Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 6

[mkilban2]

That guy is a doofus..

I like how because the show isn't what he imagined that it's terrible. And since when do FitzSimmons have thick, hard to understand accents? What a jabroni.

 

[Pokkle]

Episode 13 Synopsis

Spoiler

T.R.A.C.K.S.:" - Hot on the trail of the Clairvoyant, Coulson and his team board a mystery train that seems to be headed for certain death, on "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.," Tuesday, February 4 (8:00-9:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." stars Clark Gregg as Agent Phil Coulson, Ming-Na Wen as Agent Melinda May, Brett Dalton as Agent Grant Ward, Chloe Bennet as Skye, Iain De Caestecker as Agent Leo Fitz and Elizabeth Henstridge as Agent Jemma Simmons. Guest starring are David Conrad as Ian Quinn, Carlo Rota as Luca Russo, T.J. Ramini as Mancini, Ludwig Manukian as the Conductor, Emily Baldoni as Sofia, and a special cameo appearance by Stan Lee.

"T.R.A.C.K.S." was written by Lauren LeFranc and Rafe Judkins and directed by Paul Edwards.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Episode 13 Synopsis

Spoiler

T.R.A.C.K.S.:" - Hot on the trail of the Clairvoyant, Coulson and his team board a mystery train that seems to be headed for certain death, on "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.," Tuesday, February 4 (8:00-9:01 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." stars Clark Gregg as Agent Phil Coulson, Ming-Na Wen as Agent Melinda May, Brett Dalton as Agent Grant Ward, Chloe Bennet as Skye, Iain De Caestecker as Agent Leo Fitz and Elizabeth Henstridge as Agent Jemma Simmons. Guest starring are David Conrad as Ian Quinn, Carlo Rota as Luca Russo, T.J. Ramini as Mancini, Ludwig Manukian as the Conductor, Emily Baldoni as Sofia, and a special cameo appearance by Stan Lee.

"T.R.A.C.K.S." was written by Lauren LeFranc and Rafe Judkins and directed by Paul Edwards.

Spoiler

Interesting that the guy directing the episode also directed a few episodes of Sleepy Hollow.

 

[cph9fa]

Well, that rules out my thought that Stan Lee would be the conductor.

 

[Vartha]

Jim Steranko is ripping "Seeds" a new one:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/jim-steranko-agents-shield-do-671195

good lord lol I love the show no matter what Mr. Steranko says lol

 

[Vartha]

That guy is a doofus..

I like how because the show isn't what he imagined that it's terrible. And since when do FitzSimmons have thick, hard to understand accents? What a jabroni.

hehe yeah I have no issues with them either.

 

[cherokeesam]

That guy is a doofus..

I like how because the show isn't what he imagined that it's terrible. And since when do FitzSimmons have thick, hard to understand accents? What a jabroni.

He's got valid points about the poor writing though. He's absolutely spot on when he says they violate the cardinal writing rule of "show, don't tell." There was a lot of important exposition in this episode that was delivered verbally, and that's just laziness that lacks any impact whatsoever. At least Ep. 11 used a visual flashback sequence to show us Coulson's story; in Skye's case, you get a rogue agent delivering a soliloquy about "first there was this, then there was that, and I was all like pew pew, and the bad guys were all like rawr." That's b.s. from a writing standpoint ---- all of that should've been shown in a flashback.

 

[Vartha]

He's got valid points about the poor writing though. He's absolutely spot on when he says they violate the cardinal writing rule of "show, don't tell." There was a lot of important exposition in this episode that was delivered verbally, and that's just laziness that lacks any impact whatsoever. At least Ep. 11 used a visual flashback sequence to show us Coulson's story; in Skye's case, you get a rogue agent delivering a soliloquy about "first there was this, then there was that, and I was all like pew pew, and the bad guys were all like rawr." That's b.s. from a writing standpoint ---- all of that should've been shown in a flashback.

I still liked it

 

[cherokeesam]

I still liked it

I did, too.
But it *would* definitely have been more effective to see the Hunan shootout in action instead of just talked about.

 

[mkilban2]

They can still go back and show the actual events that happened. Could and probably will tie into a future plot point. I'm fine with how they did it if that's all we get but I'm guessing well get shown the actual events as well somewhere down the line this season.

 

[Vartha]

I did, too.
But it *would* definitely have been more effective to see the Hunan shootout in action instead of just talked about.

They're probably saving it for a season closer. Giving us both Phil and Skye's hidden secrets.
The only reason I can see why they didn't go into detail is the the cost of more actors. lol

 

[cherokeesam]

If it turns out that there's a "real" Mandarin beyond Killian, that would be a really terrible artistic choice. Killian is the real Mandarin. Instead of distancing themselves from that through the kind of convoluted retcons that plague superhero comics, they should stick to their guns and make that connection stronger. The wiser choice would have been to state unambiguously that the Ten Rings was funded by or even founded by AIM as a part of their scheme, and that Killian really was behind everything right from the beginning.

