Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 7

[R_Hythlodeus]

Did they state when specifically we will find out who the clairvoyant is? Like a specific episode?

no.

 

[Dark Raven]

Did they state when specifically we will find out who the clairvoyant is? Like a specific episode?

They won't tell us about the future.

 

[The Question]

Running into that mansion without backup was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Skye doesn't have the training for that sort of situation so she made a rookie mistake. Someone in that heavily guarded house was bound to spot and catch her, even if the Clairvoyant hadn't alerted Quinn (which he might have done). She and Fitz should have sabotaged the vehicles, tried to get a working phone off one of Quinn's mooks and kept the situation under surveillance while waiting for the others to arrive. As noted above, her blundering into that house and getting shot was realistic because half of the team doesn't have the proper training to be in the field.

I really don't see how what your describing would have been any better. Either way, they're still two people in a hostile area with limited means to defend themselves. Plus, there was a genuine risk of Quinn leaving before help arrived, and seeing as the whole point of the mission was to capture Quinn, Skye decided it was worth the risk to go in there and secure him. That doesn't sound stupid, that sounds like someone trying to make the best of a less than ideal situation.

Also, there was no need to steal a phone, they already had the means to draw the rest of the team to their location.

 

[Gr0oT]

I think building him up gradually is probably what they are doing, especially given that big scar on his face seems ripe for having a plate over it.

If they do go with covering the face I almost think they'll cover the good part up out of cruelty or something.

I agree to a degree, but to me when you come in new to something that has a long history, respecting that history is important. Whenever I've became a fan of something I've made the effort to read up on what has come before to have a better understanding of it's mythology and characters.

Hallelujah to that.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

They won't tell us about the future.

The Clairvoyant would....

 

[Xeno]

I really don't see how what your describing would have been any better. Either way, they're still two people in a hostile area with limited means to defend themselves. Plus, there was a genuine risk of Quinn leaving before help arrived, and seeing as the whole point of the mission was to capture Quinn, Skye decided it was worth the risk to go in there and secure him. That doesn't sound stupid, that sounds like someone trying to make the best of a less than ideal situation.

Also, there was no need to steal a phone, they already had the means to draw the rest of the team to their location.

Since they could get the team to that location, Skye running into the mansion was doubly stupid. Even if Quinn left with the package before the others arrived SHIELD could easily have tracked and caught him, just as the train was tracked. They had (or should have had) satellite surveillance of the area so that nothing could escape their notice.* Skye, alone and armed only with a knock-out pistol, had little chance of actually capturing and securing Quinn in a compound that was swarming with hired, military-trained muscle. What was she going to do, knock him out and then sit there with his unconscious body while the goon squad came in and shot at her with their real pistols? And she sure as hell wasn't going to make it back out of there carrying the package without being spotted. Her whole plan was a cluster**** in the making from the start.



* SHIELD should have the capability to monitor situations on the ground from satellites just as the US military does in the real world. They could use drones, as well. If they can't do that in the MCU then the technology in this fictional universe is decades behind what real world intelligence agencies can do.

 

[The Question]

Since they could get the team to that location, Skye running into the mansion was doubly stupid. Even if Quinn left with the package before the others arrived SHIELD could easily have tracked and caught him, just as the train was tracked. They had (or should have had) satellite surveillance of the area so that nothing could escape their notice.* Skye, alone and armed only with a knock-out pistol, had little chance of actually capturing and securing Quinn in a compound that was swarming with hired, military-trained muscle. What was she going to do, knock him out and then sit there with his unconscious body while the goon squad came in and shot at her with their real pistols? And she sure as hell wasn't going to make it back out of there carrying the package without being spotted. Her whole plan was a cluster**** in the making from the start.



* SHIELD should have the capability to monitor situations on the ground from satellites just as the US military does in the real world. They could use drones, as well. If they can't do that in the MCU then the technology in this fictional universe is decades behind what real world intelligence agencies can do.

I guess? I just don't thin that kind of stuff really matters that much in fiction. Like, thematically, narratively, what Skye did felt very appropriate. All of that stuff about satellite surveillance and whatnot is true, but it's not very useful from a storytelling perspective. The scenario you're describing doesn't sound like particularly engaging television, at least not on a show that's told from the perspective of the field agents. In a show that's so thoroughly rooted in the trappings on a 60s spy drama, where the very sneaking into the compound and securing the bad guy solo is a pretty common occurrence, I really don't see much to criticize about the way Skye handled herself. And heck, even within the context of that, securing and knocking out Quinn inside the house and then finding a place to hide until back up arrived doesn't sound like the worst plan in the world to me.

I guess I just don't find this kind if criticism to be useful, and I don't think it's pointing out anything that the show is really doing wrong.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I really don't see much to criticize about the way Skye handled herself.

Yeah but you don't want to rip her face off with a garden claw either.

