The Force Awakens Adam Driver as Kylo Ren - Part 1

[BatLobster]

The original Topps trading cards from 1977 listed Vader as a Dark Lord of the Sith. Vader was described as a Dark Lord of the Sith in the earlier drafts of the screenplay too.

It wasn't retconned so much as just not explained in the films, but the idea that the Jedi and Sith were two divergent sects that were locked in a spiritual war with one another was one of the very earliest ideas.

I'm not against seeing new dark side users, but I just have my doubts that the Sith are gone forever. Are we really never going to get a new Darth _____ villain in the main saga? I'm not saying it's a must, but commercially it seems a bit counter-intuitive.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm pretty sure Vader and the Emperor were Sith. The books refer to Vader as a Sith lord multiple times. Lucas had already thought of the word Sith when he made Star Wars but for some reason he didn't use it until The Phantom Menace.

The original Topps trading cards from 1977 listed Vader as a Dark Lord of the Sith. Vader was described as a Dark Lord of the Sith in the earlier drafts of the screenplay too.

It wasn't retconned so much as just not explained in the films, but the idea that the Jedi and Sith were two divergent sects that were locked in a spiritual with one another was one of the very earliest ideas.

I'm not against seeing new dark side users, but I just have my doubts that the Sith are gone forever. Are we really never going to get a new Darth _____ villain in the main saga? I'm not saying it's a must, but commercially it seems a bit counter-intuitive.

That is true I forgot about that too. Given how I've been skimming through the Making of Star Wars book, I saw, I must be getting that confused with the name "Darth" being the title of every Sith, a reton I'm growing not to like as much. Once Darth was just the first name of Vader.

 

[BatLobster]

That is true I forgot about that too. Given how I've been skimming through the Making of Star Wars book, I saw, I must be getting that confused with the name "Darth" being the title of every Sith, a reton I'm growing not to like as much. Once Darth was just the first name of Vader.

The thing is though, "Darth" clearly derives from "Dark" Lord of the "Sith". Again, "Dark Lord of the Sith" appears in the early drafts when describing Darth Vader. The connection is pretty clear.

Obi-Wan calling him Darth doesn't really mean much. Hux calls Kylo just "Ren" in TFA, which is really the same kind of thing, as it's the 'generic dark side alias' part of his name. I would imagine each the Knights of Ren are called _______ Ren.

 

[Greens]

The thing is though, "Darth" clearly derives from "Dark" Lord of the "Sith".

I can't believe I never saw that.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The thing is though, "Darth" clearly derives from "Dark" Lord of the "Sith". Again, "Dark Lord of the Sith" appears in the early drafts when describing Darth Vader. The connection is pretty clear.

Obi-Wan calling him Darth doesn't really mean much. Hux calls Kylo just "Ren" in TFA, which is really the same kind of thing, as it's the 'generic dark side alias' part of his name. I would imagine each the Knights of Ren are called _______ Ren.

I know Lucas probably got the name from "dark" but Lucas has also said the name just popped in his head at one point which happens with creating names. But the phonetic similarities between the names doesn't prove the name "Darth" was always the title for a Sith Lord which never was the case in the original notes. I think these are just a simple matter of Lucas making these connections later on which happens often when developing a mythology. Obi-Wan did call Vader "Darth" in ANH instead of Vader in such a way where it's just a first name and not a title.

The Ren aspect I agree with you on.

 

[Marvolo]

Where are you getting this?
It's just speculation without much weight, isn't it?


While he may not refer to himself as a Sith, there's nothing suggests that Snoke may have had an affiliation with the Sith at one point. I don't understand why everyone is ignoring the statement by Serkis that Snoke is OLD, and knows about prior events because he's been around for a while. That, coupled with the original title for the movie, it is certainly within the realm of possibility that Snoke is older than even Yoda, and despite his new presence, may have had SOME affiliation with the Sith hundreds of years prior.

Also, Snoke's comments regarding Kylo, and the Knights of Ren was something along the lines of "you, the mightiest of the knights of ren". Nothing Snoke said suggests that the Knights of Ren are all his apprentices? Is there something else that states he has more than one apprentice?

It's all from the TFA Visual Dictionary. I think it's still $12 on Amazon. Lots of interesting nuggets of info. It says everything that's in that post.

 

[MurkeNyou]

Yup, the visual dictionary has a bunch of background details, it's a good buy.

 

[smappy45]

I was just reading Japanese audience thoughts about the movie and I find it interesting that Kylo Ren is a lot more popular than Poe Dameron among the Japanese female audience. From what I gathered, these are the points that makes the Japanese girls swoon.

