The Force Awakens Adam Driver as Kylo Ren - Part 1

[terry78]

Kylo Ren is a sith geek gone bad, that is the long and short of it. He's basically one of us, lol.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I love that Anakin, the chosen one, was created by the force. I just want more clarity on the prophecy about bringing balance to the force. He's created at least 3 more force sensitives on his own while wiping out most of the others. Need more on that as that's the whole point to these saga films.

Kylo will be Leia's ultimate good ending. The talks of him being pulled back to the light and him killing off Han leaving Leia with such a mess was all I needed to be convinced that he will be redeemed in this trilogy.

 

[jokesonm3]

 

[terry78]

Close-up of his light saber hilt from Wired. I like how it looks like he just cobbled that **** together in shop.

 

[jaqua99]

Nope, the moment he took the helmet off I was able to sympathize with him on a more human level and right then and there I knew Kylo was going to be kept for the next 2 movies. It seems to me people have a problem with the character not being what they want him to be, versus appreciating what he actually is and has the potential to become.

All of my friends thought he was awesome, and had more depth than they were expecting. He isn't "emo", not everyone who is emotionally conflicted is "emo", that's just a term thrown around by people who don't know how to describe something they don't understand. A lot of the people complaining about him sound more "emo" than anything he did in the movie lol.

Kylo is still a rookie and has much to learn, that we are all aware of by what happens (and what is said) in this movie. Based on who Kylo Ren is now at this stage in his life in TFA, how can anyone not be excited or cuurious to see how he grows and develops in the next Episode? I would suspect after Snoke trains him and brainwashes him some more, he'll be even more of a force to reckon with in EP 8. OR he might be even more conflicted. Who knows, all I know is if I was the next writer or director of the film and they handed the character of Kylo Ren to me and said "It's your turn now. You can do what you want with him" I would be ecstatic.

Ben Solo is Borderline, without a doubt. It would explanain the conflict and the redemption/being easily swayed and tricked. He's not emo, he's got an inferiority complex and he hides behind a mask to give off a persona, meet his masters standards, and to be similar to his hero. He's a mess of an individual, and to me, he's borderline and I think that's just so damn interesting

 

[The Rocket]

I'm surprised that people dislike Kylo Ren. I think he's a brilliant character. All of the new cast members are supposed to be kids (young adults). They're all on the path to becoming adults, and as they mature they will become surer of their identities.

Kylo Ren is full of internal conflict. He always wants to be more than he is, and for that he walks with a chip on his shoulder. He wants to be a leader, although at his age he has not quite developed the mindset to be an appropriate one. His frustration comes through in his violent outbursts, and his lack of stability at times shows that there is still a sense of youthfulness in him -- he is not a wise, patient, methodical being. He is impatient. He wants to be strong, but he is vulnerable, both physically and mentally (emotionally); he has attachments to home, but at the same time he despises his personal feelings and longs to betray them so that he can be a respected leader and an imposing figure on the galaxy. This is a guy who has things to prove to people; he is selfish, and he feels that he is more important in a greater context than the people around him might give him credit for. There is a lot of bitterness in this character. Some people would be able to relate to him.

As he matures, he will become even more powerful. Just as Rey and Finn have lots to learn, so does he. This is not an antagonist who simply shows up at the start much stronger than the protagonists, and who must be overcome; he isn't a mere hurdle for the protagonists to conquer in order for their arc to be complete; this is an antagonist who is evolving alongside his enemies, who must race against time to stay on top of his competition. He has his own arc. He has flaws, and is imperfect in a lot of ways; he'll be constantly trying to rectify those issues in himself, and his loss on Starkiller Base will have his blood boiling. This is an embarrassment that a person of ambition would not take lightly.

Kylo Ren is an apprentice of evil, and he will continue to grow and develop as a character. We have character development here. This story is as much about the growth of Ben as it is of Rey.

Considering they're both essentially on an even playing field as new characters in a three-part story, a lot can happen to change the power dynamic between Ren and Rey.

Based on the characteristics that have been established in this film, Ren will probably obsess over how to become far more powerful than he was here. This guy has a mighty chip on his shoulder, and this loss would be a disgrace to him.

One of the online podcasts/reviewers that I listened to made a great point: Ren is pretty much untested. He has never had to face any other force-sensitive individual in combat for quite a long time, possibly never.

