Justice League A Defense of Warners

[Micromind]

Having Snyder direct BvS and JL back to back after MOS was inexcusable.

The main problem here is not which director was chosen for JL, the problem is that JL shouldn't have been green-lit without first making some more solo movies.

 

[STARMAN]

The problem is turning 3 of DCEU's first 5 films over to Snyder.

The problem stems well before JL. That is the end result of their shortsightedness. It began with Snyder, especially his BvS.

 

[Patchwork Man]

The problem is turning 3 of DCEU's first 5 films over to Snyder.

The problem stems well before JL. That is the end result of their shortsightedness. It began with Snyder, especially his BvS.

No, it began with Goyer and Nolan. That is, if you want to be technical.

 

[MbJ]

Having Snyder direct BvS and JL back to back after MOS was inexcusable.

I said in the other thread but it's the height of arrogance. After MOS turned out to be hugely divisive they should have waited to see how BVS was actually received before they committed to having the same writer-director team tackle Justice League.

Assuming everyone was gonna love Batman v. Superman and be begging for a sequel right away is so shortsighted it's not even funny.

 

[dougal]

It is funny. I made several post saying the same thing. He was fired. You know that because he was not even allowed to see the final cut. They fired him.

All my posts that I have made on these forums, for the most part, were deleted. I have no idea why they disappeared but assume mods thought it was a troll post.

Bingo, so he was fired.

 

[MbJ]

Was there anyone who seriously believed Zack left on his own terms?

 

[The Batman]

The main problem here is not which director was chosen for JL

Yeah, it was.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

I did in the beginning

 

[Flint Marko]

Was there anyone who seriously believed Zack left on his own terms?

I pretty much did, honestly. I felt it was similar to a slow, messy divorce where neither party is happy but neither wants to be the bad guy and make the first move, until the tragedy with his daughter forced his hand.

It honestly weirds me out that they fired him when they did. I still don't understand it given that WB has been in the Zack Snyder business for over a decade. They've known what type of film-maker he is, they've known that he makes divisive movies, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together knew that well before BvS premiered.

All that tells me is that the "Snyder cut" as it exists must have tested very, very poorly.

 

[dougal]

Was there anyone who seriously believed Zack left on his own terms?

Yes, most people! I got tons of flack for even suggesting it and the mods even deleted some of my posts. And it was so obvious.

Warner spent a ton trying to fix it but I think someone must have just taken them for a ride because the reshoots were so bad they were comical. That movie was just terrible and they should just reboot everything starting with a new Superman movie.

 

[obredaan]

Was there anyone who seriously believed Zack left on his own terms?

At first, I thought maybe but once it got out that Whedon's reshoots were extensive than it became rather obvious that Warner moved Snyder out in order to shift directions. It was also a good indicator that something was up considering Whedon is the polar opposite of Snyder. It was an odd pairing, to say the least.

 

[MbJ]

It honestly weirds me out that they fired him when they did. I still don't understand it given that WB has been in the Zack Snyder business for over a decade. They've known what type of film-maker he is, they've known that he makes divisive movies, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together knew that well before BvS premiered.

Probably there was nothing as high profile a Hindenburg as BVS. He's had flops or movies that were poorly reviewed, but this was a misfire on such a level that it may have killed an entire cinematic universe in the cradle.

 

[BH/HHH]

As I said in the main thread

WBs should never have done what they did with Justice League. They panicked and what we got was a Frankenstein product with some awful CGI but also some great stuff too (but that stuff could have been used in another movie).

I think WBs choices since Man of Steel are why we are where we are now. Here’s 3 options of what they should have done.

1) After been disappointed with the box office and mixed response to Man of Steel they should have brought someone else in to helm the sequel to MOS.

2) After BvS failing to meet expectations they should have delayed production on Justice League and got in a new team of creatives to helm JL.

3) After sticking with Snyder they should have let him see his Justice League film through and moved on post JL.

Any 3 of those options would have been better for the DCEU in the long run. The panicky road they took was all wrong and now they just have a lot more people pissed at them.

 

[Flint Marko]

As I said in the main thread

I agree with 1&2, number 1 in particular, but I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on the third.

There's already so many people hyping up the Snyder cut based on snippets of (admittedly cool and promising) deleted footage, but what I keep coming back to is the simple fact that you don't pay truckloads of money to fix something that isn't broken. I look at the deleted scenes and go, "wow, this feels more tonally consistent and satisfying than anything in the final film", but I don't see why they'd scrap huge portions of a mostly-finished movie to spend millions hastily cobbling together reshoots (and one of the main actors upper lip!) if there was any chance they didn't need to.

I'm open to discussing this because my mind isn't made up, but I think we'll never really know.