1. He knelt down in front of Poe and tilted his head to the side, like being playful.
2. After he destroyed the machines in anger, he asked "Anything else?" in a calm tone. (japanese girls likes that kind of character/attitude gap)
3. He put Rey to sleep and he bridal-carried her to the ship, like a gentleman.
4. He knelt down in front of unconscious Rey, like taking a peek at a pet cage.
5. He said "You're my guest" in a gentle voice.
6. He unmasked himself for Rey.
7. He destroyed all the apparatus again when Rey escaped, throwing a tantrum, like he need a mother's hug.

I think Adam Driver just gained his own fanbase in Japan and it's bound to get bigger, once his Japanese novel-based film out this year.

I wonder if JJ Abrams and co aimed for female teen audience when he created Kylo Ren character? He's the very first YOUNG villain in Star Wars. Previous villains in PT and OT were either old or aliens. I wonder if it was a deliberate move? Or is it something necessary to the story that they made the villain 28 years old, relatively good-looking and not fully trained?

 

[Havok83]

I dont see that as a surprise. Poe was barely in the movie and IMO, didnt do anything signficant besides bring Finn into the story. Meany Kylo was a lead character seen throughout and had a decent story arc. I prefer him over Poe myself and Im definitely no Japanese girl. Im more surprised that Poe seems to be as popular as he is bc I dont think anything about him in this movie is really all that impressive or intriguing

I wonder if JJ Abrams and co aimed for female teen audience when he created Kylo Ren character? He's the very first YOUNG villain in Star Wars. Previous villains in PT and OT were either old or aliens. I wonder if it was a deliberate move? Or is it something necessary to the story that they made the villain 28 years old, relatively good-looking and not fully trained?

the two main protagonists, Rey and Finn are also youngsters. This film is made for a newer generation so going younger makes sense. It also works within the narrative as this is meant to take place 3 decades after OT so new, younger characters makes sense. Obviously being the son of Han and Leiais a driving force of this film, so they had pick someone under 30. This particular story arc wouldnt work without that. Maybe Im not the best judge for this, but Adam Driver isnt what I would say is relatively good looking, at least not by Hollywood's typical standards

 

[AnneFan]

Yup, the visual dictionary has a bunch of background details, it's a good buy.

Yes, plus the cross sections book.

I'm thinking of buying the making of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi books too. They're pricey, but look worth every cent.

 

[The Rocket]

Hi everyone. I've synthesized all of my thoughts on Kylo Ren into this short essay on Reddit. I think that the character of Kylo Ren is brilliant. If you ever wanted to see Hamlet in Star Wars, this is him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3zf2c9/spoilers_a_close_analysis_of_kylo_ren_why_kylo/

 

[kickass]

Hi everyone. I've synthesized all of my thoughts on Kylo Ren into this short essay on Reddit. I think that the character of Kylo Ren is brilliant. If you ever wanted to see Hamlet in Star Wars, this is him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3zf2c9/spoilers_a_close_analysis_of_kylo_ren_why_kylo/

I'd love to read your essay, but the link doesn't go to it

 

[Loki882]

I believe that Kylo was made young for several reasons:

-As others have said, the main heroes are all younger (heck even Oscar Isaac is younger than I thought. He's only in his mid-30's). So this is a new generation.

-General Hux is also quite young, so it's a nice contrast to the Empire in the OT, who's leaders tended to be older. "Young fanatics" vs. "old veterans" and all that.

-I think that they were making some kind of meta commentary. Many people expected them to just try and do "Vader 2.0." So not only did they NOT do that, but they almost did a commentary on how that's not really possible. NO ONE can replace Darth Vader.

So instead, we have an angry, mentally unstable, young man who has potential/talent, but lacks the self-control and focus of previous Force Users. He also worships Vader, and WANTS so badly to be as powerful as him, and is trying so hard to do that. But, he has no idea of HOW to actually do that correctly.

 

[Loki882]

I was just reading Japanese audience thoughts about the movie and I find it interesting that Kylo Ren is a lot more popular than Poe Dameron among the Japanese female audience. From what I gathered, these are the points that makes the Japanese girls swoon.

1. He knelt down in front of Poe and tilted his head to the side, like being playful.
2. After he destroyed the machines in anger, he asked "Anything else?" in a calm tone. (japanese girls likes that kind of character/attitude gap)
3. He put Rey to sleep and he bridal-carried her to the ship, like a gentleman.
4. He knelt down in front of unconscious Rey, like taking a peek at a pet cage.
5. He said "You're my guest" in a gentle voice.
6. He unmasked himself for Rey.
7. He destroyed all the apparatus again when Rey escaped, throwing a tantrum, like he need a mother's hug.

I think Adam Driver just gained his own fanbase in Japan and it's bound to get bigger, once his Japanese novel-based film out this year.

