After the credits scene ***SPOILERS***

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, another thing about mortal man challenging the gods: In the context of Thor's hammer, the Hulk lifting it through pure brute strength doesn't even work. He's a totally unique 'mortal' man who's proven virtually impossible to kill and has other powers bordering on the divine. He's not representative of mortals in general, and he sure as hell isn't worthy in any sense because he's a dumb, selfish brute. So the Hulk lifting Mjolnir sends one message: the Hulk's power exceeds that of the gods, effectively making him a god himself rather than a representative of mortals.

Captain America, on the other hand, lifts Mjolnir because he's a stalwart warrior and a pure soul. He's worthy. Moreover, he's absolutely representative of the best qualities mortals have to offer. His only "powers" are that he's the pinnacle of everything humanity can achieve physically. His lifting Mjolnir carries the message that humanity has the capacity to elevate themselves above their collective faults and follies and count themselves as equals to the gods in nobility and all other positive traits through self-sacrifice, dedication, and hard work.

One of those messages is worth conveying. I'll leave you to decide which.

 

[Son of Coul]

Personaly, I don't think ANYONE should be able to lift Mjolnir besides Thor; not Hulk, and not even Superman (even though he did it in that Avengers/JLA crossover). Thor had to prove that he was worthy before he could lift Mjolnir, but other superheroes can just pick it up without a moment's notice? That would belittle Thor and his virtues way too much.

I agree, as well as take away from the mysticism of Mjolnir.

 

[Manowar]

Personaly, I don't think ANYONE should be able to lift Mjolnir besides Thor; not Hulk, and not even Superman (even though he did it in that Avengers/JLA crossover). Thor had to prove that he was worthy before he could lift Mjolnir, but other superheroes can just pick it up without a moment's notice? That would belittle Thor and his virtues way too much.

I must say I was proud that Captain America was able to pick it up. In a way that action validated the virtuosity of both heroes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked it too. And Beta Ray Bill. I wasn't a fan of Eric Masterson being able to lift it before he was merged with Thor, though. You could argue that maybe he had the heart of a warrior even though he was just some normal dude, but that makes the worthiness thing a bit too abstract and murky for my tastes. Bill and Cap very clearly proved themselves to be great and noble warriors before they lifted Mjolnir. Dargo has the King Arthur-style reincarnation thing going for him since he was prophesied to be Thor's successor or whatever. But Masterson's just some random schlub, by all indications.

 

[NickNitro]

@ Raiden exactly

I deleted my post because its hard for me to argue with everyone when they clearly have a more vast comic knowledge then me.

All I want to say is you take away Thors ability to be the only one to hold Mjolnir (or even move it) I think you pretty much destroy the essence of Thors mysticism and uniqueness as a character.

I understand that some comics have others picking it up (as Corp said Cap in a comic picked it up) and I disagree with even that. I know Mjolnir only lifts for ones worthy of it but I feel it should only be Thor.

 

[afan]

To me it's a win, win demonstrating the power of both mjolnir and Hulk simultaneously. It's the immovable meeting the unstoppable..........again I am not advocating Hulk juggling mjolnir. After maximum effort he may lift it inches only, and it takes the entire fiber of his radiated strength to do even that. I really don't see how it minimalizes mjolnir at all if the strongest mortal being that exists in Marvel can barely lift it.

Most of the mortals that challenge the gods are exceptional.

Cap lifting it because he is judged "worthy" is not man challenging the gods, it is the gods granting him the privilege.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The gods didn't grant Cap anything, they put an enchantment on Mjolnir that said anyone worthy could lift Mjolnir, likely intending to limit it only to themselves because they believed they were superior to man. But Cap defied expectations and proved himself as worthy of the gods' power as the gods themselves based solely on the kind of person he is, man, god, or otherwise. It speaks to the quality of a being's soul, regardless of whatever type of life they were born into.

 

[afan]

OK.....but it's not challenging the gods. He's playing by their rules.

All I want to say is you take away Thors ability to be the only one to hold Mjolnir (or even move it) I think you pretty much destroy the essence of Thors mysticism and uniqueness as a character.

And yet some want Thor to approach Hulk in strength(me included BTW), doesn't that pretty much destroy the uniqueness and essence of Hulk.

 

[NickNitro]

I say we all just get together and go find Mjolnir and the one to pick it up can end this arguement.............by force!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't see it that way. He's not playing anything. He's a noble warrior and a good person, to the extent that he's an equal to the gods and worthy of their respect.

Anyway, by that standard, how is mindlessly raging against anything and everything any kind of conscious challenge against the gods?

 

[afan]

Not consciously, but still he meets their expectations; he's not challenging them.

Which Hulk do you reference when you use mindlessly?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, fair enough. We just see the issue completely differently, I guess. Either way, I still hope the Hulk never lifts Mjolnir in the movies or the comics that matter to me. It would do nothing other than tear Thor down when Marvel really ought to be building him up in anticipation for his movie and his renewed prominence within the comics.