 

[FunkMiller]

As I said in the main thread

Agree with all of that

 

[_Superman_]

I agree with 1&2, number 1 in particular, but I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on the third.

There's already so many people hyping up the Snyder cut based on snippets of (admittedly cool and promising) deleted footage, but what I keep coming back to is the simple fact that you don't pay truckloads of money to fix something that isn't broken. I look at the deleted scenes and go, "wow, this feels more tonally consistent and satisfying than anything in the final film", but I don't see why they'd scrap huge portions of a mostly-finished movie to spend millions hastily cobbling together reshoots (and one of the main actors upper lip!) if there was any chance they didn't need to.

I'm open to discussing this because my mind isn't made up, but I think we'll never really know.

Honestly I think they reshot most of the movie and 95% of the Superman stuff because it didn't fit the new tone of the movie. Rumors had Snyder's movie feeling more like MOS or a lighter version of that movie and the WB wanted something lighter so they went in another direction and in doing so we got the end result.

 

[Reel-Man]

Honestly **** Warner Bros. Not enough blame is being thrown at them for starting this mess in the first place. That's all i have to say and i'll leave it at that.

 

[Micromind]

People are quick to bring up Snyder's track record but what about WB's track record when it comes to DC movies ?

They messed with Suicide Squad in the editing room, they messed with Batman V Superman by cutting it down in the editing room and did the same thing again with Justice League.

 

[Reel-Man]

People are quick to bring up Snyder's track record but what about WB's track record when it comes to DC movies ?

They messed with Suicide Squad in the editing room, they messed with Batman V Superman by cutting it down in the editing room and did the same thing again with Justice League.

Not only that but how many good directors (with acclaim) left DC projects? WB is definitely one of the most intrusive studios in terms of production.

 

[Micromind]

Hell, I remember Martin Campbell complaining about "too many cooks" while making Green Lantern movie (if I remember that correctly..)

 

[MbJ]

Oh I absolutely blame Warner. Like I've said several times, what they should have done after BVS was delay Justice League and regroup down the line with a new writer and director, even if it caused them to take a financial hit at the time.

Snyder's work has been a problem, but they're the people who put him on huge films 3 times even when it became obvious his take was not what they wanted.

 

[_Superman_]

Oh I absolutely blame Warner. Like I've said several times, what they should have done after BVS was delay Justice League and regroup down the line with a new writer and director, even if it caused them to take a financial hit at the time.

Snyder's work has been a problem, but they're the people who put him on huge films 3 times even when it became obvious his take was not what they wanted.

I agree but once they picked Snyder for JL and let him film and edit the movie where all that was left for them to do was finish up the FX they should've just left him alone and ride out the storm and then change direction with the next group of movies after Aquaman. However that wasn't the case and we get the mess we're in right now and it gets worse when you get more and more leaks coming out showing how good this movie could've been even though the tone was more serious.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I agree with 1&2, number 1 in particular, but I'm not sure I'm entirely sold on the third.

There's already so many people hyping up the Snyder cut based on snippets of (admittedly cool and promising) deleted footage, but what I keep coming back to is the simple fact that you don't pay truckloads of money to fix something that isn't broken. I look at the deleted scenes and go, "wow, this feels more tonally consistent and satisfying than anything in the final film", but I don't see why they'd scrap huge portions of a mostly-finished movie to spend millions hastily cobbling together reshoots (and one of the main actors upper lip!) if there was any chance they didn't need to.

I'm open to discussing this because my mind isn't made up, but I think we'll never really know.

Honestly it wouldn’t surprise if some scenes were re-shot/added to just add in the actors smiling. A big criticism of BvS was no one smiling, then we see how WB have reacted to such criticisms previously. Then we see the Aquaman-Bruce
Wayne scene. The part that looks the worst and is the most obvious re-shot part, is Aquaman smiling at the camera.

I think a lot was also re-shot to fit the lighting and tone of the new ‘jokey’ and ‘fun’ version they though they had.

If they had released Snyder’s cut it would have been divisive, as all of his movies are (and I say that as a fan), but a mixed response would have been better than the overly negative one we got from the released movie imo.

I really do hope we get the Snyder cut one day just to put half of these arguments to bed.

 

[Iceman]

I think you have to blame the studio overall for everything. The only other people who have any influence on what happens are people the studio choose to employ.

 

[Micromind]

Was Whedon's smiling Supes really needed ?

The first pic is from deleted Snyder scene and the second one is from movie with Whedon's smiling Supes (complete with CGI mustache removal).

I know they say that - "A smile is worth a thousand .. (dollars ?)"

But really ? When it costs a millions of dollars worth of reshoots ?