I still think the school fight in ASM was the best Spider-man action sequence so far, mostly because it was creative and it had spideys personality all over it.
Raimi does action well but replace spider-man with superman and change a few things and he could pull it off just as well as nyder.
The homecoming action was decent but nothing special, the saving the kids in the lift scene was probably the most interesting action piece
How is it cherrypicking when I literally cited all of Peter's feats during his brief screen-time in Civil War? He gets downed after taking out Ant-Man, so it is not as if there are other references I could draw from.
As for Homecoming, I would hardly call my list "cherrypicking," as I opted to leave out several other ridiculous flubs that Peter made, including the cannon on the Ferry, the Washington Monument, (not to mention the inconsistent display of Peter's superhuman strength), and his fight against the Shocker (Herman).
You're comparing a highlight reel, which is what the five minutes of Spider-Man in Civil War was, to a full movie about an inexperienced kid learning to be a superhero. You continue to neglect or wave away all the instances showing Peter's intellect or prowess and instead amplify vague little nitpicks.
I have no need to cherrypick anything because Peter was shown to be more of a danger than a help for the first two acts of the movie. Peter only manages not to get killed because he gets bailed out by his suit, or by Tony. Only in the third act do we see a Peter that isn't acting ridiculous, and makes decisions that are more in line with the quick wit and competence he had shown in Civil War.
I liked the action a lot. It felt real and grounded in a way I like. Not as great as Raimi's action, but definitely preferrable over Webb's action if you ask me. My only gripe with the action is that the CGI wasn't very convincing at times.
It's referring to the scene in the movie where Peter is stuck underneath that giant hunk of metal and rubble. That scene is an homage to the scene in ASM issue #33 where Peter is stuck under a large piece of metal. If you're not familiar, it's one of the most, if not the most notable panels in all of Spider-Man comics.
You're comparing a highlight reel, which is what the five minutes of Spider-Man in Civil War was, to a full movie about an inexperienced kid learning to be a superhero. You continue to neglect or wave away all the instances showing Peter's intellect or prowess and instead amplify vague little nitpicks.
Except it wasn't a highlight reel, but rather a fully fleshed out scene that showed the audience why Peter was a valuable asset to Tony's Avengers. The Peter Parker shown to us in Homecoming was bereft of many of the strengths that he had displayed during the airport battle in Civil War. This isn't a matter of opinion, but an observable fact. The character's portrayal in Homecoming is inconsistent with his portrayal in Civil War.
That being said, I never claimed that Peter was without successes in Homecoming. I asserted that Peter spent the first two-thirds of the movie being incompetent, which again, would not have been an issue had we not been shown a more capable Peter in Civil War. The issue isn't that Peter made mistakes during this particular outing, but rather the nature of the mistakes within the context of a universe where Peter previously managed to navigate a crucible during a time when he had even less experience.
Unto itself, Homecoming does offer a dynamic character arc Spider-Man. As a story that takes place directly after the events of Captain America: Civil War, it is a regressive portrayal of Spider-Man. It makes no sense for Peter to be so clumsy in Homecoming, given that he has prior experience from his encounter in Civil War. Mind you, Civil War took place some three or four months before Homecoming. Between the Civil War battle, and whatever other activities Peter had undertaken since, Peter should have been a far more proficient crime fighter in this film.
That all being said, the movie is riddled with continuity errors that suggest that the film makers couldn't consistently portray Peter because they failed to manage the rest of the timeline, which is distressing considering how little canon there is for the MCU.
It seems that Jon Watts had one Spider-Man story in mind about a novice Peter Parker learning the ropes, but was told to make that story fit within the established events of the MCU, and that is where the problem lies.
1) The movie states that Vulture's operation was fully realized "eight years" after the events of Avengers, except the Avengers was in 2012, making it impossible for this film to be set eight years later.
2) By the end of Homecoming, the Avengers are still moving into their upstate headquarters, even though this movie is set after Civil War. During Civil War and Ant-Man, the Avengers were already getting situated in their upstate HQ.
3)
Tony prepares to propose to Pepper in the final act of the film, but in Civil War it is implied that the two of them have split.
You are welcome to view this film uncritically, but I am under no compulsion to do likewise. Please note that just because I am critiquing this film's flaws does not mean that I did not enjoy it for what it was. Also note that my critique does not prohibit you from enjoying a flawed film.
Most movies are rife with continuity errors. Pointing out said errors isn't nitpicking, or cherrypicking. The MCU Spider-Man films will not improve because a devoted fanbase opts to pretend that Homecoming is problem free, or that its major flaws are supposedly minor.
I liked the action a lot. It felt real and grounded in a way I like. Not as great as Raimi's action, but definitely preferrable over Webb's action if you ask me. My only gripe with the action is that the CGI wasn't very convincing at times.
I did, too. And agreed, it was definitely a step up from Webb's action. It's also Watts' first go at big action-y stuff. It's apparent he did think through a lot of the shots though. There's some cool stuff in the Ferry sequence with movement and the camera. One in particular where he's webbing up the ship, and then somewhere after he was slinging with Vulture and jumps back to the ship.
