Comics Amazing Harry Osborn

[Styleshift]

Hmmm, well, my first issue (believe it or not) was probably Amazing Fantasy #15.
I'm about 90 % sure on that. I'm actually not sure how many I've read, What I do know is that I've read a ton. By a ton I mean a TON. I was first introduced to Spidey in general with TAS from the 90's. Probably back in '97. However, my memory just about stops in '97 or '96. As for comics, I grew up with the comics of Peter being single. Well, me reading the ones that he was single. Then, over time, I read ones with Mary Jane being married to him. I've been reading Spidey comics on and off (on and off in the beginning. Then, straight foward. On and off due to money issues, honestly.) for the past 8 or 7 years, I believe. My Spidey "comics" life is a blur, really. I don't know exactly when I started.

My first issue was actually the gang war arc. ASM 113, which I inherited from my dad. Spectacular 212 was my first current issue, and ASM megazine (with reprints of the juggernaut story and a few other stories as well). If it wasn't for me inheriting it, I may not have gotten into them to begin with.

Spidey wasn't my first favorite hero, I liked Batman better because of the animated series. As I got into the comics, my love for the character grew way past any other fictional character I liked at the time.

Thanks for the info. though, I was really interested on hearing how you came across the web slinger!

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

My first issue was actually the gang war arc. ASM 113, which I inherited from my dad. Spectacular 212 was my first current issue, and ASM megazine (with reprints of the juggernaut story and a few other stories as well). If it wasn't for me inheriting it, I may not have gotten into them to begin with.

Spidey wasn't my first favorite hero, I liked Batman better because of the animated series. As I got into the comics, my love for the character grew way past any other fictional character I liked at the time.

Thanks for the info. though, I was really interested on hearing how you came across the web slinger!

Cool! God, how I loved the first gang war arc. My first couple of issues i read were spread acorss. I read some issues involving Gwen's death as well as some DItko issues, and i think some ROmita issues. I know (when i first came across Romita) I read ASM #50. So, those are what i started out with, then I restarted from the beginning and read them in order from the start to wherever i left off. Also, me coming across the web-head for the first time is kind of hard to remember, but I know it might've had to do with me seeing two 15 inch (or a little bigger) TAS Spidey figures that my mom brought home. One was Venom ,and one was Spidey. They had buttons on their chest you pressed and they talked, I think. The appeal of the character was fantastic to me, honestly.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

........Haven't you ever heard of editor captions? They've had so many since Brand new day started...no excuses.

Editor captions are there to tell you to check out an issue, usually from the last few months, not obsecure ones from twenty years ago. And not to explain a power

Even on the official site it states that Peter reacts to his Spider sense by instinct. They didn't have to reference that old story, but come on Peter has had his powers long enough to know how to put them to use. If your making the argument that they make it more accessible to new readers, than why haven't they explained how Peter's other powers that have more depth work? Like sticking, webs, strength, balance and agility?

His spider sense has never been set in stone. Ever. In one issue under Stan he knew the Green Goblin was still in the city because his spider-senses sensed it. That's right senses. Look at the Night Gwen Stacey Died, he uses it to track the Goblin to the bridge, without a tracer.

Think your posts through a bit more before you start knocking someone with common sense like Farmie. He's also a nice poster, you didn't have to try to dismiss his thoughts like they were nothing.

If he didn't knock a story for doing something that has ALWAYS happened in comics, then I wouldn't have to dismiss his thoughts as nothing.

And who are you to judge, someone disagrees with a you and you called it pointless excuses.

1. If I went blind once in my life I'm pretty sure I would remember it.

Did I say you wouldn't? But this isn't your life this is a fictional character with thousands of comics and you can''t expect the writers to reference every story under the sun. Maybe Waid didn't even know he went blind before. I didn't until I came on the net after reading it.

It's Lazy writing because he's treating one of his most important powers that he's had for years like new. It was an obvious mistake. they used it twice.

First off, I already explained that his spider sense has never worked in a particular way and changes story to story, so it's not an obvious mistake. Secondly, that's not lazy writing. Lazy writing is when you have a hero about to be shot but Apollo Creed shows up for no reason a kicks the guy's ass.

The DD story? Your using another bad story to defend another bad moment. OK!

Nice dodge.

How about every Mysterio story? How about every Chameleon story? Want a specific one? When J.M. Dematties came back on Spectacular in the late 90s he did a story when Chameleon escaped. Peter, as Spider-Man, came across Doc Ock [dead at this point] attacking Peter Parker. Releases that it had to be Mysterio or Chameleon he tackled Ock head. Ock was a hologram, why didn't his spider sense tell him that it wasn't a danager? Turned out "Peter Parker" was Chameleon, Spidey grabs him. Whoops turns out he had put something on his suit that left Spidey drugged, where was his Spider sense then?

Not only that but it was a totally different situation. He could see.

So?

The marvel website has a description of all his powers. Even an encyclopedia has been put out. =/

Who cares what it says in those stupid books? Those books are the most annoying things in the history of the world, people read them and think everything is clearly and easily defined, when all you have to do is read the comics and know that it's not.

 

[Styleshift]

Editor captions are there to tell you to check out an issue, usually from the last few months, not obsecure ones from twenty years ago. And not to explain a power

......they've also been using the editor captions for "cute jokes" since brand new day started. Editor notes are supposed to be their to explain and give readers the issue number for when something actually happened. Since they have 40 years of asm released and the essentials. Its not too hard for new readers to check out these things, in fact it would benefit them more in sales.

His spider sense has never been set in stone. Ever. In one issue under Stan he knew the Green Goblin was still in the city because his spider-senses sensed it. That's right senses. Look at the Night Gwen Stacey Died, he uses it to track the Goblin to the bridge, without a tracer.
If he didn't knock a story for doing something that has ALWAYS happened in comics, then I wouldn't have to dismiss his thoughts as nothing.

So your saying, past issues make it okay for newer issues to screw up this way? Think about what your saying buddy.

