The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else think they overrated Harvey Dent's importance to the story?

[milost]

No, the point is to make it FEEL like Batman can be anyone to the people Gotham, thus inspiring them. It's a reminder that the actions of the individual do matter and can change society for the better. Heck, that's what inspires US about Batman as fans! When you were a kid, it felt like you could be Batman when you grew up, even though it's ridiculous. It's just taking one of the major, core appeals of Batman as a character and putting it right into the fabric of the story. I think that's awesome.

As far as TDKT characterization vs. the comics/BTAS (essentially one and the same IMO), it's simply the difference between a more or less static character (staunch as you said) and a more dynamic character arc. It's fine to prefer one over the other. Some hardcore Bond fans I know hated Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace because they didn't want to see Bond so vulnerable and flawed. They just wanted to see classic, smooth, professional Bond where nothing gets in the way of the mission. If you prefer your Batman to be always be the fully formed Batman, the perpetual badass, that's a fine opinion to have. And that's probably what we're going to get next. I love that Batman too, who here doesn't? I don't see TDKT as better or worse, just different...and a bit more human and relatable. It's something that fits if you're trying to tell the story with a more "real world" bent to it.

My parents were killed. I'm angry and I want to take matters into my own hands . . . until my childhood friend ***** slaps it out of me. So now, I travel the world to find myself (i.e. have other characters tell me what to do too).

So I'm creating this ghoulish Batman image to strike fear in the hearts of criminals . . . but also want people to feel empowered by me to stand for what's right themselves without my image! Livin' the dream just like my dad would have done!

Because, see, I don't want to do this forever. I want to spend time with my childhood friend that is only interested in District Attorneys. My plan is to make these people take up the reigns so I can live with her and have a "happy" life touring the Italian vacation sites (that, again, another character tells me he'd like to see).

Even though I'm good at it and this is the only thing I can really do, Batman is taking it's toll on me, I don't want to do this forever. Rachel is my purpose and Harvey Dent is that hero! These copy cats are at it again, doing what I don't want the people to do! I want them to stand for themselves! I want people like Harvey Dent. Wait, Rachel is dead? There's this new type of random crime (and villainy that boasts to be around for ever) that I never even thought about in my crusade?

Oh crap, can't be the hero. Well, Rachel is dead, my chance at a "normal", "happy" life is for naught. Dent has snapped, Joker was sorta right. I still have a responsibility to uphold, time to be a darker, edgier character. One that can take on the murders because I now understand that I CANNOT be the hero of this city. I'm not the symbol of hope, it's just not possible. Instead, I shall become a silent guardian of these people, their Dark Knight, this is kinda cool and edgy . . . .


. . . . for one night. Oh crap. This crazy lie worked for 8 years. My life has no meaning. Damn it. Well, time to throw myself in this clean Nuclear Fusion project that this hot, but suspicious foreign lady wants me to take on. Oh crap, wait a second, this thing can be a bomb! I have the means to drown it and save lives?!? Nah, I'm just going to sit on it and keep it in storage until something bad happens. Time to rot in my Manor and practice being Howard Hughes because Christopher Nolan wanted to make a biopic about him! I wanna die!!!

Woah, this crazy lady that desecrated my mom's pearls (the same pearls that I guess survived the crime scene . . . and the Mansion fire) is kinda hawt. She steals but, maaaan, I got a hunch that this criminal has a heart of gold. Wait, who is this kid? He knows who I am? What the? All the precautions I took? All that exposition? Damn it! Oh well, he's an orphan too . . . I can trust him. Look what happened when I trusted that authority figure in the last story!

So, I gotta be Batman again. You know what, I can die as Batman now! Yippe! Bye Alfred! You say the city doesn't need me . . . when yeah, it clearly does. Time to team up with this girl I barely know and fight this threat I barely know. Wait, what happened to all my skills and prep time!?! NOLEN NOOOOOO!

