BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 104

[matt47]

Who blinking knows aye

 

[Naked Shia]

Yes, however when Superman is weakened it seems more like a scary big deal.

you know, the more I think about it, the harder it is to think of a hero who would really give up

 

[Wise]

you know, the more I think about it, the harder it is to think of a hero who would really give up

Raimi's Spiderman for like a day... Schumacher's Batman for five minutes.... Nolan's Batman... for almost A DECADE.

Nolan's seems the worst to me because he gave up for 8 years. I know Nolan wanted the third movie to be like Miller's TDKR, but in that book Batman isn't Batman because the govt. basically threatens to expose or kill him if he doesn't retire. Nolan's Batman retires because his friendzone crush dies. Comic Batman loses Robins on the reg. A dead girlfriend is basically a normal Tuesday for Bruce.

 

[AnneFan]

you know, the more I think about it, the harder it is to think of a hero who would really give up

I'm not saying Superman gives up though. It's just usually a bigger deal when he's under attack, because it can be life threatening and unexpected for him. Like when exposed to kryptonite, he can barely move and is in great pain.

 

[Naked Shia]

Raimi's Spiderman for like a day... Schumacher's Batman for five minutes.... Nolan's Batman... for almost A DECADE.

Nolan's seems the worst to me because he gave up for 8 years. I know Nolan wanted the third movie to be like Miller's TDKR, but in that book Batman isn't Batman because the govt. basically threatens to expose or kill him if he doesn't retire. Nolan's Batman retires because his friendzone crush dies. Comic Batman loses Robins on the reg. A dead girlfriend is basically a normal Tuesday for Bruce.

he didn't give up, though, since there was no use for him.

But I'm more talking about someone who give up a fight. "this dude beat me. I'm neve fighting again". And he never does.

 

[BatLobster]

Every time someone wrongly states that Bruce retired because of Rachel, somewhere a bat loses its wings.

 

[Wise]

he didn't give up, though, since there was no use for him.

But I'm more talking about someone who give up a fight. "this dude beat me. I'm neve fighting again". And he never does.

There is always use for Batman. We clearly saw that there was still crime in Gotham in spite of the Harvey Dent act. That law only banned organised crime.

Also if you want to read a great story about the DC heroes giving up read "The Super Seven".

 

[craigdbfan]

While that wasn't the only reason BatLobster you can't completely say that wasn't one of the main contributing factors. In fact the whole thing really revolves around his obsession around Rachel and Dent as a couple and you see him use both his powers as Batman and Wayne to try and lure Rachel back and hindering Dent's progress in that relationship wherever he could. He was trying to make quick work of what was left of crime in Gotham and pass on the "mantel" on to Dent so he could have some chance at rekindling his own relationship with Rachel while he left Dent with the mess he promised to undertake. He never expected the Joker would exploit this but he made it too obvious as Batman that he cared for Rachel even though the Joker didn't know he was Wayne. His whole approach in TDK was messy due to it being clouded by obsession. I think that's a huge part of the movie people miss.

That said he feels incredibly guilty for the whole thing and it makes his "retirement" entirely understandable for me in TDKR. In that regard Nolan did the absolutely right thing for TDKR. Had he not done that it would have undermined an important characteristic of Wayne and that's regret and awareness and thankfully he was regretful over the events from TDK and having him retire and go into 8 years of mourning was definitely the right move. The failure of the energy project also added to that but I do feel the former is the bigger reason.

Alright I'm done with that. Dammit TDKT always interjecting everywhere!

 

[GreenKToo]

W.B. should have released the con teaser. Yea, I know it was for the con peps only but the anticipation for BvsS would have been even bigger ( if possible ) by going ahead and releasing it.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I want to see a cape shot for Batman, like the one Superman had after his first bout with Zod gang in Man of Steel

 

[GreenKToo]

I can't demand it of course but for the love of jeebeeus can we finally get a proper shirt rip??
puuuurty pleeease.....