Remember this was the 60s and 70s for crying out loud. Spidey even had a "super human threshold for pain". Comics have evolved way beyond that these days.

And who are you to judge, someone disagrees with a you and you called it pointless excuses.

Are you serious??!
Show me where I shot someone down as making "pointless" excuses. I show all posters on here the same respect. Unless they are plain ignorant.

You may have misinterpreted what I said about Marvel.
I expressed my own opinion of their excuses for one more day as being pointless because they haven't capitalized on a single Spider-man yet. They have already written 3 years worth of ASM. All of these stories could have been worked into the married Peter's life. Since Marvel has been getting my money for 16 years now, I have a right to express my distaste in the title. As I've said before, i don't hate the title. I've even liked some stories. its just been mostly mediocre and uneven to me.

Did I say you wouldn't? But this isn't your life this is a fictional character with thousands of comics and you can''t expect the writers to reference every story under the sun. Maybe Waid didn't even know he went blind before. I didn't until I came on the net after reading it.

I agree, but it was a TPB worthy story. Check out the complete Frank Miller Spider-man.

First off, I already explained that his spider sense has never worked in a particular way and changes story to story, so it's not an obvious mistake. Secondly, that's not lazy writing. Lazy writing is when you have a hero about to be shot but Apollo Creed shows up for no reason a kicks the guy's ass.

.........Everyone know's Spider-man can sense danger. He doesn't need his eyes to know someone is attacking him from behind. No matter what you bring into this argument, that's the core idea of this power. It's the one part about it you can ALWAYS rely on.

That alone makes it an obvious mistake and as I said before, in this day and age its kind of unacceptable to compare a mistake of yesterday to today. All of those things you listed are far older than the "30 year old story".

Nice dodge.

.........Thank you.

How about every Mysterio story? How about every Chameleon story? Want a specific one? When J.M. Dematties came back on Spectacular in the late 90s he did a story when Chameleon escaped. Peter, as Spider-Man, came across Doc Ock [dead at this point] attacking Peter Parker. Releases that it had to be Mysterio or Chameleon he tackled Ock head. Ock was a hologram, why didn't his spider sense tell him that it wasn't a danager? Turned out "Peter Parker" was Chameleon, Spidey grabs him. Whoops turns out he had put something on his suit that left Spidey drugged, where was his Spider sense then?

Actually, you bring up a great point in my favor.
Chameleon and Mysterio have been written from the beginning as being able to deceive Peter's Spider sense. Peter's eyes can affect his Spider sense. He acts instinctively but he can also choose to ignore those instincts. Check out the Spectacular Spider-man (season 2) He uses a blind fold so he's better able to detect the real danger coming from mysterio's robots without being confused.

So?

Look up!

Who cares what it says in those stupid books? Those books are the most annoying things in the history of the world, people read them and think everything is clearly and easily defined, when all you have to do is read the comics and know that it's not.

Anyone who has bought One more day should care since they padded the book out with encyclopedia info. and anyone that is looking for more information about the character and how their powers work should care. If the information on Marvel's on website is inaccurate, why is it there in the first place??

 

[Jack O Lantern]

......they've also been using the editor captions for "cute jokes" since brand new day started. Editor notes are supposed to be their to explain and give readers the issue number for when something actually happened. Since they have 40 years of asm released and the essentials. Its not too hard for new readers to check out these things, in fact it would benefit them more in sales.

No because not everyone wants to buy back issues and not everyone can afford to buy back issues. I know I can't.

So your saying, past issues make it okay for newer issues to screw up this way? Think about what your saying buddy.

Remember this was the 60s and 70s for crying out loud. Spidey even had a "super human threshold for pain". Comics have evolved way beyond that these days.

So we should ignore the night gwen stacey died? I don't understand your argument. How can you complain when a back issue isn't referenced and then imply that we should ignore different back issue's? Or are you saying the only back issue's that matter are the ones you want to matter?

Are you serious??!
Show me where I shot someone down as making "pointless" excuses. I show all posters on here the same respect. Unless they are plain ignorant.

You may have misinterpreted what I said about Marvel.
I expressed my own opinion of their excuses for one more day as being pointless because they haven't capitalized on a single Spider-man yet. They have already written 3 years worth of ASM. All of these stories could have been worked into the married Peter's life. Since Marvel has been getting my money for 16 years now, I have a right to express my distaste in the title. As I've said before, i don't hate the title. I've even liked some stories. its just been mostly mediocre and uneven to me.

No I didn't misinterpet anything. I knew you were directing it at Marvel, but that doesn't matter. Marvel argue that erasing the marriage makes Peter more relatable, I assume that is one of the "pointless excuses." I and a lot of other posters agree with that argument. You can't say it's pointless when one person says it and then treat it like it's legitmate point when someone else says it.

I agree, but it was a TPB worthy story. Check out the complete Frank Miller Spider-man.

So? TPB means nothing, especially that Frank Miller one, it was thown together to captilize on his poularity, not because the stories are good. And just because its in TPB doesn't mean they've read it either.

.........Everyone know's Spider-man can sense danger. He doesn't need his eyes to know someone is attacking him from behind. No matter what you bring into this argument, that's the core idea of this power. It's the one part about it you can ALWAYS rely on.

No it's not, Peter has said in some stories that it only tells him he's in dangers. He's even complained that it doesn't tell him where the danger is.

That alone makes it an obvious mistake and as I said before, in this day and age its kind of unacceptable to compare a mistake of yesterday to today. All of those things you listed are far older than the "30 year old story".

Actually the two examples I gave game from the late 90s.

.........Thank you.



Actually, you bring up a great point in my favor.
Chameleon and Mysterio have been written from the beginning as being able to deceive Peter's Spider sense. Peter's eyes can affect his Spider sense. He acts instinctively but he can also choose to ignore those instincts. Check out the Spectacular Spider-man (season 2) He uses a blind fold so he's better able to detect the real danger coming from mysterio's robots without being confused.