The classic trope is to have a weak protagonist lose easily to a powerful antagonist, and then have to train to defeat the antagonist. That is Luke's story in the Original Trilogy as well. It's a cliche that this story doesn't need to follow.

The Force Awakens dismisses that trope and offers instead a tale of two rivals who must grow and train to overcome one another. They will fight again, the result possibly being different depending on where each character is at when they meet. They are peers who have simply taken opposite paths. Kylo has lost, and so he has his own journey now to chase his dream and overcome his challenges. There is far more flexibility in terms of his story because of his fallibility. There are multiple narratives here, not just one. Kylo Ren has his own story. We don't know how it will end. It's exciting to see how he will develop.

That's character development.

The fact that this film implies that Snoke must train Ren attests to Ren not being very skilled or experienced. He can't even build a stable lightsabre at this point. He commands an army of stormtroopers and can interrogate non-Force sensitives, but perhaps his ego has blinded him to the fact that he doesn't know enough at this point. A person with his characteristics would generally deny that they're not good enough or that they have flaws, so they become unteachable; I've known people like that. At this point, he isn't Goliath; Ren might in fact be a wannabe at this point, which is why he pulls out his lightsabre and loses himself when he is bested -- to assert his superiority over others. Snoke will finally whip him into shape.

Ren has a lot of appeal as a character. His is a tale of tragedy.

 

[kickass]

Jaqua99 and The Rocket, you both make great points. Kylo Ren was one (of many) highlights of the film for me and I can't wait to see more of him and what they do with him in the next 2 films. I don't know how anyone can dislike a character like Kylo Ren when other characters from other films and stories that are similar are beloved by fans (Prince Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender comes to mind).

When a film and a character elicits these kinds of discussions, that's definitely a good thing.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Has anyone seen this on tumblr?




Like Mother Like Son






And this one?


What Will Happen in Episode VIII?

 

[FlareKnight]

The Rocket makes a great breakdown of his character.

Except it still fails to cover the key issue. Why should I give a damn about this guy? Great, there's a potential journey and character arc for him. All of that could have still applied to someone who was at least interesting and not a walking joke.

All of it has to work for this person, this character. Right now this guy is so sad that I find it hard to see him actually turning into any threat no matter how much training he gets. The problem is the movie undercut any belief in this guy's potential. The whole parallel growth arc only works if the two characters (Rey and Kylo Ren) are relatively equal. Right now she seems to have way more potential ability than he does and all the work won't matter since she's going to be training between movies.

In the end this all could have worked with a better character. Oh great a goofy guy with an inferiority complex. That's really interesting.

Great if the next movie can turn him into a credible character. But at this point? Disappointment from the moment that mask came off.

Jaqua99 and The Rocket, you both make great points. Kylo Ren was one (of many) highlights of the film for me and I can't wait to see more of him and what they do with him in the next 2 films. I don't know how anyone can dislike a character like Kylo Ren when other characters from other films and stories that are similar are beloved by fans (Prince Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender comes to mind).

When a film and a character elicits these kinds of discussions, that's definitely a good thing.

Very simple....Zuko was not a crappy character. Even in the first book, Zuko was still an interesting character. He was a good threat, but not too much of one. And there was good balance there with Iroh beside him. Unlike a whiny, incompetent like Kylo Ren.

 

[craigdbfan]

This is pretty hilarious.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The fact that Vader has fangirl lining up to see him is fantastic.

 

[Wise]

I'm glad that Kylo didn't have yellow eyes.

I always thought it was dumb that Anakin's eyes suddenly changed to yellow.

Dooku didn't have yellow eyes. The whole Dark Side causes your body to decay thing always seemed stupid to me.

Palpatine worked in ROTJ because it looked like the Dark Side hadn't caused his body to decay, but rather that he was far beyond his natural life span and whilst his body had started to decay naturally the Dark Side was keeping his body alive.

 

[Loki882]

Considering that he:

-Has Force powers that we've NEVER seen before on-film (stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, paralyzing people's bodies, rendering them unconscious with a wave of his hand, etc), I take serious issue with the idea that he "lacks potential." He has A LOT of it.

-He managed to pry the information that he needed from Poe's head, capture Rey single-handed and quite easily, and then knock her out a second time as well. He also managed to get some information out of her head as well.