Well, I got my back broke. This is it, time to die. Oh wait, this mumbling psycho has a plan for Gotham's complete destruction too? Gotta learn my fear again. I've come back to stop you Bane . . . but with a plan. My lie in the last film worked out so well in this movie, that, imma do it again. Time to become a false martyr! These people in Gotham are idiots, they don't have what it takes to fight for what is right! You know what, that orphan cop seems to know his stuff. I mean, I don't really know him, but these characters like to tell me what to do since I don't have any morality or determination of my own. Rachel tells me what I want. Alfred. Ra's. Orphan Blake etc. etc. I need a break. I'm taking Cat lady on vacation. Oh wow, they made a statue of me! I guess I really am a hero! Still, Orphan boy has to take on this mantle and have everything, I'm done and Batman must continue. That's what I set out for, Batman Forever! Good luck future Batman! Good luck honing in all those skills with a financially bankrupt city that's in ruins and a new LOS 3.0 on the way! I'm off to Italy to fulfill my butler's fantasy! My father would be so proud that I ran the company into the ground, shirked my responsibilities and "killed myself" (and my family name), put the responsibilities on other people's shoulders, etc. It's too bad I couldn't find the balance of being Batman AND Bruce Wayne instead of being Italian cafe, tourist guy. Oh well, I got my "happy ending"!




Our hero, "TDKT Batman". He's not a hero . . . sometimes. He wants the city to take on crime without Batman . . . sometimes (or until his woman dies). He's the hero that the city sometimes deserves and sometimes needs right now, but they most definitely will not hunt him and he definitely can't take it (case in point, pracitcing his archery skills in his bedroom while his butler makes his bed for him). He can truly be anyone, just as long as they don't wear hockey pads and aren't fat with guns and don't kill (occasionally).

 

[milost]

Well look, I was being cute about it but the truth is I was legitimately curious

I thought you were being cheeky with me, sorry. It's hard to tell sometimes. Especially when I didn't know what you were talking about initially and find a link to your posts from you.

 

[Shikamaru]

My parents were killed. I'm angry and I want to take matters into my own hands . . . until my childhood friend ***** slaps it out of me. So now, I travel the world to find myself (i.e. have other characters tell me what to do too).

So I'm creating this ghoulish Batman image to strike fear in the hearts of criminals . . . but also want people to feel empowered by me to stand for what's right themselves without my image! Livin' the dream just like my dad would have done!

Because, see, I don't want to do this forever. I want to spend time with my childhood friend that is only interested in District Attorneys. My plan is to make these people take up the reigns so I can live with her and have a "happy" life touring the Italian vacation sites (that, again, another character tells me he'd like to see).

Batman is taking it's toll on me, I don't want to do this forever. Rachel is my purpose and Harvey Dent is that hero! These copy cats are at it again, doing what I don't want the people to do! I want them to stand for themselves! I want people like Harvey Dent. Wait, Rachel is dead? There's this new type of random crime (and villainy that boasts to be around for ever) that I never even thought about in my crusade?

Oh crap, can't be the hero. Well, Rachel is dead, my chance at a "normal", "happy" life is for naught. Dent has snapped, Joker was sorta right. I still have a responsibility to uphold, time to be a darker, edgier character. One that can take on the murders because I now understand that I CANNOT be the hero of this city. I'm not the symbol of hope, it's just not possible. Instead, I shall become a silent guardian of these people, their Dark Knight, this is kinda cool and edgy . . . .


. . . . for one night. Oh crap. This crazy lie worked for 8 years. My life has no meaning. Damn it. Well, time to throw myself in this clean Nuclear Fusion project that this hot, but suspicious foreign lady wants me to take on. Oh crap, wait a second, this thing can be a bomb! I have the means to drown it and save lives?!? Nah, I'm just going to sit on it and keep it in storage until something bad happens. Time to rot in my Manor and practice being Howard Hughes because Christopher Nolan wanted to make a biopic about him! I wanna die!!!

Woah, this crazy lady that desecrated my mom's pearls (the same pearls that I guess survived the crime scene . . . and the Mansion fire) is kinda hawt. She steals but, maaaan, I got a hunch that this criminal has a heart of gold. Wait, who is this kid? He knows who I am? What the? All the precautions I took? All that exposition? Damn it! Oh well, he's an orphan too . . . I can trust him. Look what happened when I trusted that authority figure in the last story!