Good another example that proves he has to focus on his spider sense and often doesn't trust it.

Look up!





Anyone who has bought One more day should care since they padded the book out with encyclopedia info. and anyone that is looking for more information about the character and how their powers work should care. If the information on Marvel's on website is inaccurate, why is it there in the first place??

I don't know. It's pretty stupid that they do, especially when a lot of creators complain about them.

 

[Styleshift]

No because not everyone wants to buy back issues and not everyone can afford to buy back issues. I know I can't.

lol your not forced to buy anything you don't want to. Back issue references give you the option of checking out certain stories...

I've been in the same boat as you. After aunt may found out Peter's secret was the last time I bought amazing and peter parker for about at least a year.

I wasn't able to afford them or ultimate. So I dove straight into back issues and completed certain runs. I'm glad that the editor captions gave me the option to do so. It came in really handy at least in my opinion because back issues at my LCS were much cheaper. Especially, since we had no internet.

So we should ignore the night gwen stacey died? I don't understand your argument. How can you complain when a back issue isn't referenced and then imply that we should ignore different back issue's? Or are you saying the only back issue's that matter are the ones you want to matter?

Sir, did you read my post? How did you get THAT out of this:

"So your saying, past issues make it okay for newer issues to screw up this way? Think about what your saying buddy.

Remember this was the 60s and 70s for crying out loud. Spidey even had a "super human threshold for pain". Comics have evolved way beyond that these days."


I was saying story telling is alot smarter these days. Certain things just don't fly. If anything I was promoting the use of continuity THAT'S my whole argument.

No I didn't misinterpet anything. I knew you were directing it at Marvel, but that doesn't matter. Marvel argue that erasing the marriage makes Peter more relatable, I assume that is one of the "pointless excuses." I and a lot of other posters agree with that argument. You can't say it's pointless when one person says it and then treat it like it's legitmate point when someone else says it.

Yes....yes you did, Marvel is a company, not a someone lol.

And who are you to judge, someone disagrees with a you and you called it pointless excuses.

but it doesn't matter, I only bother arguing with you because I'm having fun. As long as you don't insult me we're fine.

......you know Maybe you think Brand new day is the best spidey story in years. Spidermanhero thinks so, so does TMOB, Mr. Thomas, and iloveclones.

I have no beef with them for what they think and as far as I know (not sure about clones) we all get along fine. I'm actually envious of them because they can fully enjoy the title.

I don't actively boycott it like you might think...In fact I encourage some people to at least try the title to see what they think. now before you continue saying that I "copy" other peoples opinions and make it my own legitimate point. (if thats were you were saying) That's untrue. This is my thread. Everything in here stems from the posts made by me. But its all good, its just opinion and as I stated I wanted to see what everyone thought. No one here is wrong for what they think.

So? TPB means nothing, especially that Frank Miller one, it was thown together to captilize on his poularity, not because the stories are good. And just because its in TPB doesn't mean they've read it either.

He has alot of success right now (even if his comic work has been terrible)
Trust me....someone's read it, especially in this era...TPB's are REALLY hot right now or have you forgotten.

This TPB means nothing too....right?



It's kinda like, why would you want a writer on ASM that knows way less about the book than fans? People use that against JMS ALL the time, but never against Brand new day!

No it's not, Peter has said in some stories that it only tells him he's in dangers. He's even complained that it doesn't tell him where the danger is.


Actually the two examples I gave game from the late 90s.

I think it is connected to his reflexes...and marvel thinks so too.

http://marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_(Peter_Parker)

http://marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_(Peter_Parker)
spider-sense provides an early warning detection system linked with his superhuman kinesthetics, enabling him the ability to evade most any injury, provided he doesn't cognitively override the autonomic reflexes.

That might be why he can dodge hails of bullets so easily? I dunno.
Just because they got it wrong more than once doesn't make this time ok.

I don't know. It's pretty stupid that they do, especially when a lot of creators complain about them.

I think they provide easier templates for creators to stick too.
I've also made another argument about Spidey's strength level. How sometimes he seems kind of weak and others he can knock out a guy by flicking him in the face. While watching Spider-man 2 my mother was confused that he could stop a train. She didn't even know Spidey has super strength! lol!

 

[Styleshift]

Crap. Double post. Sorry

EDIT: In fact I'll use this space to respond to Spidermanhero12. I'm sorry buddy! I almost forgot since I was battling my archenemy above lol. (Calm down its just a joke)

Cool! God, how I loved the first gang war arc. My first couple of issues i read were spread acorss. I read some issues involving Gwen's death as well as some DItko issues, and i think some ROmita issues. I know (when i first came across Romita) I read ASM #50. So, those are what i started out with, then I restarted from the beginning and read them in order from the start to wherever i left off. Also, me coming across the web-head for the first time is kind of hard to remember, but I know it might've had to do with me seeing two 15 inch (or a little bigger) TAS Spidey figures that my mom brought home. One was Venom ,and one was Spidey. They had buttons on their chest you pressed and they talked, I think. The appeal of the character was fantastic to me, honestly.

My first spidey action figure was this one.

I also had armor spidey, black suit spidey (with this weird clear symbiote tape that came out of his stomach, and several others that didn't make sense. Like an inverted colored spidey that had some kind of mega super robot.

Ha! it's been a while. They have all gotten thrown out when I got home though. I know I'm an adult now but its still nostalgia that makes me sad. I loved remembering simpler times, its why I read back issue over really. I even record old shows like batman, x-men, and TMNT so I can watch them with a bowl of cereal like I used to when I was a kid on saturday morning or during nights.

I'll occasionally buy the Marvel legends ones with Comics included now though. Those are pretty dope. lol
I have black and red and blue Spidey

I love how you can move them into several iconic spidey poses and place them on your desk.

 

[farmernudie]

There was no need to make Pete look like he was a noob surprisingly discovering how to use his instincts to avoid attacks by using his spider sense which he has always done against countless enemies...Mysterio...everyone...i am not gonna list.

