BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 115

[NoLaNitE007]

BReturns had a shot to better than B89....but it failed unfortunately. I couldn't stand that Gotham just looked to fake and was on obvious indoor studio set design. Ugh.

The characterization of Penguin was just a bit warped also.

 

[Lily Adler]

I'll see all you BR haters in hell.

 

[BravoNolanILuvU]

Dat BatFleck Batsuit be on dat dere celltech.

 

[Herolee10]

If you could have a film back then where you had the 89 version of Gotham used in a film with Nicholsan's Joker and Michelle's Catwoman (as opposed to Kim's Vicki) while using Batman's suit from Returns, then it would have been a perfect Batman film when it comes to Burton's touch on it.

 

[Rapunzel]

Frankly, that felt a little too far-fetched and would have felt more at home in an Iron Man movie.

Totally this. Bale's Bruce too much of an ass in his persona.

 

[Broseph44]

I'll see all you BR haters in hell.

Don't worry my friend, I love BR and of the Burton ones prefer it to Batman.

 

[Kane52630]

I'll see all you BR haters in hell.

 

[Snakewise]

I've never seen anyone suggest Batman Returns as being better than Batman 89' before.

Well, it's got a better RT score at least...

Batman - 72%, 6.6/10, 67 reviews
Returns - 81%, 6.7/10, 67 reviews.

I like BR more, and I know it's only a small amount of reviews, but I was still surprised about that.

 

[Broseph44]

It's also a matter of opinion haha.

 

[I Am The Knight]

No kidding.

Personally I prefer BR.

 

[Wise]

Well, it's got a better RT score at least...

Batman - 72%, 6.6/10, 67 reviews
Returns - 81%, 6.7/10, 67 reviews.

I like BR more, and I know it's only a small amount of reviews, but I was still surprised about that.

This would imply that critics like superhero movies with the word 'Returns' in the title.

Superman Returns has a better score than MoS after all.

It does come down to personal taste though. Personally I think that apart from Batman 89 and Ed Wood, Tim Burton's entire filmography is trash.

 

[Raelis Shae]

I prefer Batman 89, but Batman Returns is ingrained in my brain...I can't believe I remember a lot of the dialogue from that film t:

 

[craigdbfan]

Absolutely.

I can't remember who said this, but it's an observation that stuck with me. Both Keaton and Bale recognized the absurdity of putting on that costume. But whereas Keaton embraced it, Bale fought against it. The only way it made sense for Bale to put on this costume was to put anger into everything. Screaming in criminals faces, always talking in a throaty growl. But for me, that only ended up making it even more absurd - simply comical at times. Keaton internalized. So you got the icy stare and the calm whisper of someone in control. He didn't compensate for the inherent camp nature of the suit by projecting a large personality over it ("People will only take me seriously in this thing I'm in angry all the time."). In a way, Keaton's complete disregard for the silliness of this thing on-screen helped make it seem less silly. And frankly, his particular result worked better for me.

That's a really good explanation there and one of the reasons why I do like his demeanor more as Batman at times.

That's why Bale was at his best as Batman when he didn't really talk. All his memorable Batman scenes to me are mainly when he's just doing the icy glare and non nonchalant apprehension/ass kicking of criminals.

That's why I enjoyed Bale's performance as Batman best in BB. His voice in a good amount of the scenes is subdued (when he's talking to Rachel in the subway station). Subdued Batman beats loud spit propeller Batman any day of the week.

I think Batman screaming works but only in small doses. What we got in TDK and most of TDKR was a bit out of line. I still love him and probably still rank him over Keaton (based on his overall performance and presence) but if Bale's voice was somewhat more subdued and almost exactly like it was in that scene with Rachel in the subway scene than he would have won by a large margin.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Batman 89 feels like a Batman movie to me more. BR feels more like a Burton movie and the villains were just a bit too literal with their namesakes and actions. Catwoman is freakishly into cats and gets some weird cat healing thing after her fall. Rather than eluding to her as being a "cat burglar" it seemed like Burton thought going weirder would be cool. The Penguin also had to be turned into some freakish nature character that even eats whole raw fish like an animal. Gah

 

[Rapunzel]

My favorite scene in that film. Michelle going nuts was awesome.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I am not fond of Burton's version of Catwoman or Penguin. I feel like making Selina Kyle a meek secretary was way inferior to other versions of the character and randomly making her insane seems more than a bit sexist to me. She has less agency when she is just some randomly insane woman and not a cool calculating thief. I'm sick of the insane woman trope. I suppose the Penguin reinvention could have worked but not the way it was handled in the film.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I am not fond of Burton's version of Catwoman or Penguin. I feel like making Selina Kyle a meek secretary was way inferior to other versions of the character and randomly making her insane seems more than a bit sexist to me. She has less agency when she is just some randomly insane woman and not a cool calculating thief. I'm sick of the insane woman trope. I suppose the Penguin reinvention could have worked but not the way it was handled in the film.

I don't see how making her insane was sexist, but to me it just didn't work regardless. Making the penguin a manimal was over the top.

 

[matt47]

Batman 89 feels like a Batman movie to me more. BR feels more like a Burton movie and the villains were just a bit too literal with their namesakes and actions. Catwoman is freakishly into cats and gets some weird cat healing thing after her fall. Rather than eluding to her as being a "cat burglar" it seemed like Burton thought going weirder would be cool. The Penguin also had to be turned into some freakish nature character that even eats whole raw fish like an animal. Gah

It does feel more like a Batman movie, BUT it still wasn't a Batman movie, it was a villain movie. I was listening to Kevin Smith's commentary track on 89 and he kept stating that we hadn't seen Batman for ages and we really didn't

 

[Naked Shia]

I am not fond of Burton's version of Catwoman or Penguin. I feel like making Selina Kyle a meek secretary was way inferior to other versions of the character and randomly making her insane seems more than a bit sexist to me. She has less agency when she is just some randomly insane woman and not a cool calculating thief. I'm sick of the insane woman trope. I suppose the Penguin reinvention could have worked but not the way it was handled in the film.

She may have been over the top, but she wasn't insance. I think Burton's catwoman is the opposite of sexist. She's more in charge of what happens than both batman and the penguin. Only Max is kinda in charge oe everything, and she managed to steal that from him.

 

[Greens]

Batman Returns is the perfect Christmas movie.

 

[steve4991]

Dat BatFleck Batsuit be on dat dere celltech.

Didn't realize anyone on this forum was aware. Srs.

 

[Iceman]

I love both of Burton's Batman films. Batman, Joker and Catwoman were great for the time they came out.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I'll always have a soft spot for the burton films.

even though batman straight up kills people in those movies.... BAT OF MURDER!!!!!!

 

[Iceman]

And noone worried about it. Things were simpler back then. t:

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I'll see all you BR haters in hell.

We can torture them together, Libido.