I wonder if JJ Abrams and co aimed for female teen audience when he created Kylo Ren character? He's the very first YOUNG villain in Star Wars. Previous villains in PT and OT were either old or aliens. I wonder if it was a deliberate move? Or is it something necessary to the story that they made the villain 28 years old, relatively good-looking and not fully trained?

Jeez! I mean granted maybe there's some cultural differences that I'm not privy to, but ewww. Everyone of those things just made him seem creepy and psychotic to me. Especially the scenes with Rey.

 

[MurkeNyou]

Jeez! I mean granted maybe there's some cultural differences that I'm not privy to, but ewww. Everyone of those things just made him seem creepy and psychotic to me. Especially the scenes with Rey.

It's Japan. Tentacles are charming and playful there.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I was just reading Japanese audience thoughts about the movie and I find it interesting that Kylo Ren is a lot more popular than Poe Dameron among the Japanese female audience. From what I gathered, these are the points that makes the Japanese girls swoon.

1. He knelt down in front of Poe and tilted his head to the side, like being playful.
2. After he destroyed the machines in anger, he asked "Anything else?" in a calm tone. (japanese girls likes that kind of character/attitude gap)
3. He put Rey to sleep and he bridal-carried her to the ship, like a gentleman.
4. He knelt down in front of unconscious Rey, like taking a peek at a pet cage.
5. He said "You're my guest" in a gentle voice.
6. He unmasked himself for Rey.
7. He destroyed all the apparatus again when Rey escaped, throwing a tantrum, like he need a mother's hug.

I think Adam Driver just gained his own fanbase in Japan and it's bound to get bigger, once his Japanese novel-based film out this year.

I wonder if JJ Abrams and co aimed for female teen audience when he created Kylo Ren character? He's the very first YOUNG villain in Star Wars. Previous villains in PT and OT were either old or aliens. I wonder if it was a deliberate move? Or is it something necessary to the story that they made the villain 28 years old, relatively good-looking and not fully trained?

He is a bit like an anime or JRPG villain.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Kylo Ren makes me, a male, swoon too.

 

[The Rocket]

I'd love to read your essay, but the link doesn't go to it

Oops. I deleted it because I couldn't change the title.

Here it is in /r/Movies. There are more readers there, so I think that's the subreddit that makes sense for this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3zgy8n/star_wars_a_close_analysis_of_kylo_ren_why_kylo/

 

[Wildcard]

It's hard not to love a villain as well written & portrayed as Kylo Ren...so much pathos there, so many different complexities all working at once. He really has all the makings to be a classic villain. If they play their cards right, he could be bigger and better than Vader. Seems like a stretch but it's possible.

 

[ares834]

The thing is though, "Darth" clearly derives from "Dark" Lord of the "Sith". Again, "Dark Lord of the Sith" appears in the early drafts when describing Darth Vader. The connection is pretty clear.

Obi-Wan calling him Darth doesn't really mean much. Hux calls Kylo just "Ren" in TFA, which is really the same kind of thing, as it's the 'generic dark side alias' part of his name. I would imagine each the Knights of Ren are called _______ Ren.

No. Darth was literally meant to be his name. Even in the early drafts when Vader wasn't a force user/sith but was just a military officer his name was "Darth Vader".

 

[sueb1863]

What's funny to me is all the fangirls who think Kylo is an emo teen. Driver is almost 30 years old! He's not a kid.

 

[Broseph44]

It's hard not to love a villain as well written & portrayed as Kylo Ren...so much pathos there, so many different complexities all working at once. He really has all the makings to be a classic villain. If they play their cards right, he could be bigger and better than Vader. Seems like a stretch but it's possible.

Doesn't seem like a stretch to me at all. I loved him in this film, everything they did with him and Drivers performance. Wonderful. Cannot wait to see the evolution of him over this ST.

 

[Broseph44]

This "emo crybaby princess" ******** is so dumb honestly.

 

[kickass]

I agree. It's a perfect example of fans and haters nitpicking smaller details and enlarging them to cast a shadow over the otherwise huge success of this film as a whole.

If anyone wants to watch a villain who's nothing but an annoying emo crybaby, watch Eddie Redmayne in Juputar Ascending. Good God, what a terrible character.

 

[Jaxon]

I know Lucas probably got the name from "dark" but Lucas has also said the name just popped in his head at one point which happens with creating names. But the phonetic similarities between the names doesn't prove the name "Darth" was always the title for a Sith Lord which never was the case in the original notes. I think these are just a simple matter of Lucas making these connections later on which happens often when developing a mythology. Obi-Wan did call Vader "Darth" in ANH instead of Vader in such a way where it's just a first name and not a title.

The Ren aspect I agree with you on.

Isn't Darth Vader Swedish or something for Dark Father? I heard that somewhere. Probably been tricked.