BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 167

[KillerWolf]

Just curious, why are alla y'all so all-fired certain there has to be a so-called "physical" foe in this movie?

Well, common expectations when it comes to these films would be that there should be a punching bag for Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman fighting together. But, in truth, it is not something that's set in stone and they don't even have to fight together in the third act. I'd personally prefer there not being any physical foes of such extent.

 

[Binker]

I think it should be revealed that there is a big bad, so Superman and Batman will team up and fight against. Because really, we all know they'll shake hands and team up against the big bad (Luthor or him with someone else) and team up again for JL; who wants the final fight be between Bats and Supes? That's A fight, not the final one.

 

[KillerWolf]

True. But the way I see it, it doesn't necessarily require one singular superstrong character. There are criminals, henchmen and mercenaries that would be working for Luthor they could fight together.

 

[Binker]

Yeah, which is why I think Doomsday can work (though it takes away the Death/Return storyline for a Superman film), as well as Metallo. I'm just saying it cant be Bats and Supes as the main/final fight, given what it leads towards.

 

[The Sage]

I think Batman and Superman's showdown happens halfway into the film. Maybe instead of a big bad, there's a serious calamity orchestrated by Lex they have to stop.

 

[ozne99]

I think the biggest misconception of 'Man of Steel' is that Zod and Superman were actually fighting at the end of 'Man of Steel'. I watched an interview with Zack Snyder saying that the end fight wasn't a fight per-say, it was just a Kryptonian version of the children's game "Patty-cake." He really didn't want the the two to fight, but it just got out of hand because the Kryptonian way is much more advanced of that of Earth's. This was also an inexperienced Superman and at the end, he got the game mixed up with the Kryptonian "Rock, Paper, Scissor" and accidentally threw scissor and snapped Zods neck.

Man of Steel wasn't supposed to be violent at all. It happens.

Do you have a link to that interview? It sounds like a bunch of bs because I watched a fight.

 

[Superchan]

Let's pretend for a moment that the muscle in BvS is Doomsday: if this were to eliminate a possible Death/Return story in the Superman sequels, what sorts of stories could they possibly tell in Superman solo films?

I hope to god they'd never do a death of superman story (contrary to current rumors of Doomsday showing up and superman dying at the end of BVS) because the whole thing was a hollow gimmick to me (albeit entertaining at the time of it's release in 92).

There are so many great stories they can tell including a variation on 'red son' where brainiac comes to earth and eventually manipulates superman into taking over the planet, effectively 'bottling' it; this could act as a lead in for the second JL movie.
There is also Action#775 where a group of hyper-violent superhero type challenge superman's place in the world.
There are many other interesting stories like the 'world of new krypton' where superman finds himself in an unbottled city of hundred thousand kryptonians who are in tern headed for a major collision with earth.

Not to mention characters like Parasite, Bizzaro and Metallo (if he's not in BVS) could all carry a movie as the main villains - even if people tend to think of them as henchmen - if done right.

 

[Nemeres]

Let's pretend for a moment that the muscle in BvS is Doomsday: if this were to eliminate a possible Death/Return story in the Superman sequels, what sorts of stories could they possibly tell in Superman solo films?

A bigger problem that than I think is using two of his big ones, Darkseid and possibly Brainiac, for the JLs. Most of the other guys, Parasite, Metallo - mutated normal guys - mostly feel small potatoes to me. I'd like to see something with the Cadmus Project, the several Kryptonite types, Lana Lang, Bizarro... the idea of Bizarro, damaged Superman clones, rather than the classic Bizarro himself. And the Luthor as President storyline, I think that could be epic and super interesting.

 

[Juke Box Hero]

Well, they could always introduce Brainiac in a JL and finish him in a solo film, or vice versa.

 

[Tra-El]

Do you have a link to that interview? It sounds like a bunch of bs because I watched a fight.

It's on the Man of Steel bluray extras. When filming on the green screen, you can clearly see Cavill and Shannon clapping their hands together...not throwing punch's.

 

[WoodyROM]

I think Batman and Superman's showdown happens halfway into the film. Maybe instead of a big bad, there's a serious calamity orchestrated by Lex they have to stop.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Marvin]

I hope to god they'd never do a death of superman story (contrary to current rumors of Doomsday showing up and superman dying at the end of BVS) because the whole thing was a hollow gimmick to me (albeit entertaining at the time of it's release in 92).

Alot of events in comics such at that could retroactively be called 'gimmicks' from broken back batman to civil war to no more mutant stuff. Doesn't mean a great movie can't be made out of it.

There are so many great stories they can tell including a variation on 'red son' where brainiac comes to earth and eventually manipulates superman into taking over the planet, effectively 'bottling' it; this could act as a lead in for the second JL movie.

I can tell you right here and now:

There is also Action#775 where a group of hyper-violent superhero type challenge superman's place in the world.

I can tell you right here and right now:

I'll write wb hate mail for a year if they don't follow through on his most obvious premise.

 

[Sleiek]

Do you have a link to that interview? It sounds like a bunch of bs because I watched a fight.

LOL. Dude, he is just messing around..

 

[Iceman]

I think it should be revealed that there is a big bad, so Superman and Batman will team up and fight against. Because really, we all know they'll shake hands and team up against the big bad (Luthor or him with someone else) and team up again for JL; who wants the final fight be between Bats and Supes? That's A fight, not the final one.

Yeah if the final fight were Batman Vs Superman I don't think I'd find this film that interesting. I'm here for the team up at the end.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah if the final fight were Batman Vs Superman I don't think I'd find this film that interesting. I'm here for the team up at the end.

