BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 115

[The Batman]

Keaton still, IMO, has the best onscreen Batman persona. A badass, modern version of Early Kane/Finger Batman.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Keaton still, IMO, has the best onscreen Batman persona. A badass, modern version of Early Kane/Finger Batman.

Agreed.

 

[JasonBourne]

Yup, Keaton for me was awesome. Couldn't see him as a billionaire playboy type, but definitely the brooding, tortured and haunted soul that Wayne/Batman is meant to be.

I can't recall him saying something similar to Bale about buying the hotel and new pool policy etc. I don't think that would suit him.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Yup, Keaton for me was awesome. Couldn't see him as a billionaire playboy type, but definitely the brooding, tortured and haunted soul that Wayne/Batman is meant to be.

I can't recall him saying something similar to Bale about buying the hotel and new pool policy etc. I don't think that would suit him.

Frankly, that felt a little too far-fetched and would have felt more at home in an Iron Man movie.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yup, Keaton for me was awesome. Couldn't see him as a billionaire playboy type, but definitely the brooding, tortured and haunted soul that Wayne/Batman is meant to be.

 

[shauner111]

Keaton still, IMO, has the best onscreen Batman persona. A badass, modern version of Early Kane/Finger Batman.

Great description. He really was that in a nutshell. He nailed it.

To be fair, i think his killing in Batman Returns was heavier. He was doing it from the get-go, and smiling while he did it. And getting his ass kicked by Catwoman isn't very Batman is it? At least his killing in 89' happened toward the end, so i see it as a temporary crazy phase that he went through where he just lost it after finding out Joker killed his mom and dad.

 

[shauner111]

Yes it makes for a cool shot. But why is Bruce Wayne, completely active as Batman, waiting in the dark in his mansion waiting to be "called to work"? Shouldn't he be out on the streets already going after criminals. And those massive lights in his backyard won't cause any suspicion...lol. Stupid movie. 89' kills it.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I... guess?

 

[Wise]

Yes it makes for a cool shot. But why is Bruce Wayne, completely active as Batman, waiting in the dark in his mansion waiting to be "called to work"? Shouldn't he be out on the streets already going after criminals. And those massive lights in his backyard won't cause any suspicion...lol. Stupid movie. 89' kills it.

Ha yeah I remember thinking that as a kid when i watched Returns.

"So do all the Wayne manor landscape gardeners know that Bruce is Batman?"

 

[Whiskey Tango]

What gardeners? The trees are all dead.

 

[Wise]

To be honest looking back Batman Returns is such a cheesy mess of non-sensical plots and ridiculously over the top characters.

I think Kevin Smith is absolutely right when he points out that Burton was not at all interested in the Batman character or telling a Batman story. He just wanted to make a movie about the Penguin and Catwoman.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I don't think many would argue Batman Returns as being the best Keaton as Batman film

 

[jaymes_e06]

To be honest looking back Batman Returns is such a cheesy mess of non-sensical plots and ridiculously over the top characters.

I think Kevin Smith is absolutely right when he points out that Burton was not at all interested in the Batman character or telling a Batman story. He just wanted to make a movie about the Penguin and Catwoman.

That seems contradictory.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

edit: I'm confused.

 

[Wise]

I don't think many would argue Batman Returns as being the best Keaton as Batman film

Really?

Personally I love Batman 89, the German Expressionist feel is great, it's early enough in Burton's career that he hasn't stamped his tacky gothic style all over it.

Batman Returns is a Burton style over substance-fest IMO. Everything from the Batman 66esque Penguins with missles on their back, to the ridiculously silly Catwoman origin and the nonsensical Penguin mayoral election campaign plotline. That and it hardly even features Batman. He's like a supporting character in the Penguin show.

 

[Wise]

That seems contradictory.

How is it contradictory? Burton was more interested in telling the villains story than he was Batman's.

Plus I really hate the production design in Batman Returns. The city just looks so fake. 89 Batman's Gotham was also shot on a set, but it was at least set dressed and populated by enough extras to make it appear to be a real city.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

How is it contradictory? Burton was more interested in telling the villains story than he was Batman's.

Plus I really hate the production design in Batman Returns. The city just looks so fake. 89 Batman's Gotham was also shot on a set, but it was at least set dressed and populated by enough extras to make it appear to be a real city.

I've never seen anyone suggest Batman Returns as being better than Batman 89' before.

 

[Jekecy]

To be fair, i think his killing in Batman Returns was heavier. He was doing it from the get-go, and smiling while he did it. And getting his ass kicked by Catwoman isn't very Batman is it? At least his killing in 89' happened toward the end, so i see it as a temporary crazy phase that he went through where he just lost it after finding out Joker killed his mom and dad.

I think a lot of people have missed out on the fact that Selina was the one who pushed him towards finding his own humanity again. In the third act he weirdly aims to only jail Max when he could have easily killed him on the spot. But it starts to make sense when he pleads with Selina to come to "his side" and leave the darkness behind.

Unfortunately it ends with him alone, but you get the sense from his interaction with Alfred that he's on his way to finding peace.

 

[AnneFan]

B89 is the iconic one, but I prefer BR - the interesting one.

 

[shauner111]

What gardeners? The trees are all dead.

So i guess you think it's winter all year round?

 

[Boom]

Keaton still, IMO, has the best onscreen Batman persona. A badass, modern version of Early Kane/Finger Batman.

Absolutely.

I can't remember who said this, but it's an observation that stuck with me. Both Keaton and Bale recognized the absurdity of putting on that costume. But whereas Keaton embraced it, Bale fought against it. The only way it made sense for Bale to put on this costume was to put anger into everything. Screaming in criminals faces, always talking in a throaty growl. But for me, that only ended up making it even more absurd - simply comical at times. Keaton internalized. So you got the icy stare and the calm whisper of someone in control. He didn't compensate for the inherent camp nature of the suit by projecting a large personality over it ("People will only take me seriously in this thing I'm in angry all the time."). In a way, Keaton's complete disregard for the silliness of this thing on-screen helped make it seem less silly. And frankly, his particular result worked better for me.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

So i guess you think it's winter all year round?

Stop being weird.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Batfleck already surpassed both of them when it comes to 'look' wise.

 

[Mulholland-Jr]

Both have some cool moments and charming quirks, but I don't think either of them are good Batman movies. Burton only liked the characters for superficial reasons and it shows.

 

[AnneFan]

Batfleck already surpassed both of them when it comes to 'look' wise.

Dat iz kalled azthetiks, mane.