Truthfully, no. It was actually the worst part of the movie for me.
I understand they were going for a real sense of panic and fear that a 15 year old would have but seeing him cry like that and listening to him panic just made me cringe and then further spoiled by what could've been a perfect opportunity for him to remember something motivated by Uncle Ben instead of Uncle Tony Fury.
I completely hated how this scene was handled but I respect what they tried to do. I just think they could've found at least 11 different ways to do it better.
It just missed the mark for me.
His scenes in Civil War were great, capable of holding his own against superhuman soldiers and Giant Man, but there was none of that with Vulture this time. The entire plane scene was an overly-dark collage of flashing lights and screeching sounds, and there were no real fights between the hero and the villain, which is what I expected
I refuse to believe that Feige and MS are responsible for this movie's continuity errors at this point: this has to be Sony's doing
Truthfully, no. It was actually the worst part of the movie for me.
I understand they were going for a real sense of panic and fear that a 15 year old would have but seeing him cry like that and listening to him panic just made me cringe and then further spoiled by what could've been a perfect opportunity for him to remember something motivated by Uncle Ben instead of Uncle Tony Fury.
I completely hated how this scene was handled but I respect what they tried to do. I just think they could've found at least 11 different ways to do it better.
It just missed the mark for me.
This is more or less what I said to my wife as we watched the film. On one hand, I was excited to see a reference to ASM #33, but on the other hand, the emotion of the scene was exaggerated, and the motivation to push forward was lacking. The film makers indeed squandered an opportunity for Peter to remember Uncle Ben and his guiding words of wisdom.
That all being said, the rubble scene is not my pick for the worst scene in the movie. For me, Peter being unable to punch through reinforced glass irked me to a degree I did not know was possible. The backflip over the helicopter made for an excellent cinematic shot, and entering with a crash added to the drama, but the idea that Spider-Man, who at his weakest can press 10 tons, is unable to punch through reinforced glass, was just awful.
This is more or less what I said to my wife as we watched the film. On one hand, I was excited to see a reference to ASM #33, but on the other hand, the emotion of the scene was exaggerated, and the motivation to push forward was lacking. The film makers indeed squandered an opportunity for Peter to remember Uncle Ben and his guiding words of wisdom.
That all being said, the rubble scene is not my pick for the worst scene in the movie. For me, Peter being unable to punch through reinforced glass irked me to a degree I did not know was possible. The backflip over the helicopter made for an excellent cinematic shot, and entering with a crash added to the drama, but the idea that Spider-Man, who at his weakest can press 10 tons, is unable to punch through reinforced glass, was just awful.
This movie had zero emotional weight for me and I kinda resent it for that. It made me laugh here and there but thats it. This movie deserved a better director imo.
I just felt this wasn't at all a Spidey flick for my generation. It was difficult for me to enjoy this.
hahaha! Well, this kid clearly doesn't know how to throw a punch. Lifting rocks is much simpler.
This movie had zero emotional weight for me and I kinda resent it for that. It made me laugh here and there but thats it. This movie deserved a better director imo.
I just felt this wasn't at all a Spidey flick for my generation. It was difficult for me to enjoy this.
hahaha! Well, this kid clearly doesn't know how to throw a punch. Lifting rocks is much simpler.
From my point of view the action in SMH was very 'Batman Begins'. Very low key and underwhelming. In the sequel they fix all the action problems and the action is more dynamic with more weight and consequences. The same can be said for SM2 compared to SM1. Let's hope Watts improves his action chops in two years.
I think the overall cheap quality of filmmaking was its biggest flaw. This is definitely a movie I wouldn't rewatch. The lack of drama and engaging storytelling.
From my point of view the action in SMH was very 'Batman Begins'. Very low key and underwhelming. In the sequel they fix all the action problems and the action is more dynamic with more weight and consequences. The same can be said for SM2 compared to SM1. Let's hope Watts improves his action chops in two years.
I don't know, the Razorbat battle was intense and the final fight in Sm1 is probably among the most brutally intense scenes in the genre. I still haven't had that sense of vulnerability from the protagonist in pretty much every superhero movie I've seen.
I don't know, the Razorbat battle was intense and the final fight in Sm1 is probably among the most brutally intense scenes in the genre. I still haven't had that sense of vulnerability from the protagonist in pretty much every superhero movie I've seen.
I can't talk for anyone else but I was bored in the action scenes for BB especially the climax. The car chase (Batman vs the police) was good, though.
I think it was inexperience that stopped Watts pulling the camera back so the audience could make out what was happening during the action. He'll learn. Nolan did.
Wasn't thinking about any previous SM movie when watching SMH. Well, maybe the ferry scene and holding the two halves together reminded me of Toby holding back the train.
Yeah, definitely. I didn't mean that I was consciously thinking "Oh, this reminds me of the final fight in Spider-Man 1!" but the scene evoked that same sense of vulnerability, as you mentioned, that I hadn't experienced really, since that film.
The biggest flaw for me was the lack of visceral aspect. I didn't care enough, I just had fun, I wasn't too invested and going into it, I wasn't expecting an A+ film rating.
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