So you would find the same approach you see to all of these cross over stories more interesting than a different approach?
I tend to agree about the approach they should take but for very different reasons. I mean even avengers uses this safer approach in it's direction with it's constant infighting. Every time it happened in the animated series(from spidey to batman to ninjaturtle/powerRangers)...it's the same formula and you find it more interesting? I suppose I can see how but I imagine if they actually flipped the script I'd find that more interesting in that it's the first time it I'd ever see it happen.
Outside of the Arrow/Flash send off of course.

That being said, in the Cap v Ironman movie they may actually go for the big fight in the finale.

 

[Tra-El]

There is also Action#775 where a group of hyper-violent superhero type challenge superman's place in the world.

Take my money! I have a shrine set-up just for Action #775. The best single-issue of Superman:

Not to mention characters like Parasite, Bizzaro and Metallo

You know, I could totally see Parasite popping up as a left-field villain. I remember Goyer mentioning how he likes Parasite so a Super-underdog when it comes to villains popping up could be Parasite thrown into the mix.

 

[DOBSON10]

True. But the way I see it, it doesn't necessarily require one singular superstrong character. There are criminals, henchmen and mercenaries that would be working for Luthor they could fight together.

So a bunch of randoms that they can mop the floor with in 30 seconds? I'm sorry but I don't think that's more interesting than Doomsday, Metallo or some other muscle.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

If there is any kind of cliffhanger at end of BvS.....could be aquaman declaring war on the surface war because of the damage to the ocean

 

[Superchan]

Absolutely, 775 is superman's solo 'kingdom come' IMO, very similar concepts but in the issue superman didn't act like wimp and leave humanity, instead he stuck around and kicked the Elite's collective asses while proving a point.

Parasite could be an A list villain if handled right, I mean the guy can take away superman's powers and know his secret ID not to mention that he has this interesting horror film look about him.
While I wasn't a big fan of the Earth-one novels, I did like how they handled the parasite and how interesting of a character he can be when thematically juxtaposed with Kal (ultimate giver vs ultimate taker; never being able to be truly physically close to some one etc....).

A bigger problem that than I think is using two of his big ones, Darkseid and possibly Brainiac, for the JLs. Most of the other guys, Parasite, Metallo - mutated normal guys - mostly feel small potatoes to me. I'd like to see something with the Cadmus Project, the several Kryptonite types, Lana Lang, Bizarro... the idea of Bizarro, damaged Superman clones, rather than the classic Bizarro himself. And the Luthor as President storyline, I think that could be epic and super interesting.

Superman's rogues get a bad rep, yet the core ones likes lex, brainiac and Darkseid are all fantastic! So much so that they can trouble the JL and the DCU as a whole.

I wouldn't mind if they use Darkseid for JL since he's always been a DCU villain as much as he is a superman villain and just because Darkseid ends up in JL doesn't mean that can't keep his personal anamosity with superman subplot.
Brainiac is another case entirely, he's a Superman villain through and through but like I said before I wouldn't mind seeing him in a superman solo and then continue his storyline in the JL, since the JL animated proved that ol' brainy is more than powerful enough to trouble the DCU as a whole.

Cadmus could work quite well in the DCCU, infact they can use a variation of the cadmus arc in JL animated where Brainiac takes over lex and subtly alters his behavior all the while gaining more power by becoming prez and ruining superman's rep in the process.

 

[Marvin]

For all the bad rap I personally see superman rogues getting, the main ones sure do seem to be the biggest players when it come to dcu and jla and bruce timm.

 

[DOBSON10]

I think Superman's rouges are pretty good overall, not the best set there is but he has a couple really good ones. I'd say he has one of the 5 best rouges galleries for any individual hero.

 

[X Knight]

I think Batman and Superman's showdown happens halfway into the film. Maybe instead of a big bad, there's a serious calamity orchestrated by Lex they have to stop.

judging by the WW reveal poster, where it looks like she's standing amongst wreckage in flames and smoke, in addition to Batman standing up in said wreckage in one shot in the trailer, there could indeed be some kind of city wide devastation at the end, whether that's caused by a villain or some other calamity.

 

[jonathancrane]

I hope they do not adapt the Death of Superman storyline. To begin with, comic book deaths are novelties, and with DC trying to build up its filmverse, descending to a cheap ploy like killing off the character reeks of desperation. Further, the storyline itself was cheap, considering the premise had been done around 2-3 times beforehand, as Harlan Ellison pointed out in his show. Secondly, considering how the film is adapting elements from texts where Superman was portrayed in a villainous light (The Dark Knight Returns, with the signage and Snyder's outspoken love of the comic; the near identical Injustice: Gods Among Us font for the title,) killing him would be a further disservice. Look: we were given a film that had a super-grim tone and depicted a torn Superman. Whether we needed it is up for debate; but, we had that, and it's time to relax a little with the character.

Saying that always evokes the same primitive response: relaxed=Reeve films. That is far from the truth. It is not much to ask for a Superman who is a thoughtful defender (a la the Timmverse) or enlightened Sun God (Morrison's run.) Keeping the tormented hero shows a lack of imagination and understanding of the character. And resorting to the cheapest ploy in the book is another layer to that awful sandwich.

Thus, I am hoping they steer clear of adapting that storyline.

 

[KillerWolf]

So a bunch of randoms that they can mop the floor with in 30 seconds? I'm sorry but I don't think that's more interesting than Doomsday, Metallo or some other muscle.

Well, destruction porn is not interesting per se. It is merely fun and sort of required with blockbusters. Where I aim to seek "interesting" in this film is its storyline, which is the reason why I'd prefer a more story-driven film.

 

[Rapunzel]

I think lack of character deaths could separate DC from Marvel and counter the "too dark" complaints. I'd rather DC focus on thematic complexities instead of manufactured drama.

That being said, I still Death of Superman fitting in with the apparent themes of this film. We'll see.