Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 7

[Silvermoon]

The Ep. 11 "reveal" did manage to confirm a few things. Coulson is definitely not human. The jury is still out on if he ever *was* human. Clues point towards an alien origin (space imagery; the "III" code for Earth in that chalkboard diagram). We found out that the Tahiti memory is just an implant. We found out that he was dead for days, and his memory "adjusted." We found out that he became a "thing" during the procedure.

Still opens more doors than it closes, but at least we're able to rule out a lot of theories now, and focus on some likelier ones. Not a complete reveal, but it's pointing us in the right direction instead of just wild-ass shots in the dark now.

IMO, the episode did not confirm he's 'definitely not human'. I think whether he is or not is still left open (including the "why" Fury felt the need to go to such lengths)

 

[Dark Raven]

But I think everyone knew that Coulson was dead for more than just a few minutes, and that the Tahiti memories were implanted. Did anyone really think he went on vacation to Tahiti to recover? So the show revealed nothing there really except for what we already suspected.

It's like Ming Na hyping it up that the show will reveal something big about her, and all it turns out to be is that she's not a happy person who doesn't really wish to talk about her past. No kidding!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It's like Ming Na hyping it up that the show will reveal something big about her, and all it turns out to be is that she's not a happy person who doesn't really wish to talk about her past. No kidding!

She can brood and glare at you in 16 languages.

 

[cherokeesam]

IMO, the episode did not confirm he's 'definitely not human'. I think whether he is or not is still left open (including the "why" Fury felt the need to go to such lengths)

Pretty sure it did.

"You were dead for....days."
Coulson: "That's impossible."
"It should be."
"Fury moved heaven and earth."
"The trauma you'd endured was...(pause; swallow)...ungodly."
"After what you'd been through, we wanted to restore....the man you had once been."
"We didn't want you to be that....thing."
Coulson: "What had I become, doctor? Tell me."

The doctor is most definitely talking about, and to, someone who was *once* human, but is no longer. He's being stark (heh) and direct with Coulson, not metaphorical.

 

[Silvermoon]

Pretty sure it did.

"You were dead for....days."
Coulson: "That's impossible."
"It should be."
"Fury moved heaven and earth."
"The trauma you'd endured was...(pause; swallow)...ungodly."
"After what you'd been through, we wanted to restore....the man you had once been."
"We didn't want you to be that....thing."
Coulson: "What had I become, doctor? Tell me."

The doctor is most definitely talking about, and to, someone who was *once* human, but is no longer. He's being stark (heh) and direct with Coulson, not metaphorical.

*shrugs shoulders* difference of opinion then, you don't think there's room for the doctor to be metaphorical in what he was saying, I think there is. We'll just have to wait and see how it really ends up playing out.

 

[Dark Raven]

Pretty sure it did.

"You were dead for....days."
Coulson: "That's impossible."
"It should be."
"Fury moved heaven and earth."
"The trauma you'd endured was...(pause; swallow)...ungodly."
"After what you'd been through, we wanted to restore....the man you had once been."
"We didn't want you to be that....thing."
Coulson: "What had I become, doctor? Tell me."

The doctor is most definitely talking about, and to, someone who was *once* human, but is no longer. He's being stark (heh) and direct with Coulson, not metaphorical.

Well if someone were talking to Banner, and discussing his life pre-Hulk and post-Hulk, he might talk about the man he once was and the thing he's now become. Doesn't mean he's not human now.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think when you're a slightly alive human with your brain exposed screaming in agony with a robot spider attached to your head.... You can easily be called a "thing" or "monster"

 

[Dark Raven]

I think when you're a slightly alive human with your brain exposed screaming in agony with a robot spider attached to your head.... You can easily be called a "thing" or "monster"

Same with if a person who was once considered a decent human being changes vastly in personality and becomes a mass murderer/ serial killer. You might talk about the man he used to be and the thing that he had become.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Same with if a person who was once considered a decent human being changes vastly in personality and becomes a mass murderer/ serial killer. You might talk about the man he used to be and the thing that he had become.

Exactly

 

[Silvermoon]

I think when you're a slightly alive human with your brain exposed screaming in agony with a robot spider attached to your head.... You can easily be called a "thing" or "monster"

Same with if a person who was once considered a decent human being changes vastly in personality and becomes a mass murderer/ serial killer. You might talk about the man he used to be and the thing that he had become.