So, I gotta be Batman again. You know what, I can die as Batman now! Yippe! Bye Alfred! You say the city doesn't need me . . . when yeah, it clearly does. Time to team up with this girl I barely know and fight this threat I barely know. Wait, what happened to all my skills and prep time!?! NOLEN NOOOOOO!

Well, I got my back broke. This is it, time to die. Oh wait, this mumbling psycho has a plan for Gotham's complete destruction too? Gotta learn my fear again. I've come back to stop you Bane . . . but with a plan. My lie in the last film worked out so well in this movie, that, imma do it again. Time to become a false martyr! These people in Gotham are idiots, they don't have what it takes to fight for what is right! You know what, that orphan cop seems to know his stuff. I mean, I don't really know him, but these characters like to tell me what to do since I don't have any morality or determination of my own. Rachel tells me what I want. Alfred. Ra's. Orphan Blake etc. etc. I need a break. I'm taking Cat lady on vacation. Oh wow, they made a statue of me! I guess I really am a hero! Still, Orphan boy has to take on this mantle and have everything, I'm done and Batman must continue. That's what I set out for, Batman Forever! Good luck future Batman! Good luck honing in all those skills with a financially bankrupt city that's in ruins and a new LOS 3.0 on the way! I'm off to Italy to fulfill my butler's fantasy! My father would be so proud that I ran the company into the ground, shirked my responsibilities and "killed myself" (and my family name), put the responsibilities on other people's shoulders, etc. It's too bad I couldn't find the balance of being Batman AND Bruce Wayne instead of being Italian cafe, tourist guy. Oh well, I got my "happy ending"!




Our hero, "TDKT Batman". He's not a hero . . . sometimes. He wants the city to take on crime without Batman . . . sometimes (or until his woman dies). He's the hero that the city sometimes deserves and sometimes needs right now, but they most definitely will not hunt him and he definitely can't take it (case in point, pracitcing his archery skills in his bedroom while his butler makes his bed for him). He can truly be anyone, just as long as they don't wear hockey pads and aren't fat with guns and don't kill (occasionally).

Which kinda goes back to what I said earlier.

Ugh, I'm so annoyed by the "it was Nolan's vision" excuse at this point. It isn't even a proper argument. It is a straw man.

Yes, Nolan should be (and was) allowed to do with TDKR however he pleased. No one was stopping him from doing whatever he wanted. He legally and rightfully has the right to do whatever he wants with his films. If he wanted TDKR to be entirely about Bruce taking a s***, he should have every right to do that. However, Nolan whatever he wants does not automatically mean any of the following:

-That the story is good.
-That there weren't much better ideas than what we got.
-That the story works in in the context of this universe.
-That the story fits with what came before (in this case, BB and TDK).

My argument has never been that Nolan shouldn't have been allowed to do TDKR the way he did, but that what he did was stupid. The very first impressions/criticisms I had of TDKR was how much it didn't work as a sequel. Generally speaking, I think it is a bad sequel. I think it has far more problems as a sequel than it does as both a Batman film and just a film. Nothing with the film fits in the context of the universe IMO. The characters are out of character based on what we've seen of them in BB/TDK and entire themes/messages/character arcs are contradicted or ignored.

In other words, I wasn't happy with TDKR because it went against Nolan's "vision". The vision that was already established - BB/TDK. Not everything has to be like the comics, but you have to at least play by the rules of whatever universe you established. TDKR, in my honest opinion, did not.

It is one of the most annoying ad hominem on these boards. I've seen people use it even on those that have script issues. It is getting ridiculous.

 

[milost]

Pretty much.

I know we as people change their minds, but DAMN. I really wonder what's next for him. I fear for Selina because Touristman might have repressed trauma from those childhood murders that he might want to take out on her. His butler certainly didn't seem to get him any help.

 

[BatLobster]

I thought you were being cheeky with me, sorry. It's hard to tell sometimes. Especially when I didn't know what you were talking about initially and find a link to your posts from you.

It was a misunderstanding on both sides I guess. I'm glad we cleared that up even if we didn't settle the original dispute.

As for your other post, it just sounds like overall you're not the biggest fan of how Bruce was portrayed across all three movies (save the end of TDK). And I've already said, that's fine. But I could take your post, remove the sarcasm, add a little insight, and I could turn it into a straight character analysis. But you don't want to hear that as much as I don't feel like typing that right now.

