Days of Future Past Actors from original trilogy on First Class sequel with Days of Future Past - Part 1

[night0205]

Whenever people discuss these movies it seems like people are at a disconnect. Like they don't really like what Singer has done with the X-men movies because Singer doesn't do things like the comics, he always had his own tone and style of film making... and honestly that tone and style really isn't like the comics at all. But then movies like The Last Stand come out that are a more action/flashy tone and style (despite the characters that die) seemed a little be more like the comic in tone and style... but people have a hard time accepting that because it's different then Singer's style. Origins: Wolverine is also very much that way. I'm not saying these movies are good, nor am a defending their weaknesses, but very few of you actually dislike what Singer has done (because it's not like the comics) and most of you hate X3 and Wolverine (love Singer) and don't seem to mind how different it is then the comics. I agree that Singer is the X-men films, but I'm not pretending to think it's that close to the X-men comics. Just as I'm not really pretending to think Christopher Nolan's Batman is really that close to the Batman comics. Both take whatever liberties they want, and do it the way they want. You either like that or not. We really haven't seen the epic wide action you see in an X-men comic, almost similar to what the Avengers movie showed us. It just makes a lot of these statements/arguments seem forced. Rogue got cured as an extent of what little Singer started with that character. Cyclops died as an extent of what little Singer did with that character. These are logical ends to anyone who is continuing on with Singer's films, and yet people are hoping/expecting/trusting that Singer will fix all his past mistakes and make everything the hard core fans want. He may, but just remember those involved with X-men The Last Stand, are the same people who are involved with the rest of the movies, except for the puppet Brett Ratner who was brought in late to sink with the ship. Honestly Brett Ratner had little effect on who died/lived and was just there to shoot the movie. The story had already been established before he got there. I think Bryan Singer takes responsibility for all the weaknesses of all the X-men movies, for various reasons. Let's just hope he can greatly improve on past mistakes. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[DigificWriter]

Who says he has to resurrect Cyclops??....

It is looking increasingly likely that the future events o f DoFP will be post-TLS, so the only way for Famke and James to be involved would be for Singer to resurrect their characters.

 

[night0205]

It is looking increasingly likely that the future events o f DoFP will be post-TLS, so the only way for Famke and James to be involved would be for Singer to resurrect their characters.

Increasingly likely to whom? What evidence is this?

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Ellen Page's return, for one; The Wolverine being set after the events of TLS, for another; and FOX's efforts to create and maintain a fairly cohesive continuity for the X franchise, for yet another.

 

[lordofthenerds]

^ Ellen Page's return, for one; The Wolverine being set after the events of TLS, for another;

I'd say Singer's saying "Thanks Ratner for letting them live" confirms it the most actually.

and FOX's efforts to create and maintain a fairly cohesive continuity for the X franchise, for yet another.

If this is true, they haven't exactly been doing a bang up job at it.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ People have grossly exaggerated the number and severity of the continuity issues that exist in the franchise as it stands right now, and with it also becoming increasingly likely that Origins: Wolverine is being ignored as non-canon, the franchise actually links together rather cohesively.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I'd say Singer's saying "Thanks Ratner for letting them live" confirms it the most actually.


If this is true, they haven't exactly been doing a bang up job at it.

Fox probably didn't have that much faith in the franchise till The avengers made the big bucks then it was like oohhh so thats what audiences like?

 

[lordofthenerds]

^ People have grossly exaggerated the number and severity of the continuity issues that exist in the franchise as it stands right now, and with it also becoming increasingly likely that Origins: Wolverine is being ignored as non-canon, the franchise actually links together rather cohesively.

I could make a list of all the continuity issues if you'd like. Origins being ignored as non-canon only helps out a little.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ FOX was clearly expecting a different end result for Origins: Wolverine, but obviously still wanted - and want - to maintain a single continuity for the franchise, as is evidenced by the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to reboot the franchise with First Class and instead made it a prequel.

Anyone who believes that FOX doesn't want to maintain a singular continuity for the X franchise is ignoring the facts as they stand and deluding themselves.

@lordofthenerds: Go ahead and make your list, although I expect that most of its content will be comprised of minor quibbles.

 

[lordofthenerds]

^ FOX was clearly expecting a different end result for Origins: Wolverine, but obviously still wanted - and want - to maintain a single continuity for the franchise, as is evidenced by the fact that they didn't take the opportunity to reboot the franchise with First Class and instead made it a prequel.

Anyone who believes that FOX doesn't want to maintain a singular continuity for the X franchise is ignoring the facts as they stand and deluding themselves.

They want to maintain a singular continuity, but this doesn't change the fact that they already screwed it up by giving Matthew Vaughn a lot of creative leeway. Which made for a good movie, his movie, but also put some holes in the established continuity.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Bryan Singer had as much to do with First Class, story-wise, as Vaughn did.