 

[The Question]

Yeah but you don't want to claw her face off with a garden weasel either.

True. But I rarely want to claw of a person's face with a garden weasel. To some extent because I don't know what a garden weasel is.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It wasn't the implement I thought it was after checking.

 

[SuperBatman]

Did they state when specifically we will find out who the clairvoyant is? Like a specific episode?

I think we won't find that out till the end of Season 1.

Here's hoping Shield does well enough to get a Season 2 and I think it will

 

[coluanprime]

What do people think Lorelei will look like? Do you think she'll wear her classic Simonson costume?
Simonson:

other looks:

 

[seahammer]

I think the actress has the right physical appearance naturally, so the question is really the costume. I think that depends on the context of her presence on Midgard.

Has she been here hiding out for awhile (like the Professor Randolph)? In that case, I think she'll be in regular clothes.

Or has she just fled Asgard? If that's the case, I hope she has some Asgardian garb.

Even something like what Frigga or Jane Foster wore in T:TDW would be similar to the blue dress she normally wears in the comics.

Either way, I'm very excited to see her look, and I can't wait to add her to this thread: Thor Characters in the MCU

 

[Dark Raven]

I hope that Lorelei does have some kind of costume and not a downgraded civvies outfit in AOS. Same with Sif for that matter. She better wear her Thor costume and not show up in a black jumpsuit or the kinds of things people show up in for TV shows.

 

[seahammer]

I hope that Lorelei does have some kind of costume and not a downgraded civvies outfit in AOS. Same with Sif for that matter. She better wear her Thor costume and not show up in a black jumpsuit or the kinds of things people show up in for TV shows.

I agree with your whole post, but especially the part in bold. As I said above, I could see extenuating circumstances for Lorelei, even if it isn't my preference. But Sif has no reason NOT to be in her movie costume.

 

[Iceman]

I've only seen one random episode of this show . What cameos have there been so far?

 

[The Question]

I hope that Lorelei does have some kind of costume and not a downgraded civvies outfit in AOS. Same with Sif for that matter. She better wear her Thor costume and not show up in a black jumpsuit or the kinds of things people show up in for TV shows.

I honestly don't see a problem with that. I like it when mythological beings show up on modern day earth wearing human clothes that look normal but contain references to the wearer's true nature in their design. I thought Loki looked great in his green and black suits. I think it emphasizes the air of mystery and wonder about them, like you know there's something awesome and terrifying about their true nature, which is entirely unlike ours, but their appearance will only hint at it and let us fill in the blanks ourselves. I usually think that's a lot more impressive than elaborate costumes.

 

[Xeno]

I guess? I just don't thin that kind of stuff really matters that much in fiction. Like, thematically, narratively, what Skye did felt very appropriate. All of that stuff about satellite surveillance and whatnot is true, but it's not very useful from a storytelling perspective. The scenario you're describing doesn't sound like particularly engaging television, at least not on a show that's told from the perspective of the field agents. In a show that's so thoroughly rooted in the trappings on a 60s spy drama, where the very sneaking into the compound and securing the bad guy solo is a pretty common occurrence, I really don't see much to criticize about the way Skye handled herself. And heck, even within the context of that, securing and knocking out Quinn inside the house and then finding a place to hide until back up arrived doesn't sound like the worst plan in the world to me.

I guess I just don't find this kind if criticism to be useful, and I don't think it's pointing out anything that the show is really doing wrong.

Cliched storytelling tropes speak to lazy writing. SHIELD not having or using real world surveillance technology is pretty shoddy. It's difficult to reconcile the cartoon version of SHIELD portrayed in AOS with the sleekly professional, ultra-sophisticated version in the MCU. That is due to poor presentation and writing rather than budget and scale.

 

[The Question]

Cliched storytelling tropes speak to lazy writing. SHIELD not having or using real world surveillance technology is pretty shoddy. It's difficult to reconcile the cartoon version of SHIELD portrayed in AOS with the sleekly professional, ultra-sophisticated version in the MCU. That is due to poor presentation and writing rather than budget and scale.

It only speaks to lazy writing if the alternatives is actually worthwhile and would improve the story. I really don't see how using surveillance technology the way you describe would make the story better or how it's absence is shoddy. It wouldn't make the plot more interesting, it wouldn't enhance the drama, it wouldn't serve as a vehicle for character development or interaction, it wouldn't further any narrative or thematic arts, it would just be a thing that would help the good guys win. Maybe they should have included a line about Cybertek being able to cloak themselves against spy satellites just to answer the question before anyone asks it, but it is at best a secondary concern for a writer.

