Animals Are Not Ours To Wear

People Eating Tasty Animals. I thought thats what PETA realy stood for. I mean after all who wouldn't want to feel the warm juices coming out of a steak as you chew the succulant flesh of a cow.
 
Darko said:
I think that humans should stop killing and consuming animals for the sake of balance amongst our small world. Look ten years from now and "cows" might become extinct. Even if their cycle of cow breeding continues to run years from now, it's f**kin cruel to have a living, breathing creature live out his destiny as a f**kin hamburger.

:D :up:
 
Paradoxium said:
bluejake01, don't worry man no one is seriously forcing you to change your ways - don't take what is said too seriously - no one is "morally superior". Don't bother trying to change her views, from the start of the thread, she already made up her mind irregardless of the counter-arguments.
While this thread has been absolutely hilarious as well as provided some interesting discussions, Dox is absolutely right. In the end, you're dealing with a person who has reached zealot status in their beliefs on this subject. There is no reasoning with them, nor is there any respect on their part for others to live their lives the way they choose to. In their mind, they're right, everyone else is wrong; to the point that they can't stand not having everyone else think just like they do on this topic so much that they'll purposefully troll an internet message board over and over again as some sort of bizarre, personal form of justice no matter whether it's advantageous to their own cause or not. Zealots are usually like that: self-defeating. ;)

Cheers,
jag
 
Hey I have an idea for you Vegheads out there, Why don't you go back in time and tell the hunter gathers to stop eatting meat. Or tell those first farmers that herding cattle is wrong.
 
Master Blaster said:
Venice, shut the @#$% up! You dirt-eating, tree-hugging, New Age, crystal-wearing, John Tesh-loving, *****-whipped panzy!

I'm a vegetarian and I agree with points Venice makes, although the way he or she makes them isn't the best way. I'm far from a pansie or hippie.
 
Zev said:
So in other words, you think anyone that believes in the supernatural is an idiot and thus not as smart as you?

No, I think that anyone who has blind faith in organized religion is an idiot.
 
Once again, because I think it matters:

Our conciousness is all that truly exists. Matter is merely an illusion, an involuntary projection of our subconcious mind. Matter is the feeling of being limited. When we die, or in other words, when the illusion of our physical body can no longer resist the undeniable truth of the imaginary and temporary nature of the physical universe, our conciousness no longer feels limited, and expands, slowly and gradually, until it becomes one with the infinity of the universe. And our conciousness itself is merely the distinction of the inherent duality of all things, the distinction between wanting to remain separate from the rest of the universe, and simultaneously wanting to become one with the rest of the universe. Our apparent natural aging process is a representation of our life-long resistance towards the outside world, of our will to remain a separate individual with a personality of its own, and our death is merely the rest of the universe winning the battle over our ego, the perpetual battle between our selfishness and our selflessness.
 
TheSumOfGod said:
Once again, because I think it matters:

Our conciousness is all that truly exists. Matter is merely an illusion, an involuntary projection of our subconcious mind. Matter is the feeling of being limited. When we die, or in other words, when the illusion of our physical body can no longer resist the undeniable truth of the imaginary and temporary nature of the physical universe, our conciousness no longer feels limited, and expands, slowly and gradually, until it becomes one with the infinity of the universe. And our conciousness itself is merely the distinction of the inherent duality of all things, the distinction between wanting to remain separate from the rest of the universe, and simultaneously wanting to become one with the rest of the universe. Our apparent natural aging process is a representation of our life-long resistance towards the outside world, of our will to remain a separate individual with a personality of its own, and our death is merely the rest of the universe winning the battle over our ego, the perpetual battle between our selfishness and our selflessness.

Can you prove that? Have you experienced it firsthand?
Or are you forming a personal belief based on existing teachings and philosophies (eg: Kants' influence of the nouminal and phenominal realities on human consciousness) that happen to resonate with you personally? Is there faith involved there perhaps?
Just asking.
 