You keep saying there are all these major continuity errors in FC and also said you were going to list them, so do it and prove your argument because, as far as I can see, the only significant continuity issue that was generated by First Class is Xavier walking into Jean's house at the start of The Last Stand, and it is actually something that can be explained away and rationalized with very little effort.

 

[lordofthenerds]

Here...

MAJOR
1. At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. This takes place in the year 1962. In X3, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be in the 80s.

2. In that same opening scene in X3, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways. Magneto would clearly no longer be helping Charles recruit students.

MODERATE
3. First Class shows Beast build Cerebro. In the original, Xavier says that he built it with the help of Magneto. This is important to the plot because...

4. It was explained that since Magneto helped Xavier build Cerebro in the first film, he was able to construct a helmet that blocked Xavier's telepathy. In First Class, he takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw. Furthermore, in the original film, Xavier indicates that Magneto must have constructed the helmet recently ("He found a way to block it somehow").

5. Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart. She also seems to have made an abrupt change in careers.

MINOR
6. In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.

7. In the original film, Xavier says "Storm, Jean, and Scott were some of my first students". However, if the school was established in 1962 and they did not enroll until the 80s, it would take a very loose definition of the word "first" to view them as some of his first students.

8. In X2, we see Beast in human form. In First Class, we see him transform from human to blue mutant. Unless he was able to transform himself back to human, and decided to turn himself blue again in The Last Stand, that just wouldn't make any sense.

9. In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see young Storm and Cyclops cameos. That would mean both characters in the trilogy should be about 50 years old.

 

[craigdbfan]

Basically they can explain it by being divergent timelines. Thus big events happening at different times.

 

[DigificWriter]

Like I expected, most of those are minor quibbles or are obviously flat-out retcons. The only major issue is, as I expected, the Xavier walking thing, and that can, as I noted, be easily explained and rationalized.

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

Let's face it, nothing lines up completely. None of the explanations is watertight but that's the nature of this series.

It's like the Terminator series all over again.

 

[GuestStar2004]

2 of the minor problems i just count as easter eggs for the fans, not something that was gonna be used later

 

[lordofthenerds]

Like I expected, most of those are minor quibbles or are obviously flat-out retcons. The only major issue is, as I expected, the Xavier walking thing, and that can, as I noted, be easily explained and rationalized.

How would explain Magneto being with him or the building of Cerebro? These are not "minor quibbles". They were actually important to the plots of the OXT.

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

We have to wait and see DOFP to see if X:FC started a new timeline.

 

[DigificWriter]

Xavier and Magneto have never been truly at loggerheads with each other to the point that they could never be reconciled, and the ending of First Class is consistent with that.

The Cerebro thing is clearly a retcon, as is the age at which Charles first met Erik.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Here...

MAJOR
1. At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. This takes place in the year 1962. In X3, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be in the 80s.

2. In that same opening scene in X3, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways. Magneto would clearly no longer be helping Charles recruit students.

MODERATE
3. First Class shows Beast build Cerebro. In the original, Xavier says that he built it with the help of Magneto. This is important to the plot because...

4. It was explained that since Magneto helped Xavier build Cerebro in the first film, he was able to construct a helmet that blocked Xavier's telepathy. In First Class, he takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw. Furthermore, in the original film, Xavier indicates that Magneto must have constructed the helmet recently ("He found a way to block it somehow").

5. Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart. She also seems to have made an abrupt change in careers.

MINOR
6. In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.

7. In the original film, Xavier says "Storm, Jean, and Scott were some of my first students". However, if the school was established in 1962 and they did not enroll until the 80s, it would take a very loose definition of the word "first" to view them as some of his first students.

8. In X2, we see Beast in human form. In First Class, we see him transform from human to blue mutant. Unless he was able to transform himself back to human, and decided to turn himself blue again in The Last Stand, that just wouldn't make any sense.

9. In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see young Storm and Cyclops cameos. That would mean both characters in the trilogy should be about 50 years old.

Ignore the opening scene of Last Stand.Let's be honest the reason for that
Is at time Bryan Singer probally only wanted First Class to be seen as prequel to his films but Fox later made it clear they wanted Last Stand In cannon.

Xavier said magneto helped him build cerebro.he never said they Invented Cerebro.Easy way around It.Offscreen during first Class magneto helped Xavier rebuild cerebro protype In mansion.

Yes magneto's helmet Is an error.a possable way around it Is The Shaw helmet eventully was overpowered by Xavier and Magneto bulit a more powerful version and Xavier was surprised by this.

Moira Is a major plothole and Is sign first Class was originally suspose to be prequel to X-Men and X2 only.

The dialogue about past when It comes to hwen Xavier and Magneto first met and Cyclops,storm,and jean as some of my first students Is getting trying to debate.man franchises and TV shows make liberties with what Is said In dialogue.

Beast on TV In X2 was easter eggExpecting them to stay true to maybe 30 seconds of screentime Is silly.