To say the writers are doing that for new readers...as Styleshifts said...then they should make Pete surprised when he uses any of his powers....stickng to walls, etc, for those same new readers.

However, imo, it is in how a writer PORTRAYS these things that make it seem acceptable or over the line silly and lazy.

If they substitute another power for the spider sense, and have Pete for example land on the wall and stick and he acts surprised and then uses his sticking power to defeat a foe....that is just odd and not well done.....because that is a life experience and a norm for him. Not good writing to have him discover his normal powers to use in a way he ALWAYS uses.

(sure some writers have used the spider sense thing differently, but that point adds nothing to this arguement. this current story brought nothing new to the table in regards to spider sense or to Pete)

And then to blame me and others who point it out, and that writers will mock me for just pointing out spidey knows his powers...is just shifting blame, which Marvel has been doing a lot of lately. It seems they are overly sensative to ANY sort of critique to their reboot. It must be good and is good and there is no other opinion to be allowed. These are the stories they always wanted tot ell and couldn't, end of story regardless.

BND has it's own superpower: deflecting ALL speeding bullets.

 

[farmernudie]

And look....this isn't even a BND arguement, because i know some defenders turn everything into protecting BND at all costs.

I would have said on here that the recent way they wrote and handled the spider sense story as outright silly, lazy and dumb if it had been written today, 5 years ago, 10, whenever
and by whomever...JMS...Slott....McFarlane art...doesn't matter....pre BND or current...it all doesn't matter.

 

[Ultimate Kaine]

I'd just like to say that Harry's death was one of the most affecting, heart-wrenching final pages in comic book history, to me at least. Makes me well up just thinking about it. But that could be 'cause I'm a big ol' wuss. Anyway. Although I was initially pissed at his resurrection and further, the cheap way they explained it which was basically a complete borrow of his dad's resurrection, two things turned my tide: 1. the writer of Harry's death penned a story in ASM FAMILY that was the perfect emotional counterpiece to the original story, and 2. The things they've been doing with him in ASM have been fascinating. When news of his return hit I assumed all they could ever do with him was pinball the character between sane and insane, straight or on drugs, good-guy or goblin. It's a lot more complex than that, and I feel he's being used very well since his return.

 

[Styleshift]

There was no need to make Pete look like he was a noob surprisingly discovering how to use his instincts to avoid attacks by using his spider sense which he has always done against countless enemies...Mysterio...everyone...i am not gonna list.

To say the writers are doing that for new readers...as Styleshifts said...then they should make Pete surprised when he uses any of his powers....stickng to walls, etc, for those same new readers.

However, imo, it is in how a writer PORTRAYS these things that make it seem acceptable or over the line silly and lazy.

If they substitute another power for the spider sense, and have Pete for example land on the wall and stick and he acts surprised and then uses his sticking power to defeat a foe....that is just odd and not well done.....because that is a life experience and a norm for him. Not good writing to have him discover his normal powers to use in a way he ALWAYS uses.

(sure some writers have used the spider sense thing differently, but that point adds nothing to this arguement. this current story brought nothing new to the table in regards to spider sense or to Pete)

And then to blame me and others who point it out, and that writers will mock me for just pointing out spidey knows his powers...is just shifting blame, which Marvel has been doing a lot of lately. It seems they are overly sensative to ANY sort of critique to their reboot. It must be good and is good and there is no other opinion to be allowed. These are the stories they always wanted tot ell and couldn't, end of story regardless.

BND has it's own superpower: deflecting ALL speeding bullets.

You said it better than I did. He kept trying to shift the topic, or he didn't really understand what I was saying to begin with. They haven't done a good job of making me believe that this is the same Spidey that's faced and bested every other hero in the marvel universe. New ways to die, Character assassination and American son are the only arcs that have been completely believeable IMO.

And look....this isn't even a BND arguement, because i know some defenders turn everything into protecting BND at all costs.

I would have said on here that the recent way they wrote and handled the spider sense story as outright silly, lazy and dumb if it had been written today, 5 years ago, 10, whenever
and by whomever...JMS...Slott....McFarlane art...doesn't matter....pre BND or current...it all doesn't matter.

Because it's much easier to dismiss our claims if they turn it into a "he's mad because the marriage is gone" argument.

No, I'm mad because continuity is screwed up and instead of tightening it up, We continue to get more questions and issues with the continuity. we've only got one question and a half answered thus far (we now know how Harry is back and how Peter's unmasking can be reversed within 3 issues of stories....wow.) Since it's been 3 years worth of ASM already, that's kinda bad.

I'd just like to say that Harry's death was one of the most affecting, heart-wrenching final pages in comic book history, to me at least. Makes me well up just thinking about it. But that could be 'cause I'm a big ol' wuss. Anyway. Although I was initially pissed at his resurrection and further, the cheap way they explained it which was basically a complete borrow of his dad's resurrection, two things turned my tide: 1. the writer of Harry's death penned a story in ASM FAMILY that was the perfect emotional counterpiece to the original story, and 2. The things they've been doing with him in ASM have been fascinating. When news of his return hit I assumed all they could ever do with him was pinball the character between sane and insane, straight or on drugs, good-guy or goblin. It's a lot more complex than that, and I feel he's being used very well since his return.

Agreed. I will give them credit. The reason for his return was kind of lame and already done, but the use of Harry has been EXCELLENT.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

lol your not forced to buy anything you don't want to. Back issue references give you the option of checking out certain stories...

I've been in the same boat as you. After aunt may found out Peter's secret was the last time I bought amazing and peter parker for about at least a year.

I wasn't able to afford them or ultimate. So I dove straight into back issues and completed certain runs. I'm glad that the editor captions gave me the option to do so. It came in really handy at least in my opinion because back issues at my LCS were much cheaper. Especially, since we had no internet.

