Homecoming Action is this movies biggest flaw?

[Alana´s Gun]

I think the overall cheap quality of filmmaking was its biggest flaw. This is definitely a movie I wouldn't rewatch. The lack of drama and engaging storytelling.

I don't know if I agree with the strength of your opinion but I certainly do agree that there wasn't much drama or storytelling going on in most of the film.
I know everyone is Gaga over the #33 scene and even I ( a hardass) felt that scene but other than that I thought the movie rested on being Fun rather than engaging.

I totally get why other people are very engaged, because it's Spider-Man and they are passionate about the character but ok it's own merits, is Spider-Man had come to existence for the first time in Homecoming I would be passive about him. Didn't hate it by any means but I think they could have been a little more daring with the story instead of playing it so safe.

 

[fancyarcher]

Hmm, I thought the action was fine. The CGI aerobatics or whatever actually fit Spidey. I agree the action at point was maybe a bit chaotic and shaky-camish, but it could have been worse.

Watts is clearly not experienced enough with action though, and it shows. Hopefully the sequel has some impressive set-piece.

 

[LaughterLives]

"I don't know if I agree with the strength of your opinion but I certainly do agree that there wasn't much drama or storytelling going on in most of the film.
I know everyone is Gaga over the #33 scene and even I ( a hardass) felt that scene but other than that I thought the movie rested on being Fun rather than engaging."

I totally get why other people are very engaged, because it's Spider-Man and they are passionate about the character but ok it's own merits, is Spider-Man had come to existence for the first time in Homecoming I would be passive about him. Didn't hate it by any means but I think they could have been a little more daring with the story instead of playing it so safe"

hahaha! I was only stating my opinion. It doesn't have to have strength cuz how I felt about the film is not an argument or up for debate. Its simply my opinion. We can discuss my feelings about the film if you like but understand that it'd be a discussion and not an argument.

It turned out to be mostly a character piece and a lackluster one at that. I feel like the film just tried to focus on getting the essence of Peter Parker right and didn't care to build an interesting movie around him. Ya they made the movie quite funny and ya there were little things that i thought were cool as a fan but watching people talk while waiting for something breathtaking to happen is actually quite boring. All the previous Spider-man films had some stunning scenes, whether they were good films is up for debate but at least they were visually pretty astonishing. Watching this, I couldn't wait for it to end. This would've been impressive for a TV Film.

What was scene 33?

 

[Yondu's Arrow]

I don't think the action was generic or bad. If anything, Spidey is sloppy bc he's new and without his Stark-made costume during battles. That's what it came off to me. Stylized, but it's still intentionally sloppy and I liked that. Like him webbing the crazy gun in panic. Even Vulture was a bit clunk bc his back-engineered tech is only meant to steal, not fight. Yet here he is using it as a weapon.

So I liked it, basically. I disagree with people. It was interesting watching him learn the webbing and try his best to fight.

 

[TeeKay]

Nope. It was adequate. I still enjoyed it. Although I pictured ariel fights with Vulture in the city. I wasn't dissapointed. I blame Raimi for setting the standard for Spiderman action.

 

[seriesofdreams]

No, at all. I guess the only thing you could count would the end fight sequence but that was more of personal taste SFX and what they could have done to improved on for the scene. Otherwise, the film has plenty of webslinging, running, fighting, acrobatics, wallcrawling, churro-eating and anything else you could ask for in a Spider-Man film.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

What was scene 33?

It's referring to the scene in the movie where Peter is stuck underneath that giant hunk of metal and rubble. That scene is an homage to the scene in ASM issue #33 where Peter is stuck under a large piece of metal. If you're not familiar, it's one of the most, if not the most notable panels in all of Spider-Man comics.

 

[hafizbat]

Which is weird, because CIVIL WAR depicted a Peter Parker who had more or less mastered his powers, especially when it came to combat.

Lol, not even close...

 

[Resistance61513]

I personally felt that the action in this film was a missed opportunity.