As has been mentioned In this thread nobody Identied them In first Class cerebro sequenze as storm and Cyclops.It's getting to be pointless debate.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

How would explain Magneto being with him or the building of Cerebro? These are not "minor quibbles". They were actually important to the plots of the OXT.

Well the first Cerebro was destroyed...Magneto can help Charles build a 2nd one in this one. The dialogue was never "Magneto helped me come up with the entire concept and science behind it". It was "He helped me build it"

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

Here...

MAJOR
1. At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. This takes place in the year 1962. In X3, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be in the 80s.

2. In that same opening scene in X3, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways. Magneto would clearly no longer be helping Charles recruit students.

MODERATE
3. First Class shows Beast build Cerebro. In the original, Xavier says that he built it with the help of Magneto. This is important to the plot because...

4. It was explained that since Magneto helped Xavier build Cerebro in the first film, he was able to construct a helmet that blocked Xavier's telepathy. In First Class, he takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw. Furthermore, in the original film, Xavier indicates that Magneto must have constructed the helmet recently ("He found a way to block it somehow").

5. Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart. She also seems to have made an abrupt change in careers.

MINOR
6. In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.

7. In the original film, Xavier says "Storm, Jean, and Scott were some of my first students". However, if the school was established in 1962 and they did not enroll until the 80s, it would take a very loose definition of the word "first" to view them as some of his first students.

8. In X2, we see Beast in human form. In First Class, we see him transform from human to blue mutant. Unless he was able to transform himself back to human, and decided to turn himself blue again in The Last Stand, that just wouldn't make any sense.

9. In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see young Storm and Cyclops cameos. That would mean both characters in the trilogy should be about 50 years old.

Again, we have to wait and see DOFP to see if X:FC started a new timeline. (like the new Star Trek) If so, then all these points are void.

 

[Duran Man]

Here...

MAJOR
1. At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. This takes place in the year 1962. In X3, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be in the 80s.

2. In that same opening scene in X3, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways. Magneto would clearly no longer be helping Charles recruit students.

MODERATE
3. First Class shows Beast build Cerebro. In the original, Xavier says that he built it with the help of Magneto. This is important to the plot because...

4. It was explained that since Magneto helped Xavier build Cerebro in the first film, he was able to construct a helmet that blocked Xavier's telepathy. In First Class, he takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw. Furthermore, in the original film, Xavier indicates that Magneto must have constructed the helmet recently ("He found a way to block it somehow").

5. Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart. She also seems to have made an abrupt change in careers.

MINOR
6. In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.

7. In the original film, Xavier says "Storm, Jean, and Scott were some of my first students". However, if the school was established in 1962 and they did not enroll until the 80s, it would take a very loose definition of the word "first" to view them as some of his first students.

8. In X2, we see Beast in human form. In First Class, we see him transform from human to blue mutant. Unless he was able to transform himself back to human, and decided to turn himself blue again in The Last Stand, that just wouldn't make any sense.

9. In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see young Storm and Cyclops cameos. That would mean both characters in the trilogy should be about 50 years old.

Just because.

1. Xavier has regained his ability to walk every now and then.

2. The nature of Charles and Erik's relationship is despite the fact that they fervently and fundamentally disagree on mutants' place in society, and will fight each other, they respect each other and manage to maintain their friendship. What happened at the end of First Class could be considered their first "spat."

3. There is more than one Cerebro.

4. Old age, head injuries, amnesia, take your pick.

5. They're relatives. American 60s Moira is the aunt of Scottish 2000s Moira.

6. Charles lied.

7. Charles lied.

8. Image inducer.

9. The kid in the sunglasses could have just been a kid in sunglasses. As for Storm, that was probably her, but black women age well, so she being 50 (despite Halle Berry's age) isn't out of the realm of probability.


OR


Alternate timelines.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

@spideyboy 1111: Actually, a reboot in fiction has only one meaning: to discard all established continuity in a series and start over from the beginning.

Neither First Class nor The Wolverine are reboots; First Class is a prequel to the OXT, and The Wolverine is a self-contained sequel to the OXT; we had originally believed that The Wolverine was going to be a sequel of sorts to Origins: Wolverine, but were mistaken on that front.

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance is not a reboot either, as it is considered to be a direct sequel to the original Ghost Rider film even though it takes things in a much different direction rather than continuing the story arc(s) set up by the first film; however, by the definition of what does and does not constitute a reboot with regards to serialized fiction, what they with GR: SoV did was not a reboot, but a 'retooling'.

to writers, yes... but I'm pretty sure that word get's tossed around studios quite alot... and miss-used quite alot.

I think the way i described a "reboot" is pretty spot on to how movie studios view it.. weather it's correct use or not.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Again, we have to wait and see DOFP to see if X:FC started a new timeline. (like the new Star Trek) If so, then all these points are void.

to anyone who thinks this will happen just don't hold your breath just incase

no one knows what direction FOX wants to go in after this film and they still got the wolverine films

if the wolverine film is a success they may want to keep to that wolverine timeline