If they are told to check out a back issue to understand a story but can't afford to buy it or don't want to buy it then they won't understand what's going on. Don't you get that some people can't and don't want to buy back issue's. They just want to buy the new stories and enjoy them.

Sir, did you read my post? How did you get THAT out of this:

"So your saying, past issues make it okay for newer issues to screw up this way? Think about what your saying buddy.

Remember this was the 60s and 70s for crying out loud. Spidey even had a "super human threshold for pain". Comics have evolved way beyond that these days."


I was saying story telling is alot smarter these days. Certain things just don't fly. If anything I was promoting the use of continuity THAT'S my whole argument.

Your dismissing examples of Spidey using his spider sense in ways you don't see today because of the decade they're in. You're not supporting the use of continuity, you're supporting the continuity YOU want.

Yes....yes you did, Marvel is a company, not a someone lol.


but it doesn't matter, I only bother arguing with you because I'm having fun. As long as you don't insult me we're fine.

......you know Maybe you think Brand new day is the best spidey story in years. Spidermanhero thinks so, so does TMOB, Mr. Thomas, and iloveclones.

I have no beef with them for what they think and as far as I know (not sure about clones) we all get along fine. I'm actually envious of them because they can fully enjoy the title.

I don't actively boycott it like you might think...In fact I encourage some people to at least try the title to see what they think. now before you continue saying that I "copy" other peoples opinions and make it my own legitimate point. (if thats were you were saying) That's untrue. This is my thread. Everything in here stems from the posts made by me. But its all good, its just opinion and as I stated I wanted to see what everyone thought. No one here is wrong for what they think.

Arguements are either pointless or have a point. If a company or writer makes an argument and then a poster makes the same argument, the worth of that argument doesn't change. If you argue that something Marvel says is pointless then you are arguing that when I say the same thing it is also pointless.

He has alot of success right now (even if his comic work has been terrible)
Trust me....someone's read it, especially in this era...TPB's are REALLY hot right now or have you forgotten.

Someone may have read it, but that doesn't mean Mark Waid read it. Is it even still in print?

This TPB means nothing too....right?

That STORY is important, the fact that it was released in trade isn't. The Frank Miller collection was released on the strenght of Miller's name not the strenght of the stories.

It's kinda like, why would you want a writer on ASM that knows way less about the book than fans? People use that against JMS ALL the time, but never against Brand new day!

Fans always know more about ASM than the writers, fans know more about everything than the creators. Because fans are obessive about the past, whereas writers have to expel the past to think off the future.

JMS was criticised because he didn't know things like how MJ found out Peter was Spider-Man, which is a lot different than not knowing he went blind in some random issue.

I think it is connected to his reflexes...and marvel thinks so too.



That might be why he can dodge hails of bullets so easily? I dunno.
Just because they got it wrong more than once doesn't make this time ok.

I think they provide easier templates for creators to stick too.
I've also made another argument about Spidey's strength level. How sometimes he seems kind of weak and others he can knock out a guy by flicking him in the face. While watching Spider-man 2 my mother was confused that he could stop a train. She didn't even know Spidey has super strength! lol!

Those levels mean nothing. Just read comics. Daredevil is the match for Kingpin, Kingpin is a match for Spider-Man. According to the power levels that doesn't make sense.

I doubt writers even look at that crap.


As for why the explain the spider-sense rather than his other powers? It's because the spider sense is abstract, eveything else you can see and understand easily.

The complaint about the spider sense is grasphing at straws and trying to find a reason not to like the story

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Crap. Double post. Sorry

EDIT: In fact I'll use this space to respond to Spidermanhero12. I'm sorry buddy! I almost forgot since I was battling my archenemy above lol. (Calm down its just a joke)



My first spidey action figure was this one.

I also had armor spidey, black suit spidey (with this weird clear symbiote tape that came out of his stomach, and several others that didn't make sense. Like an inverted colored spidey that had some kind of mega super robot.

Ha! it's been a while. They have all gotten thrown out when I got home though. I know I'm an adult now but its still nostalgia that makes me sad. I loved remembering simpler times, its why I read back issue over really. I even record old shows like batman, x-men, and TMNT so I can watch them with a bowl of cereal like I used to when I was a kid on saturday morning or during nights.

I'll occasionally buy the Marvel legends ones with Comics included now though. Those are pretty dope. lol
I have black and red and blue Spidey

I love how you can move them into several iconic spidey poses and place them on your desk.

Cool! I think I remember seeing that figure somewhere. I buy Marvel Legends figures once in a very while. I usually buy Spidey figures to add to my collection. I bought 2 yesterday, as a matter of fact. I have classic Spidey Marvel Legends figure that comes with a comic. I also have some non-Spidey figures such as Weapon X WOlverine Marvel Legends, X-Men: The movie figures, X2: X-Men United figures, a Hulk 9 inch (or so) figure from the 90's, more Spidey figures from the 90's, and lots more. I own a 13 icnh Mister SInister figure from the Marvel Universe line that stopped in about 2000 or 1999. I have a Peter parker one, as well, I think, but I'm not 100% sure. As for movie Spidey figures, I own a toon, as well. I think i own every Spider-Man 2 figure released. Also, I find it cool how bout of our first Spider-Man figures were from TAS, lol.

As for ultimate Spider-Man (in terms of the comic) I read a couple of back issues in 2004, then I whent back to USM in 2005, but I realized, this really isn't Spider-Man. I mean, The green Goblin is a hulk? Ummmm, what?

ALso, by on and off with the comics, I meant for Civil War. I read Sins Past and stuff that came before it, etc. Sins Past was bad no doubt.

 

[Themanofbat]

My only defense to his reaction to being "blinded" is simply explained by the fact that Spdiey was tired after doing 24 hours of good deeds, and simply did not see the "blindness barf" (for lack of a better word) coming, was somewhat shocked and surprised... and for a moment, given the imminent danger, panicked... for a moment... til he got ahold of himself and focused.