 

[michael1975]

While that wasn't the only reason BatLobster you can't completely say that wasn't one of the main contributing factors. In fact the whole thing really revolves around his obsession around Rachel and Dent as a couple and you see him use both his powers as Batman and Wayne to try and lure Rachel back and hindering Dent's progress in that relationship wherever he could. He was trying to make quick work of what was left of crime in Gotham and pass on the "mantel" on to Dent so he could have some chance at rekindling his own relationship with Rachel while he left Dent with the mess he promised to undertake. He never expected the Joker would exploit this but he made it too obvious as Batman that he cared for Rachel even though the Joker didn't know he was Wayne. His whole approach in TDK was messy due to it being clouded by obsession. I think that's a huge part of the movie people miss.

That said he feels incredibly guilty for the whole thing and it makes his "retirement" entirely understandable for me in TDKR. In that regard Nolan did the absolutely right thing for TDKR. Had he not done that it would have undermined an important characteristic of Wayne and that's regret and awareness and thankfully he was regretful over the events from TDK and having him retire and go into 8 years of mourning was definitely the right move. The failure of the energy project also added to that but I do feel the former is the bigger reason.

Alright I'm done with that. Dammit TDKT always interjecting everywhere!

What you said is very well thought out. The problem is that it that it is a direct contradiction to the comics. He would never cease to be Batman because he lost some one he loved. If anything it would drive him even more.

I hated The Dark Knight Rises. I hated that he just walked away from being Batman. It was like he forgot the reason he became Batman in the first place. The Death of Rachel; the fall of Harvey Dent shouldn't have sent him running to Wayne Manor where he holds up for 8 years crying over the death of Rachel. It would made him realize the city needs Batman. It would fueled his rage and quest for justice.

Batman was forged in pain and suffering. When he suffers a loss or a defeat he doesn't fall and give up. He learns from his mistakes and is driven even further in his role of being Batman. Goyer and Nolan ignored this and in so doing so they dishonored the comic book. If there where never a Batman comic book The Dark Knight Rises would been a great movie. But the comics do exist and so by alter what I consider to be key aspect to the character the lost sight of the comic book and the character.

They should remain true to the character but they didn't.

 

[Naked Shia]

What you said is very well thought out. The problem is that it that it is a direct contradiction to the comics. He would never cease to be Batman because he lost some one he loved. If anything it would drive him even more.

I hated The Dark Knight Rises. I hated that he just walked away from being Batman. It was like he forgot the reason he became Batman in the first place. The Death of Rachel; the fall of Harvey Dent shouldn't have sent him running to Wayne Manor where he holds up for 8 years crying over the death of Rachel. It would made him realize the city needs Batman. It would fueled his rage and quest for justice.

Batman was forged in pain and suffering. When he suffers a loss or a defeat he doesn't fall and give up. He learns from his mistakes and is driven even further in his role of being Batman. Goyer and Nolan ignored this and in so doing so they dishonored the comic book. If there where never a Batman comic book The Dark Knight Rises would been a great movie. But the comics do exist and so by alter what I consider to be key aspect to the character the lost sight of the comic book and the character.

They should remain true to the character but they didn't.

what comics? which ones? The batman from earth 2 pre crisis stopped being batman after his wife was killed.

Dishonored the comic book? which one?

There sin't ONE definitive take on batman. There are several. Nolan's is one of them. And not only is it valid, but it's also a great one, with a clear beginning, a clear ending, and the legacy theme that is so important in the mythos.

They definitely stay true to the character: he did dressed as a giant bat to fight crime because his parents were murdered in front of him.

 

[Wise]

What you said is very well thought out. The problem is that it that it is a direct contradiction to the comics. He would never cease to be Batman because he lost some one he loved. If anything it would drive him even more.

I hated The Dark Knight Rises. I hated that he just walked away from being Batman. It was like he forgot the reason he became Batman in the first place. The Death of Rachel; the fall of Harvey Dent shouldn't have sent him running to Wayne Manor where he holds up for 8 years crying over the death of Rachel. It would made him realize the city needs Batman. It would fueled his rage and quest for justice.