All things considered, I expected more. I know Watts isn't experienced, per say, when it comes to action. I'm fine with him learning the ropes and hopefully coming back with something memorable in the next installment.

That being said, it's a shame Vulture wasn't fully utilized to his potential. While watching the movie opening night, I couldn't help but yearn for the theoretical Spider-Man 4. Judging from the leaked storyboards, Raimi had something epic planned for Vulture. Something that felt very comic book esque/ripped from the pages of Spider-Man installments like the comics and animated shows.

Something that I hope Watts does in the future is make New York a "character" in his films. That's something Raimi mastered beautifully. I feel in Raimi's universe, Spider-Man and Vulture would be duking it out 70-100 stories above street level. They would crash into office buildings, blow through windows, Vulture would slice gargoyles with his razor wings (as seen in the story boards) Spidey would desperately scramble to stop the debris from crushing people below, the helicopter set piece looked incredible as well.

I could see that going from bad to worse. Helicopter is falling after Vulture ruins it, Spidey webbing it, trying to stop it and then the pilot or something flies out and it's just the old Parker luck...really testing his limits. It would be exhilarating in Raimi's but harrowing in Homecoming since he isn't experienced. That's something that would have been cool to play upon.

Also, they could have taken a page out of the animated series. When Hobgoblin causes Spidey to jump off his glider, he tried shooting a web to swing to safety but was out of cartridges. It kind of bums me out that this hasn't been fully realized in the movies to an extent. Sure you have broken web shooters, missing web shooters, a part where he tries to save someone and runs out but...it'd just be so cool to see the tide of battle turn in an instant.

Spidey running around, shooting webs, being a little cocky and then he runs out in the midst of the fight and have to improvise. That's something I loved in the comics. Spidey was always using his smarts to take down his opponents. I hope they show that aspect in future films because, frankly, I don't feel like it's been fully implemented just yet. The surface has only been scratched.

 

[Arach Knight]

Uh, not quite? He had a few fumbles throughout that scene, in the same consistent manner as in this movie.

In Civil War, Peter...

1) Beat Bucky AND Falcon in a 2 v 1 fight

2) Went toe-to-toe with Cap without being overwhelmed

3) Came up with, and implemented the strategy to defeat Ant-Man

Peter didn't come away from the battle unscathed, which is to be expected, but he certainly carried his own weight out in the field. Comparatively, the Homecoming portrayal of Peter was only a step above being a buffoon.

Homecoming Peter...

1) Leapt into a solid ceiling, and neither his fancy suit, nor his spider sense, or even common sense, kept him from literally leaping before he looked.

2) Was intelligent enough on the ferry to realize that he needed to anchor the supports,

Spoiler

but couldn't figure out that Vulture was taking out the supports in the garage.

3)

Spoiler

Was tracked by Vultures men because of the energy signature of the Chitauri tech, but let Ganke/Ned keep the fragment, leaving him at risk of being tracked.

The Peter Parker/Spider-Man portrayed in Homecoming was unequivocally inconsistent with the Peter seen in Civil War. Worse yet, Homecoming Peter was largely incompetent to a degree that cannot be justified by mere inexperience. Peter had been Spider-Man for nearly a year by the start of Homecoming.

 

[PeterBenParker]

In Civil War, Peter...

1) Beat Bucky AND Falcon in a 2 v 1 fight

2) Went toe-to-toe with Cap without being overwhelmed

3) Came up with, and implemented the strategy to defeat Ant-Man

Peter didn't come away from the battle unscathed, which is expected, but he certainly carried his own weight out in the field. Comparatively, the Homecoming portrayal of Peter was only a step above being a buffoon.

Homecoming Peter...

1) Leapt into a solid ceiling, and neither his fancy suit, nor his spider sense, or even common sense, kept him from literally leaping before he looked.

2) Was intelligent enough on the ferry to realize that he needed to anchor the supports,

Spoiler

but couldn't figure out that Vulture was taking out the supports in the garage.

3)

Spoiler

Was tracked by Vultures men because of the energy signature of the Chitauri tech, but let Ganke/Ned keep the fragment, leaving him at risk of being tracked.