Agreed, that's the way I take the "thing" comment as well

 

[Xeno]

I think when you're a slightly alive human with your brain exposed screaming in agony with a robot spider attached to your head.... You can easily be called a "thing" or "monster"

Anybody who would call another human being a "thing" or a "monster" because they were subjected to inhuman medical procedures that amounted to torture is a "thing" or "monster" themselves. A decent person would not use a term like that towards someone who was grievously hurt and screamed in pain, exposed brain, science fiction-like "death" or not. You're reaching badly to make your case.

 

[Dark Raven]

In an episode of "The Incredible Hulk" (I think it was Season 2 or 3 - "The Psychic"), David Banner is on the verge of committing suicide, because he believes he (as the Hulk) is responsible for the death of a teenager. He says that the real tragedy isn't so much that he's turns into this creature, but rather the man he's become (ie one who is constantly on the run, can't be close to anybody, forever filled with regret and loneliness etc).

He could easily have expressed it in terms of the man he once was and the thing he had become.

 

[The Ironstar]

To go along with:

James Rhodes/War Machine/Iron Patriot:

Falcon:

Nick Fury (Film Version):

Heimdall (Film Version):

Gabe Jones:

and coming soon:

Luke Cage:

Likely to happen:

Black Panther:

All the brothers team-up movie to battle the 'Sons of the Serpent'

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2055716.html

 

[Xeno]

In an episode of "The Incredible Hulk" (I think it was Season 2 or 3 - "The Psychic"), David Banner is on the verge of committing suicide, because he believes he (as the Hulk) is responsible for the death of a teenager. He says that the real tragedy isn't so much that he's turns into this creature, but rather the man he's become (ie one who is constantly on the run, can't be close to anybody, forever filled with regret and loneliness etc).

He could easily have expressed it in terms of the man he once was and the thing he had become.

A person talking about themselves in that way makes sense, but a medical professional doing the same doesn't, unless something drastic happened to the patient. All Dr. Streiten referred to was Coulson's emotional state after he made the "thing" remark, that the agent "lost the will to live." Calling a depressed person a "thing" is way out of bounds, which is why some of us surmised that the doctor was referring to something else about Coulson. Otherwise it makes no sense.

 

[Endeavor]

All the brothers team-up movie to battle the 'Sons of the Serpent'

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2055716.html

Who's the drama queen with a bird on his chest?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Who's the drama queen with a bird on his chest?

Nighthawk

 

[cherokeesam]

A person talking about themselves in that way makes sense, but a medical professional doing the same doesn't, unless something drastic happened to the patient. All Dr. Streiten referred to was Coulson's emotional state after he made the "thing" remark, that the agent "lost the will to live." Calling a depressed person a "thing" is way out of bounds, which is why some of us surmised that the doctor was referring to something else about Coulson. Otherwise it makes no sense.

Absolutely.

The people who want Streiten's comments to be metaphorical rather than literal are grasping at straws here. Streiten is a SHIELD surgeon. He's likely seen a good deal of strange things, since that's in SHIELD's wheelhouse. They deal with super powers. The supernatural. Aliens. Monsters. Psychics. Mad scientists. The whole gamut. But what Coulson became, Streiten has no vocabulary for.....that's pretty damn scary for a top SHIELD doctor.

 

[Endeavor]

...Aliens. Monsters. Psychics...

no such thing as psychics in the MCU, remember?
not yet anyway

 

[Endeavor]

Nighthawk

thank you kind sir

 

[cph9fa]

no such thing as psychics in the MCU, remember?
not yet anyway

Until they discover that Skye is one...

 

[Endeavor]

Skye is an alien dragon

 

[TRM]

LOL I actually believe Killian is Fin Fang Foom deep down and will shape-shift later... Scorch said "you have to pierce a person's outer shell to know their true character". The name one is given/the secret identity name doesn't make the person the "real" comic book counterpart, their true character...The alter-ego has to be an actual "part" of the psyche for that character to contain the spirit/destiny of a comic book character in this universe. Coulson said oh no they gave him a name, about Scorch...That wasn't real Scorch, he was branded as Scorch by the villains. it wasn't a part of him yet, ppl rolled their eyes at the name, although he said it was "growing" on him, he wasn't the real comic book Scorch when he died...

