes in any aspect of evolution is a follower of Darwin.

You can't generalize to that extent.

It's not a generalization, it's the truth. What you or others may think of ID is irrelevent. It was invented for the sole purpose of getting religion into schools. It is a religious effort by the religious for the religious. It's own proponents know how bankrupt of science it is.

And your analogy is poorly executed and wrong.

 

[celldog]

it doesn't point towards intelligence


That's a pretty simple statement. How does it not point in that direction?



It never has, well, maybe about 500 years ago, but not now.

So technology was better 500 years ago?


The advance of out technology has proven that the evolution theory is the number one theory. Just look at Bacteria. They are so complex but we are begining to understand how they work and they surely evolve by the hour. They change and change and change. But you also have to consider that in order for a Bacteria to change so dramatically it's Irrecognizable will take MILLIONS OF YEARS! And you won't see it.




But you just proved my point. Even though bacterial cells are incredibly smal .....each is in effect a micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and unparalleled!

You don't this item in the photo happened by chance do you? Why? Too complex to be mere happen stance. You look at it and it screams out "intelligent" creator. The bacteria is more complex than that circuit.


Intelligent design is the "scientific" way of drilling creationism into our lives.

And seriously, Only in America you see this kind of backwards thinking

That's what makes this country so great!

 

[lazur]

It's not a generalization, it's the truth. What you or others may think of ID is irrelevent. It was invented for the sole purpose of getting religion into schools. It is a religious effort by the religious for the religious. It's own proponents know how bankrupt of science it is.

And your analogy is poorly executed and wrong.

Negative. Entire religious movements have been created out of gathering parts of others.

My analogies are spot on. You're trying to explain ID away as a purely Christian movement. It's not. It may have STARTED OUT that way, but it hasn't stayed that way any more than evolution has stayed nicely packaged under Darwin's theories.

But hey, believe what you want. There's nothing about that site to indicate a Christian belief system. And it is THAT site and its conclusions on which this particular discussion is based.

 

[Bill]

Not so my friend. Where did you get that?

What you describe is called "Punctuated Equalibrium". In other words a species does not rise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and fully formed. The problems with this are :

a. lack of vertical transitional forms in the fossil record. Thus it is aclassical argument from silence.

b. This convoluted concept flies in the face of genetics. For instance, the genetic apparatus of a lizard is 100 percent devoted to producing another lizard. The idea that this extremely complex, finely, tuned, highly integrated, amazingly stable genetic apparatus involving hundreds of thousands of interdependent genes could be drastically altered and rapidly reintegrated in such a way that thw new organism not only survives but actually is an improvement over the preceding form is contrary to what we know about the apparatus and how it functions. You cannot get birds from reptiles or men from apes.

I suspect that your science education was gleaned from Church pamphlets and religious tracts. You certainly didn't poke your head into a science book.

Here, so at least you can understand PE better.

Here and here are some lernin' for the second scientifically-illiterate half of your post. You don't understand enough about Evolution to comment on it. Why not ask science about science?

 

[celldog]

Sauce doesn't make barbeque.

I agree. The meat must have a smoked flavor. The sauce only sets it off.

And do not use a Gas Grill!!! CHARCOAL ONLY!!!

 

[Bill]

Negative. Entire religious movements have been created out of gathering parts of others.

My analogies are spot on. You're trying to explain ID away as a purely Christian movement. It's not. It may have STARTED OUT that way, but it hasn't stayed that way any more than evolution has stayed nicely packaged under Darwin's theories.

But hey, believe what you want. There's nothing about that site to indicate a Christian belief system. And it is THAT site and its conclusions on which this particular discussion is based.

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

 

[lazur]

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

Intelligent Design is not a 'new' theory. It's just something that's only recently been given a name and definition.

 

[Bill]

Intelligent Design is not a 'new' theory. It's just something that's only recently been given a name and definition.

Unfortunately, it doesn't fit the definition of a theory either.

 

[Addendum]

Intelligent Design is not a 'new' theory. It's just something that's only recently been given a name and definition.

And used to go by the name "Creation Science"

 

[lazur]

Unfortunately, it doesn't fit the definition of a theory either.

In YOUR opinion.

Despite what you may personally believe yourself capable of, you don't have all of the answers as to the origin of humankind and the formation of the universe. None of us do.

That's my last comment on the matter.

 

[Bill]

In YOUR opinion.

Despite what you may personally believe yourself capable of, you don't have all of the answers as to the origin of humankind. None of us do.

That's my last comment on the matter.

No. It really doesn't fit the definition of a theory. And I never said I had all the answers for the origin of mankind, but ID doesn't fit the evidence that we do have.

 

[Abaddon]

this whole religious argument is getting a little stale.

 

[celldog]

I suspect that your science education was gleaned from Church pamphlets and religious tracts. You certainly didn't poke your head into a science book.

It's amazing how threatening this is to you. Such venom. Geez...

Dr. Duane Gish

Dr. Duane Gish is a man who, in addition to his accomplishments as a speaker and writer, is known by many as the foremost creationist debater in the world today. He has logged literally hundreds of thousands of miles in order to bring the truth of creation to adults and children alike. Dr. Gish's travels have taken him to virtually every state in the continental U.S. and into 25 foreign countries, including the Soviet Union.

His book, Dinosaurs: Those Terrible Lizards, was published when there was very little creationist literature available for children. Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record is the book God has used in the lives of many to lay aside, once and for all, the fallacious ape-man theory.

He has held key positions at Berkeley, Cornell University Medical College, and The Upjohn Company, where he collaborated with former Nobel Prize winners in various projects. His interest in the creation/evolution issue grew until, in 1971, he left The Upjohn Company to join the faculty at the newly established (1970) Christian Heritage College and its research division. In 1972, the latter changed its name to the Institute for Creation Research, and Dr. Gish has served as Associate Director and Vice President since that time.

Education
Ph.D., University of California, Berkeley 1953

Honors/Awards/Associations

American Men Of Science
Who's Who in the West
American Chemical Society
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Fellow of the American Institute of Chemists


HENRY MORRIS
Henry M. Morris

Hydraulic Engineering

Ph.D. and M.S. from the University of Minnesota (1950, 1948)

LL.D.

Litt.D.

B.S. with honors in civil engineering from Rice University (1939)

Former faculty member at Rice University (1942-46), University of Minnesota (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern Illinois University (1956-57)

Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970)

Former president of Creation Research Society (1967-1973)

Biographical listings in World Who's Who in Science, Antiquity to Present: Who's Who in America: American Men of Science; Who's Who in Engineering; Who's Who in Science and Engineering; Who's Who in the World; Contemporary Authors; etc.

Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution

Founder and president emeritus of the Institute for Creation Research




Here, so at least you can understand PE better.

Here and here are some lernin' for the second scientifically-illiterate half of your post. You don't understand enough about Evolution to comment on it. Why not ask science about science?

[B]I guess these two guys aren't really scientists..... Interesting how their faith disqualifies them, in your eyes. It's as silly as if liking Barry Manilow disqualifies me from being black. [/B]

 

[jaguarr]

You're black and you like Barry Manilow? That's so....sad.

jag

 

[celldog]

Ever hear of "Nebraska Man"??? LOL

 

[jaguarr]

Nebraska Man likes Barry Manilow, too?

jag

 

[celldog]

You're black and you like Barry Manilow? That's so....sad.

jag

"Her name was Lola. She was a show girl!!"

 

[jaguarr]

"Her name was Lola. She was a show girl!!"

We may need to send you in for deprogramming.

jag

 

[celldog]

Nebraska Man likes Barry Manilow, too?

jag

If he ever existed, he might have!