Or some inmate could rape him and kill him. :up: Since it seems he's so comfortable with murdering. :confused:
 
Did you read the maddox article? You're a murderer too even if you don't think so
 
bluejake01 said:
Yes...you see it was a joke. I was using the same extremism against her that she is using on everyone else.


oh. good show, old chap.
 
Darko said:
I think that humans should stop killing and consuming animals for the sake of balance amongst our small world. Look ten years from now and "cows" might become extinct. Even if their cycle of cow breeding continues to run years from now, it's f**kin cruel to have a living, breathing creature live out his destiny as a f**kin hamburger.
:rolleyes:
 
TheSumOfGod said:
Once again, because I think it matters:

Our conciousness is all that truly exists. Matter is merely an illusion, an involuntary projection of our subconcious mind. Matter is the feeling of being limited. When we die, or in other words, when the illusion of our physical body can no longer resist the undeniable truth of the imaginary and temporary nature of the physical universe, our conciousness no longer feels limited, and expands, slowly and gradually, until it becomes one with the infinity of the universe. And our conciousness itself is merely the distinction of the inherent duality of all things, the distinction between wanting to remain separate from the rest of the universe, and simultaneously wanting to become one with the rest of the universe. Our apparent natural aging process is a representation of our life-long resistance towards the outside world, of our will to remain a separate individual with a personality of its own, and our death is merely the rest of the universe winning the battle over our ego, the perpetual battle between our selfishness and our selflessness.

if you know this as such a truism, then why can't you manipulate your reality to your liking?
 
Unlike any of you, I grew up on a Fur Ranch, so I'm going to give my opinion, one with substance instead of tears or bloated masculinity.

My Grandfather, my mother's father, is the current President of the American Mink Council, a faction of the North American Fur Association. For the last 30+ years, he, along with my Grandmother, and then their two sons, have made a living out of the harvesting of mink & fox in Western Pennsylvania. Some of my earliest memories of life are wandering through the sheds and barns, inhaling the scent of the animals, amazed by their little lives. I've worked long, hot summers there, and bitter cold winters as well. I've fed, given water to, caught, killed, skinned, prepared those pelts...you name it. I've listened to the conversations I've had with my grandparents about the industry, the business, the difficulties, the struggles, the pride involved in doing what they do. I don't think any of you can say that. I've lived the life of a fur farmer...and it's not easy.

You know what the truth is? Fur ranching is no different from any occupation out there. Every morning, my 72-year old grandfather crawls out of bed with the sunrise, a hip needing replaced, carpal tunnel-ravaged wrists, hands, fingers, and arthritis ravaging his joints. My grandmother is not far behind, and they walk down to the farm, just like anyone else goes to their job, to begin their long, long day.

There's a lot that goes into managing a fur ranch. My grandfather is a genius. He's done a lot with his life...worked the coal mines, was a musician, an artist, a school-bus driver on the side, and now, for the last half of his life, a fur rancher. A businessman. Just making a living for him, his wife, his sons & daughters, his grandchildren. He works as hard or harder than anyone else I know...I'm 21 years old, a solidly-built young man and my pap will outwork me any day of the week.

I don't want to forget to mention that my grandparents and my uncles and their families are some of the nicest and most caring people I've ever met. Now you might think I'm saying that because they're family. This isn't true. I've met a lot of people in my short life, people from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds, from all walks of life. But I can genuinely tell you that I don't know more compassionate, more selfless, more hard-working and more well-rounded people than my family that's involved in the fur ranching industry.

PETA really angers me. The AFL angers me. They destroy people's livelihoods. It's like me taking out Honda dealerships so American companies can make more money. They're so outrageous, so flamboyant, so full of **** that it's not even funny.