I'll say this, Bruce Wayne is no saint. For all the good he does, he is a very flawed individual. Just because this series tried to make sense of his mission a little more and give it some parameters and objectives, it doesn't change the fact that at the heart of it you have one pretty damaged guy, with a somewhat distorted worldview who had no idea what the ramifications of his mission would be, both on himself and his city.

That's my last post for the night though, sleep beckons.

 

[milost]

It was a misunderstanding on both sides I guess. I'm glad we cleared that up even if we didn't settle the original dispute.

Yeah, no worries. I just wasn't sure how was I supposed to know? There's so many posts, pages and different discussions going on and I do try to respond to all of them. I didn't even know it was an issue, let alone what kind of tone you were using (sincere curiosity or confrontational).

I'm checking the art book tomorrow. Either way, I gots no beef with ya. I never have. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong.

As for your other post, it just sounds like overall you're not the biggest fan of how Bruce was portrayed across all three movies (save the end of TDK). And I've already said, that's fine. But I could take your post, remove the sarcasm, add a little insight, and it would instantly become an interesting character analysis.

Begins and the beginning of Dark Knight is all about learning. Does the puppy love for a girl that doesn't even have a romantic interest in him bug me a bit? Sure. But it's that same trope of grappling with the mantle. Am I the hero or aren't I? Superman has done it, Spider-Man has done it, even past Batman interpretations have done it. Bruce was wet behind the ears, it was his first year with this new persona and totally appropriate. Remember, Nolan and Goyer made it sound like a young, year one Batman was their thing until 2011 came around. They were pretty adamant about it. Then all of the sudden, "NOPE, TIME TO JUMP FORWARD. OLD, TIRED AND LOOKIN' TO DIE". The thing is, this persona had so much potential in Begins (potential that is finally realized at the climax of The Dark Knight) . . . that is squandered, twisted and contradicted. We're essentially taken back, NOT forward and go through unneeded nonsense. The character doesn't evolve, he devolves.

Want the 8 year gap? Want the retirement in the end? Sure, they're good ideas, great ideas. Show me the character earned it in the writing. Show me that Batman is killing him, not radon beneath Wayne Manor and his dad's funky pajamas. You can grey his ethical code, that "Batman law", but don't murk up and contradict his motivations that he set out with again and again and again. The character can't stand for everything, he either thinks the system is broken and doesn't work or he doesn't. He either thinks the city can stand on it's own two feet or he doesn't. He either is the mask and the man, or he isn't.

 

[Green Goblin]

And so Milost's one man crusade against TDKR continues...

Tune in tomorrow folks for another circular TDKR debate!

 

[shauner111]

You know what they say eh? Love and hate? It's the same thing

 

[james-in-cali]

I'm pleasantly shocked how civil this conversation is, its a great read.

 

[Team Andino]

I love TDKR for what it is even though I wish some things had been done differently. The major thing I was definitely underwhelmed by was how minor the whole Dent cover up wound up being after how important it felt after TDK ended. After Blake reacted negatively to the news towards Gordon it's never brought up again and there's no impact felt at all.

It just makes me wish I could of seen Jim go through the issues of the immediate fallout from the ending of TDK. Like how his wife ups and takes the kids after Jim is publicly claiming Dent to be a hero despite what he did to his own family. It just feels like a missed opportunity to follow up on a great set up.

 

[milost]

It just makes me wish I could of seen Jim go through the issues of the immediate fallout from the ending of TDK. Like how his wife ups and takes the kids after Jim is publicly claiming Dent to be a hero despite what he did to his own family. It just feels like a missed opportunity to follow up on a great set up.

Yeah.

And see Gordon having to "hunt" Batman and prove to the public that he's making a sincere attempt at tracking him down. If the GCPD was anything like their Chicago counterparts, they'd want Batman's head on a silver platter for what he did to Wuertz and Dent (not to mention the mockery he made out of Gotham's finest during the Prewitt siege when he tied them up on the side of a building).