-She only started winning when she accepted the Force and (I think) tapped into the Dark Side herself (that look on her face when he falls down isn't one of calm and serenity, it's was one of anger and passion). Before that, she was on the run for most of the fight, and she looked pretty worn out by the end as well.

-Not to mention that he was wounded, angry, emotionally conflicted, over-confident, and only partially-trained himself.

So I also take issue with the idea that he's "incompetent" as well. Seems like typical fanboy overexaggeration to me.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah, I'm going to go with the stance of....I hate this character's existence. It has nothing to do with him killing Han, I just think he sucks as a character.

Oh joy he has some complexity and depth....and they couldn't have done that in a way that made him at least interesting? What am I supposed to care about with this poor-man's Loki? I get that they did exactly what they set out with this guy and did him well in that respect. But say someone crafts a really nice pile of garbage. No matter how well done it is....it's still a pile of garbage.

I'm not even sure this guy is actually particularly powerful in the force. He just happens to have some force ability because of lineage. How is this guy even going to be the #2 villain of the movie? A bit of training isn't going to salvage this guy as a villain. The only things I see him capable of killing are inanimate objects, old people that refuse to move....and that's about it.

As far as I'm concerned he's the biggest black mark on this new series of movies being any good.

By that logic, I could say similar things about Vader. What makes him all that interesting of a villain, hmm? A "poor man's Doctor Doom" and all that.

 

[kickass]

Considering that he:

-Has Force powers that we've NEVER seen before on-film (stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, paralyzing people's bodies, rendering them unconscious with a wave of his hand, etc), I take serious issue with the idea that he "lacks potential." He has A LOT of it.

-He managed to pry the information that he needed from Poe's head, capture Rey single-handed and quite easily, and then knock her out a second time as well. He also managed to get some information out of her head as well.

-She only started winning when she accepted the Force and (I think) tapped into the Dark Side herself (that look on her face when he falls down isn't one of calm and serenity, it's was one of anger and passion). Before that, she was on the run for most of the fight, and she looked pretty worn out by the end as well.

-Not to mention that he was wounded, angry, emotionally conflicted, over-confident, and only partially-trained himself.

So I also take issue with the idea that he's "incompetent" as well. Seems like typical fanboy overexaggeration to me.

Exactly. He is actually quite powerful, except he gets in the way of himself. He is his own worst enemy and that limits him to a degree.

Interesting note about Rey, though. I keep hearing people complain that Rey being "too powerful" is a plot hole and blah blah blah. Do people not realize this is the first film of a new trilogy? We still have 2 more movies with Rey to delve into her character and backstory. How can anyone expect everything to be revealed and explained in just the first film? Hurts my head, it does lol.

 

[FlareKnight]

Considering that he:

-Has Force powers that we've NEVER seen before on-film (stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, paralyzing people's bodies, rendering them unconscious with a wave of his hand, etc), I take serious issue with the idea that he "lacks potential." He has A LOT of it.

-He managed to pry the information that he needed from Poe's head, capture Rey single-handed and quite easily, and then knock her out a second time as well. He also managed to get some information out of her head as well.

-She only started winning when she accepted the Force and (I think) tapped into the Dark Side herself (that look on her face when he falls down isn't one of calm and serenity, it's was one of anger and passion). Before that, she was on the run for most of the fight, and she looked pretty worn out by the end as well.

-Not to mention that he was wounded, angry, emotionally conflicted, over-confident, and only partially-trained himself.

So I also take issue with the idea that he's "incompetent" as well. Seems like typical fanboy overexaggeration to me.

None of those things absolutely require the character to have much potential. The first thing is just throwing force at a blaster shot in a straight line. That's not particularly complicated or require much skill or ability. It's never been seen before because no one would need to do that. It's easier to just deflect a single shot than waste time with a needless bit of showmanship.

What does the second point even prove. Any idiot with a light saber should be able to capture one individual with a single blaster.

And wow, a force sensitive individual using the force to help themselves through a fight. Maybe the guy being trained as a Jedi and then by the dark side should have considered doing that in the fight. Again, proving he has far less potential than the girl he's going up against. All of it sounds like an excuse for him losing. He had enough in the tank to chase them down. And someone like this character is always going to have those issues. So if he can't compete when he's emotionally conflicted he better pack it up and go home.