Rhodey subtly rejected the name he was re-branded with, even tho he made up excuses "WarmachineRoxx" is still his password, Tony thinks the Warmachine name is better, so we'll see Rhodey go back to War Machine. Raina manipulated Scorch's mind by re-branding him, she made him think of himself a new person. The villains gave Peterson his new name, it isn't one he creates for himself, they re-brand him with it..However, it becomes a part of him, like Iron Man is "a part" of Tony...He becomes the real character, he accepts and fulfills the spirit/destiny attached to the superego...A.R.M.O.R. and Scarlett Witch would know more about this...There could be something deep down in the genetic memory of "Killian the Great", a descendant of Alexander the Great...and maybe Skye...

10 rings is ancient in origin, Killian stole their name/image and some of their symbols for a purpose, created the Mandarin idea in his mind...The Dragon symbols came from Killian, and the dragon tattoo he put on himself. Everything changed when Thor's hammer fell, Norse mythology turned out to be real.
The legends of Dragons once existing on Earth in the ancient past were also true...Killian threw subtlety out the window, and started completely believing in some of the legends that the real 10 rings group held, he wanted to draw them out... Real 10 rings group has deeply held mythical beliefs, that come from Asia, Persia, India, etc. Hydra and the group who were after the staff have long-held beliefs about Norse and Greek mythology. Red Skull believed Hydras once existed. Red Skull was obsessed with mythology, and looked for objects of mythic origin everywhere, while Hitler looked for trinkets in the desert...The Zodiac Key is one object a Hydra cell that operated under the name Zodiac is after...Killian was sick of false faces already in IM3..

Skye mentions the Thor myths were kinda real, so there's no telling how many of our other myths were based on things of Alien origin...The dragons from myth were on Earth at one point in the ancient past, but only the 10 rings group knew where to find the remains of one in a certain valley in china, and Mandarin has not yet tracked it down, had to co-opt the 10 rings group for a much more sinister purpose attached to the Dragon tattoo idea, and why Killian chose that symbol. Killian felt the need to brand himself with it... People often decorate their outer space in a way that reflects the inside, Killian's brain accidentally showed us a "live feed" of the map of the universe, somewhere among those stars is where the Dragon hiding inside Killian's mind really comes from...Killian breathed fire, Rhodey was surprised, but it's because he secretly represents the Dragon, more than Mandarin...Killian/The Dragon created the Mandarin character, and controlled his mind all along, created him like in the comics, so it's not a lie that at this point it was him all along...the Mandarin name is now growing on Trevor. It'll be a while before their full destinies develop in this universe where Destiny is the Nemesis of Infinity, the cosmic entity known as Nemesis claims to have created the infinity stones..Trevor and Killian are still where Tony was in IM1. They're saying I am Mandarin in a superficial way. It will take a few movies before Mandarin is actually "a part" of one of them, and someone can claim I am the Mandarin again, like how Tony actually recognized Iron Man as a part of his mind in IM3. Trevor likes the attention, he wants to be seen like any actor would, he doesn't want to be "anonymous". His ego is the true match for Tony, who thinks "he's the best". Ppl in the prison still sometimes call him the Mandarin. The name is growing on him, not Killian...People will have to be patient to see a fully realized Mandarin with all the real rings alongside The Dragon. The Dragon inside Killian's mind has led him to this point by then...

Maybe deep down inside Skye is a shape-shifting dragon, and they never should have let her on the team. A shape-shifting relative of Killian's, who was found near where Foom crashed in this dimension..Skye said the Centipede name seems harmless enough. killian told her to use the Skye name, and helped create her character. The form of a human child she took after Shield discovered her, and her human form, is a front so the humans don't get suspicious. Her whole life she's been an alien shapeshifting dragon from space from Foom's species/Killian's family.
Could be cool/unexpected if Skye turns out to be a villain instead of a hero....

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Skye is the spawn of Surtur, full of power, and the natural source of the power seen in Extremis.

Ok I have no idea. But my guess would be she's of Asgardian decent, banished to Midgard because she's half human. That's just another reason Odin rejected Thor and Jane's love.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Anybody who would call another human being a "thing" or a "monster" because they were subjected to inhuman medical procedures that amounted to torture is a "thing" or "monster" themselves. A decent person would not use a term like that towards someone who was grievously hurt and screamed in pain, exposed brain, science fiction-like "death" or not. You're reaching badly to make your case.

i think it's completely dependent on the situation... i feel like what was done to Coulson was so horrible, and so monstrous.. that he was no longer Coulson... and had become a "thing" something far past what human beings should ever be subjected to.

 

[Endeavor]

...
Maybe deep down inside Skye is a shape-shifting dragon...

I can't take credit for the idea. It was xeno who suggested it.