Yes, we've seen him do this in SSM #27-28, but those issues came out in 1978, and it's a tad unrealistic for any Spidey writer to remember every moment that Spidey has ever gone through... especially one that was over 31 years ago...

I didn't like his reaction to it neither, but it's certainly not the end of the world nor am I going to cry "FOUL!!!" about it... if I did, I would have been screaming at JMS every 3rd issue he put out... LOL.

Christ, on his third issue of ASM, he writes while watching Ezekeil fight Morlun, it was weird for Peter to see somebody fight like himself... something he's never seen before... Hellooooo? What about Ben Reilly?

These kinds of "forgetful moments" happen all the time in comics in general... I think people just like to jump all over these things in ASM because they like calling the writers of the new direction "lazy".

Just my two cents...

 

[Styleshift]

If they are told to check out a back issue to understand a story but can't afford to buy it or don't want to buy it then they won't understand what's going on. Don't you get that some people can't and don't want to buy back issue's. They just want to buy the new stories and enjoy them.

Please read this carefully,
I said the option is left open to the reader to track down an issue.
No one has to spend there money in anyway they don't want to. I guess your pretty mad that their going to reference the clone saga soon...huh?

Did you believe I was saying they should have an editorial caption with no recap? NO!
1.

Your dismissing examples of Spidey using his spider sense in ways you don't see today because of the decade they're in. You're not supporting the use of continuity, you're supporting the continuity YOU want.

No, I've clearly stated that they've messed it up before. I'm not hand picking continuity, I'm going with what is the set definition of Spidey sense, his reflexes reacting to instinct. The one EVERYBODY knows. Even non comic readers know Spider sense is his danger sense. I even have a quote to back me up off of Marvel's own official website.

Your making such a big argument about his Spider sense being different all the time, but you neglect the fact that he has used it this way before. It's not different this time. All the points you brought up were different uses of his Spider sense which have been ignored and written back in without him thinking its a new way to use his powers which he's had since he was a teen.
2.

Arguements are either pointless or have a point. If a company or writer makes an argument and then a poster makes the same argument, the worth of that argument doesn't change. If you argue that something Marvel says is pointless then you are arguing that when I say the same thing it is also pointless.

I wasn't really thinking of you when I said it, but ok.
I'm not going to change my opinion because you don't like it....
I respect your opinions and I hope you respect mine as well.
I'm really sorry if you felt offended. I honestly mean that.

Someone may have read it, but that doesn't mean Mark Waid read it. Is it even still in print?

Amazon has about 20, 9 used-11 new for good deals. I've also seen it in libraries, that's how I read it at least.

I think if your trying to write a title like Spidey you have to be a bit more on the ball. Aside from the Spidey sense thing, I liked the issue.
I love Mark Waid. Don't get me wrong this isn't the first time I complained about Spidey-sense in recent years. I didn't care for when JMS leveled it up to the point that Peter could tell how many fingers MJ held to the back of his head.

That STORY is important, the fact that it was released in trade isn't. The Frank Miller collection was released on the strenght of Miller's name not the strenght of the stories.

I'm sorry, You said TPB's mean nothing.

Fans always know more about ASM than the writers, fans know more about everything than the creators. Because fans are obessive about the past, whereas writers have to expel the past to think off the future.

Check this out.
Key words in bold.

It's kinda like, why would you want a writer on ASM that knows way less about the book than fans? People use that against JMS ALL the time, but never against Brand new day!

JMS was criticised because he didn't know things like how MJ found out Peter was Spider-Man, which is a lot different than not knowing he went blind in some random issue.

Exactly what I said earlier. Because he knew way less history than the fans did. His run started falling apart halfway in. Why would anyone else want someone like that? That ignores the past.

I really don't think you read my posts.

Those levels mean nothing. Just read comics. Daredevil is the match for Kingpin, Kingpin is a match for Spider-Man. According to the power levels that doesn't make sense.

Again, I've said his levels change and thats something I'm kinda tired of.
It's the whole point of this argument. Ignorance with Spidey's powers.
(Now I know you don't read my posts before you reply)

In recent stories it's been fixed and tightened. (Which is what I really want.) Spidey has beaten the crap out of kingpin during Black in black. He doesn't even deal with Kingpin anymore. DD is kingpins enemy now and they better suit each other. Your referencing old classic stories with nostalgic karate chops and judo body fat in more contemporary times.
The kingpin was first introduced as a character that could punch craters in the ground. That doesn't make Spidey look any weaker.
In early stories, spidey always bested him though. But was shocked by how fast and strong the guy actually was. (his looks were deceiving)

Kingpin has always been portrayed as a more than average strength character. You could say the same thing about Ox. But I'm glad that they are tightening up on that bit of continuity. These characters should be able to hurt Spidey but never beat him in a fight fair and square. Which has never happened.

I doubt writers even look at that crap.

Evidently they don't!

As for why the explain the spider-sense rather than his other powers? It's because the spider sense is abstract, eveything else you can see and understand easily.

In short, we can make up things as much as we want because its not a visible power. Kinda odd since they've added layers to prof. X's powers without convoluting it or making things he can already do seem like new.

The complaint about the spider sense is grasphing at straws and trying to find a reason not to like the story

I said I liked the story. I love Mark Waid. I don't like when writers ignore certain aspects about peter, whether it be him, his powers, or his supporting cast. I disliked one aspect about the 24/7 story but you forced it into this large argument like I'm looking for things to hate. Nooooo sir. I'd give it at least a 4/5. I think it was that good.

 

[Styleshift]

My only defense to his reaction to being "blinded" is simply explained by the fact that Spdiey was tired after doing 24 hours of good deeds, and simply did not see the "blindness barf" (for lack of a better word) coming, was somewhat shocked and surprised... and for a moment, given the imminent danger, panicked... for a moment... til he got ahold of himself and focused.

I honestly did not think the debate would go this far.
I actually really enjoyed 24/7. There was 1 aspect I brought up that I didn't like....and as you discuss further down in your posts, I HAVE complained about those things happening as well. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the stories. Just that I know better.