I'm really hoping that it will be revealed in the short that the Ten Rings really were founded by Killian, but that they simply don't know it, which is why they're going after Trevor for making them look bad. If they don't do that, which seems more likely, I really hope that they don't reveal the existence of a "real" Mandarin. That would be such hack writing.

Drew Pearce is unequivocal in stating that Ten Rings existed *long* before AIM, Killian, or Trevor.

How does this fit in to the entire Marvel mythology? In the feature film, we learn that Kingsley’s version of The Mandarin is a front set up by Aldrich Killian (Guy Pearce), but here he is surprised to learn there are people out there who still believe in the figure he was impersonating.

What it’s doing on that level is, it reiterates a bunch of stuff that actually Shane [Black, director and co-writer of Iron Man 3] and I said in our interviews around the movie. There’s lots of exposition in lots of different cuts of Iron Man 3 that, in the end, kind of got snubbed out. It’s kind of said in Iron Man 3 but very briefly, Aldrich essentially took a thing that was real, historically real and culturally real, and co-opted it for his own means — essentially co-opting an ancient terrorist concept. What [All Hail the King] does is show that everything in Iron Man 1 [involving the terrorist group] was canon all along any way. We kind of knew The Ten Rings were a real terrorist cell.

As for the existence of a "real" Mandarin, there's never been any indication of one in the other IM movies before IM3, and Stark would've certainly known about him before IM3 if he *did* exist.

Raza most likely answered to no one. He was calling all the shots, and changing the rules as he went along. In fact, without Raza's impetuous nature, Iron Man --- not to mention the Avengers and everything after --- would have never come into existence. Stane paid him to carry out a simple task: kill Tony Stark. Instead, he abducted and enslaved him, and the rest is history.

That shows that Raza was most definitely not taking orders from anybody, nor answering to anyone higher up the food chain. Even Stane was just a "business associate" to Raza, not his "boss."

 

[Xeno]

He's got valid points about the poor writing though. He's absolutely spot on when he says they violate the cardinal writing rule of "show, don't tell." There was a lot of important exposition in this episode that was delivered verbally, and that's just laziness that lacks any impact whatsoever. At least Ep. 11 used a visual flashback sequence to show us Coulson's story; in Skye's case, you get a rogue agent delivering a soliloquy about "first there was this, then there was that, and I was all like pew pew, and the bad guys were all like rawr." That's b.s. from a writing standpoint ---- all of that should've been shown in a flashback.

That is a problem I have had with the writing all along. The writers will have one or more of the characters tell the audience important things instead of revealing them visually in a natural manner. They did this back in Repairs, where instead of showing us what happened to Melinda May, the writers had Coulson dole it out in verbal snippets throughout the episode. It wouldn't have been necessary to stage the scenes of May's "Cavalry" raid in great detail; there have been many instances in which events like that have been presented in a more fragmented, almost dreamlike fashion and had major emotional impact. Just having one character tell another's story doesn't convey as much to the audience.


Steranko is absolutely right in his critique of the Skye revelation. It was as anticlimactic and anti-dramatic as it could possibly have been. We all expected the Magical Orphan reveal, but it should have been in a far more dramatic situation. Something, anything, should have been at stake, whether it was Skye's life, another member of the team or the fate of the world. Skye's safety could have been threatened by the unknown assassin after the agents who saved her, or her alleged powers might have been sought by Centipede, or some other crisis should have led to Coulson & May seeking that information. At least with Coulson's non-reveal last episode his own safety and sanity were on the line, which is all that made the revelation exciting. The information about Skye's recovery, for want of a better term, affected nothing of importance. For all the buildup the writers tried to give this "mystery" it was a complete letdown.


Even the supposedly emotional aftermath of the revelation was fumbled. Why have Coulson tell May (and also the audience) how Skye reacted to the big news? Why not take that time and show her telling him (and us) the exact same thing, in the exact same words? It's clear why the writers put that dialogue in Coulson's mouth; he has more pull with the audience than Skye and such setups are a typical tool used by lazy or inept writers to try and build up characters they know need it. Had they shown Skye maturely accepting the news and realizing that the SHIELD she has criticized time and again as a sinister government conspiracy actually protected her for her entire life at great sacrifice, that would have been true character development. It's impossible to get that on the cheap by conferring it through a third party.

 

[Vartha]

Drew Pearce is unequivocal in stating that Ten Rings existed *long* before AIM, Killian, or Trevor.



As for the existence of a "real" Mandarin, there's never been any indication of one in the other IM movies before IM3, and Stark would've certainly known about him before IM3 if he *did* exist.

Raza most likely answered to no one. He was calling all the shots, and changing the rules as he went along. In fact, without Raza's impetuous nature, Iron Man --- not to mention the Avengers and everything after --- would have never come into existence. Stane paid him to carry out a simple task: kill Tony Stark. Instead, he abducted and enslaved him, and the rest is history.