You want to know what they've got right? The sizes of the cages some of these animals live in. That's about it. Everything else you read about is nearly a lie. I've spent hundreds of my days with these animals. I can honestly tell you that their living conditions are better than a lot of humans. They are fed continuously, at the same intervals, large heapings of feed, good, quality, nutritious food mixes. They're given plenty of water...in the hot days of summer, farm laborers...often young kids trying to make an extra buck...drag a rubber hose around a 20 acre farm 4 times a day to make sure the mink and fox have enough water. They're kept in pens, which are attached to boxes that have soft wood shavings for bedding. Their pens are cleaned out every summer and winter. Boxes have to be continuously repaired so they don't injure themselves or their coats. Each male mink has his own large-sized box & pen...a female one similar, although she will share her's with her young until they've grown to a size large enough to be separated, where they live in a pen & box with one other sibling. Their excrement is always being removed. The rows & rows of pens are housed under sheds that keep the hot sun from them and the cold snow off them in the winter.

One of the biggest arguments is the method of death imposed on these animals. I read on PETA's site how a fox or other animal remains alive after the inflicted method, "suffering excruciating pain" blah blah blah. HOW THE **** DO THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE??? It's complete bull****. Most mink are killed by gas inhalation. What happens is simple...the gas makes them slowly pass out, where eventually its potency causes death. Basically....they fall asleep and never wake up. If all of us were so lucky...

As for fox and the "rectal electrocution", this too is bull****. Once electrocuted, there is no feeling in the animal. It's as quick as a flick of the finger. They don't "endure a heart attack for five minutes" and that other bull**** that PETA tries to pass off. Don't let them blow the smoke up your skirt.

Fact is, the industry got hammered by hippies everywhere and so they changed. The old-timers may still break a neck here or there, but a lot of times it's so much quicker for the animal and safe for the handler.

I think it's very unfair what groups like PETA have inspired. About 6 years ago, my grandparents had to put their farm on the line just to finance security measures to safeguard attacks from groups like the ALF. I'm talking fences, barbed-wire, guards, dogs...this amidst one of the lowest periods of profit for fur ranchers worldwide. All to make a living. No retirement. No benefits. No pension plan or 401k. No vacations...definitely no vacations. Travel. Stress. And hard, hard work. My grandparents, well into their 70's, still wake up every morning to work that farm wiht my uncles. They hobble moreso than walk now, but they get there. When they pass, my uncles will pick up their reigns, and so on and so on. I applaud and respect unrelentlessy my grandparents for their hardwork and the legacy they've started and for the people they are. I cannot say the same for most of the other people I know in life...no matter what they make a career out of.

If anyone has REAL questions about the fur ranching industry, please feel free to ask....I'll be more than willing to give you a look from the inside.



BUY FUR!


Thanks.
 
Venice said:
Or some inmate could rape him and kill him. :up: Since it seems he's so comfortable with murdering. :confused:

Spoken with irrationalism like a true zealot.

jag
 
Rayne said:
Unlike any of you, I grew up on a Fur Ranch, so I'm going to give my opinion, one with substance instead of tears or bloated masculinity.

My Grandfather, my mother's father, is the current President of the American Mink Council, a faction of the North American Fur Association. For the last 30+ years, he, along with my Grandmother, and then their two sons, have made a living out of the harvesting of mink & fox in Western Pennsylvania. Some of my earliest memories of life are wandering through the sheds and barns, inhaling the scent of the animals, amazed by their little lives. I've worked long, hot summers there, and bitter cold winters as well. I've fed, given water to, caught, killed, skinned, prepared those pelts...you name it. I've listened to the conversations I've had with my grandparents about the industry, the business, the difficulties, the struggles, the pride involved in doing what they do. I don't think any of you can say that. I've lived the life of a fur farmer...and it's not easy.

You know what the truth is? Fur ranching is no different from any occupation out there. Every morning, my 72-year old grandfather crawls out of bed with the sunrise, a hip needing replaced, carpal tunnel-ravaged wrists, hands, fingers, and arthritis ravaging his joints. My grandmother is not far behind, and they walk down to the farm, just like anyone else goes to their job, to begin their long, long day.

There's a lot that goes into managing a fur ranch. My grandfather is a genius. He's done a lot with his life...worked the coal mines, was a musician, an artist, a school-bus driver on the side, and now, for the last half of his life, a fur rancher. A businessman. Just making a living for him, his wife, his sons & daughters, his grandchildren. He works as hard or harder than anyone else I know...I'm 21 years old, a solidly-built young man and my pap will outwork me any day of the week.

I don't want to forget to mention that my grandparents and my uncles and their families are some of the nicest and most caring people I've ever met. Now you might think I'm saying that because they're family. This isn't true. I've met a lot of people in my short life, people from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds, from all walks of life. But I can genuinely tell you that I don't know more compassionate, more selfless, more hard-working and more well-rounded people than my family that's involved in the fur ranching industry.

PETA really angers me. The AFL angers me. They destroy people's livelihoods. It's like me taking out Honda dealerships so American companies can make more money. They're so outrageous, so flamboyant, so full of **** that it's not even funny.

You want to know what they've got right? The sizes of the cages some of these animals live in. That's about it. Everything else you read about is nearly a lie. I've spent hundreds of my days with these animals. I can honestly tell you that their living conditions are better than a lot of humans. They are fed continuously, at the same intervals, large heapings of feed, good, quality, nutritious food mixes. They're given plenty of water...in the hot days of summer, farm laborers...often young kids trying to make an extra buck...drag a rubber hose around a 20 acre farm 4 times a day to make sure the mink and fox have enough water. They're kept in pens, which are attached to boxes that have soft wood shavings for bedding. Their pens are cleaned out every summer and winter. Boxes have to be continuously repaired so they don't injure themselves or their coats. Each male mink has his own large-sized box & pen...a female one similar, although she will share her's with her young until they've grown to a size large enough to be separated, where they live in a pen & box with one other sibling. Their excrement is always being removed. The rows & rows of pens are housed under sheds that keep the hot sun from them and the cold snow off them in the winter.

One of the biggest arguments is the method of death imposed on these animals. I read on PETA's site how a fox or other animal remains alive after the inflicted method, "suffering excruciating pain" blah blah blah. HOW THE **** DO THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE??? It's complete bull****. Most mink are killed by gas inhalation. What happens is simple...the gas makes them slowly pass out, where eventually its potency causes death. Basically....they fall asleep and never wake up. If all of us were so lucky...

As for fox and the "rectal electrocution", this too is bull****. Once electrocuted, there is no feeling in the animal. It's as quick as a flick of the finger. They don't "endure a heart attack for five minutes" and that other bull**** that PETA tries to pass off. Don't let them blow the smoke up your skirt.

Fact is, the industry got hammered by hippies everywhere and so they changed. The old-timers may still break a neck here or there, but a lot of times it's so much quicker for the animal and safe for the handler.

I think it's very unfair what groups like PETA have inspired. About 6 years ago, my grandparents had to put their farm on the line just to finance security measures to safeguard attacks from groups like the ALF. I'm talking fences, barbed-wire, guards, dogs...this amidst one of the lowest periods of profit for fur ranchers worldwide. All to make a living. No retirement. No benefits. No pension plan or 401k. No vacations...definitely no vacations. Travel. Stress. And hard, hard work. My grandparents, well into their 70's, still wake up every morning to work that farm wiht my uncles. They hobble moreso than walk now, but they get there. When they pass, my uncles will pick up their reigns, and so on and so on. I applaud and respect unrelentlessy my grandparents for their hardwork and the legacy they've started and for the people they are. I cannot say the same for most of the other people I know in life...no matter what they make a career out of.

If anyone has REAL questions about the fur ranching industry, please feel free to ask....I'll be more than willing to give you a look from the inside.



BUY FUR!


Thanks.

Wow, thank you for that very inciteful post. I applaud your family for being such hard working people.
 
Rayne said:
Unlike any of you, I grew up on a Fur Ranch, so I'm going to give my opinion, one with substance instead of tears or bloated masculinity.

My Grandfather, my mother's father, is the current President of the American Mink Council, a faction of the North American Fur Association. For the last 30+ years, he, along with my Grandmother, and then their two sons, have made a living out of the harvesting of mink & fox in Western Pennsylvania. Some of my earliest memories of life are wandering through the sheds and barns, inhaling the scent of the animals, amazed by their little lives. I've worked long, hot summers there, and bitter cold winters as well. I've fed, given water to, caught, killed, skinned, prepared those pelts...you name it. I've listened to the conversations I've had with my grandparents about the industry, the business, the difficulties, the struggles, the pride involved in doing what they do. I don't think any of you can say that. I've lived the life of a fur farmer...and it's not easy.

You know what the truth is? Fur ranching is no different from any occupation out there. Every morning, my 72-year old grandfather crawls out of bed with the sunrise, a hip needing replaced, carpal tunnel-ravaged wrists, hands, fingers, and arthritis ravaging his joints. My grandmother is not far behind, and they walk down to the farm, just like anyone else goes to their job, to begin their long, long day.

There's a lot that goes into managing a fur ranch. My grandfather is a genius. He's done a lot with his life...worked the coal mines, was a musician, an artist, a school-bus driver on the side, and now, for the last half of his life, a fur rancher. A businessman. Just making a living for him, his wife, his sons & daughters, his grandchildren. He works as hard or harder than anyone else I know...I'm 21 years old, a solidly-built young man and my pap will outwork me any day of the week.

I don't want to forget to mention that my grandparents and my uncles and their families are some of the nicest and most caring people I've ever met. Now you might think I'm saying that because they're family. This isn't true. I've met a lot of people in my short life, people from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds, from all walks of life. But I can genuinely tell you that I don't know more compassionate, more selfless, more hard-working and more well-rounded people than my family that's involved in the fur ranching industry.

PETA really angers me. The AFL angers me. They destroy people's livelihoods. It's like me taking out Honda dealerships so American companies can make more money. They're so outrageous, so flamboyant, so full of **** that it's not even funny.

You want to know what they've got right? The sizes of the cages some of these animals live in. That's about it. Everything else you read about is nearly a lie. I've spent hundreds of my days with these animals. I can honestly tell you that their living conditions are better than a lot of humans. They are fed continuously, at the same intervals, large heapings of feed, good, quality, nutritious food mixes. They're given plenty of water...in the hot days of summer, farm laborers...often young kids trying to make an extra buck...drag a rubber hose around a 20 acre farm 4 times a day to make sure the mink and fox have enough water. They're kept in pens, which are attached to boxes that have soft wood shavings for bedding. Their pens are cleaned out every summer and winter. Boxes have to be continuously repaired so they don't injure themselves or their coats. Each male mink has his own large-sized box & pen...a female one similar, although she will share her's with her young until they've grown to a size large enough to be separated, where they live in a pen & box with one other sibling. Their excrement is always being removed. The rows & rows of pens are housed under sheds that keep the hot sun from them and the cold snow off them in the winter.

One of the biggest arguments is the method of death imposed on these animals. I read on PETA's site how a fox or other animal remains alive after the inflicted method, "suffering excruciating pain" blah blah blah. HOW THE **** DO THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE??? It's complete bull****. Most mink are killed by gas inhalation. What happens is simple...the gas makes them slowly pass out, where eventually its potency causes death. Basically....they fall asleep and never wake up. If all of us were so lucky...

As for fox and the "rectal electrocution", this too is bull****. Once electrocuted, there is no feeling in the animal. It's as quick as a flick of the finger. They don't "endure a heart attack for five minutes" and that other bull**** that PETA tries to pass off. Don't let them blow the smoke up your skirt.

Fact is, the industry got hammered by hippies everywhere and so they changed. The old-timers may still break a neck here or there, but a lot of times it's so much quicker for the animal and safe for the handler.

I think it's very unfair what groups like PETA have inspired. About 6 years ago, my grandparents had to put their farm on the line just to finance security measures to safeguard attacks from groups like the ALF. I'm talking fences, barbed-wire, guards, dogs...this amidst one of the lowest periods of profit for fur ranchers worldwide. All to make a living. No retirement. No benefits. No pension plan or 401k. No vacations...definitely no vacations. Travel. Stress. And hard, hard work. My grandparents, well into their 70's, still wake up every morning to work that farm wiht my uncles. They hobble moreso than walk now, but they get there. When they pass, my uncles will pick up their reigns, and so on and so on. I applaud and respect unrelentlessy my grandparents for their hardwork and the legacy they've started and for the people they are. I cannot say the same for most of the other people I know in life...no matter what they make a career out of.

If anyone has REAL questions about the fur ranching industry, please feel free to ask....I'll be more than willing to give you a look from the inside.



BUY FUR!


Thanks.


excellent post :up:
 
Rayne said:
Unlike any of you, I grew up on a Fur Ranch, so I'm going to give my opinion, one with substance instead of tears or bloated masculinity.

My Grandfather, my mother's father, is the current President of the American Mink Council, a faction of the North American Fur Association. For the last 30+ years, he, along with my Grandmother, and then their two sons, have made a living out of the harvesting of mink & fox in Western Pennsylvania. Some of my earliest memories of life are wandering through the sheds and barns, inhaling the scent of the animals, amazed by their little lives. I've worked long, hot summers there, and bitter cold winters as well. I've fed, given water to, caught, killed, skinned, prepared those pelts...you name it. I've listened to the conversations I've had with my grandparents about the industry, the business, the difficulties, the struggles, the pride involved in doing what they do. I don't think any of you can say that. I've lived the life of a fur farmer...and it's not easy.

You know what the truth is? Fur ranching is no different from any occupation out there. Every morning, my 72-year old grandfather crawls out of bed with the sunrise, a hip needing replaced, carpal tunnel-ravaged wrists, hands, fingers, and arthritis ravaging his joints. My grandmother is not far behind, and they walk down to the farm, just like anyone else goes to their job, to begin their long, long day.

There's a lot that goes into managing a fur ranch. My grandfather is a genius. He's done a lot with his life...worked the coal mines, was a musician, an artist, a school-bus driver on the side, and now, for the last half of his life, a fur rancher. A businessman. Just making a living for him, his wife, his sons & daughters, his grandchildren. He works as hard or harder than anyone else I know...I'm 21 years old, a solidly-built young man and my pap will outwork me any day of the week.

I don't want to forget to mention that my grandparents and my uncles and their families are some of the nicest and most caring people I've ever met. Now you might think I'm saying that because they're family. This isn't true. I've met a lot of people in my short life, people from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds, from all walks of life. But I can genuinely tell you that I don't know more compassionate, more selfless, more hard-working and more well-rounded people than my family that's involved in the fur ranching industry.

PETA really angers me. The AFL angers me. They destroy people's livelihoods. It's like me taking out Honda dealerships so American companies can make more money. They're so outrageous, so flamboyant, so full of **** that it's not even funny.

You want to know what they've got right? The sizes of the cages some of these animals live in. That's about it. Everything else you read about is nearly a lie. I've spent hundreds of my days with these animals. I can honestly tell you that their living conditions are better than a lot of humans. They are fed continuously, at the same intervals, large heapings of feed, good, quality, nutritious food mixes. They're given plenty of water...in the hot days of summer, farm laborers...often young kids trying to make an extra buck...drag a rubber hose around a 20 acre farm 4 times a day to make sure the mink and fox have enough water. They're kept in pens, which are attached to boxes that have soft wood shavings for bedding. Their pens are cleaned out every summer and winter. Boxes have to be continuously repaired so they don't injure themselves or their coats. Each male mink has his own large-sized box & pen...a female one similar, although she will share her's with her young until they've grown to a size large enough to be separated, where they live in a pen & box with one other sibling. Their excrement is always being removed. The rows & rows of pens are housed under sheds that keep the hot sun from them and the cold snow off them in the winter.

One of the biggest arguments is the method of death imposed on these animals. I read on PETA's site how a fox or other animal remains alive after the inflicted method, "suffering excruciating pain" blah blah blah. HOW THE **** DO THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE??? It's complete bull****. Most mink are killed by gas inhalation. What happens is simple...the gas makes them slowly pass out, where eventually its potency causes death. Basically....they fall asleep and never wake up. If all of us were so lucky...

As for fox and the "rectal electrocution", this too is bull****. Once electrocuted, there is no feeling in the animal. It's as quick as a flick of the finger. They don't "endure a heart attack for five minutes" and that other bull**** that PETA tries to pass off. Don't let them blow the smoke up your skirt.

Fact is, the industry got hammered by hippies everywhere and so they changed. The old-timers may still break a neck here or there, but a lot of times it's so much quicker for the animal and safe for the handler.

I think it's very unfair what groups like PETA have inspired. About 6 years ago, my grandparents had to put their farm on the line just to finance security measures to safeguard attacks from groups like the ALF. I'm talking fences, barbed-wire, guards, dogs...this amidst one of the lowest periods of profit for fur ranchers worldwide. All to make a living. No retirement. No benefits. No pension plan or 401k. No vacations...definitely no vacations. Travel. Stress. And hard, hard work. My grandparents, well into their 70's, still wake up every morning to work that farm wiht my uncles. They hobble moreso than walk now, but they get there. When they pass, my uncles will pick up their reigns, and so on and so on. I applaud and respect unrelentlessy my grandparents for their hardwork and the legacy they've started and for the people they are. I cannot say the same for most of the other people I know in life...no matter what they make a career out of.

If anyone has REAL questions about the fur ranching industry, please feel free to ask....I'll be more than willing to give you a look from the inside.



BUY FUR!


Thanks.
One of the best posts on the hype....ever :up:
 
Rayne said:
Unlike any of you, I grew up on a Fur Ranch, so I'm going to give my opinion, one with substance instead of tears or bloated masculinity.

My Grandfather, my mother's father, is the current President of the American Mink Council, a faction of the North American Fur Association. For the last 30+ years, he, along with my Grandmother, and then their two sons, have made a living out of the harvesting of mink & fox in Western Pennsylvania. Some of my earliest memories of life are wandering through the sheds and barns, inhaling the scent of the animals, amazed by their little lives. I've worked long, hot summers there, and bitter cold winters as well. I've fed, given water to, caught, killed, skinned, prepared those pelts...you name it. I've listened to the conversations I've had with my grandparents about the industry, the business, the difficulties, the struggles, the pride involved in doing what they do. I don't think any of you can say that. I've lived the life of a fur farmer...and it's not easy.

You know what the truth is? Fur ranching is no different from any occupation out there. Every morning, my 72-year old grandfather crawls out of bed with the sunrise, a hip needing replaced, carpal tunnel-ravaged wrists, hands, fingers, and arthritis ravaging his joints. My grandmother is not far behind, and they walk down to the farm, just like anyone else goes to their job, to begin their long, long day.

There's a lot that goes into managing a fur ranch. My grandfather is a genius. He's done a lot with his life...worked the coal mines, was a musician, an artist, a school-bus driver on the side, and now, for the last half of his life, a fur rancher. A businessman. Just making a living for him, his wife, his sons & daughters, his grandchildren. He works as hard or harder than anyone else I know...I'm 21 years old, a solidly-built young man and my pap will outwork me any day of the week.

I don't want to forget to mention that my grandparents and my uncles and their families are some of the nicest and most caring people I've ever met. Now you might think I'm saying that because they're family. This isn't true. I've met a lot of people in my short life, people from all over the world, from all kinds of backgrounds, from all walks of life. But I can genuinely tell you that I don't know more compassionate, more selfless, more hard-working and more well-rounded people than my family that's involved in the fur ranching industry.

PETA really angers me. The AFL angers me. They destroy people's livelihoods. It's like me taking out Honda dealerships so American companies can make more money. They're so outrageous, so flamboyant, so full of **** that it's not even funny.

You want to know what they've got right? The sizes of the cages some of these animals live in. That's about it. Everything else you read about is nearly a lie. I've spent hundreds of my days with these animals. I can honestly tell you that their living conditions are better than a lot of humans. They are fed continuously, at the same intervals, large heapings of feed, good, quality, nutritious food mixes. They're given plenty of water...in the hot days of summer, farm laborers...often young kids trying to make an extra buck...drag a rubber hose around a 20 acre farm 4 times a day to make sure the mink and fox have enough water. They're kept in pens, which are attached to boxes that have soft wood shavings for bedding. Their pens are cleaned out every summer and winter. Boxes have to be continuously repaired so they don't injure themselves or their coats. Each male mink has his own large-sized box & pen...a female one similar, although she will share her's with her young until they've grown to a size large enough to be separated, where they live in a pen & box with one other sibling. Their excrement is always being removed. The rows & rows of pens are housed under sheds that keep the hot sun from them and the cold snow off them in the winter.

One of the biggest arguments is the method of death imposed on these animals. I read on PETA's site how a fox or other animal remains alive after the inflicted method, "suffering excruciating pain" blah blah blah. HOW THE **** DO THEY KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE??? It's complete bull****. Most mink are killed by gas inhalation. What happens is simple...the gas makes them slowly pass out, where eventually its potency causes death. Basically....they fall asleep and never wake up. If all of us were so lucky...

As for fox and the "rectal electrocution", this too is bull****. Once electrocuted, there is no feeling in the animal. It's as quick as a flick of the finger. They don't "endure a heart attack for five minutes" and that other bull**** that PETA tries to pass off. Don't let them blow the smoke up your skirt.

Fact is, the industry got hammered by hippies everywhere and so they changed. The old-timers may still break a neck here or there, but a lot of times it's so much quicker for the animal and safe for the handler.

I think it's very unfair what groups like PETA have inspired. About 6 years ago, my grandparents had to put their farm on the line just to finance security measures to safeguard attacks from groups like the ALF. I'm talking fences, barbed-wire, guards, dogs...this amidst one of the lowest periods of profit for fur ranchers worldwide. All to make a living. No retirement. No benefits. No pension plan or 401k. No vacations...definitely no vacations. Travel. Stress. And hard, hard work. My grandparents, well into their 70's, still wake up every morning to work that farm wiht my uncles. They hobble moreso than walk now, but they get there. When they pass, my uncles will pick up their reigns, and so on and so on. I applaud and respect unrelentlessy my grandparents for their hardwork and the legacy they've started and for the people they are. I cannot say the same for most of the other people I know in life...no matter what they make a career out of.

If anyone has REAL questions about the fur ranching industry, please feel free to ask....I'll be more than willing to give you a look from the inside.



BUY FUR!


Thanks.

So, what if we oppose the fact that the animals are being killed? Is that wrong. I'm sorry if I feel that it's inhumane. Jesus Christ. You said at the beginning of the thread that you wouldn't play to tears of whatever. Okay, your grandpa works hard. Good for him. So did mine. I'm sorry that ALF is ruining his business, although I can understand ALF actions. But you make it out as PETA and ALF are only out to hurt your grandfather. We care about animals a great deal. We see these practices as inhumane. If you have a problem with that, then move to a country where we can't be able to voice our disapproval. Listen, I don't think you're wrong or I'm right. It's all my opinion. You seem to think PETA is wrong and you are right. And that's the difference.
 

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