Comics Amazing Harry Osborn

[Styleshift]

He's become WAY more interesting than Peter has lately.
..................anyone else feel this way?

If anything all they really did is suck out most of the responsibility Peter has with One More Day. Isn't that the main theme of the character? Harry makes it all the more noticeable now, at least to me. We've never had a character to compare peter to for years.

I'm also not understanding their theories about "aging" Peter, while Harry is able to have a buisness, a kid, two ex wives, a fiance, AND [blackout]become a super hero, even albeit *maybe* briefly.[/blackout].

Oh yeah, almost forgot..........Aren't they still the same age??

Like I'm 20 single in the military, and one of my best friends is 20 and married. Does that make him seem older? Does it age him? We both have a good deal of responsibility. So when he eventually pops a couple of Milhauser-babies out does that make me younger because I have no kids of my own?
Would this still apply if we were say, in our 40s?

I personally believe, regardless of how old we are or act, our friends whom we graduated with age us as well. The way they play with Harry makes them in their 30s while they try to sell Peter off as maybe early to mid 20s.

I think I brought this up before but no one really said anything. I'm just really interested in what people think. Is Harry more interesting than Peter now? Is this good or bad? Intentional or accidental? What do you guys think?

 

[JerseyJoker]

I don't get why people are still hung up over this whole make Spider-Man younger by not letting him be married thing.

The reason you can put so much of this on Harry, is because he is just a supporting character, he is not the reason (well maybe to some) people buy the book, mainly, you would think it is for Peter/Spidey.

Do i think taking the marriage away makes him more younger and easily to identify with (with myself being 23), no, but i also don't care anymore. It's just not worth still getting hung up with that issue like some (not naming you directly) still have.

I dont know, some reason i think Harry has gotten so much to do in his return is just not make his return unjust. They brought a major character back, dont let him fall into the background with new supporting cast, so these issues, help keep him standing out form the rest of the cast, atleast thats how i see it.

 

[mre]

I also don't care that Pete and MJ are not together anymore. My only issue is how it was done. But that's for another thread.
I do agree that Pete has kind of been the "5th business" of the comic book lately, where all the supporting characters have a lot going on.

 

[Themanofbat]

I've been enjoying Harry's return to the books...

And as I've mentioned in other threads... Peter needs to be single because the Spectre of Spider-Man will keep him from ever getting so close to be with a woman... and at the end of the day, that's what he wants... to share his life in a normal manner, but his relentless guilt over what happened to Uncle Ben is the driving force to his being Spider-Man; hence, keeping a distance between himself and those he loves.

It's a great dynamic...

 

[Donald Thomas]

Aloha,
I guess there is just no pleasing everyone. Go back a year and read some of the threads where people were complaining that Spider-Man's supporting cast was two dimensional and not fleshed out enoughNow we have people who think Peter is taking a back seat to Harry.The movies did a great deal to make Harry a top tier supporting character. I'm sure that was on the minds of Marvel when they decided to bring him back from the "dead". So many people were introduced to Harry as a result of the 3 movies that I'm sure new readers were kind of disappointed when they didn't see him in the comics.Just think, as many years as JJJ has been around, we are just now being introduced to his father!So for me, I'm fine with them fleshing out Spidey's new and old supporting cast.I think it gives the book as a whole greater depth. Peter Parker/Spider-Man is strong enough as a character that he can share some panel time with his supporting cast. Spidey's supporting cast along with his rogues gallery has always been one of his strongest features.
Spidey rules

 

[Styleshift]

I don't get why people are still hung up over this whole make Spider-Man younger by not letting him be married thing.

The reason you can put so much of this on Harry, is because he is just a supporting character, he is not the reason (well maybe to some) people buy the book, mainly, you would think it is for Peter/Spidey.

Do i think taking the marriage away makes him more younger and easily to identify with (with myself being 23), no, but i also don't care anymore. It's just not worth still getting hung up with that issue like some (not naming you directly) still have.

I dont know, some reason i think Harry has gotten so much to do in his return is just not make his return unjust. They brought a major character back, dont let him fall into the background with new supporting cast, so these issues, help keep him standing out form the rest of the cast, atleast thats how i see it.

I'm not as hung up over the marriage as I used to be either.
I feel I'm bringing up a completely new argument.
At this point I've accepted the change in the comics and I can see BND for what it is. I'm not complaining "OH NOES PETER CAN'T BE MARRIED!"

(That is pretty fun to say TMOB) If I were I wouldn't be buying and thus hypocritically supporting BND in sales.

But I just realized if they are going to make Peter seem younger and more relatable, they need to tone down how far his supporting cast (that's his age) goes. I am seriously more interested in what happens with Harry and finding out more about his 2nd wife. Anything can happen with him at this point. (except of course death but that's hardly any fun).

 

[Styleshift]

Aloha,
I guess there is just no pleasing everyone. Go back a year and read some of the threads where people were complaining that Spider-Man's supporting cast was two dimensional and not fleshed out enoughNow we have people who think Peter is taking a back seat to Harry.The movies did a great deal to make Harry a top tier supporting character. I'm sure that was on the minds of Marvel when they decided to bring him back from the "dead". So many people were introduced to Harry as a result of the 3 movies that I'm sure new readers were kind of disappointed when they didn't see him in the comics.Just think, as many years as JJJ has been around, we are just now being introduced to his father!So for me, I'm fine with them fleshing out Spidey's new and old supporting cast.I think it gives the book as a whole greater depth. Peter Parker/Spider-Man is strong enough as a character that he can share some panel time with his supporting cast. Spidey's supporting cast along with his rogues gallery has always been one of his strongest features.
Spidey rules

The movie is an Adaption, not the comics. They shouldn't be taking cues from it. I have alot of problems with the movies even more than the comics actually, (organic web shooters, no spidey jokes, and poor portrayal of Mj being the top of the list.) Speaking of spidey jokes, they better hurry before another character that jokes gets on the big screen and people start thinking oh! he's the funny superhero. Than it'll seem like Spidey is "copying" him if they ever decide to add that part to the character.

Anyways,

It's great that Peter's supporting cast has been fleshed out again, but there is such an imbalance in it. You can give me pie, but that doesn't mean it tastes good ya know? Than again, I wasn't one of the folks complaining about his supporting cast to begin with.

Mr. Negative is pretty interesting. JJJ sr. could prove some interesting stories.
Lily is a plot device not a character. Vin is annoying, we haven't seen much of Carlie to really care for her.

and Harry he actually has some forward progression here they can do anything with him without protecting him for the silver age era. He's rising to the challenge. I really like seeing the underdog come forward and take a stand.
Maybe thats why I'm enjoying him more than Peter lately.

I understand (and why) some of you guys love this stuff, but this reboot has been kind of lack luster.
It's a more back to basics approach to Peter than has been taken for along time, but you still have to admit there are plenty of problems within it.

Such as the flow of the series. It would be sooooo much better if they only stuck with one writer.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh...i agree....this isn't about the marriage....just the fact that Harry has the ability to have more happen to him while Peter is stuck in a box and can't progress with rules stuck to him now.

Thus, here on out, the supporting cast, including Aunt May, are the ones that can move on and experience some kind of growth (be interesting)while Pete (in BND world) is stuck in a regression where he cannot be "Aged" in any way, at all costs. But he also seems de-aged....not knowing how to use his spider-sense, can't have a relationship (and the one he did have NEVER happened) and they will not go anywhere either..etc.

So yeh, Harry is more interesting, because his character isn't saddled heavily with mandates.

 

[Styleshift]

Yeh...i agree....this isn't about the marriage....just the fact that Harry has the ability to have more happen to him while Peter is stuck in a box and can't progress with rules stuck to him now.

Thus, here on out, the supporting cast, including Aunt May, are the ones that can move on and experience some kind of growth (be interesting)while Pete (in BND world) is stuck in a regression where he cannot be "Aged" in any way, at all costs. But he also seems de-aged....not knowing how to use his spider-sense, can't have a relationship (and the one he did have NEVER happened) and they will not go anywhere either..etc.

So yeh, Harry is more interesting, because his character isn't saddled heavily with mandates.

That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Especially when the book is titled Spider-man and not Harry Osborn, a supporting character should never have more interesting plots than a main character. They should only supply a catalyst for interesting plots that affect the main character.

It's exactly why books like Invincible and the walking dead (Which is AWESOME BTW TMOB) are more appealing to me.

Sure they aren't saddled down by 600 issues, but the characters are allowed to grow. I think it's a better business decision to try to keep your core fans instead of making big alienating decisions. But I don't have a degree in business so I guess I wouldn't really know.

EDIT: I know some posters may feel like I complain alot, but the truth is I really really really want to enjoy Spider-man. He's my favorite character.
I mean, why should I have to enjoy other characters so much more? Even Captain America is having a better run than Spidey now, and I've always thought he was a little on the lame side.

 

[The Bruce]

Speaking of Mr. Negative - doesn't he have a solo book out right now? How is it?

 

[Themanofbat]

First issue came out... it was lots of fun.

 

[Themanofbat]

I don't think Peter is "stuck in a box"... you can progress a character without necessarily making him "become old"... you just need good writers.

 

[JerseyJoker]

When has the issue of not aging Peter really been ... an issue? Because, unless we are talking about The Punisher, no character in comics that has been worth a damn has been aged since there introduction. In all reality, Bruce should of died by now (and not by a horribly written plot death), Spidey would be in his fifties, Capt, Iron Man, etc.. al would be senior citizens again.

It just seems this is an issue that people love to bring up for some reason, like it really matters at all.

 

[Themanofbat]

It's only become an issue with Peter since it's one of the main reasons JQ said that they dissolved the marriage...

I think that's just "target reason", because the real reason they dissolved the marriage was because Marvel has always wanted a single Spider-Man... a single Spider-Man just makes for better stories... and Peter's guilt-ridden drive to be Spider-Man will always come between his desire to be loved and have a family...

His sacrifice to be Spider-Man at the cost of Peter Parker's social life/standing is what makes this character so great... and that became somewhat limited when he was going home to a super-model...

 

[farmernudie]

Pete can have a social life...it just gets buggered. That's what makes his stories great.

The profession of his wife is pointless if a writer is free to write good stories, involving relationships, whether married or not married.

Take for example Invincible. Relationships and how being a superhero effects the relationship is written well there. And has been at times in Spidey too.

Currently, Aunt May can marry. So can Harry. Harry can divorce and have kids. So can others. They don't want Pete aged, is what THEY say, yet, everyone around Pete is getting married, divorcing, having kids, whathaveyou, and yet Pete is the only one who can't do any of this normal stuff made up of LIFE.

Pete is an EVERYMAN. Not a person who is allowed NO social life, so i have to respectfully disagree.

However, is this reboot, Pete is for the first time a NO-MAN. He cannot experience anything we do, or that his supporting cast does, good or bad. It will "Age" him they keep saying and said, to base this reboot to begin with. They said over and over...

1.) They wanted him de-aged
2.) They wanted to tell stories they couldn't tell before with him married

They are not meeting their OWN standards at all. Period.

Well...sorry, no they have de-aged him, and doped him down.

However, it only makes the other characters stand out more, and Pete stand out more, because of the huge descrepancy between everyone else living their lives, marrying and divorcing, having kids, etc....so, the stories about the other supporting cast only serve, imo, to make it abundantly clear, what a loser Pete is in this alternate history. He sticks out like a sore thumb....real people with real lives....and Pete who had a life, but it never happened....so he is....out of touch...i don't know how to even word it....life makes us what we ARE....yet Pete's (everyman) life now didn't take place. He is like Peter Pan, never grew up, but those around him did.

And yet, Pete now hasn't even ever married magically. He hasn't lived life, even tho we know he HAS. So, he is a NO-MAN now, not the EVERYMAN he always was and is supposed to be.

Mr. Relatable....is like.....Bubble Boy....now, as he watches his grown up friends deal with their life lessons and he is oblivious, married, but never married, and living in a new world created by a devil deal, and learning that he can use his spider-sense in battle for the first time.

Come on! This is my hero who once beat Firelord???!!!!

 

[Jack O Lantern]

All Peter can't do is get married and have kids, that doesn't make a life. I have three Uncles and not one is married and not one has a kid, they are in the late 50s and early 60s, are you saying they haven't had a life?

Why doesn't he go on dates? Because he is just come out of a long term relationship and he needs time to get over the girl he thought he was going to spend the rest off his life with and the girl he confided all his secrets in. How does that make him a no man?

As for the using his spider-sense in battle for the first time, give me a break, it's complaits like that that make the writers mock you. That's for first time readers, how can the comic be accessible if you've had to read a comic from the 80s to understand it?

 

[farmernudie]

Huh??

So, if i am not amazed that Pete learned how to use his spider-sense the other issue ago....writers will mock me??

Your explanation makes no sense at all to me, nor your attitude to lazy writing.

You can talk about his spider sense, or use it in a story, without making Pete look like a guy who has never used it before.

As per my points with Pete being de-aged, with everyone around him being able to live and learn...you've missed my points (message) entirely i guess.

They've taken his life lessons away. Others still have theirs, and have lived theirs, and are living them. Pete the everyman, now, hasn't grown up, nor experienced what we all know he experienced. My comics say so.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Huh??

So, if i am not amazed that Pete learned how to use his spider-sense the other issue ago....writers will mock me??

Your explanation makes no sense at all to me, nor your attitude to lazy writing.

You can talk about his spider sense, or use it in a story, without making Pete look like a guy who has never used it before.

Peter has constantly ignored his spider-sense throughout the years. I remember an issue in the late 90s written be Defalco when he saw a giant robot [actually Daredevil made to look and sound like one by a villian] and even though his spider-sense didn't go off he still went into battle. Daredevil had to tell him to trust his spider-sense.

How his spider-sense works isn't even set in stone.

And you're talking about a time when he was blind, yes? Hardly an everyday occurance.

And calling something lazy writing is tthe laziest critique on the planet. Explain how it is lazy.

As per my points with Pete being de-aged, with everyone around him being able to live and learn...you've missed my points (message) entirely i guess.

They've taken his life lessons away. Others still have theirs, and have lived theirs, and are living them. Pete the everyman, now, hasn't grown up, nor experienced what we all know he experienced. My comics say so.

What life lessons. Elaborate.

 

[Styleshift]

When has the issue of not aging Peter really been ... an issue? Because, unless we are talking about The Punisher, no character in comics that has been worth a damn has been aged since there introduction. In all reality, Bruce should of died by now (and not by a horribly written plot death), Spidey would be in his fifties, Capt, Iron Man, etc.. al would be senior citizens again.

It just seems this is an issue that people love to bring up for some reason, like it really matters at all.

Why does everyone think I'm saying Peter should continue to age?
That's not what I'm saying at all.

Look further for my answer to the rest of this post.

I don't think Peter is "stuck in a box"... you can progress a character without necessarily making him "become old"... you just need good writers.

Iron man, Daredevil, Cap, and Hulk are all great examples of real character progression. They are currently having great runs right now.

Iron man is on the run, Cap is dead and his sidekick has taken the mantle, Hulk's wife has died, he's become king of his own planet and has a son. DD is just NUTS right now. I cant say anything without spoiling, but im pretty sure everyone at least knows he's been in prison recently.

All of these titles are enjoying great runs and forward progression, They have all returned to status quo (as im sure they will again) but they've done so gracefully without convoluting the story and making people have to take out a notebook to figure out how their history worked and when they get back to status quo they quickly move on and tell a new story.

Peter Parker is a single photographer, living in an apartment.
I think the brain trust is a little bit too protective of the character and in comparison to other main titles, it REALLY shows. We're seeing plots that have already been made over 20 years ago, or they don't really add a thick enough layer to make it special.

Although don't get me wrong, im still holding out for Brand new day mainly because just about every character at marvel has had their best runs after the most controversial stories.

 

[Donald Thomas]

Peter Parker is a single photographer, living in an apartment.
I think the brain trust is a little bit too protective of the character and in comparison to other main titles, it REALLY shows. We're seeing plots that have already been made over 20 years ago.

Although don't get me wrong, im still holding out for Brand new day mainly because just about every character at marvel has had their best runs after the most controversial stories

Aloha,
But many of the people reading Amazing right now, have no idea about the stories from 20 years ago.I agree that they are being somewhat protective of Peter, primarily because they are just coming out of the MOST controversial period in the history of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. So spending some time focusing on building up the supporting cast helps to keep people focused on the whole and stop fixzating on OMD. We want to know what's going to happen with MJ in the next upcoming issues after 600. We want to know how Flash is going to adjust. We want to know how JJJ is going to relate to Peter once they are FAMILYThe soap opera style of Marvel needs time to build up a base of people who have feelings towards several of the old and new characters.
BTW- I also feel that the movies should follow the books and not the books the movies-at least in print so does JoeQ, but, marketing is marketing. People lost their jobs when the first X-Men movie came out and there was no comic book tie ins.Harry will always be Peter's best friend.Without a wife, Peter needed somes sort of social dynamic.Harry's return was just as much for that reason as his strong appearance in the 3 movies.
Spidey rules

 

[Styleshift]

All Peter can't do is get married and have kids, that doesn't make a life. I have three Uncles and not one is married and not one has a kid, they are in the late 50s and early 60s, are you saying they haven't had a life?

Why doesn't he go on dates? Because he is just come out of a long term relationship and he needs time to get over the girl he thought he was going to spend the rest off his life with and the girl he confided all his secrets in. How does that make him a no man?

As for the using his spider-sense in battle for the first time, give me a break, it's complaits like that that make the writers mock you. That's for first time readers, how can the comic be accessible if you've had to read a comic from the 80s to understand it?

........Haven't you ever heard of editor captions? They've had so many since Brand new day started...no excuses.

Even on the official site it states that Peter reacts to his Spider sense by instinct. They didn't have to reference that old story, but come on Peter has had his powers long enough to know how to put them to use. If your making the argument that they make it more accessible to new readers, than why haven't they explained how Peter's other powers that have more depth work? Like sticking, webs, strength, balance and agility?

Think your posts through a bit more before you start knocking someone with common sense like Farmie. He's also a nice poster, you didn't have to try to dismiss his thoughts like they were nothing.

Peter has constantly ignored his spider-sense throughout the years. I remember an issue in the late 90s written be Defalco when he saw a giant robot [actually Daredevil made to look and sound like one by a villian] and even though his spider-sense didn't go off he still went into battle. Daredevil had to tell him to trust his spider-sense.

How his spider-sense works isn't even set in stone.

And you're talking about a time when he was blind, yes? Hardly an everyday occurance.

And calling something lazy writing is tthe laziest critique on the planet. Explain how it is lazy.


What life lessons. Elaborate.

1. If I went blind once in my life I'm pretty sure I would remember it.
2. It's Lazy writing because he's treating one of his most important powers that he's had for years like new. It was an obvious mistake. they used it twice.
3. The DD story? Your using another bad story to defend another bad moment. OK!
4. Not only that but it was a totally different situation. He could see.
5. The marvel website has a description of all his powers. Even an encyclopedia has been put out. =/

 

[Styleshift]

Peter Parker is a single photographer, living in an apartment.
I think the brain trust is a little bit too protective of the character and in comparison to other main titles, it REALLY shows. We're seeing plots that have already been made over 20 years ago.

Although don't get me wrong, im still holding out for Brand new day mainly because just about every character at marvel has had their best runs after the most controversial stories

Aloha,
But many of the people reading Amazing right now, have no idea about the stories from 20 years ago.I agree that they are being somewhat protective of Peter, primarily because they are just coming out of the MOST controversial period in the history of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. So spending some time focusing on building up the supporting cast helps to keep people focused on the whole and stop fixzating on OMD. We want to know what's going to happen with MJ in the next upcoming issues after 600. We want to know how Flash is going to adjust. We want to know how JJJ is going to relate to Peter once they are FAMILYThe soap opera style of Marvel needs time to build up a base of people who have feelings towards several of the old and new characters.
BTW- I also feel that the movies should follow the books and not the books the movies-at least in print so does JoeQ, but, marketing is marketing. People lost their jobs when the first X-Men movie came out and there was no comic book tie ins.Harry will always be Peter's best friend.Without a wife, Peter needed somes sort of social dynamic.Harry's return was just as much for that reason as his strong appearance in the 3 movies.
Spidey rules

I think I still make a great point. I've been reading for at least 12 years now. My first recent story was Spectacular Spider-man 212 which came out in 94...I think? So that's about 15 years now.

A married Peter didn't alienate me. It actually made me more interested in tracking down back issues as well as keeping up with the adult Peter, seeing how he "evolved" as a character was so cool to me! It grounded me as a spidey fan, even in the Mackie reboot era. I have great memories of going to the comic shop every month, or picking them up at grocery stores (I miss that so much). I NEVER had second thoughts about substituting Spidey for any other title.

They keep making pointless excuses for the current state of Spider-man and Farmie is right...they haven't met their standards they've had 3 years worth of stories now.

I want this to be the NUMBER 1 title Spidey is to thank for how the public now perceives super heroes.


When we really get down to the nuts and bolts of things though, progression complaints aside, What they really need is one writer on the title. I love the 3x a month thing, but its messing up the flow a bit.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

It's only become an issue with Peter since it's one of the main reasons JQ said that they dissolved the marriage...

I think that's just "target reason", because the real reason they dissolved the marriage was because Marvel has always wanted a single Spider-Man... a single Spider-Man just makes for better stories... and Peter's guilt-ridden drive to be Spider-Man will always come between his desire to be loved and have a family...

His sacrifice to be Spider-Man at the cost of Peter Parker's social life/standing is what makes this character so great... and that became somewhat limited when he was going home to a super-model...

I agree 110%, but I do think married Peter is fantastic as well. I mean, he still has ALOT of problems, buut can come home to somone to take care of him. I think, in many people's minds, a single Peter will always be the best, but still, a married Peter was awesome, no doubt. Do I miss the marriage? No doubt about it. I hated the fact that it ended and I had constant rans about it, but honestly, I think the stories we have currently are some of the best we've had since JMS and ROmita Jr. left the book in '04 or even better even without the marriage.

 

[Styleshift]

I agree 110%, but I do think married Peter is fantastic as well. I mean, he still has ALOT of problems, buut can come home to somone to take care of him. I think, in many people's minds, a single Peter will always be the best, but still, a married Peter was awesome, no doubt. Do I miss the marriage? No doubt about it. I hated the fact that it ended and I had constant rans about it, but honestly, I think the stories we have currently are some of the best we've had in recent years even without the marriage. obviously, nothing tops the originals, but since BND, these stories really have been pretty damn awesome.

.......I'm curious to know, because I think I'm the youngest poster next to you.

What was your first issue. How were you introduced to Spidey, and how many back issues have you read?

Kind of off topic, but earlier (in my post above) I stated nearly the same thing. But since your pretty much completely pro BND I just want to see what you think.

I think really what separates us is the fact that character growth is what drew me to the character. I even quit Ultimate Spider-man, (which I loved) after I found out he would never grow past 15.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

.......I'm curious to know, because I think I'm the youngest poster next to you.

What was your first issue. How were you introduced to Spidey, and how many back issues have you read?

Kind of off topic, but earlier (in my post above) I stated nearly the same thing. But since your pro BND I just want to see what you think.

I think really what separates us is the fact that character growth is what drew me to the character. I even quit Ultimate Spider-man, (which I loved) after I found out he would never grow past 15.

Hmmm, well, my first issue (believe it or not) was probably Amazing Fantasy #15.
I'm about 90 % sure on that. I'm actually not sure how many I've read, What I do know is that I've read a ton. By a ton I mean a TON. I was first introduced to Spidey in general with TAS from the 90's. Probably back in '97. However, my memory just about stops in '97 or '96. As for comics, I grew up with the comics of Peter being single. Well, me reading the ones that he was single. Then, over time, I read ones with Mary Jane being married to him, then moved on to the present day issues that were out, etc.