Batman was forged in pain and suffering. When he suffers a loss or a defeat he doesn't fall and give up. He learns from his mistakes and is driven even further in his role of being Batman. Goyer and Nolan ignored this and in so doing so they dishonored the comic book. If there where never a Batman comic book The Dark Knight Rises would been a great movie. But the comics do exist and so by alter what I consider to be key aspect to the character the lost sight of the comic book and the character.

They should remain true to the character but they didn't.

Pretty much how I felt. Love Batman Begins and Dark Knight, but I couldn't forgive Rises for the 8 Year retirement. Batman doesn't retire until he physically cannot be Batman anymore, or until the Government comes down hard on him.

 

[Naked Shia]

there are several instances, in several comics, in animated series, etc, where he does stop being batman. It's obvious the golden age batman wasn't planning to do that all his life.

Not to mention how it made sense in the context of the trilogy.

You may not like it. But saying it's not true to the comics doesn't make any sense.

 

[Pickleweasel]

W.B. should have released the con teaser. Yea, I know it was for the con peps only but the anticipation for BvsS would have been even bigger ( if possible ) by going ahead and releasing it.

For like 3 days, then it would go back to normal. No need for that a year and a half away

 

[TheNextNolan22]

W.B. should have released the con teaser. Yea, I know it was for the con peps only but the anticipation for BvsS would have been even bigger ( if possible ) by going ahead and releasing it.

I would prefer them not release it.

 

[Wise]

Not much point in releasing it anyhow. Everyone saw (Albeit crappy quality) it thanks to the brave souls who bootlegged it.

 

[Jumpman]

Pretty much how I felt. Love Batman Begins and Dark Knight, but I couldn't forgive Rises for the 8 Year retirement. Batman doesn't retire until he physically cannot be Batman anymore, or until the Government comes down hard on him.

You have to hate Batman Begins because that film set up the idea that he wasn't going to be Batman forever. So, him being gone for 8 years falls right in line with his overall plan from the very get go in Batman Begins.

He knew that the Batman was not what Gotham needed. It was suppose to be the spark to get Gotham into action. Dent was the action, hence the reason he tries to pass to him in the Dark Knight.

This was always Bruce's plan.

 

[Naked Shia]

Exactly. It's consistent with what the trilogy has been saying since the beginning.

 

[Steamteck]

Every time someone wrongly states that Bruce retired because of Rachel, somewhere a bat loses its wings.

As long as its a Nolan bat., I'm good with that.

 

[Steamteck]

You have to hate Batman Begins because that film set up the idea that he wasn't going to be Batman forever. So, him being gone for 8 years falls right in line with his overall plan from the very get go in Batman Begins.

He knew that the Batman was not what Gotham needed. It was suppose to be the spark to get Gotham into action. Dent was the action, hence the reason he tries to pass to him in the Dark Knight.

This was always Bruce's plan.

If the whole Dent thing flew with me at all. I might buy that.

 

[shauner111]

Raimi's Spiderman for like a day... Schumacher's Batman for five minutes.... Nolan's Batman... for almost A DECADE.

Nolan's seems the worst to me because he gave up for 8 years. I know Nolan wanted the third movie to be like Miller's TDKR, but in that book Batman isn't Batman because the govt. basically threatens to expose or kill him if he doesn't retire. Nolan's Batman retires because his friendzone crush dies. Comic Batman loses Robins on the reg. A dead girlfriend is basically a normal Tuesday for Bruce.

Another person added to my list of people who don't pay attention to movies. No, there's not 1 percent of Nolans Bruce that retired because of Rachel. Try paying attention next time.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Batman retired in Nolan bc of the Dent Act ended crime.

Also **** Goyer, so happy Terrio is writing.

http://www.mediabee715.com/411639518/2253270/posting/my-interview-with-justice-league-s-new-hero

''Chris Terrio who is writing the script is very involved with his actors. '' - RF.

 

[batmanao23]

Yeah, Goyer's currently doing this

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10...rypton/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter