The Force Awakens Andy Serkis as Supreme Leader Snoke

[BatLobster]

I don't know if most CBM villains have too much different motivations. Some small differences but in the end destruction/control of some sort, or desire for people to see the world like them. Or a combo of the few.

That's fine that you have some ideas of what your hoping for. I just try not to do that, because in the internet age it seems many do that, and when they don't get what they want they automatically shake their head at it. Just because we have not thought of alternate ideas does not mean they are not out there.

Now as for connection. I would not mind it one way or another. I think personally there is some connection. But just not an obvious one like we see him in the background in Rebels or something like that.

But also we have to realize even if he is brand new to us in TFA remember what JJ said? He wants us to be dropped in the middle of something. With out a doubt Snoke has a past, a history. We will probably learn about it in the new books ect. Almost guarantee it. But either way there will be some connection to the characters.

That and we have to remember...Andy is a pure badass. I'm sure he will make a very interesting character.

I mean if you factor in Marvel, yeah they have a bunch of generic villains with overlapping motivations. But I think several different villain "types" out there. Motivation, methods, end goal...these things can set them apart from each other. Some villains are the heroes of their own story, "ends justify the means" types (Ra's al Ghul, Raimi's Doc Ock, Darth Vader) who are doing bad things to achieve what can be seen as a legitimately positive end. Then you have villains like Sidious who are basically evil incarnate, they're about power for power's sake and revel in their evilness. Even if Snoke is similar to The Emperor in a lot of ways, I feel there will likely be some at least one key difference, and that's all I'd hope for.

And yeah, I'm not saying I want to be spoonfed exposition in the film about where he came from or Snoke to be literally inserted into scenes of Rebels or anything like that. I'm just intrigued about what his deal is and if there's a way for him to feel somehow engrained in the larger universe. I guess I was coming at it in a "they better not do this or else!" tone, but the reality is if I love Snoke, the movie will be even more of a slam dunk for me than it already is precisely because I care so much about this aspect of the film. Regardless of the backstory, I'm really happy that Serkis is our new baddie.

 

[Jaspertian1105]

I doubt it will. Any vague descriptions on paper can make many things sound exactly the same. There may be some similarities but there usually are with most villains. But I'm sure Andy will bring something special. He always does.

So basically you think Snoke will be a pure Sith? like power and domination are his only motives? i know its the way of the sith, i dont mind that, but i hope there is some sort of twist in his motivations beyond those, cause with a title like that he obviously sounds like he likes power

 

[Solidus]

Well I dunno about how Sith like these people are. I mean there is no "Darth" in either Kylo Ren or Snoke's title. Unless they are hiding it. But I think there will be more subtle aspects to it all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well I dunno about how Sith like these people are. I mean there is no "Darth" in either Kylo Ren or Snoke's title. Unless they are hiding it. But I think there will be more subtle aspects to it all.

Well if they went classic OT, Darth isn't a Sith title. Darth Vader was a full name.

 

[X Knight]

Well if they went classic OT, Darth isn't a Sith title. Darth Vader was a full name.

didn't Obi Wan address Vader as Darth, as if that were his first name?

 

[Jaspertian1105]

Well I dunno about how Sith like these people are. I mean there is no "Darth" in either Kylo Ren or Snoke's title. Unless they are hiding it. But I think there will be more subtle aspects to it all.

I think Kylo doesnt qualify as one yet, thats my theory, and Snoke i think it just like Palpatine, its a name but not his true name. There has to be a darth in SW, and i hope he is not following Banes rule anymore

 

[ThePhantasm]

didn't Obi Wan address Vader as Darth, as if that were his first name?

Yes he did.

"Only a master of evil, Darth."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

didn't Obi Wan address Vader as Darth, as if that were his first name?

Yep, exactly. That is how it was until it wasn't.

 

[Jaspertian1105]

Yes he did.

"Only a master of evil, Darth."

i never understood that, was he just joking with him a bit? its the only time i heard a SW character call someone Darth, or maybe Sir Alec forgot Vaders name that day

 

[HarryOsborn]

Well I dunno about how Sith like these people are. I mean there is no "Darth" in either Kylo Ren or Snoke's title. Unless they are hiding it. But I think there will be more subtle aspects to it all.

I think this is more of Lucasfilm/JJ trying to get away from the Prequels than anything else and bring Star Wars back to it's original roots. Look at the names of the "big threes" we've had in each trilogy. I remember (vaguely) before the Phantom Menace came out, and being in Kindergarten watching the original films. Darth just seemed like Vader's first name and the Emperor was just like an embodiment of the Empire and the Darkside itself- not "Darth" Sidious. So in addition to getting names for our big three that are not too off from Han, Luke, and Leia, we have Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke- which really aren't that off from Darth Vader and Palpatine "The Emperor".

Two things to think about:

1. They didn't even refer to Palpatine by his name outside of scripts until The Phantom Menace. I wouldn't be surprised if Snoke is simply referred to as "The Supreme Leader".

2. Kylo is Ren what Darth was to Vader before 1999. If you swapped out their names, everyone would be complaining they didn't have "Kylo names" instead of "Darth names". They still could be Sith, they still could be something else entirely. Give it a chance, anyone outside of TFN will tell you Snoke is worlds better than Dooku!

 

[Thundercrack85]

Darth was his first name. Then it became a title. Retcon.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Darth was his first name. Then it became a title. Retcon.

And what a bad Retcon that was. Especially when you considering only Maul has really used it properly.

 

[Jaspertian1105]

I think this is more of Lucasfilm/JJ trying to get away from the Prequels than anything else and bring Star Wars back to it's original roots. Look at the names of the "big threes" we've had in each trilogy. I remember (vaguely) before the Phantom Menace came out, and being in Kindergarten watching the original films. Darth just seemed like Vader's first name and the Emperor was just like an embodiment of the Empire and the Darkside itself- not "Darth" Sidious. So in addition to getting names for our big three that are not too off from Han, Luke, and Leia, we have Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke- which really aren't that off from Darth Vader and Palpatine "The Emperor".

Two things to think about:

1. They didn't even refer to Palpatine by his name outside of scripts until The Phantom Menace. I wouldn't be surprised if Snoke is simply referred to as "The Supreme Leader".

2. Kylo is Ren what Darth was to Vader before 1999. If you swapped out their names, everyone would be complaining they didn't have "Kylo names" instead of "Darth names". They still could be Sith, they still could be something else entirely. Give it a chance, anyone outside of TFN will tell you Snoke is worlds better than Dooku!

I think Dooku was an homage to Chistopher Lee, it sounds a bit like Dracula. I always saw it from that angle, but i prefer Tyrannous more

 

[HarryOsborn]

i never understood that, was he just joking with him a bit? its the only time i heard a SW character call someone Darth, or maybe Sir Alec forgot Vaders name that day

Darth Vader's name was Darth Vader in 1977. "Luke's Father" appears alongside Obi-Wan and "Minch" (the original name for Yoda) in many of the early scripts for Empire. It was a late decision to merge the characters, theres ample evidence for this. Palpatine was also only referred to as a powerful wizard before the prequels (in the scripts of course) and Vader was only referenced as a "Lord of the Sith" in the Empire script once and maybe the Return of the Jedi script (the latter I can't say for certain).

 

[Jaspertian1105]

Darth was his first name. Then it became a title. Retcon.

seriously? never heard of that, wow you always learn something new indeed

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Darth Vader's name was Darth Vader in 1977. "Luke's Father" appears alongside Obi-Wan and "Minch" (the original name for Yoda) in many of the early scripts for Empire. It was a late decision to merge the characters, theres ample evidence for this. Palpatine was also only referred to as a powerful wizard before the prequels (in the scripts of course) and Vader was only referenced as a "Lord of the Sith" in the Empire script once and maybe the Return of the Jedi script (the latter I can't say for certain).

Lets not forget that little conversation between Tarkin and Vader.

 

[HarryOsborn]

I think Dooku was an homage to Chistopher Lee, it sounds a bit like Dracula. I always saw it from that angle, but i prefer Tyrannous more

Well duh, that's why he was "Count" Dooku, but even Count Draku, or Count Tyrannous would have been better than Dooku. It just rolls badly off the tongue.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dooku was worth it just to hear Frank Oz try to say it.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Lets not forget that little conversation between Tarkin and Vader.

What conversation? The one where he says "you're all that's left of their kind my friend"? Because Obi-Wan made it clear he trained "a young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of his before he turned to evil"

 

[Roose Bolton]

Even if it is a retcon, it's still established in-universe that there were Sith who went by the title of "Darth" before Palpatine, what with Plagueis and Bane. But they could also have it that the title of "Darth" is something exclusive to the line of Bane and that practice/title ended with Vader's death.

 

[Jaspertian1105]

Well duh, that's why he was "Count" Dooku, but even Count Draku, or Count Tyrannous would have been better than Dooku. It just rolls badly off the tongue.

Yeah it sounds a bit childish to be called like that, but well years of CW just made me forget this. But maybe Draku was WAY to obvious, and Tyrannous was hes alter ego, he couldn't go around calling himself openly like that. Only in the Syfo Dias ark the Jedi discover they true name, and linked him to the clone army and all that stuff

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What conversation? The one where he says "you're all that's left of their kind my friend"? Because Obi-Wan made it clear he trained "a young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of his before he turned to evil"

Yep. I like the idea of the Sith, but it is completely missing from the OT.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Star Wars names are always hit and miss.

Darth Vader, Maul, Revan work. Darth Sideous and Tyranus sound like something out of a rather uninspired fanfic.

 

[BatLobster]

That retcon honestly never bothered me. "Darth" invokes "Dark" and "Sith", so it feels natural as a title for Dark Lords of the Sith. When Obi-Wan calls him Darth, now to me it's like he's just referring to him as his Sith title (like General or Officer, etc.) almost to mock him. It's clearly a retcon, but then again so is the fact that Vader is Luke's father. I can suspend disbelief.

Yep. I like the idea of the Sith, but it is completely missing from the OT.

True. Although Vader was always referred to as a Dark Lord of the Sith dating back to the early drafts of the screenplay, and pretty sure either the first movie adaptation novel or Splinter of the Mind's Eye. So the term has always been circulating around fandom at least.

Edit: Did a little bit of digging, original 1977 Topps card:

Honestly, when you consider the fact that "Sith" as a concept was out there from Day 1, it makes way more sense that it's a Sith title. Rather than some former Jedi's first name being "Darth", which just so happens to sound a lot like the title of the type of evil warrior he later becomes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have to admit, every time I read the name, the South Park episode, "Snuke" goes through my mind.