Justice League A Defense of Warners

First hint there was a problem? WB sucking up to critics by bringing them to the set.
Second hint? Snyder leaving
Third hint? No kick a-- 3rd trailer like WW
Final hint? 2 hour runtime

I say hints 2-4 where the signs there was a problem. However the reason why we didn't that kind of 3rd trailer was because by that time they were reshooting 50-60% of the movie and the whole direction changed.
 
The first red flag was BvS.

Everything else fell like dominoes.
 
Agree. The problems didn't start with the Justice League's behind the scenes drama.
 
The first red flag was BvS.

Everything else fell like dominoes.

See I can't really say that because I loved that movie and thought it was a well made movie. Although I do think that movie came too soon and thought they should've let Snyder go a head with his plans for MOS2 that would've dealt with some of the issues people had with MOS as well as lead into SvB.
 
Most of us realized JL was going to be bad after the news of 2 hour runtime. We didn't expect CGI to be that bad though, I was genuinely shocked how bad it was, especially what they did to Cavill's face.

this
 
https://***********/ImperiousLex/status/965970046785806337
 
At this point, Warner Bros doesn't even deserve an attempt to defend themselves because they screwed over EVERYONE with their treatment of BvS and JL.

It's going to be a long time, maybe even a decade, before the DC brand is restored to a position where it isn't treated as the laughing stock of the film community and that's assuming if Warner Bros actually decides to do something different and not get involved and sabotage their own films.
 
At this point, Warner Bros doesn't even deserve an attempt to defend themselves because they screwed over EVERYONE with their treatment of BvS and JL.

It's going to be a long time, maybe even a decade, before the DC brand is restored to a position where it isn't treated as the laughing stock of the film community and that's assuming if Warner Bros actually decides to do something different and not get involved and sabotage their own films.

And if they decide to start now rather than wait. Love your sig by the way.
 
It appears that other than the obvious ones ( AQ, Ww2, shazam ) the rest are probably headed to limbo. We shall see.
 
It appears that other than the obvious ones ( AQ, Ww2, shazam ) the rest are probably headed to limbo. We shall see.

Based on what, exactly?

People have said this about almost every project in development. SUICIDE SQUAD was never going to get made...and then it got made. SHAZAM was never going to be made. Then it got made.

You had people who thought AQUAMAN was never going to be made. THE FLASH was never going to happen. Now there are directors attached again, and its ramping up. LOBO was never going to get made...they're looking for a director.
 
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Based on what, exactly?

Common sense.

Justice-League-Box-Office-Crash.jpg
 
Common sense.

Justice-League-Box-Office-Crash.jpg

This is essentially the mentality of DCEU needs to be rebooted because of one abysmal failure despite their numerous successes; and despite what some say and critic opinion the 4 previous films were successful
 
This is essentially the mentality of DCEU needs to be rebooted because of one abysmal failure despite their numerous successes; and despite what some say and critic opinion the 4 previous films were successful

We all know they weren't, but if you're still claiming they were successful simply because they didn't lose money then you've really lowered the bar for what "successful" means.
 
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This is essentially the mentality of DCEU needs to be rebooted because of one abysmal failure despite their numerous successes ; and despite what some say and critic opinion the 4 previous films were successful

See, people keep pretending that Justice League's failure was somehow an isolated incident that had nothing to do with the negative reputation the franchise had garnered over the past few years, and that just seems like willing blindness at a certain point.

The Transformers franchise was another series that made a bunch of money initially despite continuing terrible reviews, and it eventually ran out of steam with the Last Knight, which badly underperformed because people were done given the franchise another chance. Actually, it arguably happened sooner with Age of Extinction, which only made a bunch of cash because the Chinese market was crazy horny about it.

I'm not even in favor of a reboot, but at a certain point all the pretending that this franchise was doing perfectly fine until Justice League seems like an echo chamber.
 
When the first live action film about a group, comprised of some of our pop culture's biggest heroes, fails to make the buzz and profit that second tier group's and characters have done with their solo films then the production company involved do not have a right to defend themselves in that regards.
 
This is essentially the mentality of DCEU needs to be rebooted because of one abysmal failure despite their numerous successes; and despite what some say and critic opinion the 4 previous films were successful

JL is supposed to be the culmination of the previous movies' success, building on that success (atleast boxoffice wise) to reach and surpass the coveted billion dollars mark, instead the film imploded and flopped on an epic scale.
I personally don't think they should reboot and instead should focus on making Shazam, AM and WW2 the best movies they can be inorder re-establish some faith into the franchise but I totally understand the 'need to reboot' mentality.
 
We all know they weren't, but if you're still claiming they were successful simply because they didn't lose money then you've really lowered the bar for what "successful" means.

Case in point I present Exhibit A
 
WB have shot themselves in the foot here.
Now I have enjoyed all of the DECU films to varying degrees, but let's be honest here, WB have rushed the DCEU big time.

Marvel took the long road and are about to deliver their first $2billion dollar earning film by doing so (IW).

WB - Get some talented writers and talented directors.

Get rid of Kevin Tsujihara, because that guy is a useless CEO
finally get someone on-board who loves and will protect the legacy of these characters to oversee any future connected universe.
 
Ask yourself this, if they announced tomorrow a JL 2, with the same director (s), the same composer, same folks in charge at the top, do you think it would be a success?

I'll even wager that if they changed everything up but the actors it still wouldn't be a huge hit, even if it were good because of the previous film(s). Right or wrong The public would stay away from it for the most part. JL proved that

That's why I think most of the films ( again, other than the obvious ones) are headed to limbo.

Sure, they could plow ahead, spend hundreds of millions on a sequel that may or may not be a hit.
I just don't think they will risk it. It's sad to, all they had to do was make it halfway good, and we would now be discussing JL 2.

They didn't care about JL and it showed. If they don't care then why should we?
 
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They didn't care about a movie they:

A. Replaced the original director on
B. Spent $30 million to do reshoots on

Sure.
 
They didn't care about a movie they:

A. Replaced the original director on
B. Spent $30 million to do reshoots on

Sure.

The frankenstein movie they chopped into bits and shoved into theaters, yes.

https://www.thewrap.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-batman-v-superman-wonder-woman/

One executive told TheWrap Tsujihara and Emmerich “wanted to preserve their bonuses they would be paid before the merger,” and were worried that “if they pushed the movie, then their bonuses would have been pushed to the following year and they might not still be at the studio.”
 
All I care for is that these bombs paid for the other DC films being made now.
 
It seems that any time a movie fails to live up to expectations, the instinctual response is to blame the studio for meddling. Here, we know that Warners did meddle with Justice League. But I submit, that it was not entirely a bad thing.

One complaint we keep hearing is the run-time mandate. But is it truly indefensible? Watchmen, MOS, BvS, they all have one thing in common: there are portions where they drag. Snyder tends to film redundant, often self-indulgent, but ultimately pointless scenes (see, BvS). Age of Ultron received similar critiques. I can't really blame Warners for wanting to reign in a director who has a tendency to self-indulge and create overly long films. Further, Just because something is longer, doesn't make it better. In fact, IMO, most extended cuts are worse than the original. Very often, scenes are cut for a reason.

The fact that Warners mandated edits is not necessarily what destroyed this movie. In fact, its very possible that it made it less worse. After all, were BvS and MOS so stellar that any of us really believe that there is just a load of brilliant Snyder directed material left on the cutting room floor? I am skeptical of that proposition. I dare say that most of which was cut is probably just typical Snyder. Juvenile and shallow scenes, in the guise of "maturity" because they are dark and include dialogue that sounds like a 14 year old discussing philosophy sprinkled with the occasional adolescent joke about a bodily fluid.

Further, I'm not even convinced that Warners was wrong in checking Whedon a bit. We now know thanks to Holt McCallany's press that the Whedon penned opening was designed to be comedic, and would've been but for edits by Warners. Look, no one has said more than I that these movies need to lighten up and take themselves less seriously. But its a bit of an over-correction to start a crossover epic with a slapstick scene. Imagine if Avengers opened with Loki's attack on SHIELD, but the scene was played for laughs. Its not a pretty mental picture. If these were type of notes that Warners was offering Whedon, and these are the edits Warners made, then Warners made the right call.

Now I'm not saying Warners handled this perfectly. Warners ought to have fired Snyder following BvS and bumped back production on JL. There was plenty of time to pull the brakes. Principle filming had not yet begun. But they didn't. That was their mistake.

But I'm not so sure that their edits were. The notion that the edits hurt the film is a conclusion that a lot of fans are jumping to that is supported by virtually no evidence, and the bits of anecdotal evidence that we have, combined with Zack Snyder's track record, indicates to me that Warners probably wasn't wrong in making edits. In fact, the edits seem to be Warners trying to polish a turd and save this ship from sinking entirely.

I guess what I am getting at is, be careful what you wish for in the form of a Snyder cut. If the fundamental building blocks of the film are flawed, chances are a director's cut will be as well.

2 years later, plenty of info revealed, a massive online fan campain, donations, etc

People sure talk a lot. This did not age well. at all.
 

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