Yes, we've seen him do this in SSM #27-28, but those issues came out in 1978, and it's a tad unrealistic for any Spidey writer to remember every moment that Spidey has ever gone through... especially one that was over 31 years ago...

I didn't like his reaction to it neither, but it's certainly not the end of the world nor am I going to cry "FOUL!!!" about it... if I did, I would have been screaming at JMS every 3rd issue he put out... LOL.

Christ, on his third issue of ASM, he writes while watching Ezekeil fight Morlun, it was weird for Peter to see somebody fight like himself... something he's never seen before... Hellooooo? What about Ben Reilly?

These kinds of "forgetful moments" happen all the time in comics in general... I think people just like to jump all over these things in ASM because they like calling the writers of the new direction "lazy".

Just my two cents...

JMS had no clue what was going on, he made his own continuity LOL. This is Mark Waid we're talking about..........he knows what he's doing. haha
I don't think it's unrealistic for a writer to remember something that happened, or to at least research to see if it hasn't been done before.

 

[Styleshift]

Cool! I think I remember seeing that figure somewhere. I buy Marvel Legends figures once in a very while. I usually buy Spidey figures to add to my collection. I bought 2 yesterday, as a matter of fact. I have classic Spidey Marvel Legends figure that comes with a comic. I also have some non-Spidey figures such as Weapon X WOlverine Marvel Legends, X-Men: The movie figures, X2: X-Men United figures, a Hulk 9 inch (or so) figure from the 90's, more Spidey figures from the 90's, and lots more. I own a 13 icnh Mister SInister figure from the Marvel Universe line that stopped in about 2000 or 1999. I have a Peter parker one, as well, I think, but I'm not 100% sure. As for movie Spidey figures, I own a toon, as well. I think i own every Spider-Man 2 figure released. Also, I find it cool how bout of our first Spider-Man figures were from TAS, lol.

As for ultimate Spider-Man (in terms of the comic) I read a couple of back issues in 2004, then I whent back to USM in 2005, but I realized, this really isn't Spider-Man. I mean, The green Goblin is a hulk? Ummmm, what?

ALso, by on and off with the comics, I meant for Civil War. I read Sins Past and stuff that came before it, etc. Sins Past was bad no doubt.

Sins past was horrible characterization at it's finest. I think if Norman had raped Gwen it would have been a better story and would have added another sinister layer to him. But as golden as a story as "The night Gwen Stacy died" is. Joey Q should have knocked down the idea when it was first brought to him. You just don't touch stories like that. (What am I saying?? it was HIS idea that normie be the father!)

In fact I remember a story about Gwen where a protestor asks her where her chicken boyfriend is, and she slaps the piss out of him telling him "even if Peter were half the man he is, he'd still make ten of him (the protestor)".

There's no way she'd cheat on him with Normie. No way.

Civil war wasn't that bad. Only if you read ASM. Than Peter looked like a Tony Stark fan boy. If you pick up the civil war dvd (which is a nice deal on amazon right now) Than you'll better understand why he came forward and unmasked. I know some people feel he would never do it, but he was boxed in. He wasn't sure if Tony would out him or not, (which put his family at risk for being accomplices) and his family (who he hid his secret from for so long) accepted the idea and rooted for him.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Sins past was horrible characterization at it's finest. I think if Norman had raped Gwen it would have been a better story and would have added another sinister layer to him. But as golden as a story as "The night Gwen Stacy died" is. Joey Q should have knocked down the idea when it was first brought to him. You just don't touch stories like that. (What am I saying?? it was HIS idea that normie be the father!)

In fact I remember a story about Gwen where a protestor asks her where her chicken boyfriend is, and she slaps the piss out of him telling him "even if Peter were half the man he is, he'd still make ten of him (the protestor)".

There's no way she'd cheat on him with Normie. No way.

Civil war wasn't that bad. Only if you read ASM. Than Peter looked like a Tony Stark fan boy. If you pick up the civil war dvd (which is a nice deal on amazon right now) Than you'll better understand why he came forward and unmasked. I know some people feel he would never do it, but he was boxed in. He wasn't sure if Tony would out him or not, (which put his family at risk for being accomplices) and his family (who he hid his secret from for so long) accepted the idea and rooted for him.

I completely agree. ALso, I hated how they made Petere reveal his identity to the world. That took a chunk of who Spider-Man is away. The Iron SPider suit was pretty cool, but still. As for knowing why he unmasked, yes, I know why he did it, but still, as i said, it was a bad move. I mean, all those good stories of Peter trying to hid his costume when someone unexpectedly comes over, etc, was washed down the drain sort of. Glad he has his identity back though.

I would have read most of Civil War, but money issues got in the way, etc.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Please read this carefully,
I said the option is left open to the reader to track down an issue.
No one has to spend there money in anyway they don't want to. I guess your pretty mad that their going to reference the clone saga soon...huh?

Did you believe I was saying they should have an editorial caption with no recap? NO!

How long of a recap? You expect a paragraph or something because that is what it would take.

The clone saga isn't some obsecure issue from 30 years ago. You can wikipedia it or just ask someone at the LCS. Plus the mini series is coming out. But you seriously can't be comparing a 3 year period in which Ben was actually Spider-Man to a single issue from the 70s, can you?
1.

No, I've clearly stated that they've messed it up before. I'm not hand picking continuity, I'm going with what is the set definition of Spidey sense, his reflexes reacting to instinct. The one EVERYBODY knows. Even non comic readers know Spider sense is his danger sense. I even have a quote to back me up off of Marvel's own official website.

His spider sense is not defined and never has bee. Even the last few years it has changed based on the story. Look at the issue that Aunt May got shot, it didn't sense the thing in the door and all it took was for the guy to go to sleep.

You don't go on what a website says you go on what happens in the book

Your making such a big argument about his Spider sense being different all the time, but you neglect the fact that he has used it this way before. It's not different this time. All the points you brought up were different uses of his Spider sense which have been ignored and written back in without him thinking its a new way to use his powers which he's had since he was a teen.

How often does he use his spider sense to beat Mysterio but then is confused by his holograms again. Any time he faces Mysterio he forgets how to use his spider sense.

Amazon has about 20, 9 used-11 new for good deals. I've also seen it in libraries, that's how I read it at least.

So it is out of print?

I think if your trying to write a title like Spidey you have to be a bit more on the ball. Aside from the Spidey sense thing, I liked the issue.
I love Mark Waid. Don't get me wrong this isn't the first time I complained about Spidey-sense in recent years. I didn't care for when JMS leveled it up to the point that Peter could tell how many fingers MJ held to the back of his head.

So a spider-man writer is expected to read every issue he has appeared in?

I'm sorry, You said TPB's mean nothing.

Your argument is that the story was important because it was made into a trade. My argument was that it doesn't mean anything.

Exactly what I said earlier. Because he knew way less history than the fans did. His run started falling apart halfway in. Why would anyone else want someone like that? That ignores the past.

I really don't think you read my posts.

His run fell apart because he started doing stupid stuff, not because he didn't know history. How would knowing history make the other better?

Again, I've said his levels change and thats something I'm kinda tired of.
It's the whole point of this argument. Ignorance with Spidey's powers.
(Now I know you don't read my posts before you reply)

In recent stories it's been fixed and tightened. (Which is what I really want.) Spidey has beaten the crap out of kingpin during Black in black. He doesn't even deal with Kingpin anymore. DD is kingpins enemy now and they better suit each other. Your referencing old classic stories with nostalgic karate chops and judo body fat in more contemporary times.
The kingpin was first introduced as a character that could punch craters in the ground. That doesn't make Spidey look any weaker.
In early stories, spidey always bested him though. But was shocked by how fast and strong the guy actually was. (his looks were deceiving)

Kingpin has always been portrayed as a more than average strength character. You could say the same thing about Ox. But I'm glad that they are tightening up on that bit of continuity. These characters should be able to hurt Spidey but never beat him in a fight fair and square. Which has never happened.

Yet he was still beat up by Captain America in Civil War. Power levels hinder creativity and nothing else.

Evidently they don't!

Good

In short, we can make up things as much as we want because its not a visible power.

Yes.

Kinda odd since they've added layers to prof. X's powers without convoluting it or making things he can already do seem like new.

Different character and different powers

I said I liked the story. I love Mark Waid. I don't like when writers ignore certain aspects about peter, whether it be him, his powers, or his supporting cast. I disliked one aspect about the 24/7 story but you forced it into this large argument like I'm looking for things to hate. Nooooo sir. I'd give it at least a 4/5. I think it was that good.

I made it into a big argument? I was debating with someone else and you interjected.

 

[Styleshift]

I completely agree. ALso, I hated how they made Petere reveal his identity to the world. That took a chunk of who Spider-Man is away. The Iron SPider suit was pretty cool, but still. As for knowing why he unmasked, yes, I know why he did it, but still, as i said, it was a bad move. I mean, all those good stories of Peter trying to hid his costume when someone unexpectedly comes over, etc, was washed down the drain sort of. Glad he has his identity back though.

I would have read most of Civil War, but money issues got in the way, etc.

I also think it was a bad move. (even though I can sympathize)
They opened too many bottles they weren't prepared for.

I think the unmasking could have led to more interesting stories, but for the most part I'm glad Peter is re-masked. I still think he should have fought for the right to keep his mask on a bit more than he actually did.

 

[Styleshift]

How long of a recap? You expect a paragraph or something because that is what it would take.

EDIT:
Screw this post. (my own)
I'll have a much better response for you later, but I've been busy all day at work and I'm too tired to really give it my all in this debate of ours.

I'll break down what you've been saying later....I just really need some sleep.
I promise I'm not ignoring you Jack O Lantern.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I also think it was a bad move. (even though I can sympathize)
They opened too many bottles they weren't prepared for.

I think the unmasking could have led to more interesting stories, but for the most part I'm glad Peter is re-masked. I still think he should have fought for the right to keep his mask on a bit more than he actually did.

Him keeping his indentity a a secret was part of the weight on Peter's shoulders, which made it all the more interesting. One bad thing happens then another. hell, one bad thing ends, and another starts up. The masking just added to that. So, unmasking downgraded the interesting factor.

 

[farmernudie]

I like riding on my tractor after getting home from work because being a Nurse and dealing with life saving stuff is stressful.

It is warm out today.

The woods is pretty.

Saw some wild turkey while out on the tractor.

Ah.



(Got Invincible Vol. 4 by UPS to read too...!...good stuff...i like the extras in the giant TPB's too...they cram it!!)

Spider-Sense Activate! Form of....shock and awe!

 

[Styleshift]

I like riding on my tractor after getting home from work because being a Nurse and dealing with life saving stuff is stressful.

It is warm out today.

The woods is pretty.

Saw some wild turkey while out on the tractor.

Ah.



(Got Invincible Vol. 4 by UPS to read too...!...good stuff...i like the extras in the giant TPB's too...they cram it!!)

Spider-Sense Activate! Form of....shock and awe!

LOL that's going to be my new sig for a while.
Your up on vol 4. and I still need to catch up....I'm so envious.

and I haven't been in the wilderness for far too long. I grew up in the country.

 

[Styleshift]

Him keeping his indentity a a secret was part of the weight on Peter's shoulders, which made it all the more interesting. One bad thing happens then another. hell, one bad thing ends, and another starts up. The masking just added to that. So, unmasking downgraded the interesting factor.

A character can change without it making them uninteresting. (you just have to be careful you don't make them change out of character. or digress their character growth)

If they stay the same for too long they become stale.

It's like having pork and beans every night for dinner for a month.
I just thought the move sucked from the get go because I knew a poorly slopped together retcon would be coming afterwards. I just didn't think it would be so soon!