The Peter Parker/Spider-Man portrayed in Homecoming was unequivocally inconsistent with the Peter seen in Civil War. Worse yet, Homecoming Peter was largely incompetent to a degree that cannot be justified by mere inexperience. Peter had been Spider-Man for nearly a year by the start of Homecoming.

Wonderfully put. As I've said, I really feel like there was a true disconnect between CW and here. Let's not forget the whole fear of heights, either.

 

[Resistance61513]

Wonderfully put. As I've said, I really feel like there was a true disconnect between CW and here. Let's not forget the whole fear of heights, either.

I attributed this as, Spidey has never left Queens. He hasn't gone and fought in New York City yet. Which would make sense...he has yet to seek the thrill of swinging from skyscrapers.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I attributed this as, Spidey has never left Queens. He hasn't gone and fought in New York City yet. Which would make sense...he has yet to seek the thrill of swinging from skyscrapers.

I get your point but it's just a silly approach. I honestly wish they thought of the whole "Building up to the Spider-Man you know and love" shtick before he was introduced in Civil War.

Maybe that way, he could've been Spider-Man for a few weeks and all of this would've been much easier to stomach then telling us (and showing us) he's Spider-Man for eight months yet sucks this badly that he has to depend on sheer luck, Karen and Iron Man bailing him out of situations. Also would've given 'em a chance to explore Ben still being fresh in his mind.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I don't see it as a disconnect. Everyone has good days and off days. Don't forget that in Civil War, Peter also had Cap drop a plane boarding ramp on his head and, when he webbed Cap's hands, Cap just yanked him forward off his feet. Peter was far from perfect in CW and we saw the same flaws here. It's just that here they were played up because this was a comedy-centric movie (fitting for the character of Spider-Man) and Civil War was far more serious. And Spidey was only in CW for, like, five minutes. This was a whole movie about him.

 

[GunBlade]

Bingo.

 

[TheVileOne]

I would've liked to have gotten a bit more out of the Vulture/Spider-Man fights. However, as a new entry point movie for Spider-Man in his early, formative years, I think we got enough.

My main issue though is they wouldn't establish or use the Spider-Sense at all in any of these scenes.

I think they just didn't know how to use the Spider-Sense without it seeming redundant or repetitive as it was portrayed in the previous films. So they pretty much jettisoned it entirely.

 

[Resistance61513]

@TheVileOne - That's exactly what Watts said. He felt the Spider-Sense was portrayed/focused on in the other installments that it just seemed "known" territory.

They could easily rectify this as Peter needs to "hone" his skills. By saying it feels like his senses are dialed up to an 11 could reflect the danger input his body goes through. Similar to how a spider is able to feel change in wind from the hairs on its body, knowing where an attack might be coming from...it could be that Peter doesn't understand it.

The emoting eyes could actually be a result of not knowing how to channel the Spider-Sense ability. Think of it like...distortion around but by closing the eyes it enables him to focus better. He thinks it's helping him but his body is actually trying to warn him of danger. I kind of picture him experiencing the Spider-Sense from the animated series. How crazy the noise and visuals were for it...that's probably what Holland's Spider-Man experiences right now. haha But that was a veteran Spider-Man who knew how to use them.

There's still more "coming of age" left in Holland's iteration.

 

[hafizbat]

In Civil War, Peter...

1) Beat Bucky AND Falcon in a 2 v 1 fight

2) Went toe-to-toe with Cap without being overwhelmed

3) Came up with, and implemented the strategy to defeat Ant-Man

Peter didn't come away from the battle unscathed, which is expected, but he certainly carried his own weight out in the field. Comparatively, the Homecoming portrayal of Peter was only a step above being a buffoon.

Homecoming Peter...

1) Leapt into a solid ceiling, and neither his fancy suit, nor his spider sense, or even common sense, kept him from literally leaping before he looked.

2) Was intelligent enough on the ferry to realize that he needed to anchor the supports,

Spoiler

but couldn't figure out that Vulture was taking out the supports in the garage.

