The Force Awakens Adam Driver as Kylo Ren

[godisawesome]

It also does kind of line up with more pitiable and somewhat pathetic portrayal of his dark side devotion. Vader seemed kind of resigned to the dark side being more powerful than the light, while Kylo seems to be obsessed in finding truth in that idea.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm thinking parental neglect. Leia was busy setting up the New Republic and Han may have been struggling to cope with Ben's force sensitivity that when both Leia and Han decided to send him to Luke he saw that as a form of abondement.

Luke was probably caught up in restoring the Jedi that he treated his own nephew more like a student than a family member, so Kylo started to take form by having one way conversations with granpapa Anakin and looking up to him as a father figure allowing Snoke and any other agent involved to persuade him to follow the dark side.

That's what I think at least.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Visualiza]

I'm interested in seeing who the other knights of Ren are , and if they are other fallen Jedi from Luke's academy. I'd really love to see a female Sith.

On a second note, any theories as to why he fell to the darkside to begin with? Was just a thrist for more power in the force? Was it over a lost love? Anyone dare to take a guess?

My thoughts from another thread:

I have a bit of a speculative idea about this. I think that Kylo, growing up, was probably the type of child who was prone to anger, frustration, and emotional outbursts, to a greater extent than most others are. Perhaps he couldn't shake these tendencies, so that's why his parents sent him off to train with Luke (and in retrospect, a pretty *****ty reason to send your kid off to "holy warrior school"). I'd imagine that Luke explains the differences between the Jedi and the Dark Side, (as well as Vader's story) and Ben, in his mind putting 2 and 2 together, assumes that his personality type fits in with the dark side moreso than it does the Jedi. Snoke potentially whispering in his ear may have exacerbated this as well. From there, I can easily see how a twisted rationalization could lead to him wanting to carry on Vader's legacy. In effect, he's not a true believer in the sense that he's wholly indoctrinated by Sith/Dark Side ideology, but he's doing what he does because he feels that this is where he's supposed to fit in.

Ultimately, my position is that he chose the dark side because the tenets of that ideology line up with some of his natural impulses. Concepts like tranquility and calm are probably foreign to him, so Jedi doctrine isn't the right fit. This is why I imagine he struggles with self-doubt, as since he isn't fully indoctrinated, he also still has compassion and empathy for others. Even so, he'll still kill them and do all manner of atrocious things to convince himself otherwise, even though his emotions may give him pause. He wants to "learn" or condition himself to be ruthless and selfish, so to speak. The "call to the light" as he alluded to isn't for nothing; he was probably a perfectly decent kid in his old life with some emotional issues that he just couldn't reconcile (his angry outbursts were a bit of a clue, to me). Mix that with the confusion of adolescence, and I could see why he would choose one path over the other, even if it went against his instincts. People do that sort of thing (minus the grim consequences, of course) all the time.

 

[storyteller]

It also does kind of line up with more pitiable and somewhat pathetic portrayal of his dark side devotion. Vader seemed kind of resigned to the dark side being more powerful than the light, while Kylo seems to be obsessed in finding truth in that idea.

I think Vader basically gave up like an addict. He couldn't return to his old life physically or mentally.

 

[jmc]

This character is irredeemable in my eyes after the second viewing.

 

[kang604]

Driver really proved his chops in his scene with Ford.

Great acting.

 

[The Chris]

This character is irredeemable in my eyes after the second viewing.

I hate him for life. Something I could never say about Vader.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

lol. ya'll are serious? because of han? anakin killed a bunch of kids before he became vader. i'd like to see the rest of the trilogy before i assume he's irredeemable. than again, i totally expect him to fall back to the light at some point during episode 9. i don't see rey and luke being able to deal with with both kylo and snoke.

 

[MurkeNyou]

[BLACKOUT]He killed Han, which a lot of people liken to a father figure.[/BLACKOUT]

No surprise people see him as irredeemable and want him dead.

 

[danoyse]

And I think that's why he did what he did to Han. Probably thought if he did that, there really is no turning back.

And I think living with what he did is going to be harder than he realizes. And he can’t take it back.

 

[The Chris]

Yeah that was messed up, so I'm not actually saying Kylo Ren is worse than Darth Vader. I'm saying I hate him for life because

Spoiler

of Han yes

. I didn't know those kids (character wise of course) and they didn't show the deed , so that's why this gets a different reaction. Plus even Vader showed love for his blood. Dude turned to the dark side because he thought he could save his wife, he wouldn't let the emperor kill his son. Look what this guy purposely did

Spoiler

to his own dad.

So yeah he's unredeemable to me right now.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

And I think living with what he did is going to be harder than he realizes. And he can’t take it back.

That definitely seemed like something that would come bck to haunt him, or that he'd come to regret

 

[danoyse]

That definitely seemed like something that would come bck to haunt him, or that he'd come to regret

And that Han’s last gesture was to touch his face, like he’d forgiven him and told him he’d still loved him.

You could see how much losing that kid broke Han’s heart.

 

[jmc]

lol. ya'll are serious? because of han? anakin killed a bunch of kids before he became vader. i'd like to see the rest of the trilogy before i assume he's irredeemable. than again, i totally expect him to fall back to the light at some point during episode 9. i don't see rey and luke being able to deal with with both kylo and snoke.