 

[afan]

If everyone had the same opinion.......yawwwwwwwn....
Just for the sake of discussion....I believe you and I agree that Thor is not the product of mjolnir.

Now that being said.....if Hulk and Thor meet, and Hulk can go toe to toe with Thor.....yet Hulk is powerless re. mjolnir........doesn't that send a mixed message.

 

[Webhead2006]

i still doubt the marvel studios guys will have hulk holding the hammer at all, and they will probably have thor and hulk at a fair equal strength level.

 

[Manowar]

To me it's a win, win demonstrating the power of both mjolnir and Hulk simultaneously. It's the immovable meeting the unstoppable..........again I am not advocating Hulk juggling mjolnir. After maximum effort he may lift it inches only, and it takes the entire fiber of his radiated strength to do even that. I really don't see how it minimalizes mjolnir at all if the strongest mortal being that exists in Marvel can barely lift it.

Most of the mortals that challenge the gods are exceptional.

Cap lifting it because he is judged "worthy" is not man challenging the gods, it is the gods granting him the privilege.

Lifting it 1 inch or ten feet = same thing. A humble ant (yes the insect)can probably lift Mjolnir if one tried (who knows). One does not factor might when it comes to lifting Mjolnir. So using it to somehow praise the Hulk's strength is an insult to Mjolnir and Thor and all Thor fans. The opposite is what is appropriate, by having Hulk try and fail no matter how mad he gets. That is the scene every fan WANTS to see and every non-fan NEEDS to see. People need to learn that Mjolnir is not just a tool, or a weapon.

Mjolnir is an ideal.

 

[NickNitro]

I think in the Avengers it would be awesome if they did a scene like they did in the Hulk vs Thor movie when Hulk pumbles Thor.

Having Hulk (in that case Hulk controlled by Loki) giving all his strength to try to pick up Mjolnir, having Hulk growl and pull and pull and pull and nothing. Then Thor gets up holds out his hand an the hammer slips out of hulks massive grip and falls right into Thors hand.

I think it would be pretty epic.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If everyone had the same opinion.......yawwwwwwwn....
Just for the sake of discussion....I believe you and I agree that Thor is not the product of mjolnir.

Now that being said.....if Hulk and Thor meet, and Hulk can go toe to toe with Thor.....yet Hulk is powerless re. mjolnir........doesn't that send a mixed message.

Not really. If you'll allow me to venture a few steps below the conceptual level that we were talking about before: The magic that enforces the worthiness enchantment is greater than Thor's personal power because Odin placed that enchantment on the hammer. Not even other gods or other mystical beings can lift Mjolnir if they're not worthy.

 

[Manowar]

If everyone had the same opinion.......yawwwwwwwn....
Just for the sake of discussion....I believe you and I agree that Thor is not the product of mjolnir.

Now that being said.....if Hulk and Thor meet, and Hulk can go toe to toe with Thor.....yet Hulk is powerless re. mjolnir........doesn't that send a mixed message.

As per my post above, this would be the perfect message.

 

[TheFuture]

Oh, another thing about mortal man challenging the gods: In the context of Thor's hammer, the Hulk lifting it through pure brute strength doesn't even work. He's a totally unique 'mortal' man who's proven virtually impossible to kill and has other powers bordering on the divine. He's not representative of mortals in general, and he sure as hell isn't worthy in any sense because he's a dumb, selfish brute. So the Hulk lifting Mjolnir sends one message: the Hulk's power exceeds that of the gods, effectively making him a god himself rather than a representative of mortals.

Captain America, on the other hand, lifts Mjolnir because he's a stalwart warrior and a pure soul. He's worthy. Moreover, he's absolutely representative of the best qualities mortals have to offer. His only "powers" are that he's the pinnacle of everything humanity can achieve physically. His lifting Mjolnir carries the message that humanity has the capacity to elevate themselves above their collective faults and follies and count themselves as equals to the gods in nobility and all other positive traits through self-sacrifice, dedication, and hard work.

One of those messages is worth conveying. I'll leave you to decide which.

Awesome.

I love the idea of someone who is pure of heart being able to lift Mjolnir. I really dig the notion of how having honourable morals and a good heart can suggest that you can achieve the impossible (i.e. lifting Mjolnir).

 

[afan]

Awesome.

I love the idea of someone who is pure of heart being able to lift Mjolnir. I really dig the notion of how having honourable morals and a good heart can suggest that you can achieve the impossible (i.e. lifting Mjolnir).

Facetious remark ahead....proceed with caution.....

So any one under.... oh let us say.... 2 years old.... can weild mjolnir

 

[TheFuture]

Facetious remark ahead....proceed with caution.....

So any one under.... oh let us say.... 2 years old.... can weild mjolnir

LOL...I know you are taking the mickey...but what the hey...I was referring to people who make a conscious effort to be good.

 

[NickNitro]

t:

 

[TheFuture]

 

[afan]

t:

Ragnarok.....a bye baby........

 

[NickNitro]

lol i had to guys it was a perfect setup. took 2 seconds in photoshop. god what you can do with google and photoshop and 2 free seconds at work