And, back to Skye, what she tried to do was incredibly dangerous. But I wouldn't call an agent risking their life to make sure that their mission doesn't end in failure and that the guy who might have the answers to everything doesn't escape isn't stupid, it's being being brave in a situation where there aren't a whole lot of other options available. Sure, we as people in the real world with the benefit of hindsight can come up with alternative scenarios where things could have gone better, and maybe the writers could have done a better job at quelling such notions ahead of time, but in the context of the story I think Skye and all of the agents handled themselves well and we very well written this time around.

There are a lot of things that one can criticize the show's writing for, but the real problems are matters of theme and narrative cohesion and having a strong sense of what the stakes are. All of this other stuff about logistics and hypotheticals is a distraction, I think. It's all surface, when the real problems with a fictional work invariably run much deeper.

 

[Human Torch]

What do people think Lorelei will look like? Do you think she'll wear her classic Simonson costume?
Simonson:

other looks:

Good luck with any of that getting past the PC censors.

No,she'll be wearing the generic Lycra body suit,just like Sif (and virtually every other heroine in film & tv)

 

[The Question]

Good luck with any of that getting past the PC censors.

Neither of those dresses are unusually revealing. Women wear outfits like that on TV all the time. Heck, women have worn outfits like that on this show before. And what does political correctness have to do with anything?

 

[Human Torch]

Neither of those dresses are unusually revealing. Women wear outfits like that on TV all the time. Heck, women have worn outfits like that on this show before. And what does political correctness have to do with anything?

I've given up trying to understand why there seems to be a double standard when it comes to female comic-inspired costumes.

The first time I knew there was some kind of PC thing involved was Elektra's costume in the movies.She had to wear pants.Jennifer Garner was in her underwear in practically every episode of Alias,but she couldn't wear a skirt as Elektra?

I chalk it up to the fear the genre has.If you're a spy show or medieval series you can wear anything (or as little of anything) you want and it's not an issue.If it's a "super hero" show,there seems to be some kind of fear that a woman is being "objectified" by wearing a comic-accurate costume.

 

[The Question]

I've given up trying to understand why there seems to be a double standard when it comes to female comic-inspired costumes.

The first time I knew there was some kind of PC thing involved was Elektra's costume in the movies.She had to wear pants.Jennifer Garner was in her underwear in practically every episode of Alias,but she couldn't wear a skirt as Elektra?

I chalk it up to the fear the genre has.If you're a spy show or medieval series you can wear anything (or as little of anything) you want and it's not an issue.If it's a "super hero" show,there seems to be some kind of fear that a woman is being "objectified" by wearing a comic-accurate costume.

What are you talking about? It's no less of an issue in other genres than it is with superheroes. One of the single biggest criticisms lodged against Alias and Game of Thrones is how male gaze-y they often are. People have given both of those shows no end of **** for that sort of stuff. The only reason it comes up ahead of time in superhero movies is that they are adapting something that already has loads of needlessly skimpy outfits, something that can be changed in the adaptation to get ahead of any potential criticism or moral outrage. People are already complaining about the source material, so oftentimes they change it in the adaptation to avoid the complaints. There's no double standard, just a better application of foresight.

And, again, neither of those images are really that over-the-top in terms of skimpiness. They're not nun costumes, but they're well within the realm of clothes that people just wear normally in warm climates.

 

[Human Torch]

What are you talking about? It's no less of an issue in other genres than it is with superheroes. One of the single biggest criticisms lodged against Alias and Game of Thrones is how male gaze-y they often are. People have given both of those shows no end of **** for that sort of stuff. The only reason it comes up ahead of time in superhero movies is that they are adapting something that already has loads of needlessly skimpy outfits, something that can be changed in the adaptation to get ahead of any potential criticism or moral outrage. People are already complaining about the source material, so oftentimes they change it in the adaptation to avoid the complaints. There's no double standard, just a better application of foresight.

And, again, neither of those images are really that over-the-top in terms of skimpiness. They're not nun costumes, but they're well within the realm of clothes that people just wear normally in warm climates.

Or they could just quit messing themselves in fear of some projected "outrage" that might happen and just execute the concept as intended (much like the Spy Sagas and Medieval Epics do) regardless.

 

[The Question]

Or they could just quit messing themselves in fear of some projected "outrage" that might happen and just execute the concept as intended (much like the Spy Sagas and Medieval Epics do) regardless.

Why? What's wrong with making those kinds of changes in an adaptation?

For starters, the outrage is warranted. Male gaze is totally a thing, and it's really messed up.

And second, there's really no reason not to change it. The Daredevil movie wouldn't have been any better if Elektra's costume had been more comic-accurate, and really her costume in the comics is kind of ridiculous. It certainly doesn't add anything to the story, it's just eye candy. It's 2014, eye candy shouldn't be a priority in storytelling.

The world is changing, and media is changing with it. Elektra wearing panes wasn't the end of the world. It wasn't the end of anything. It was just pants. I thought it was an improvement, her original outfit is pretty hard to take seriously.