But yeah, obviously those who don't agree with you are fanboys....on a super hero fan site.....geeze maybe those who agree with you and you yourself are a fanboy just by being here.

By that logic, I could say similar things about Vader. What makes him all that interesting of a villain, hmm? A "poor man's Doctor Doom" and all that.

Show me a good movie Doctor Doom that predated Star Wars and maybe you'll have a half-decent argument.

 

[kickass]

Show me a good movie Doctor Doom that predated Star Wars and maybe you'll have a half-decent argument.

Isn't the fact that Doctor Doom existed before Darth Vader enough lol?

 

[Hotwire]

Exactly. He is actually quite powerful, except he gets in the way of himself. He is his own worst enemy and that limits him to a degree.

Just like his grandfather was at that age.

 

[FlareKnight]

Isn't the fact that Doctor Doom existed before Darth Vader enough lol?

No, I wouldn't. If I'm talking about characters in the realm of film, I'm sticking with characters in that realm of film.

 

[kickass]

No, I wouldn't. If I'm talking about characters in the realm of film, I'm sticking with characters in that realm of film.

Well, no one can force you (no pun intended) to like Kylo Ren until the filmmakers do something with him that YOU specifically like. JJ has already won myself and others over with this character and I'm excited to see where they take him next. I couldn't say the same for Anakin after TPM and I couldn't say the same for Vader after ANH (although, of course, everything wraps up quite nicely when you have 3 films to complete his story - something Kylo Ren doesn't have YET).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

None of those things absolutely require the character to have much potential. The first thing is just throwing force at a blaster shot in a straight line. That's not particularly complicated or require much skill or ability. It's never been seen before because no one would need to do that. It's easier to just deflect a single shot than waste time with a needless bit of showmanship.

What does the second point even prove. Any idiot with a light saber should be able to capture one individual with a single blaster.

And wow, a force sensitive individual using the force to help themselves through a fight. Maybe the guy being trained as a Jedi and then by the dark side should have considered doing that in the fight. Again, proving he has far less potential than the girl he's going up against. All of it sounds like an excuse for him losing. He had enough in the tank to chase them down. And someone like this character is always going to have those issues. So if he can't compete when he's emotionally conflicted he better pack it up and go home.

But yeah, obviously those who don't agree with you are fanboys....on a super hero fan site.....geeze maybe those who agree with you and you yourself are a fanboy just by being here.

Show me a good movie Doctor Doom that predated Star Wars and maybe you'll have a half-decent argument.

You do know he was losing blood during that time don't you, and then during his fight with Finn, in which he suffered a further injury. Losing blood also weakens you, then he was also losing blood when fighting Rey.

Rey struggled greatly in the fight for most of it at well, having to run away until she had no choice but to embrace the force.

Well, no one can force you (no pun intended) to like Kylo Ren until the filmmakers do something with him that YOU specifically like. JJ has already won myself and others over with this character and I'm excited to see where they take him next. I couldn't say the same for Anakin after TPM and I couldn't say the same for Vader after ANH (although, of course, everything wraps up quite nicely when you have 3 films to complete his story - something Kylo Ren doesn't have YET).

 

[LostSon88]

Exactly. He is actually quite powerful, except he gets in the way of himself. He is his own worst enemy and that limits him to a degree.

Interesting note about Rey, though. I keep hearing people complain that Rey being "too powerful" is a plot hole and blah blah blah. Do people not realize this is the first film of a new trilogy? We still have 2 more movies with Rey to delve into her character and backstory. How can anyone expect everything to be revealed and explained in just the first film? Hurts my head, it does lol.

People lack patience. They'd all be terrible Jedi...

 

[BatLobster]

I found it interesting that Kylo says, "Show me again, grandfather" when talking to Vader's helmet.

Makes me wonder whether the force ghost of Vader (which we've now seen concept art for) has manifested itself before Kylo in the past.

 

[terry78]

Even if it did it has to be a hallucination since his ghost was redeemed.

 

[batman1]

Inflicting pain to override the shock maybe. As previously mentioned, to increase adrenaline. Either way he was injured by Chewie's shot and wasn't fighting at 100%.

I was impressed how he didn't get blown away. He took a direct shot. He must be strong with the force physically. I took it he was already dieing and needed medical attention and got injured even more.