Spoiler

Anakin was redeemable because he was a tragic character, he didn't feel like he had any other choice other than to turn to the dark side because of Padme. What Kylo Ren he did was not because he felt he had no choice, it was done as a test, he was testing himself whether he could withstand the temptation of the light side of the force. He wasn't tempted to join the dark side, he wanted to join it, what he did at the end was about eliminating the final piece of who he once was. Kylo Ren is not a tragic character, he's a genuinely bad character. That's what makes him irredeemable. The theme in the film is that he is not Darth Vader, and that's 100% right, he's not, he's a wannabe with has no idea who Vader really was.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Even Snoke said he'd be tested like never before and the way Kylo said he didn't care about Han sounded like he was forcing himself to say that. Like Kylo himself felt that there was no going back

 

[Napoleon]

As I said in the other thread, my theory is that during the attack on Luke's Academy, Kylo was in a position where he could/had to kill Rey but he couldn't get himself to do it because she's family (presumably). So that way a big part of his motivation to kill Han is to prove himself to Snoke that he's fully embraced the Dark Side.

Also another big difference between him and Vader is that Vader was actually working to undermine his master, Sidious (as seen in the current Vader comic)n whereas Kylo seems to be unflinchingly loyal to Snoke and does not seem to question his authority.

 

[Brother Jack]

Spoiler

There are a lot of obvious Vader parallels with him but I was also reminded quite a bit of Luke, maybe even more so. Him killing Han was an inversion of the end of Return of the Jedi where Luke refuses to kill his father, cementing his turn away from the dark side. Here, it's a character committing to the dark side. As dark as it would be I kind of hope they don't do an eventual redemption arc for him, to differentiate him even more from Vader.

 

[terry78]

He's a much more complex character than just a villain, you see that in many scenes.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I did like that he was three-dimensional. In fear of upsetting people, I always felt that Darth Vader (as depicted in the original trilogy) was a rather one-dimensional character. And I found that his sudden change of heart against the Emperor came almost out of nowhere.

 

[Visualiza]

lol. ya'll are serious? because of han? anakin killed a bunch of kids before he became vader. i'd like to see the rest of the trilogy before i assume he's irredeemable. than again, i totally expect him to fall back to the light at some point during episode 9. i don't see rey and luke being able to deal with with both kylo and snoke.

His redemption always came across as a bit of a plot convenience to me. Part of the reason why Vader is considered redeemed is because he died. Had he survived, he almost certainly would have been a pariah; a traitor to what was left of the Empire, and public enemy number 1 to...the rest of the galaxy. I can't imagine society completely forgiving a genocidal military commander under the given circumstances, and before anybody goes there, General Butt Naked is the exception, not the rule. At the rate he's going, Kylo will himself be a pariah if he survives the events of this trilogy, irrespective of how heroic his potential turn is.

 

[Brother Jack]

I did like that he was three-dimensional. In fear of upsetting people, I always felt that Darth Vader (as depicted in the original trilogy) was a rather one-dimensional character. And I found that his sudden change of heart against the Emperor came almost out of nowhere.

The narrative question at play with Vader's arc was whether or not there was any humanity/goodness left inside the evil machine that he was. With Kylo, at this point, the question seems to be about what kind of man he will become. And he seems to fully commit to one side.

 

[spiderman2]

I have been seeing all the love he is getting and I don't get it. I have only seen the movie once I need to see it again before I can make a over all opinin but I think he was the worst part of the movie. He felt like a poor man's vader and remind me to much of anikan.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I have been seeing all the love he is getting and I don't get it. I have only seen the movie once I need to see it again before I can make a over all opinin but I think he was the worst part of the movie. He felt like a poor man's vader and remind me to much of anikan.

I feel that's the point.

 

[Snow Queen]

I have been seeing all the love he is getting and I don't get it. I have only seen the movie once I need to see it again before I can make a over all opinin but I think he was the worst part of the movie. He felt like a poor man's vader and remind me to much of anikan.

He can only really be seen as poor man's Vader for the first hour or so, until they start pulling back the layers on him and revealing that's all a facade he's putting on as he's trying to live up to the legacy of his grandfather. The fact he's somewhat poor man's Vader (not how I'd put it but those are the words you used) for a bit is the point, he's trying to be Vader, though he's his own distinct character. He's one of the most fascinating additions to the universe, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[spiderman2]

As I said in the other thread, my theory is that during the attack on Luke's Academy, Kylo was in a position where he could/had to kill Rey but he couldn't get himself to do it because she's family (presumably). So that way a big part of his motivation to kill Han is to prove himself to Snoke that he's fully embraced the Dark Side.

Also another big difference between him and Vader is that Vader was actually working to undermine his master, Sidious (as seen in the current Vader comic)n whereas Kylo seems to be unflinchingly loyal to Snoke and does not seem to question his authority.

That is a good point about vader and about wanting to undermine his mater.

I did like that he was three-dimensional. In fear of upsetting people, I always felt that Darth Vader (as depicted in the original trilogy) was a rather one-dimensional character. And I found that his sudden change of heart against the Emperor came almost out of nowhere.

I can kind of see what you are saying about vader when it comes to change of heart but I think there where some things right before then where you could hear a conflit in his voice before he does help luke.