3)

Spoiler

Was tracked by Vultures men because of the energy signature of the Chitauri tech, but let Ganke/Ned keep the fragment, leaving him at risk of being tracked.

The Peter Parker/Spider-Man portrayed in Homecoming was unequivocally inconsistent with the Peter seen in Civil War. Worse yet, Homecoming Peter was largely incompetent to a degree that cannot be justified by mere inexperience. Peter had been Spider-Man for nearly a year by the start of Homecoming.

You're cherrypicking. If you look hard enough you can poke holes in anything. I didn't think SMH painted Peter as incompetent, just inexperienced. You're forgetting things like how he found and removed Tony's tracker on him, cracked the code to the damage control vault, steered an airplane to safety, 98% stopped a ferry from splitting in half, etc etc.

 

[slimshady247]

You're cherrypicking. If you look hard enough you can poke holes in anything. I didn't think SMH painted Peter as incompetent, just inexperienced. You're forgetting things like how he found and removed Tony's tracker on him, cracked the code to the damage control vault, steered an airplane to safety, 98% stopped a ferry from splitting in half, etc etc.

 

[GunBlade]

In Civil War, Peter...

1) Beat Bucky AND Falcon in a 2 v 1 fight

2) Went toe-to-toe with Cap without being overwhelmed

3) Came up with, and implemented the strategy to defeat Ant-Man

Peter didn't come away from the battle unscathed, which is expected, but he certainly carried his own weight out in the field. Comparatively, the Homecoming portrayal of Peter was only a step above being a buffoon.

Homecoming Peter...

1) Leapt into a solid ceiling, and neither his fancy suit, nor his spider sense, or even common sense, kept him from literally leaping before he looked.

2) Was intelligent enough on the ferry to realize that he needed to anchor the supports,

Spoiler

but couldn't figure out that Vulture was taking out the supports in the garage.

3)

Spoiler

Was tracked by Vultures men because of the energy signature of the Chitauri tech, but let Ganke/Ned keep the fragment, leaving him at risk of being tracked.

The Peter Parker/Spider-Man portrayed in Homecoming was unequivocally inconsistent with the Peter seen in Civil War. Worse yet, Homecoming Peter was largely incompetent to a degree that cannot be justified by mere inexperience. Peter had been Spider-Man for nearly a year by the start of Homecoming.

He's 15.

 

[TheVileOne]

@TheVileOne - That's exactly what Watts said. He felt the Spider-Sense was portrayed/focused on in the other installments that it just seemed "known" territory.

They could easily rectify this as Peter needs to "hone" his skills. By saying it feels like his senses are dialed up to an 11 could reflect the danger input his body goes through. Similar to how a spider is able to feel change in wind from the hairs on its body, knowing where an attack might be coming from...it could be that Peter doesn't understand it.

The emoting eyes could actually be a result of not knowing how to channel the Spider-Sense ability. Think of it like...distortion around but by closing the eyes it enables him to focus better. He thinks it's helping him but his body is actually trying to warn him of danger. I kind of picture him experiencing the Spider-Sense from the animated series. How crazy the noise and visuals were for it...that's probably what Holland's Spider-Man experiences right now. haha But that was a veteran Spider-Man who knew how to use them.

There's still more "coming of age" left in Holland's iteration.

I dunno. I kind of have this feeling they aren't going to take it in that direction.

 

[OcStat]

The difference between Civil War and Homecoming is, one is a matter of life and death, the other isn't. "Web these guys up" as opposed to "This guy is trying to kill me."

And Peter may have been Spider-Man for months, but doing the kind of stuff in the Ramones montage.

 

[Arach Knight]

Wonderfully put. As I've said, I really feel like there was a true disconnect between CW and here. Let's not forget the whole fear of heights, either.

My wife and I were bothered the entire time by how little the Homecoming Peter had in common with the Peter from Civil War. Personally, I would have been fine with Peter's on-screen antics in Homecoming had the movie been set before Civil War. The build up to the "Spidey we all know" would have made sense in the aforementioned context.