That dynamic and pressure on Gordon (and Bruce) would have been great to see. A true thriller. With the leads and investigations, the toll it would take on Gordon would be devastating. As the public takes on a life of it's own and gets closer and closer to Batman, imagine him having to somehow tip Bruce off (when he doesn't even have something like the signal anymore). A sort of mirror of went on with Reese, Wayne and Gordon. Then there's the drama of the possibility of the city and GCPD catching wind of Gordon's lies . . . coulda been great stuff instead of "well, it just worked, fast forward 8 and shut up". Ramirez and Gordon didn't even get a closure. I'd prefer seeing something like that play out instead of someone like Foley.

 

[shauner111]

I get that criticism. But it doesn't bother me, because i have to ask myself "what else could they have done, and would you have enjoyed them putting the focus on that instead of Bruce's journey back to Gotham?" Probably not. The alternative is having both by stretching the film out to 3 hours plus. But i get that Nolan didn't want audiences to feel like it was a chore to get through the film. Which it is sometimes for Lord of the Rings or whatever, as good as they are.

What else do they show? Gotham citizens (extras) reacting and discussing it amongst themselves about the truth of Dent and Gordon's lying. After the cheesy extras shown in Begins and Knight, i didnt mind the decision to exclude this. Ill settle with using my imagination.

Even if TDK had a sequel where it wasn't too long after those events...im sure it would have been several months to a year later and Gordon's wife would have been gone by the start of the film anyhow. When she left, it was most likely after that night when Dent went crazy.

I will however, agree with milost about seeing a movie after TDK where Gordon is under incredible pressure. A hunt is on for the Batman's head. This is why i think Nygma could have worked if he was a suave, private investigator. Gordon has to co-exist with the guy he can't stand, and tip off batman when he gets the chance. The difference between me and milost though, is i wouldn't do this story to replace TDKR. I would just have it lined up so it doesn't contradict the conclusion Nolan gave.

 

[milost]

I will however, agree with milost about seeing a movie after TDK where Gordon is under incredible pressure. A hunt is on for the Batman's head. This is why i think Nygma could have worked if he was a suave, private investigator. Gordon has to co-exist with the guy he can't stand, and tip off batman when he gets the chance.

Riddler could have been good . . . or you could have this mercenary/bounty hunter character called Bane who boasts that he could give Gotham what they wanted (Batman's head, justice to Harvey Dent) and points out that their beloved Commissioner isn't even trying to catch him. Then give him this "twist" plan where he's not even interested in the desires of the city, but instead wishes to cause a revolt and a revolution of his own . . .

 

[shauner111]

Hmm. That could have been cool. Bane + Catwoman. No Talia, no Ras cameo, no kangaroo courts. No Blake (at least not like he is). Selina and Bruce end on good terms but Batman lets her protect the east end. Bane is a bounty hunter/mercenary like you said. Becomes more obsessed. Trilogy ends with a nod to Grayson or something and a new director takes over for his own trilogy + a new cast, where he does the Dick/Robin arc and has Batman in his mid-30s to 40.

I think Ledger's death set something off in Nolan. Where he didnt want to repeat the Joker or do a regular sequel. He wanted to end the series in his own way. Maybe if Heath lived, he would have a small role too and Nolan would just do the "early years trilogy" of Batman.

 

[shauner111]

Im thinking that Nolan was always going to use Bane though. Goyer brought the idea to him during the premieres for TDK. Ledger was dead sure, but i believe Nolan when he says he wanted an opposite villain to Joker, a physical one.

Now you KNOW that i love TDKR but if Heath was alive and you told me that he could keep coming back for small cameos for years, no matter the director....and we could see Hardy's Bane + Heath + Anne's Catwoman in the 3rd movie. I'd say OK give me that third movie where Bane isn't tied to the league of shadows and acts as a bounty hunter who wants to break the bat. Id bring in Essen and Bullock too. Forget Ramirez and Reese. I dont care about them that much.

 

[BatLobster]

I like those ideas, though I'm still not sure how you explain a city wide revolution happening without the federal government intervening. You'd still need some sort of bomb/plot device that keeps the rest of the world at bay.

But Riddler and Bane in the same story could've been sick. I'd still prefer Bane to be connected to the LoS though.

 

[Team Andino]

I always liked the idea of Blake doing Detective work interviewing the snipers from the rooftop who overheard Gordon on the phone talking to his kidnapped wife then Dent. Plus Blake finding Ramierez who has likely skipped out of town shortly if not immediately after TDK to learn more about what happen with Dent plus why she set Barbra and the kids up. Thus showing him to be a competent detective.

 

[shauner111]

I like those ideas, though I'm still not sure how you explain a city wide revolution happening without the federal government intervening. You'd still need some sort of bomb/plot device that keeps the rest of the world at bay.

But Riddler and Bane in the same story could've been sick. I'd still prefer Bane to be connected to the LoS though.

I think if it wasn't the final conclusion to the story, we wouldn't get the bomb plot, the No Man's Land +Tale Of Two Cities + the influence from the historical epic/war genre. You know, the David Lean meets Fritz Lang stuff. I think it would have been the size of TDK. The prison origin would happen but Bane would have escaped himself. It would have been more of a detective thriller.

Bane + Catwoman + Blake without being the successor (maybe he's the better version of Bullock) + Essen would have been the new additions. Joker in a couple of scenes in Arkham (think Hannibal Lecter).

I always liked the idea of Blake doing Detective work interviewing the snipers from the rooftop who overheard Gordon on the phone talking to his kidnapped wife then Dent. Plus Blake finding Ramierez who has likely skipped out of town shortly if not immediately after TDK to learn more about what happen with Dent plus why she set Barbra and the kids up. Thus showing him to be a competent detective.

That could have been cool.

 

[BatLobster]

I think if it wasn't the final conclusion to the story, we wouldn't get the bomb plot, the No Man's Land +Tale Of Two Cities + the influence from the historical epic/war genre. You know, the David Lean meets Fritz Lang stuff. I think it would have been the size of TDK. The prison origin would happen but Bane would have escaped himself. It would have been more of a detective thriller.

Ah, well if it wasn't the conclusion that'd be another story. Milost's pitch mentioned Bane wanting to start his own revolution, but you couldn't just tease at that and then not deliver on it.

I think the only way that movie could really work is it would have to become Joker's movie again by the third act. Whether it's an ending or not, you can't follow TDK with another detective thriller without raising the stakes. And you'd raising the stakes with The Riddler, who would also be playing mind games with the city and Batman, so you'd have to be careful as to not let Riddler overshadow Joker. So basically it would have to be another Joker movie at its core, IMO, with Bane and Riddler ultimately playing second and third fiddle.

 

[milost]

Hmm. That could have been cool. Bane + Catwoman. No Talia, no Ras cameo, no kangaroo courts. No Blake (at least not like he is). Selina and Bruce end on good terms but Batman lets her protect the east end. Bane is a bounty hunter/mercenary like you said. Becomes more obsessed. Trilogy ends with a nod to Grayson or something and a new director takes over for his own trilogy + a new cast, where he does the Dick/Robin arc and has Batman in his mid-30s to 40.

Yeah, good idea, especially about the territories.

I like those ideas, though I'm still not sure how you explain a city wide revolution happening without the federal government intervening. You'd still need some sort of bomb/plot device that keeps the rest of the world at bay.

You could still have him and his fellow mercs plotting in the sewer. You could still have Pavel and even a bomb.

Imagine if the twist (if there has to be one) was that the bomb was a ruse all along. It's never going to detonate and Bane isn't interested in complete destruction. That Bane never planned on blowing up the city and instead, used it as a symbol of fear for his revolution? Look at the actual story in TDKR, people still lived in fear with it. The only difference is Bane would never actually use it and maybe even cares for the cities citizens in an ironic sort of way. Maybe instead of a bomb, perhaps false flags all across the city (since he'd be a mercenary with a military background too)? So many possibilities.

 

[smallville fan]

I felt Two-Face was underused in The Dark Knight.

 

[shauner111]

It sounds like a great concept if Nolan was fine with handing over the franchise. Which i think would have happened if Ledger didnt die. A part of Nolan returning im sure, was to not let down Bale, who had one more movie in his contract and didnt want to do this without Chris. Maybe Heath wouldnt want to do this without him either, but i feel like Nolan would have encouraged him to keep his iconic Joker going. Just like he thought it was cool if Anne kept Selina going with a spin-off. Catwoman could have had an origin. Joker not so much, so keeping it going would be through more Batman movies.

We wouldnt have seen TDK returns style but maybe Prey would have been used as an influence. Replace Hugo Strange with Bane.

Milost's idea of the bomb being a phony, is cool too.

But at the end of the day, giving the franchise off to a new director is risky. Risky enough to tarnish the Bale movies. WB would do the Batman vs Superman/Justice League stuff. More than 1 actor would play the same Bruce Wayne. Same with Alfred and Gordon. Who knows how they would handle Robin eventually, or who would agree to direct. When a franchise goes on long enough, it gets run into the ground. It's a guarantee. Here, it wouldn't just be 3 Nolan movies about the batman. It would continue for several films. That's why im grateful that Nolan became stubborn enough to end his series single-handedly.

 

[Walt Bickle]

yeah a film continuing after TDK continuing the story arc with riddler and bane would have been class. you could have even had Grayson. batman could be in the shadows establishing robin as a hero, they could even retread the 'why do we fall? to pick ourselves up' thread and make the series go full circle.. the son has become a father... could have had bane as new leader of the league and ACTUALLY attempt to finish ra's goal. They could be paying for riddlers chemotherapy or something to get him to toy with bats... even maybe have cole reese as a red herring to the riddler that **** would be cool.
one thing I hated bout the tdkr is that they established catwoman at the end of batmans career.. really bugged me.

 

[Walt Bickle]

There's also a big difference between people throwing on makeshift gear, using automatic weapons recklessly with intent to kill, making a mess of things, endangering themselves and others and trying to do Batman's job for him, and Batman himself appointing a successor whose moral compass he trusts and giving him some of the tools of the trade. Sure, you can point out that he didn't know Blake that well, but he knew that he was a good cop with great instincts, and one of the main heroes of Bane's siege. I'm sure he read up on his file too (we know from both TDK and TDKR that he can access police files on the Bat-computer). Most importantly though, he saw himself in Blake and this is always the classic, fundamental reason for Bruce to take in a Robin in the comics. Is it a bit cheesy? Maybe. But I like the idea that "Batman" isn't just something anyone can dress up and do. It ends up being this moniker (like the title of "Ra's al Ghul" probably is in these films) that has to be bequeathed upon the one who is deemed worthy by the current owner of the cowl. Now that's a way to establish longevity, from generation to generation.

Oh, and in case Travesty reads this...eh ohs, faces and stuff.

they had no intent to kill, they didn't kill, they were cops...If they killed atleast one person they would be in jail. they had the same training as blake. Bruce didn't know blake was one of the main heroes of banes siege as bruce was not present for any of the main plot of film. he visited bruce, and gave him a ride... people get confused that our perception of blake to bruce. we see him as a hero. to bruces perception he is a stranger that he had two conservations with

 

[BatLobster]

they had no intent to kill, they didn't kill, they were cops...If they killed atleast one person they would be in jail. they had the same training as blake. Bruce didn't know blake was one of the main heroes of banes siege as bruce was not present for any of the main plot of film. he visited bruce, and gave him a ride... people get confused that our perception of blake to bruce. we see him as a hero. to bruces perception he is a stranger that he had two conservations with

Ex-cops if we're to believe the virals (which is where the cop thing originated, it's not anywhere in the movie). And if they didn't have intent to kill why the heck where they firing at The Chechen's gang? They only reason they didn't kill anybody was because they were horrible shots. If they can't hit anything, they're just as liable to accidentally kill someone, so it almost doesn't even matter what their intentions were. They were stupid, misguided and way too eager to be vigilantes.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Brian_Douglas

As for Blake...of course Bruce knew. A lot happens off screen, a few weeks go by, he gets back to Gotham and gets his affairs in order before he makes his presence known. You think he didn't get a handle on what the situation was? Obviously he was aware that Blake was active and not trapped under ground, that's why he in advance, puts him in his will, and then finds him to give him the job of leading people over the bridge, rather than on the front lines (slyly protecting him in the process). There's even a line in the script that wasn't in the movie where he implies to Blake that he kept tabs on him via a tracking bug. I'm not confusing anything, I'm just making common sense assumptions in a movie where a lot of time elapses and you have to read between the lines a bit (which is fine...some movies do that).