That shows that Raza was most definitely not taking orders from anybody, nor answering to anyone higher up the food chain. Even Stane was just a "business associate" to Raza, not his "boss."

we MIGHT be finding that out in the one-shot on Thor Dark World.
If Mandarin is as sneaky as he is in the comics, he could hide from SHIELD easy

 

[Xeno]

we MIGHT be finding that out in the one-shot on Thor Dark World.
If Mandarin is as sneaky as he is in the comics, he could hide from SHIELD easy

My guess is that in the One Shot Trevor is contacted in prison by the real Ten Rings group, who are enraged by his Mandarin masquerade. Somehow or other, the terrorists decide that he would make a great recruit to their cause because he was such an effectively terrifying presence on film and most people still believe he's their leader. So they spring Trevor from Seagate, spirit him off to their hideout and set him up with his Mandarin trappings again and he becomes a real fake terrorist leader. His Bin Laden was that toast of DC, you see.

 

[Vartha]

My guess is that in the One Shot Trevor is contacted in prison by the real Ten Rings group, who are enraged by his Mandarin masquerade. Somehow or other, the terrorists decide that he would make a great recruit to their cause because he was such an effectively terrifying presence on film and most people still believe he's their leader. So they spring Trevor from Seagate, spirit him off to their hideout and set him up with his Mandarin trappings again and he becomes a real fake terrorist leader. His Bin Laden was that toast of DC, you see.

I still think we see the Real Mandi contact Trevor in some way to pay him for his work lol

 

[mkilban2]

From what I see it seems like most people's problems with the writing is because they're not showing everything right away. People seem to complain about the build ups of stories and say its bad writing because they just want the reveal. I like everything they've given us and never see or saw a problem in writing or plots. I like to let them play out in front of me while I watch.

Everything they haven't shown in one episode/story was always eventually shown down the line, I assume the same will come in this Skye thing and of course the Clarvoyant, as well as graviton and blizzard. Or is it bad writing that they showed those two and didn't complete their stories yet?

 

[Xeno]

From what I see it seems like most people's problems with the writing is because they're not showing everything right away. People seem to complain about the build ups of stories and say its bad writing because they just want the reveal. I like everything they've given us and never see or saw a problem in writing or plots. I like to let them play out in front of me while I watch.

Everything they haven't shown in one episode/story was always eventually shown down the line, I assume the same will come in this Skye thing and of course the Clarvoyant, as well as graviton and blizzard. Or is it bad writing that they showed those two and didn't complete their stories yet?

It's bad writing to make the reveals so inconsequential. What is the use of building up these so-called mysteries only to have the revelations come off so flat? It all comes down to consequences. This show needs consequences and higher stakes for everything that happens. Even the Freak of the Week part of the episode felt oddly lacking in drama. There was never a moment of real uncertainty or credible danger in the whole thing.

 

[Dr. Evil]

That guy is a doofus..

I like how because the show isn't what he imagined that it's terrible. And since when do FitzSimmons have thick, hard to understand accents? What a jabroni.

I began to like them after FZZT.

 

[mkilban2]

It's bad writing to make the reveals so inconsequential. What is the use of building up these so-called mysteries only to have the revelations come off so flat? It all comes down to consequences. This show needs consequences and higher stakes for everything that happens. Even the Freak of the Week part of the episode felt oddly lacking in drama. There was never a moment of real uncertainty or credible danger in the whole thing.

They aren't inconsequential (fun word!) though. Everything either has panned out to a satisfying answer or has lead to more of that story. IMO everything done has worked well thus far, I can't think of anything I dislike yet.

 

[mkilban2]

I began to like them after FZZT.

Yeah tht was for sure when they really became good. Fitz is easily my favorite on the show.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The Bucky Barnes namedrop! I like the back story with Skye but she did take it all a bit easily, in fact she didn't actually get a scene, instead Coulson just told us how she reacted.

Not keen on emo Blizzard but I liked seeing the Shield Academy. The ep in 3 weeks looks like fun.

 

[cph9fa]

I like the back story with Skye but she did take it all a bit easily, in fact she didn't actually get a scene, instead Coulson just told us how she reacted.

Yeah, I'll admit, I did have a bit of trouble with that scene. Jumping on the "show don't tell" bandwagon, Coulson tells May "You know what she said? She said..." You know what? I'd have much rather seen her actually saying that, then hear Coulson say that she said that. Sometimes this show chooses odd POV's of what does and doesn't get shown.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Maybe they just felt giving Clark a speech at the end would be more effective. Not everyone will agree with every artistic decision.

 

[mkilban2]

It was more impactful with Coulson telling it all to May since she's the biggest Skye doubter and the only other person who knew about it. While I think tht May had come around to Skye the episode before last, it's even more certain now. I also think we'll most likely see the actual event in China as well as some more revelations about Skye. But I'm happy the team finally seems together and meshing well.