Unfortunately, Peter's novice behavior in Homecoming seems regressive, and not at all representative of someone who had been a superhero for nearly a year, let alone someone that successfully fought against half of the Avengers. It certainly doesn't fit with the comics either. One of Peter's defining traits has always been that he was so capable despite being so young.

I get that Marvel and Sony had to really push the comedic aspect of Spider-Man. I also realize how much of a challenge that was going to be from the outset since the entire MCU is filled with comedies more so than superhero/action films. Trying to capture the essence of "Spider-Man is the funny man of the Marvel Universe" in a film series where even Ultron is making quips, is a Herculean effort. I'm just not sure that a slap-stick buffoon was the route to go for giving us a funny Spider-Man, especially after having shown the audience a far more dynamic Spider-Man in Civil War.

I get your point but it's just a silly approach. I honestly wish they thought of the whole "Building up to the Spider-Man you know and love" shtick before he was introduced in Civil War.

Maybe that way, he could've been Spider-Man for a few weeks and all of this would've been much easier to stomach then telling us (and showing us) he's Spider-Man for eight months yet sucks this badly that he has to depend on sheer luck, Karen and Iron Man bailing him out of situations. Also would've given 'em a chance to explore Ben still being fresh in his mind.

I share your exact sentiment on the matter. I feel that this film missed quite a few opportunities to tell a far more involved story, and offer audiences a greater degree of insight into Peter's backstory. Homecoming's Peter and May seem largely unbothered by the passing of Uncle Ben, and the lack of reference to his murder, even once, was rather disappointing considering the importance of the event to Peter's life, and role as Spider-Man.

 

[Arach Knight]

[Edit]

 

[Arach Knight]

You're cherrypicking. If you look hard enough you can poke holes in anything. I didn't think SMH painted Peter as incompetent, just inexperienced. You're forgetting things like how he found and removed Tony's tracker on him, cracked the code to the damage control vault, steered an airplane to safety, 98% stopped a ferry from splitting in half, etc etc.

How is it cherrypicking when I literally cited all of Peter's feats during his brief screen-time in Civil War? He gets downed after taking out Ant-Man, so it is not as if there are other references I could draw from.

As for Homecoming, I would hardly call my list "cherrypicking," as I opted to leave out several other ridiculous flubs that Peter made, including the cannon on the Ferry, the Washington Monument, (not to mention the inconsistent display of Peter's superhuman strength), and his fight against the Shocker (Herman).

I have no need to cherrypick anything because Peter was shown to be more of a danger than a help for the first two acts of the movie. Peter only manages not to get killed because he gets bailed out by his suit, or by Tony. Only in the third act do we see a Peter that isn't acting ridiculous, and makes decisions that are more in line with the quick wit and competence he had shown in Civil War.

Let's not equivocate on the fact that Peter's portrayal in this film was inconsistent with his portrayal in Civil War, which remains a major issue. I'm all for a Spider-Man "Year One" where we see him learn the ropes, but such a movie should not be the follow up to a film where the protagonist in question was far more capable while taking on experienced opponents.

He's 15.

Right. He's the fifteen year old that took out Bucky and Falcon when they double-teamed him. He is also the fifteen year old that out-thought the more experienced adults on his team, and came up with a way to defeat Ant-Man. He is also the fifteen year old that invented web shooters, and had been fighting crime for months before Tony Stark came into the picture.

The difference between Civil War and Homecoming is, one is a matter of life and death, the other isn't. "Web these guys up" as opposed to "This guy is trying to kill me."

And Peter may have been Spider-Man for months, but doing the kind of stuff in the Ramones montage.

No he was not. Go re-watch the scene where Tony recruits Peter. We see Peter catch a car thief, and stop a 3,000 pound speeding car from striking the side of a city bus. Peter's first few months as Spider-Man weren't filled with him stopping bike thieves, and getting free churros for giving directions to elderly women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OnOJSNktOs&spfreload=10